Project Non League 19/21 - Projections 21/22

Gray

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Enfield Town
[QUOTE="SGW, post: 89038, member: 1

Obviously that’s overly simplistic and the leagues do need to be where the clubs are but that, in turn, prompts another issue: why is it that the SE has more clubs at this level per head of population than they “should”? Is it the case that the SE does just have more clubs of the level because it is more urbanised and also more affluent? Or is it because the area is under-represented at the higher league levels and this is a balancing out? Or does the SE have clubs at step5/6 which would be lower down the pecking order in other parts of the country?

And I suppose the final issue is this: why aren’t the FA active.y addressing this or alternatively demonstrating that it is a non issue? I know you know this already, Brightside, but other leagues are being messed about and it could well be that is being caused by this weighting towards the SE, so it isn’t purely an academic issue and seems to be another example of the FA’s (conscious? Unconscious?) inability to play fair across the board.
[/QUOTE]
Dont know why affluence should have any impact, isnt it because rugby league is virtually non existant in the south east in comparison with large parts of the north of england.
 

Kingsmere

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Can someone please ban the discussion of England's population on here.

Cornwall has an entire division of 20 Step 6 compliant clubs and a fair few below it. It is the 40th most populous ceremonial county in England (out of 48).

Kent alone (without the London Boroughs the SCEL covers) is the 6th most populous county and can't fill a step 6 division.

Likewise West Yorkshire is the 4th most populous county in England and also cannot fill a Step 6 division.

Staffordshire is the 17th most populous county, yet has no abundance of clubs at ANY step in non league, and one of the fewest number of ANY clubs below Step 6 in the entire country with just one three-division league (with over half being reserve sides) below Step 6 (and a couple of clubs in the MRA).

Population is irrelevant - there are a lot of other things at play here! For West Yorkshire - its rugby, for Kent - its because they have a lot of clubs above Step 6 and regardless of that they simply have less clubs per population than areas like Cornwall and Dorset...
 

Brightside

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Cornwall doesn't deserve a Step 6 division (or half of one) when looked at in isolation but because there are very few teams above the knock on effect is there are enough clubs to fill the SWP West.

Conversely Kent has a number of clubs @ Steps 4 & 5 which has the knock on effect of not being able to fill the Step 6 division.

Once the SCEFL starts relegating teams into SCEFL1 at higher numbers than it receives in promotions from SCEFL1 the Step 5 & 6 leagues will be more easily filled from Kent & all of South London.

I've said previously that there are due to be approximately 81 teams in the SCL & SCEFL Step 6 areas, it just needs some of the Combined Counties South clubs to start moving across.

See below. 4 good leagues can be created out of those teams before any Step 7 promotions.

Part of the reason there is not enough Step 6 clubs is because there are too many @ Step 5, having 3 Step 6 promotions for the SCEFL1 has exasperated the situation but this is mainly due to the Step 6 league being relatively new.

Kent, Sussex, East Surrey & South London can support 2 Step 5/6 leagues but it needs a lot of the teams in the new Combined Counties South to move across over the next few years.

From the projections, there are 81 teams in this area, the problem is there are 49 @ Step 5 and 32 @ Step 6

SCFLP - 20
SCEFL - 20
SCFK1 -16
SCEFLP - 16

CCS - 9
AFC Croydon Athletic
Balham
Banstead Athletic
Beckenham Town
Colliers Wood United
Horley Town
Lingfield
Raynes Park Vale
Redhill
 

Kingsmere

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The Hellenic League struggles for clubs in it's footprint, but part of it's core area Oxfordshire has 14 divisions at step 8 and below if you include North Berks plus a few clubs in the Aylesbury and Thames Valley. While Gloucestershire has thriving junior leagues and far more divisions.

Other areas that have an abundance of step 5 / 6 clubs and step 7 clubs that could step up don't seem to have the junior divisions. Nearby Worcestershire springs to mind just a handful of junior clubs and no league as such.
 

