States of America - and FIFA

[leohoenig]

There is a piece in the Guardian today about the possibility of the efforts of some US territories to gain statehood

New stars on the American flag? Fresh hope as Puerto Rico and DC push for statehood

Five US territories float in constitutional limbo, but impetus is growing to put and end to a ‘fundamental democratic flaw’

www.theguardian.com

Of the five territories, four, Puerto Rico, American Somoa, Guam and the US Virgin Islands are FIFA members. The Northern Mariana Islands are an associate member of the AFC. The question is, could they lose FIFA membership if they become states?

 

[Hoddy1.]

Could - Yes.

Should - Yes.

Will - ?

 

[johnr]

Looking at FIFA statutes it deals with expulsion if an association is absorbed into another, that is what happenned to the good old DDR, so it appears that would need to happen.

 

[007Dale]

Aside from the footballing aspect, which should be straight forward (ie they lose FIFA membership), this is a highly complicated political issue.

The main problem is the issue it creates with the Senate and the perceived shift in the balance of power. Because the Senate, unlike the HoR, takes no account of a States population size, but takes 2 Senators per state, smaller states are effectively over-represented in the upper chamber. The fact that these territories interested in joining are perceived more ‘Democrat’ doesn’t help.

Smaller States, particularly those that have a history of swinging between both parties, tend to benefit from additional funding due to the ‘pork Barrelling’ that’s so prevalent in America, especially when the Senate is finely balanced.

 

[Nik]

I'd say they should remain as FIFA members. It's very unlikely any club sides from the islands would join the MLS or any other domestic US competitions, leaving them independent 'football nations' as they are now.

If FIFA insisted they they were treated as part of the US, where would that leave Scotland, N. Ireland and Wales?

 

[johnr]

I'd say they should remain as FIFA members. It's very unlikely any club sides from the islands would join the MLS or any other domestic US competitions, leaving them independent 'football nations' as they are now.

If FIFA insisted they they were treated as part of the US, where would that leave Scotland, N. Ireland and Wales?

The Home nations remain an exemption under FIFA rules

 

[prorege]

I'd say they should remain as FIFA members. It's very unlikely any club sides from the islands would join the MLS or any other domestic US competitions, leaving them independent 'football nations' as they are now.

If FIFA insisted they they were treated as part of the US, where would that leave Scotland, N. Ireland and Wales?

Wouldn’t England be affected then?

 

[johnr]

Wouldn’t England be affected then?

Come on please read above, when we joined FIFA special provision was made to allow separate identities, as someone in our territory, who knows for sure, invented the modern game. We will always remain separate unless FIFA politics take over

 

[paulh66]

Wouldn’t England be affected then?

We rename to UK and get Bale.
And folk from the other three home nations rally around the new team...

 

[prorege]

Come on please read above, when we joined FIFA special provision was made to allow separate identities, as someone in our territory, who knows for sure, invented the modern game. We will always remain separate unless FIFA politics take over

I know that. However your post stated that Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland would be affected by such an eventuality. It reads as if you think England would unaffected by such a situation but the other home countries would be. Why is that?

 

[paulh66]

I know that. However your post stated that Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland would be affected by such an eventuality. It reads as if you think England would unaffected by such a situation but the other home countries would be. Why is that?

Not unaffected, but far less affected, for the reasons cheekily alluded to in my previous post.

Might not please some of the more extreme Inger-Lunders but a UK team would still be English centric, with the best players and best stadia still being English. The other three nations would lose far more. Unless they declared independence, which is a whole different discussion but perhaps a sentiment that lays behind your query.

 

[paulh66]

I'd say they should remain as FIFA members. It's very unlikely any club sides from the islands would join the MLS or any other domestic US competitions, leaving them independent 'football nations' as they are now.

I don't particularly disagree with the main point but Puerto Rico has had a team in the US system until recent years. Football's hardly the best, or best funded, in PR but I wouldn't rule out any more teams from the island having a crack at the US system if did become another State of the US.

 

[Cherryhopper]

If FIFA insisted they they were treated as part of the US, where would that leave Scotland, N. Ireland and Wales?

And what about Hong Kong and Macao?

 

[johnr]

I know that. However your post stated that Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland would be affected by such an eventuality. It reads as if you think England would unaffected by such a situation but the other home countries would be. Why is that?

Wrong I did not post that, I said simply the home nations are unaffected , post 6. I can never imagine anything other than the status quo here whatever happens in the future country wise.

 

[Chrish2019uk]

Give them special circumstances like Faroe Islands has?

 

[Chris1963]

Give them special circumstances like Faroe Islands has?

The Faroe Islands were given 'special circumstances' when they entered international football in 1992 but I think Greenland's hopes of achieving similar status have since been dashed, so the loophole (if there was one) may have been closed. On the other hand, Gibraltar were allowed to join the club despite the protestations of Spain.

 

[SotonSats]

I'd say they should remain as FIFA members. It's very unlikely any club sides from the islands would join the MLS or any other domestic US competitions, leaving them independent 'football nations' as they are now.

If FIFA insisted they they were treated as part of the US, where would that leave Scotland, N. Ireland and Wales?

& Gibraltar??

 

[leohoenig]

& Gibraltar??

&Montserrat, Cayman Islands, British Virgin Islands. Anguilla, Bermuda and the Turks and Caicos Islands

 

[007Dale]

The Faroe Islands were given 'special circumstances' when they entered international football in 1992 but I think Greenland's hopes of achieving similar status have since been dashed, so the loophole (if there was one) may have been closed. On the other hand, Gibraltar were allowed to join the club despite the protestations of Spain.

The rules were changed, specifically to stop Gibraltar joining. However, the Court of Arbitration agreed with Gibraltar that as they had applied before the rules changed, they had to be accepted.

Jersey were recently told that they could not apply. Only fully independent territories are now eligible, but none of those territories that were previously admitted will be turfed out.

The only exception is the one made for Kosovo, which is not recognised as an independent state by the UN or half of the worlds countries.

As far as Europe goes, that leaves only Monaco left that could apply (assuming Vatican City never would) from existing independent states.

This changes if, for example, Belgium divides in two, Catalonia gains independence or the world started recognising Transnistria as a separate state - amongst many possible separations. But there’s nothing realistically on the horizon.

 

[knmeynell]

The Faroe Islands were given 'special circumstances' when they entered international football in 1992 but I think Greenland's hopes of achieving similar status have since been dashed, so the loophole (if there was one) may have been closed. On the other hand, Gibraltar were allowed to join the club despite the protestations of Spain.

Greenland should be allowed to join FIFA as an autonomous territory within the Danish Kingdom. Their status is not much different to the Faroe Islands - either now or when the Faroes entered international football.

Most existing overseas territories playing as countries were grandfathered in, but Greenland were victims of the attempt to prevent Gibraltar joining UEFA/FIFA. Gibraltar only got in because they'd already got their application in before the rules were changed, and after a ruling by the CAS.

The excuse for keeping Greenland out was that they didn't have any grass pitches, but I don't think that could even claim that now.