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Unicorn

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That's fair..
I fully accept that in the current climate scrutinising the NHS is not appreciated but if we keep using the Govt as a convenient scapegoat for every issue we ( the citizens of the UK for clarity of 'we' ) are just deluding ourselves.
We keep hearing about the selfless dedication of health workers. And it's true . It's part of the culture of health care.......But that's being taken advantage off. Because staff do make do and carry on health management are slack at keeping on top of their responsibilities.
Immigrant and BAME workers are also being taken advantage off. Their fear of losing their jobs means they put up with lack of ppe poor social distancing etc and no-one ,at the coal face,is fighting their corner.
For the record I fully accept there are things the Govt could have done better/differently/or sooner but our pandemic preparedness was for an entirely different pandemic.
No one could have predicted a particularly virulent Man Made virus escaping from a Chinese laboratory.
I also think the media have played this pandemic badly...The 24hr rolling commentary interspersed with 15minute news slots has been an awful and fear generating method of reporting to the nation. Too many hours of programming to find content for.
The media have ended up politicising the crisis and inevitably looking for a fall guy to publicly pillory.
The underlying policy is to undermine a Premier and a Govt they are at ideological odds with.
What proof is there that it came from a Chinese Laboratory.
Also it appears quite a few learned types predicted a global pandemic was on the cards.
 

Steveb

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What proof is there that it came from a Chinese Laboratory.
Also it appears quite a few learned types predicted a global pandemic was on the cards.
Not just predicted but inevitable at some point. Most large organisations and employers, including the one I work for, have contingency plans to cover events that might hamper our ability to continue to operate, such as terrorism or a catastrophic IT failure. We had a pandemic plan, we put it into action, and it’s worked.

There‘s zero real evidence of this virus coming from any laboratory, in China or elsewhere. But it doesn’t matter where it came from, it seems the UK Government wasn’t as well prepared as it should have been.
 

jon b

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That's fair..
I fully accept that in the current climate scrutinising the NHS is not appreciated but if we keep using the Govt as a convenient scapegoat for every issue we ( the citizens of the UK for clarity of 'we' ) are just deluding ourselves.
We keep hearing about the selfless dedication of health workers. And it's true . It's part of the culture of health care.......But that's being taken advantage off. Because staff do make do and carry on health management are slack at keeping on top of their responsibilities.
Immigrant and BAME workers are also being taken advantage off. Their fear of losing their jobs means they put up with lack of ppe poor social distancing etc and no-one ,at the coal face,is fighting their corner.
For the record I fully accept there are things the Govt could have done better/differently/or sooner but our pandemic preparedness was for an entirely different pandemic.
No one could have predicted a particularly virulent Man Made virus escaping from a Chinese laboratory.
I also think the media have played this pandemic badly...The 24hr rolling commentary interspersed with 15minute news slots has been an awful and fear generating method of reporting to the nation. Too many hours of programming to find content for.
The media have ended up politicising the crisis and inevitably looking for a fall guy to publicly pillory.
The underlying policy is to undermine a Premier and a Govt they are at ideological odds with.
Plenty of that I'd agree with. Particularly the perils of rolling 24 hour news services desperate for breaking stories, controversy and time fillers.

However Bill Gates had been warning for some years that a Virus Pandemic was a greater danger to the world than nuclear war. Sadly, I don't think any of our political parties paid much heed. But I would have thought that Public Health England should have been bringing it to the attention of relevant Ministers. There seems to have been a very serious failure in contingency planning.

But it is possible that the eventual Public Enquiry, whilst determining where mistakes have been made, won't necessarily attach blame if they consider that they occurred in the context of individuals, at whatever level, trying to achieve best outcomes with limited resources. and imperfect information.

I'm not sure if the current virus is man made but I'd have thought it certain that a fair few states are looking at the havoc wreaked by Covid 19 and thinking that undeclared biological warfare could be a way for them to significantly hurt a superpower like the USA.

North Korea for instance.
 

The vulture

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North Korea, that's it let's blame them.

Failing that how about the old favourites Russia.

Just don't blame those responsible.
 

paulh66

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I don't think North Korea would see anything like that as in its best interests. Self preservation's the thing for them.

Speaking of the US and covid, I've been tuning in to a few of New York State Governor Andrew Cuomo's daily briefings. What a breath of fresh air that guy is - very engaging, clear of thought, clear communication, keeping it simple and positioning it all more on a human level than a political level (though that in itself is probably a canny political move). Worth a look for anyone interested in how things are going over there, as well as comparing and contrasting both style and substance with what we're served over here.
 

