Identity theft

markust

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a new, community-owned team, initially playing in Winsford.[48][49] On the day of the vote, it emerged that the owner of Northwich Victoria had been declared bankrupt and therefore failed the FA's Fit and Proper Persons test.[50] The founders chose the name 1874 Northwich, retaining links to the past while creating a distinctive name for the future;[51] in order to avoid legal issues over the new club's name,
The club was formed by the Northwich Victoria Supporters trust, as the only fans group still going at the time of the vote what else were they going to call it?

The Vics chairman was later sent down for drugs offences. https://www.northwichguardian.co.uk...iled-for-six-years-following-drug-conviction/
 

caulfield_paul

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And when the hipsters of Not Clapton get their way and start playing at the Old Spotted Dog with the real club forced to play many miles away, it will be a steal at least on a par with that inflicted on Bury FC.
If you've followed the story, you will know that the 'Dog was in a terrible condition when the previous occupants were evicted. The new leaseholders have started renovating the place, and on past experience, are likely to attract crowds of several hundred to home games. There is a strong committee there, a range of men's, women's and youth teams, security of tenure and a passionate support that could only have been dreamed of when I was programme editor at CFC in the late 80s/early 90s when there was no lease on the ground and crowds rarely broke two figures. The achievements of the current tenants in regenerating the 'Dog and increasing the support are remarkable. If that upsets some people, too bad.
 

Haywain

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There's a big hoorah between Bury fans. As Bury FC are still a club - just not placed in a league, many hardcore Bury fans accuse Bury AFC of stealing their nickname 'The Shakers', the club badge and the club history.
Bury FC fans ought to realise that having a nickname isn't much good if you haven't actually got a football team.
 

Haywain

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Witton Albion are the original splinter club, set up by part of the original Vics board and playing squad who were unhappy at some of the directors of Vics for stepping back from being a professional club (original members of the football league).
Complete nonsense - Northwich Victoria were, in 1892, one of the original members of Division 2 - 4 years after the Football League was founded.
 

Noanorak

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If you've followed the story, you will know that the 'Dog was in a terrible condition when the previous occupants were evicted. The new leaseholders have started renovating the place, and on past experience, are likely to attract crowds of several hundred to home games. There is a strong committee there, a range of men's, women's and youth teams, security of tenure and a passionate support that could only have been dreamed of when I was programme editor at CFC in the late 80s/early 90s when there was no lease on the ground and crowds rarely broke two figures. The achievements of the current tenants in regenerating the 'Dog and increasing the support are remarkable. If that upsets some people, too bad.
They certainly have a good PR team that manages to paint identity and history theft from an existing club in a 'positive' light, that's for sure. Drowning in oceans of political correctness, bunging clubs who play on a field a few quid to switch venues on the 'threat' of too many people turning up and painting themselves as moral crusaders. Not at all appropriate for the level they play at, in my view and just about the most sensitive to any form of criticism whatsoever, this environment included.
 

paulh66

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Ah, life's three certainties - death, taxes and the annual Clapton argument. Lol.

As for 1874 Northwich, I've no issue with them, or why they were created, or how they chose their name, or how they go about their business, etc. There's no confusing them and Vics either.

I suppose, though, you'd normally want a club name to capture the club's identity with little or no further explanation necessary. That's clearly not the case here! But, if that's what they want to call themselves, and are happy to have to cough up the full explanation every time they're asked, then I can't see a problem.
 

Noanorak

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Ah, life's three certainties - death, taxes and the annual Clapton argument. Lol.

As for 1874 Northwich, I've no issue with them, or why they were created, or how they chose their name, or how they go about their business, etc. There's no confusing them and Vics either.