Kirby Knitters

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I believe SCR have plans for building a new ground of their own, as part of a deal with a local school.
[QUOTE="Chris1963, post: 89084, member: 870"
NEW GROUND PETITION
Sutton Common Rovers FC are currently in talks with Glenthorne High School & Sutton Council regarding installing a brand new joint ventue 3G football pitch on the Daisy field located directly behind the school (off the A217) near Sutton Common Road.

The new facility will be available for the expanding Glenthorne School to use for Sport during weekday hours and Sutton Common Rovers FC as a home ground on Saturdays and midweek for training.

Outside of the usage hours of both the school and the football club it will be available for community use hire with Sutton Borough Clubs receiving preferential discounts on bookings.

The new facility would come at no cost to the council or Sutton Borough taxpayers and will be funded by available funding channels from both the School and the football club.

The new facility will be fenced off from the rest of the Daisy Field to protect it from vandalism and misuse and will have floodlights and changing facilities/clubhouse installed.

There will still be plenty of the Daisy field available for dog walkers and general users of the park but in the winter months when the grass areas become waterlogged and unusable the new 3G pitch will still be able to continue providing sporting facilities to all.

What we need is support from local Sutton Council Residents to make the above mentioned facility a reality.

So if you are living in the Sutton Borough (either Sutton, Cheam, Carshalton or Wallington) could you leave a comment on this page with your approval or disapproval of the above project please.

If you disapprove of the above proposed facility could you also leave some feedback as to why not so we can understand anyone's concerns.

Thank you,

Justin Salmon
Sutton
 

Sarumio Whites

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Cornwall doesn't deserve a Step 6 division (or half of one) when looked at in isolation but because there are very few teams above the knock on effect is there are enough clubs to fill the SWP West..
My only fundamental point was - even if you look at Steps 1-6 in general (and not just Step 6 on its own) - you look at Cornwall and it has 20 clubs plus Truro at Steps 1-6.

That's one Step 5/6 club per 27,000 people in Cornwall.

Compare that to....

Kent (ALONE - without the South London Boroughs) would need to have 68 Steps 1-6 clubs to match this
Staffordshire would need to have 42 (it has just 11)
West Yorkshire would need have 85 clubs at Steps 1-6.

North Yorkshire would need 42 - it has 9...

Football club abundance and population don't marry up, aren't interlinked and have no bearing on one another whatsoever. OK Greater Manchester has more clubs than Herefordshire because of population. That's not a reason to map out Step 5 and 6 divisions based on population, like some appear to advocate....

There's more Steps 1-6 clubs in Biggleswade than there is in the boroughs Middlesbrough, Stockton-on-Tees and Redcar & Ceveland combined :)
 
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Brightside

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That's not a reason to map out Step 5 and 6 divisions based on population, like some appear to advocate....
I think the best (not fullproof) way is by total numbers of clubs but even then clubs are not split evenly throughout the Levels.
Applying some (often flawed) subjectiveness to debate whether this is because of bias or not is tougher.

I think the new Step 6 divisions locations aren't in too bad a position but there is an imbalance @ steps 3 to 5 that is keeping a number of Step 6 ready teams out of the pyramid (particularly in the East Midlands)

Depending on how the FA treat Step 6 going forward (Fixed boundaries as per 2021/2022) or lots of lateral transfers after promoting the best Step 7 teams for full pooling will decide how the pyramid @ steps 3 to 5 evolves.

Step 2 isn't imbalanced on the other hand (but Step 3 promotions could imbalance it)
 
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Brightside

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Is there a reason why the maps have teams like Leek Town as promoted to step 3?
I think you're looking at the old maps on page 1. I can't edit the first post. The new maps are posted later.

I'm not sure the best way to resolve this as I can see it has confused some people.

I had thought about starting a new thread (but this is already being discussed on two threads)
 

markust

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I think you're looking at the old maps on page 1. I can't edit the first post. The new maps are posted later.

