Season 2019/20 over.....

Dribble!

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Ipswich Town
Football should be thinking about the future but this virus is that serious , hard to tell when we will get back to normality and think many will see the 60 clubs who wrote in as just annoyed as they have not got the rewards their play deserved and failing to understand how serious this is.

Even if they just concentrate on football, many clubs may go bust and all they seem to be worried about is getting promotion.

No surprise that in many local papers, clubs annoyed were those near top of divisions and those saying right decision to scrap the season were near the bottom - as here in Suffolk- Stowmarket are one of those wanting league to continue whilst the manager of the club they may have replaced - Felixstowe - say it is right to scrap the season .

As with most things in football, most clubs, players and supporters have a partisan view on any subject - so hard to ever get a logical debate on any subject - that si probably why we all love sport!
 

Unicorn

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Dec 9, 2019
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255
Football should be thinking about the future but this virus is that serious , hard to tell when we will get back to normality and think many will see the 60 clubs who wrote in as just annoyed as they have not got the rewards their play deserved and failing to understand how serious this is.

Even if they just concentrate on football, many clubs may go bust and all they seem to be worried about is getting promotion.

No surprise that in many local papers, clubs annoyed were those near top of divisions and those saying right decision to scrap the season were near the bottom - as here in Suffolk- Stowmarket are one of those wanting league to continue whilst the manager of the club they may have replaced - Felixstowe - say it is right to scrap the season .

As with most things in football, most clubs, players and supporters have a partisan view on any subject - so hard to ever get a logical debate on any subject - that si probably why we all love sport!
Yes the strength and weakness of our society which goes far beyond football.
The strength is that everybody has and is entitled to have an opinion.
The weakness is that it means we have great difficulty in getting anything done in reasonable time because it is so hard to find common ground and reach any consensus.
No real answer to it.
 

Lord Lucan

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Everyone can have an opinion, but if a decision is to be made based on the opinions of all then a means of collatng the opinions needs to be in place. In this specific case the FA could ask for suggestions from all leagues at levels 3-6. They would then put 2 or 3 (but no more than 3) options out for all clubs at those levels to vote on. For example,
1. Declare the season null & void and commence new season in August (or as soon as possible after) with clubs in exactly the same leagues/divsions as now.
2. Declare the season closed. Calculate final positions on a PPG basis and instigate promotion/relegation accordingly.
3. Suspend the season, then restart it as soon as possible and play to a conclusion. Further decision on arrangements for the following season to be made once the restart date for the current season is set.

If one of the options receives an absolute majority (i.e. a greater number of votes than the other two options combined) that is what happens. If no absolute majority results, the option with the fewest votes is removed and 'second preference' votes transferred to one of the remaining optiions. The option which now has the majority of votes is implemented.

To be clear:

A. A decision does not have to be made taking into account the opinions of all clubs - that appears to be what has actually happened here.
B. The examples above are just that - examples. If the FA had wanted to go down the road suggested they may well have come up with different options. The point is, whatever the options are, for one option to 'win' it must get over 50% of the votes. If clubs which voted for the 'losing' options are unhappy then tough - that is democracy.
 

paulh66

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Tranmere, South Liverpool
Everyone can have an opinion, but if a decision is to be made based on the opinions of all then a means of collatng the opinions needs to be in place. In this specific case the FA could ask for suggestions from all leagues at levels 3-6. They would then put 2 or 3 (but no more than 3) options out for all clubs at those levels to vote on. For example,
1. Declare the season null & void and commence new season in August (or as soon as possible after) with clubs in exactly the same leagues/divsions as now.
2. Declare the season closed. Calculate final positions on a PPG basis and instigate promotion/relegation accordingly.
3. Suspend the season, then restart it as soon as possible and play to a conclusion. Further decision on arrangements for the following season to be made once the restart date for the current season is set.

If one of the options receives an absolute majority (i.e. a greater number of votes than the other two options combined) that is what happens. If no absolute majority results, the option with the fewest votes is removed and 'second preference' votes transferred to one of the remaining optiions. The option which now has the majority of votes is implemented.

To be clear:

A. A decision does not have to be made taking into account the opinions of all clubs - that appears to be what has actually happened here.
B. The examples above are just that - examples. If the FA had wanted to go down the road suggested they may well have come up with different options. The point is, whatever the options are, for one option to 'win' it must get over 50% of the votes. If clubs which voted for the 'losing' options are unhappy then tough - that is democracy.
I'm not disagreeing but, at the end of the day, a system of representation and governance is already in place to make decisions for the good of the game. Gives rise to three possibilities:

1) If it's been applied properly, game over.
2) If it hasn't been applied properly, rescind the decision and re-decide by applying it properly.
3) If it's now deemed unsuitable, change it for future (a lengthy process).

Many parallels to parliamentary democracy versus public referendum. Broadly speaking, a referendum wouldn't be called to overturn a parliamentary vote or even a general election result.
 
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Lord Lucan

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I'm not disagreeing but, at the end of the day, a system of governance is already in place to make decisions for the good of the game.
Indeed. My post was in response to the one above and was a suggestion as to how opinions could be taken into account in any future decsion making arrangements (item 3 on your list).
 

