West of Scotland Senior League?

Harry West

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Just re-opening this thread.
There's thought to be a Pyramid Working Group meeting on Wednesday 11th December so we'll see what, if anything, emerges after that.
 

Harry West

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Just experimenting with "Cut and Paste" to try to bring over the old posts on this topic:



Harry West
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West of Scotland Football League?
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The first hints that something is moving on this or something similar - perhaps in some way SJFA??

Perhaps more next week, apparently.

The Lowland League has just had its' AGM. Maybe the League knows something?

Sorry nothing more concrete.





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Re: [Harry West] West of Scotland Football League? [In reply to]​
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The west league should be a piece of cake compared to the reorganisation in the East.

Smile






Tykeoldboy
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Re: [PaulC] West of Scotland Football League? [In reply to]​
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If there is a possibility that a WoS league could be up and running for 2018/19 is also possible that some of the new EoS applicates could slide over to a WoS instead of joining EoS. it makes sense that EoS administer both these leagues, it would make things a little less complicated given the short timescales.



The feeling of utter devastation when you pick up your mug and realise you already finished your tea.
 

Harry West

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…….... so this is do-able. It won't allow more than 20 images to be copied at a time though.
I won't bring over the rest of this topic but maybe other topics can have the best bits copied over manually if anyone is sufficiently bothered?
 

Crankie2

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Pyramid Campaign have repeatedly asked the Scottish Parliament, Sports MInister, etc, to step in
and give us proper organisation in football ... but they are not yet interested .. because the football community haven`t pressed the case. The big drawback here is that Scotland does not have a football organiser ... so Holyrood Parliament (responsibility for Sport) is the fall back .. Unless some kind of popular pressure is applied somewhere .. a real pyramid will never happen here.
 

Cyclizine

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The southern representatives from the PWG met earlier this week. Nothing much leaked out of the meeting yet though. My feeling is we'll see the WRJFA come in alongside the EoSFL and SoSFL. Not sure how LFL playoff would work, but given no licenced clubs likely to win the West Premier, not an issue for next season.
 

Cyclizine

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Pyramid Campaign have repeatedly asked the Scottish Parliament, Sports MInister, etc, to step in
and give us proper organisation in football ... but they are not yet interested .. because the football community haven`t pressed the case. The big drawback here is that Scotland does not have a football organiser ... so Holyrood Parliament (responsibility for Sport) is the fall back .. Unless some kind of popular pressure is applied somewhere .. a real pyramid will never happen here.
Pete, the Scottish government has nothing to do with the organisation of football in the country. That's the responsibility of the SFA. You know this. What case should the "football community" be pressing. Stop pretending you're leading a grassroots body of militant Scottish pyramidistas when it's just yourself and a laptop in your apartment in the Algarve.
 

Harry West

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Burnie_man (from P&B forum)

OK, the four "suggestions" are;

1. WRJFA in for next season, ERJFA remain out of Pyramid.

2. WRJFA in for next season, ERJFA join at tier 7 and feed into EoS Premier.

3. Same proposal as a year ago, West and East in at tier 6 next season.

4. LL splits into West and East of 12-16 clubs each for 2021-22, WRJFA and SoS feed into West, ERJFA and EoS feed into East.


None of these are considered firm SFA proposals. NRJFA remain out of Pyramid. Leagues to discuss with members and feedback at PWG meeting end of January.

Views also sought about removing HL/LL boundary.

Where did you go?

prorege

There are those who still pronounce that there is some difference between Senior and Junior football. I’ve got to say that there isn’t. This was just like any other Dundonald v Broxburn game I’ve been at down the years – no better, no worse, no different. The difference is that both these clubs now have full SFA membership and will play in the Scottish Cup every year as long as they keep it up to date. They benefit from a cash hand out from the SFA each season that exceeds what they would have got for winning the Scottish Junior Cup in the unlikely event that they had done so. No wonder that the vast majority of the remaining Junior clubs in Fife and the Lothians are rumoured to be making the switch to the East of Scotland League next season – not that they will initially be licensed but they will be allowed to embark upon the process should they wish to.
 

Harry West

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There are some posts on Pie & Bovril which suggest that 16 un-named east region Junior clubs have made applications to join the East of Scotland League for next season.

If true, and if they are accepted, this would reduce the East Juniors from 38 clubs to 22.

Presumably (don't know) the rumoured applicants would be from the area covered by this league which lies within current Lowland League territory i.e. to the south of the Highland/Lowland leagues boundary. This is an east - west latitude line which passes through the mid point of the Tay Bridge.

Six Lowland League territory clubs would not (yet?) have made application to the East of Scotland League.

Looks like a de-facto merger by the southern East Region Junior clubs with the East of Scotland League may be on the cards?