I'm not sure the best way to resolve this as I can see it has confused some people.

I had thought about starting a new thread (but this is already being discussed on two threads)

Yes I did. Thanks!

And thanks for doing the maps too, always good to get the away days planned in :)
 

Ellisref

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Wrexham and a general look out for some of the friendly teams I've been observing at around the country.
I think the best (not fullproof) way is by total numbers of clubs but even then clubs are not split evenly throughout the Levels.
Applying some (often flawed) subjectiveness to debate whether this is because of bias or not is tougher.

I think the new Step 6 divisions locations aren't in too bad a position but there is an imbalance @ steps 3 to 6 that is keeping a number of Step 6 ready teams out of the pyramid (particularly in the East Midlands)

Depending on how the FA treat Step 6 going forward (Fixed boundaries as per 2021/2022) or lots of lateral transfers after promoting the best Step 7 teams for full pooling will decide how the pyramid @ steps 3 to 5 evolves.

Step 2 isn't imbalanced on the other hand (but Step 3 promotions could imbalance it)
I'm still getting to grips with the local scene so I'd be interested to know who you think are the Step 6 ready teams in the East Midlands. I seem to recall Linby CW being suggested but I don't recall any lights?
 

Andy Mac

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Shepshed Dynamo
Because AndyMac seemed to have a been in his bonnet over a Gresley Fan higher up in the thread alluding to the club he currently supports being a former Southern League member.
Not a bee in my bonnet, I was just correcting his inaccuracy. And I see that you have subsequently agreed with me that he was factually wrong.
 

Roader

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I'm still getting to grips with the local scene so I'd be interested to know who you think are the Step 6 ready teams in the East Midlands. I seem to recall Linby CW being suggested but I don't recall any lights?
You only have to look at Brightside's spreadsheet that details the clubs in step 7 that have applied for promotion to step 7 but have no chance of being accepted, all with floodlights. In simplistic terms, this could be resolved by moving the footprints. In reality, it isn't rocket science but as normal the FA isn't too wealthy in anyone approaching rocket scientist status. It's the sad mirror of life in England. Too much power in the south with far too many people down there not aware that life exists beyond Watford.
 

Brightside

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I had thought about starting a new thread (but this is already being discussed on two threads)
I have done that for ease of referencing as it keeps coming up as an issue

Maps here - https://www.nonleaguematters.co.uk/forums/index.php?threads/projections-2021-2022.4341/


I'm still getting to grips with the local scene so I'd be interested to know who you think are the Step 6 ready teams in the East Midlands. I seem to recall Linby CW being suggested but I don't recall any lights?

I am sure that the Applicants tab is out of date but there are 9 teams in the Midland League Footprint, 3 teams in the United Counties League footprint + Rugby Borough that had already passed.

In terms of the applications overall, I did a rough calculation of the 125 teams


Per League's Region
NE 11
NW 7
Yorks 5
EM 24
WM 17
E 16
SW 21
SE 24
 

Roader

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Its a grey area

Officially, technically, legally, factually yes not the same club.

Any random member of the pubic will view Gresley Rovers (the club that exists today) and the Gresley Rovers of the preceding 100 years as the same club, with the same badge, same colours, same ground and same fans.

When reformations happen immediately, the soul of the original club still shining and its heart still beating, through the supporters and fans, and there's no real lengthy break in football (other than a few months maybe) then no one cares what LTD Company that is the backbone of the legal entity is getting up to behind the scenes.

Farnborough and Farnborough Town - same club
Farsley Celtic and Farsley (now Celtic again) - same club
Salisbury and Salisbury City - same club
Kings Lynn Town and Kings Lynn - same club
Nuneaton Borough, Ilkeston Town, Hereford, Chester, Halifax, Darlo, Hornchurch, Telford, same club, same club, same club!