Kirby Knitters

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Now that is what should have happened with steps 3 down. Suspend, and take time to properly consult and come up with a sensible and fair outcome... The inconsistency is appalling
Appalling but not at all surprising. They have shown a total disregard towards the game in the lower levels and more importantly the people involved with it. At a time when proper leadership is wanted and needed by clubs and leagues they have been treated as some second class entity who mean nothing to them, but why is anyone surprised because they don't.
 

paulh66

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Appalling but not at all surprising. They have shown a total disregard towards the game in the lower levels and more importantly the people involved with it. At a time when proper leadership is wanted and needed by clubs and leagues they have been treated as some second class entity who mean nothing to them, but why is anyone surprised because they don't.
Yet it's the elected/appointed representatives of the lower levels of the game who advocated this decision. Rather then being held in limbo by the pro game while it deals with a completely separate of considerations a world away from non league.
Even if it doesn't end up clinching the deal, this surely counts for something.
Baffling why some still ignore this.
 
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SteveW

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No not "lower levels of the game' just the three Step 3/4 Leagues only, where many clubs even at that level say they were not consulted. If they are elected officials then hopefully they will have some questions to answer when they seek re-election. Many Step 5+ Leagues let alone clubs say they had no contact whatsoever apart from after the decision was made.

I don't know why you or anyone else has a problem with the rest of the NL pyramid aligning with the National League and the pro game. Maybe they will void their seasons too. No idea. Step 3+ doesn't have to be decided in March as to how to conclude the season. The whole system has to be joined up going forward.

To those who say it's to stop Clubs going bankrupt which seems to be a meme on Social Media..... The two issues are not connected in any way. Voiding the current season doesn't help clubs financially in any way
 

paulh66

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Nobody has a problem with step 3+ aligning with the pro game on this issue IF THAT'S WHAT STEPS 3+ WANT (*). The decision taken is that they don't want to. We await their reasoning but there is absolutely no reason, in principle, why they should.

Suggestions that that decision is unconstitutional are yet to be proven. At this stage they're just questions, concerns and opposing views - genuine ones, but all mixed in with additional layers of self interest and political posturing!

But if the decision is found to be unconstitutional, that's a game changer. And perhaps the only possible game changer.

(*) CAPS used for emphasis, not shouty!
 

SteveW

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IT'S NOT WHAT STEP 3 CLUBS WANT. It's certainly not what Steps 5-7 clubs want. My references for both are Twitter feeds that I follow very closely.

Stop clinging to this idea that the Step 3 officials wanted this solution and then this should apply to everything below that.

They made a decision in haste, the FA saw then easy way out as they have no interest in non league football. We really need a separate body to oversee our game.
 

paulh66

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I'm not clinging to anything, in fact I seem to be in a minority on here in not arguing for my own personal preferences! That's because representatives far better informed than me about the issues at stake have decided differently, going through due process (unless proven otherwise) in doing so.

All the counter arguments you're hearing about on Twitter boil down, at best, to just conjecture at this stage. If you want to read up on anything, have a look at the actual governance arrangements underpinning the decision. Do clubs, for example, even need to be directly consulted by their league reps? What powers do steps 5+ actually have in the decision-making process, rather than what they think they should have? And so on and so on.
 
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paulh66

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the FA saw then easy way out as they have no interest in non league football. We really need a separate body to oversee our game.
That's just a lazy cliche. And, from your previous post, presumably this separate body should be aligned with the professional game?
 

paulh66

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Anyone know when the FA Council meeting is? I thought it was this week for some reason but not seen it mentioned lately.
 

SteveW

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I'm not clinging to anything, in fact I seem to be in a minority on here in not arguing for my own personal preferences! That's because representatives far better informed than me about the issues at stake have decided differently, going through due process (unless proven otherwise) in doing so.

All the counter arguments you're hearing about on Twitter boil down, at best, to just conjecture at this stage. If you want to read up on anything, have a look at the actual governance arrangements underpinning the decision. Do clubs, for example, even need to be directly consulted by their league reps? What powers do steps 5+ actually have in the decision-making process, rather than what they think they should have? And so on and so on.
I have no personal preferences about the season ending. Don't you read what I post? No probably not, You just see what you want, something you accuse others of doing.

I will bow out of this discussion now and leave you to it. It really isn't worth the effort. I'm wondering if the whole forum is really worth the effort I put into it at this stage, I have more important stuff to deal with as I am sure most of us do.
 

paulh66

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Tranmere, South Liverpool
I have no personal preferences about the season ending. Don't you read what I post? No probably not, You just see what you want, something you accuse others of doing.

I will bow out of this discussion now and leave you to it. It really isn't worth the effort. I'm wondering if the whole forum is really worth the effort I put into it at this stage, I have more important stuff to deal with as I am sure most of us do.
My understanding is you have no preference on voiding or PPG in the event of the season not being completed, but don't want the season to be ended now. You've said it multiple times. But if that's not your personal view then yes, I'm sorry I missed that.
Anyway, a good debate while it lasted!
Though I find this particular post, particularly the personal comments, a tad unnecessary.
We go again.. (y)
 
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Unicorn

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My understanding is you have no preference on voiding or PPG in the event of the season not being completed, but don't want the season to be ended now. You've said it multiple times. But if that's not your personal view then yes, I'm sorry I missed that.
Anyway, a good debate while it lasted!
Though I find this particular post, particularly the personal comments, a tad unnecessary.
We go again.. (y)
I believe that there is a group that is elected to represent step 5/6.
Where they consulted.
Is there a requirement for them to be consulted.
There really should be... but is there.
Will the league council sign off on the basis that correct procedure has been followed. If indeed it has.
Or will they consider that this decision has been sufficiently challenged by individual clubs and leagues to warranty a fresh look at it.
Its all down to the league council.
Anything thats said on forums is simply that.
No point in people falling out over it. We will not make the decision.
 
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