This could make the potential en-masse move of the West Region Juniors to the Pyramid more or less certain in time for 2020/21. Famous last words!
 

Swampy

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Looks like a de-facto merger by the southern East Region Junior clubs with the East of Scotland League may be on the cards?
Which would, at this point, be the sensible thing to do, and would give the West Juniors a decent case for getting in at step 6.

The HL/LL boundary is going to be problematic no matter what happens, incidentally. Just look at how 'northern' football in England is basically anywhere above Watford Gap - and sometimes a little bit below. I do think the current "north of the Tay" system is very limited but ultimately someone is going to lose out, whether it's an Angus club traipsing up to Brora or Nairn every other week or a Fife team heading to the Borders. Scotland's demography just doesn't lend itself to clean splits because of the Central Belt population center.
 

GNU_Linux

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Some updates on recent going on's all things pyramid:

North Juniors who previously said they weren't interested in the pyramid held a meeting with the Highland League. Things up north haven't been a part of the PWG stale mate that's been going on since last September (thats purely an LL territory matter).

SFA have canvased the LL, EOS, SOS & West juniors for feedback on various proposals (4 in total) on how to proceed with the pyramid. West juniors at their quarterly meeting voted for option z which would see the LL split into east & west for 21/22 with the west & east junior leagues entering at tier 6 as feeders. Meeting was by accounts from some there a bit of a mess & somewhat overshadowed by a west blazer dropping an n bomb in referring to the EOS (said blazer has sinced stepped down). West juniors seem to be going down a dead end road as the other PWG members are not going to support splitting the LL & also the west juniors are going down the 'solidarity route' with the east juniors who'se wholesale entry to the pyramid has already been rejected. Not that the east juniors can enter anyway given some are north of the HL/LL line. At the upcoming PWG on the 29th of this month the west juniors option z preference will be rejected & rumour is that to break the stalemate the LL, EOS & SOS will propose forming a new senior WOSL at tier 6.
 

prorege

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That's a reasonable summary of the current speculation on Pie and Bovril.
 

Tykeoldboy

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Wasn;t a new teir 6 WoSL the intended next step anyway? Providing enough clubs were interested,
 

Crankie2

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I think what has been written here some considerable period of time sums up the failure of SFA systems ... remember we started the `pyramid campaign` in 1993 and got almost everybody interested in it... and the consequences of this failure are ... poor competitive standards .. poor player production standards .. poor economic standards .. poor uefa/fifa ranking and earnings.

So, there is a clear mandate for the Scottish Parliament `responsible for sport` to step in an organise things properly ... not quite as a tiny band of SFA full-members would want it (to prevent competition). Most governments make pronouncements or laws on football ... this is no different and does not infringe any FIFA statutes ... because it doesn`t interfere in SFA `business`. Pretty obviously, Wick Academy should not be in a `Highland league` encompassing almost 50% of scotland, with 50% of access rights to SPFL. They should be in a north-West division with Thurso, Invergordon, etc, etc ... all we need is Holyrood to take the case on.

Clearly, there is no agreement between the various leagues who run domestic football in Scotland ... SFA doesn`t run it. Cyclizine says SFA `is responsible` .. but only because Holyrood think they should be (if doing the job ..which they don`t). We believe that when Scottish Parliament realises
that SFA does a very poor job and doesnt represent more than a tiny handful of clubs, they will come round to the concept of appointing a National League organiser ... and accept that they have to legislate for decent club standards throughout the country. The Sports Minister in England makes complainst the FA almost weekly ... where is our shrinking violet ?

There should be no place for SPFL and Highland/Lowland in any new (properly organised) Scottish
football system ... that would be a National League... of all clubs. None of what you have been discussing or envisaging in any way addresses the exceptionally poor CLUB standards offered to
the population of Scotland, particularly its children, who have little chance of a top place in the game compared to almost every other country in Europe. Government legislation .. and National League .. are the only ways to address it .. as well as hooliganism, racism and many other faults.
SFA has ruined our game ... we have to start again from scratch .. heads in sand are no good.

HQ of Scottish Pyramid News is Kilmarnock ... We actually cover the game and don`t pretend that
`SFA dictatorship` is either acceptable, or good for anyone .. only complete fools do ..
 
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Swampy

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Saying that the lack of a pyramid has led directly to poor UEFA rankings is really reaching. The lower end of the game, as much as we love it, has virtually nothing to do with the elite side.
 

GNU_Linux

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OK from what I understand..............
LL proposed WoSFL as expected. EoS backed it. LL opposed "option Z"

TJ opposed WoSFL as expected saying none of his members were interested in moving to a senior league.

TJ opposed WRJFA entering themselves as it was “all-in or none in” at tier 6.

