Politics Thread

007Dale

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Shockeroonie.

His gauleiter in Scotland, Alistair Jack, has told the people of Scotland they shall not be allowed to determine their own future while Nicola Sturgeon is First Minister or even during her lifetime.

People used to think the role of the Scottish Secretary was to represent Scotland at Westminster. Under these Tories his role is to represent Westminster in Scotland.
Of course, we known the SNP will bang the independence drum whether people in Scotland want it or not (and currently they don’t) because they don’t have to talk about the appalling record they have in Scottish Government.
 

The Don

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I’m talking specifically of right wing boneheads. You don’t have to be a right wing bonehead to be a Tory.

Try this exercise in logic.

All dogs have 4 legs
This animal has 4 legs.
Therefore this animal is..

All right wing boneheads vote UKIP/BNP/Tory
This person voted UKIP/BNP/Tory
Therefore this person is...
Very strange comment. Like I said, some political discussions seem to result in insults. I'm not sure that calling people "boneheads" adds anything useful.
If this is the level of debate, I'm off.
 

PaulC

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Of course, we known the SNP will bang the independence drum whether people in Scotland want it or not (and currently they don’t) because they don’t have to talk about the appalling record they have in Scottish Government.
Appalling record?
Imagine if Emily Thornberrry, the woman who slags off White Van Men , who calls working class voters from the North of England 'thick' and who espouses Comprehensive Education whilst sending her children to a selective school outside the constituency she lives in wins this election.

The absolute neck she's got to even stand is breathtaking .
And this was the sum total of Thornberry’s tweet.

1579032706849.jpeg
 

jon b

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Of course, we known the SNP will bang the independence drum whether people in Scotland want it or not (and currently they don’t) because they don’t have to talk about the appalling record they have in Scottish Government.
"Currently they don't"

How do we know? There is, of course, one sure way to find out. If Johnson and the Tories aren't frit.

There is an irony in Brexiters having won in a campaign to depart from one union, now have to try to deny a different set of nationalists in their campaign to leave another one.
 

SteveW

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Political discussion appears to be an excuse to insult those who disagree with another's view.
Now that is the most intelligent comment I have seen on this thread.

Everyone thinks they are right therefore by definition the 'other side' must be wrong. Nobody on here listens, they just want to justify their own views be that with quotes or statistics or graphs or comments they think are clever or whatever.

There is no middle ground on this forum discussion as the neutrals probably feel reluctant to join in, even though this is probably where most of the electorate are at and that's due to a handful of posters thinking that if they shout louder and more often than their 'opponents' they will be accepted as 'right'.

It's really depressing to read and what worries me more is that the main 'combatants' won't even understand why.
 

PaulC

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Now that is the most intelligent comment I have seen on this thread.

Everyone thinks they are right therefore by definition the 'other side' must be wrong. Nobody on here listens, they just want to justify their own views be that with quotes or statistics or graphs or comments they think are clever or whatever.

There is no middle ground on this forum discussion as the neutrals probably feel reluctant to join in, even though this is probably where most of the electorate are at and that's due to a handful of posters thinking that if they shout louder and more often than their 'opponents' they will be accepted as 'right'.

It's really depressing to read and what worries me more is that the main 'combatants' won't even understand why.
So you think statistics, graphs have no place in political discussion? Why do you value unfounded opinions so much?

There is no ‘shouting louder’. There is replying to posts that have been made. Surely the whole point of discussion is to respond to opposing views and to be able to back up opinions with evidence.

As for ‘shouting more often’ there is absolutely nothing to stop anyone posting here. If some people end up posting more than others, it’s hardly their fault. I tend to reply to those who have bothered to reply to me. Is that wrong?
 

007Dale

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"Currently they don't"

How do we know? There is, of course, one sure way to find out. If Johnson and the Tories aren't frit.

There is an irony in Brexiters having won in a campaign to depart from one union, now have to try to deny a different set of nationalists in their campaign to leave another one.
How do we know:
1. Majority of votes at the General Election went for pro-union parties
2. No opinion poll conducted since August has Leave ahead of Remain. Let alone have 50% of respondents pro-leave

It’s nothing to do with denying anyone the option to leave. It’s about respecting the result of the first referendum - not ironic, just consistent.

I Actually think BoJo would love to crush Sturgeon in an IndyRef2, which he undoubtedly would do, but he recognises that the whole UK doesn’t need more uncertainty right now.
 

Climate Change

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Now that is the most intelligent comment I have seen on this thread.

Everyone thinks they are right therefore by definition the 'other side' must be wrong. Nobody on here listens, they just want to justify their own views be that with quotes or statistics or graphs or comments they think are clever or whatever.

There is no middle ground on this forum discussion as the neutrals probably feel reluctant to join in, even though this is probably where most of the electorate are at and that's due to a handful of posters thinking that if they shout louder and more often than their 'opponents' they will be accepted as 'right'.

It's really depressing to read and what worries me more is that the main 'combatants' won't even understand why.
Steve, I think if you deleted the posts of four people on this thread - mine included - you will find it is a pretty good thread.
And yes, I do understand..............
 

SteveW

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So you think statistics, graphs have no place in political discussion? Why do you value unfounded opinions so much?

There is no ‘shouting louder’. There is replying to posts that have been made. Surely the whole point of discussion is to respond to opposing views and to be able to back up opinions with evidence.