Yatesman

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What proof is there that it came from a Chinese Laboratory.
Also it appears quite a few learned types predicted a global pandemic was on the cards.
What proof is there it came from bat soup?

I fully accept that Chinese culinary habits are disgusting to many people and their hygiene standards appear at face value to be particularly foul but they have been practicing these habits for a long time.
The 'predicting ' of a pandemic is a red herring.
I predict the sun will implode.
One day I'll be right
 

jon b

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North Korea, that's it let's blame them.

Failing that how about the old favourites Russia.

Just don't blame those responsible.
I'm hoping that the Public Enquiry uncovers who did or didn't do whatever.

I think Johnson has problems over his inaction in February. It looks as though he was distracted by personal matters. But there are plenty of others who will be desperately trying to get their stories straight.

Jeremy Hunt has to explain why the shortcomings exposed by the 2016 Pandemic Drill weren't addressed. I suspect he'll point the finger of blame at the Treasury.

Trouble is I'm not convinced that if either of the opposition parties had been faced with the same issues they'd have been any more competent.

But there'll be plenty of finger pointing and score settling at the Public Enquiry.
 

The vulture

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I thought it was the Pangolins?

They have to face up and take responsibility, the Stills and their scientists have told us it's their fault, them and the Bats.
 

Yatesman

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Like I said.....predictions are like arseholes .....everyone's got one.

I predict an alien invasion .
I predict the sun will implode.
I predict jesus will return to save us
I predict a riot.
I predict Labour will win an election.

Ok scrub the last one....that's stretching it a bit !
 

Yatesman

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No. We'd had SARS and MERS as wake up calls and slept on.

The question is why.
We and the rest of the world it seems.
World health issues need co-ordinated world response.
Unfortunately WHO hasn't covered itself in glory and the EU , a 1st world political organisation that you would have thought could have co-ordinated a response, let itself down badly.
 

TowlawTom

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Like I said.....predictions are like arseholes .....everyone's got one.

I predict an alien invasion .
I predict the sun will implode.
I predict jesus will return to save us
I predict a riot.
I predict Labour will win an election.

Ok scrub the last one....that's stretching it a bit !
Outcome of predictions can be prevented with foresight or not.

Prevented

1. Grenfell
2. Covid 19 pandemic.
3. Bradford City fire disaster

Not

1. Jesus coming to save us
2. Elvis being found alive after crashing a UFO and landing on top of the Loch Ness monster
3. An alien invasion
 

TowlawTom

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Just love this cut and paste bog standard reply job by the Tory Totnes MP left on his Facebook page. In reference to DCs actions in breaking the Covid 19 regulations.

This obviously came from Tory central office as they were not allowed to express their own thoughts

Absolute contempt shown towards their constituents.
 

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Yatesman

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Outcome of predictions can be prevented with foresight or not.

Prevented

1. Grenfell
2. Covid 19 pandemic.
3. Bradford City fire disaster

Not

1. Jesus coming to save us
2. Elvis being found alive after crashing a UFO and landing on top of the Loch Ness monster
3. An alien invasion
You put Covid19 pandemic instead of 'pandemic' .

How can you know the next pandemic will be from a virus that hasn't been seen before?
 

jon b

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Over in the States Trump's inept handling of the Covid 19 crisis seemed to be putting his re-election in jeopardy.

But when the current rioting broke out I think he realised it gave him the chance to appear on the side of law and order and against arson and looting by people using the Floyd murder as pretext for criminal activity.

The problem for the Democrats is that, although Joe Biden stated recently that any African American voting for Trump "ain't Black", if they manage to get themselves linked in the electorate's mind with support for riots/arson/looting then Biden could hold on to the black vote at the cost of the loss of huge swathes of middle America.
 

jon b

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Whilst over in the States there are protests, riots and arson, back in Blighty we've resumed our newly adopted role of providing a little light relief to the rest of the world with a Whitehall farce.

On this occasion it's by means of showing how voting in a legislative body in the 21st century should be carried out.

It is nice to know our conga line of MPs stretching round and round inside and outside Parliament building is doing it's bit to maintain our role of recent years of the world's biggest laughing stock.
 

TowlawTom

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Starmer absolutely destroying Johnson in the commons today.

Personally like to see how he would handle a more competent opponent.
 

NMFC

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Agreed. Thought it was Sir Kier's least impressive performance. All the questions were negative, just giving Boris the ability to say 'oh, no, we didn't'. Maybe some positive suggestions from Captain Hindsight would be useful?
 
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