LL opposed SJFA entering en-masse.
Petrie closed meeting by saying no point in further PWG meetings as going round in circles.
Stalemate. No further PWG arranged at his point.

So those clubs in the west who are very interested but have kept their heads down so far, you’re going to have to start making a noise if that is what you want. I suspect the LL/EoS will still help get a league off the ground for next season and run it if it is shown that there is a demand and TJ is talking pish. The only other options are for the WRJFA to go their own way, or clubs join the SoS/EoS.

The SJFA aren’t going to take you into the Pyramid next season, or perhaps ever.
As far I'm concerned the blame for zero progress on the western front lies soley with TJ (Tom Johnston). Hopefully a new WOSL can spring up spearheaded by the LL/EOS & clubs who want pyramid access away from an organization that's failed in securing pyramid access.
 

prorege

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The Pyramid Working Group (South Group) meeting on Wednesday ended in stalemate.

The Scottish Junior FA insisted on joint entry for East and West Juniors at tier 5/6.

The Lowland League and East of Scotland League opposed this on the basis that there was already an East League at tier 6. They did not object to the West Juniors entering at tier 6.

Due to the impasse there will are no more meetings of the PWG scheduled.

Some West Junior clubs are keen to gain SFA Licences and to do so means they must enter the Pyramid.

They have 3 options:

1. Convince their fellow clubs in the West Region Juniors to break away from the SJFA and enter the Pyramid en masse.

2. Apply to join an existing Senior League i.e. the South of Scotland League or East of Scotland League

3. Form a new West of Scotland Senior League

Two clubs, Kilwinning Rangers and Clydebank, have announced in the last 24 hours that they will explore "all possibilities" to pursue their plans to become Licensed clubs. More are expected to follow.

For the benefit of those who will cry that the SFA should take a lead and bang heads together - that is not their role and they have no powers to do so. They would need to approve a new West of Scotland Senior League if one was formed and there is no doubt that they would do so.

The Lowland League are still considering forming a Lowland League 2. Speculation that it could involve East and West Divisions is ill-informed.

Discussions on the boundary between the Highland and Lowland League areas is a matter for the Professional Game Board (SPFL, LL and HL). Leagues at lower levels have no input to that decision. The outcome of those discussions will have a knock-on effect on Junior clubs in the Dundee and Angus areas.

In the North there has been some movement with signs that a loose Pyramid structure could be formed including the Highland League, North Juniors and North Caledonian League. It seems unlikely that promotion would be mandatory and the size of the Highland League could be flexible to protect clubs from relegation whilst opening the possibility of promotion.
 
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Harry West

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"The Scottish Junior FA insisted on joint entry for East and West Juniors at tier 6."
No. The Scottish Junior FA insisted on the West gaining entry at Tier 5 i.e. Lowland League level. They did insist on the East region joining at Tier 6 i.e. the same level as the existing East of Scotland Senior League. Hence problems/impasse at Pyramid Working Group where the individual Juniors regions were not even present!

Late last evening these posts appeared on the P&B forum:

From Clydebank:

1580460464227.png

From Kilwinning Rangers:

1580460507756.png


There is much speculation that others may follow soon with similar decisions/statements.
 

Tykeoldboy

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It appears as though the SJFA, or at least those that represent the SJFA on the PWG have managed to talk thenselves into the beginning of the demise of the SJFA, or at the very least, another mass exodus of junior clubs.
 

Swampy

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It appears as though the SJFA, or at least those that represent the SJFA on the PWG have managed to talk thenselves into the beginning of the demise of the SJFA, or at the very least, another mass exodus of junior clubs.
This unfortunately does seem to be the case. The fecklessness with which the West in particular has acted is beyond belief. When clubs like Kilwinning are ready to jump ship, something has gone seriously wrong. I'm not sure what they were thinking with the Level 5 gambit. What cards do they think they hold here, exactly?

I'm more of a SPFL fan than a Junior fan, but I am genuinely sad that this unique and historic grade seems to be on the way out. I always thought it would survive in some form, and maybe it still will, but whatever happens it's either going to be in-name-only, or as a vastly diminished competition. I'm not sure which of these would be considered worse by fans of the grade.

The SFA and PWG haven't performed perfectly, and they made some mistakes along the way, but I do think the SJFA incumbents have to take most of the blame for this. They've tried to hold back the tide for far too long without much constructive work on their part, and now that the inevitable has happened they've been caught flat-footed.
 

goal scoring outside left

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the most common sense situation as an outsider would be to have a west of Scotland league at leval 6 on a par with the east if Scotland league promoting into lowland league. however I presume it the same as in England common sense and those running F As are not 2 things you would put in one sentence.
 

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