As for ‘shouting more often’ there is absolutely nothing to stop anyone posting here. If some people end up posting more than others, it’s hardly their fault. I tend to reply to those who have bothered to reply to me. Is that wrong?
I understand that some posters have entrenched views that will never change but this thread has descended into more of an 'argument' than a 'discussion'.

I'm keen to try and avoid that to give other people a chance to join in without interrupting what seems to be at times a private conversation on the public forum
 

SteveW

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Steve, I think if you deleted the posts of four people on this thread - mine included - you will find it is a pretty good thread.
And yes, I do understand..............
Didn't I delete yours already?

I agree it's a good thread and it's a hot topic.

But it's not open season on insulting other forum members because they disagree. It wouldn't be tolerated on any other forum section so I don't think different rules should apply here

To be honest, if you have to insult another forum poster who you presumably have never met just to make your point then the majority of people reading your post will not see past that and not see the point you are making, I wish I could make more people understand that.
 
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Yatesman

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LOL!

What on earth do you think a graph and accompanying article is, if not the interpretation, organisation, contextualisation and interpretation of information?

Have you been copying out of a big book again, without quite understanding what you have been copying?
Ha ha, ^^says the Copy and Paste Kid

Anyway, good to see you trying to utilise your new learning, even if you haven't quite understood the concept.

The reason you fail is because to analyse data into facts you have to be a Truth Seeker.

That is not something you could ever be accused of, LOL!
 

PaulC

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Ha ha, ^^says the Copy and Paste Kid

Anyway, good to see you trying to utilise your new learning, even if you haven't quite understood the concept.

The reason you fail is because to analyse data into facts you have to be a Truth Seeker.

That is not something you could ever be accused of, LOL!
But the data were analysed, not by me, but by Bloomberg.
 

Yatesman

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Yet it's OK for Boris Johnson to slag off working class voters and then seek their votes.

What makes you think right-wing white van, as identified by Thornberry, has any relevance to the Labour party and vice-versa? UKIP/BNP/Tory is the natural home of right wing boneheads.
She didn't know the Person's political affiliations when she posted that tweet. She made an assumption based on prejudice, disrespect and arrogance.
It's something the Left wing boneheads in the SNP/Labour/Liberal and Remainer camps do a lot !
 

Yatesman

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Shockeroonie.

His gauleiter in Scotland, Alistair Jack, has told the people of Scotland they shall not be allowed to determine their own future while Nicola Sturgeon is First Minister or even during her lifetime.

People used to think the role of the Scottish Secretary was to represent Scotland at Westminster. Under these Tories his role is to represent Westminster in Scotland.
I thought the letter was to Nicola Sturgeon, not the 'People of Scotland'

Most 'People of Scotland' don't want another IndyRef yet. We've just had one. We want stability and we want the SNP government get on with the day job and the UK Gov't to Get Brexit Done so that we can reap the Brexit Dividend up here as well as the rUK.

Quite logically, Those that support the Union don't want another Indy Ref..............Why would they??

So, quite logically, Sturgeon isn't speaking for 'The People of Scotland' .

She is simply, unashamedly, publicly expressing her own party political position and her own Fetish of Independence.

I fully accept the narrative of plucky Scotland being denied it's right will be forced down our neckks relentlessly for the next 5 years ...... It's going to get so tedious!
 

The Don

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SteveW said, "I understand that some posters have entrenched views that will never change but this thread has descended into more of an 'argument' than a 'discussion'.

I was once told that an argument was an exchange of ignorance and a discussion was an exchange of intelligence.

I watch Parliament on the TV and some so-called debates seem to be a complete waste of time because the governing party usually "whips" the vote and no matter how many "insults", "graphs" and "statistics" are thrown across the chamber the views are "entrenched" and the government with a majority usually wins.

On this thread nobody "wins" because nobody votes. It's just a continual tit-for-tat in some cases.

I don't mind asking a question or offering my view but what I wouldn't like is a know-all, clever dick response the like of which I have witnessed on this thread. I am keen to learn others views on most matters but I don't want them forced on me because someone calls them "facts".

I offer this from Desiderata,

"Go placidly amid the noise and haste and remember what peace there maybe in silence.
As far as possible, without surrender, be on good terms with all persons.
Speak the truth clearly and quietly and listen to others, even the dull and ignorant; they too have their story.
Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexatious to the spirit." ....................

i bid you good morning.
 
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buncranaboy

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SteveW said, "I understand that some posters have entrenched views that will never change but this thread has descended into more of an 'argument' than a 'discussion'.

I was once told that an argument was an exchange of ignorance and a discussion was an exchange of intelligence.

I watch Parliament on the TV and some so-called debates seem to be a complete waste of time because the governing party usually "whips" the vote and no matter how many "insults", "graphs" and "statistics" are thrown across the chamber the views are "entrenched" and the government with a majority usually wins.

On this thread nobody "wins" because nobody votes. It's just a continual tit-for-tat in some cases.

I don't mind asking a question or offering my view but what I wouldn't like is a know-all, clever dick response the like of which I have witnessed on this thread. I am keen to learn others views on most matters but I don't want them forced on me because someone calls them "facts".

I offer this from Desiderata,

"Go placidly amid the noise and haste and remember what peace there maybe in silence.
As far as possible, without surrender, be on good terms with all persons.
Speak the truth clearly and quietly and listen to others, even the dull and ignorant; they too have their story.
Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexatious to the spirit." ....................

i bid you good morning.
And yet both protagonists seem to think they are funny with the number of posts that include LOL. Does that mean something different up there as it's been a long time since I found any of their posts either amusing or informative
 

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