Murkier waters with clubs like Scarborough as they didn't retain the stadium, changed the name completely by adding Athletic, changed their badge and seem to be quite removed from Scarborough FC as a result of those actions, at least on the outside looking in.
Hinckley United and Leicester Road too.
 

Ellisref

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Wrexham and a general look out for some of the friendly teams I've been observing at around the country.
I have done that for ease of referencing as it keeps coming up as an issue

Maps here - https://www.nonleaguematters.co.uk/forums/index.php?threads/projections-2021-2022.4341/




I am sure that the Applicants tab is out of date but there are 9 teams in the Midland League Footprint, 3 teams in the United Counties League footprint + Rugby Borough that had already passed.

In terms of the applications overall, I did a rough calculation of the 125 teams


Per League's Region
NE 11
NW 7
Yorks 5
EM 24
WM 17
E 16
SW 21
SE 24
Apologies if I'm being thick.

Can you point me towards a spreadsheet/list of the 24 East Midlands sides?

9 teams in the ML footprint suggests the blockage is more towards the West rather than East Midlands?
 

Roader

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Apologies if I'm being thick.

Can you point me towards a spreadsheet/list of the 24 East Midlands sides?

9 teams in the ML footprint suggests the blockage is more towards the West rather than East Midlands?
If you read through the discussion, the spreadsheets are readily available on a number of Brightside's posts.
 

Ellisref

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Wrexham and a general look out for some of the friendly teams I've been observing at around the country.
If you read through the discussion, the spreadsheets are readily available on a number of Brightside's posts.
Just scrolling back now.
 

Unicorn

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You only have to look at Brightside's spreadsheet that details the clubs in step 7 that have applied for promotion to step 7 but have no chance of being accepted, all with floodlights. In simplistic terms, this could be resolved by moving the footprints. In reality, it isn't rocket science but as normal the FA isn't too wealthy in anyone approaching rocket scientist status. It's the sad mirror of life in England. Too much power in the south with far too many people down there not aware that life exists beyond Watford.
Can you actually justify that claim.
If you can all well and good.
By justify i mean show evidence that the people on the relevant FA committees are mainly southerners.
 

Brightside

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If you read through the discussion, the spreadsheets are readily available on a number of Brightside's posts.
Apologies if I'm being thick.

Can you point me towards a spreadsheet/list of the 24 East Midlands sides?

9 teams in the ML footprint suggests the blockage is more towards the West rather than East Midlands?

Go to the Applicants tab. I'm sure it is not 100% up to date but it's a compilation of all the information I have found.

The 24 teams from Leagues in the East Midlands are;

Dinnington Town
Harworth Colliery
Renishaw Rangers
Retford United
Thorne Colliery
Clay Cross Town
Gainsborough Trinity Reserves
Lincoln Moorlands Railway
Immingham Town
Rugby Borough
Thrapston Town
Moulton
Newark Town
Blidworth Welfare
Allexton & New Parks
Cottesmore Amateurs
Ellistown
Friar Lane & Epworth
Sileby Town
Grantham Town Academy
Ilkeston Academy
Sandiacre Town
Linby Colliery Welfare
Pinxton

I'm aware some of these will be outside of the region.

The West Midlands is probably blocked just as much due to the WMLP, ML1 & EML all having had only 1 promotion spot to Step 5. I probably think about the East Midlands too much because it hasn't had a Step 5 league with teams split between the NCEL, ML & UCL.
By justify i mean show evidence that the people on the relevant FA committees are mainly southerners.
I don't see it personally as a Southern or South East bias bias but then I'm from the East and clubs are treated at least fairly around here.

The main thing that needed to happen to go from a 1-2-4-7-14-20 pyramid to a 1-2-4-8-16-17 pyramid was to demerge the NWCL & NCEL. Effectively creating Step 5 leagues that mirrored the NWCS & EML @ Step 5. Remove one of the Midlands Step 6 leagues & one of the Hellenic Step 6 leagues.
That would have given a 16-18 system with only the South West to sort out.
 

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