I suppose, though, you'd normally want a club name to capture the club's identity with little or no further explanation necessary. That's clearly not the case here! But, if that's what they want to call themselves, and are happy to have to cough up the full explanation every time they're asked, then I can't see a problem.
...'annual Clapton argument' and most appropriate to the issue of identity theft there is.
 

caulfield_paul

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They certainly have a good PR team that manages to paint identity and history theft from an existing club in a 'positive' light, that's for sure. Drowning in oceans of political correctness, bunging clubs who play on a field a few quid to switch venues on the 'threat' of too many people turning up and painting themselves as moral crusaders. Not at all appropriate for the level they play at, in my view and just about the most sensitive to any form of criticism whatsoever, this environment included.
The stadium, and the support are still there. Did you really want the ground to disappear? It certainly sounds like it.
 

markust

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Paul Cockerton

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They certainly have a good PR team that manages to paint identity and history theft from an existing club in a 'positive' light, that's for sure. Drowning in oceans of political correctness, bunging clubs who play on a field a few quid to switch venues on the 'threat' of too many people turning up and painting themselves as moral crusaders. Not at all appropriate for the level they play at, in my view and just about the most sensitive to any form of criticism whatsoever, this environment included.
No point in us getting into an argument, you clearly don't like our club, and I'm not going to change your views. All I would say is I hope that one day saving London's oldest football ground, at a cost of hundreds of thousands of pounds and non-stop volunteer work for nearly a year so far, would gain at least some grudging respect.

However, I would like to dispute your claim that we're 'bunging clubs who play on a field a few quid to switch venues on the 'threat' of too many people turning up', One CCFC game has been switched, which was FC Roast vs Clapton CFC in May 2019. It was entirely Roast's request to switch as the prospect of hundreds turning up to a 3G cage (Market Road in Islington) wasn't practical. I think it's a stretch to call that a 'bung', never mind 'bungs' plural, they simply wouldn't have been able to accommodate a large crowd. In the end 1,266 turned up, for what it's worth, and FC Roast did some good things with their gate receipts.

Very specific circumstances, I'd hope most would agree. Most football fans much prefer an away day, and CCFC are no different. For what it's worth, there are very few 'roped off fields' in the Middlesex County Football League Premier and, anyway, nothing wrong with football in fields, they comfortably hold supporters and it's free to watch, so there would be no need to switch them.
 
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Bigaitch

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If they wanted to be on home turf so much, they wouldn't have sold the ground in the first place, or would have secured a new stadium of their own - not a groundshare - before moving out.
I think that can be put down to the actions of an unscrupulous owner, hence the formation of Enfield Town by disillusioned fans.
 

Noanorak

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No point in us getting into an argument, you clearly don't like our club, and I'm not going to change your views. All I would say is I hope that one day saving London's oldest football ground, at a cost of hundreds of thousands of pounds and non-stop volunteer work for nearly a year so far, would gain at least some grudging respect.

However, I would like to dispute your claim that we're 'bunging clubs who play on a field a few quid to switch venues on the 'threat' of too many people turning up', One CCFC game has been switched, which was FC Roast vs Clapton CFC in May 2019. It was entirely Roast's request to switch as the prospect of hundreds turning up to a 3G cage (Market Road in Islington) wasn't practical. I think it's a stretch to call that a 'bung', never mind 'bungs' plural, they simply wouldn't have been able to accommodate a large crowd. In the end 1,266 turned up, for what it's worth, and FC Roast did some good things with their gate receipts.

Very specific circumstances, I'd hope most would agree. Most football fans much prefer an away day, and CCFC are no different. For what it's worth, there are very few 'roped off fields' in the Middlesex County Football League Premier and, anyway, nothing wrong with football in fields, they comfortably hold supporters and it's free to watch, so there would be no need to switch them.
You are perfectly entitled to your opinion, The acute sensitivity of those following a new club with no history of any kind to any kind of criticism is always likely, particularly when claiming the achievements of others. I don't like the level of football I watch being turned into a circus and resembling a fringe political meeting, so yes, I would tend to stay away.
 

Paul Cockerton

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You are perfectly entitled to your opinion, The acute sensitivity of those following a new club with no history of any kind to any kind of criticism is always likely, particularly when claiming the achievements of others. I don't like the level of football I watch being turned into a circus and resembling a fringe political meeting, so yes, I would tend to stay away.
That's fine, let's agree to disagree, but I hope you understand we're not giving out bungs. We're simply enjoying playing at Step 7 (both men's and women's) while working tirelessly to make the Old Spotted Dog fit to host football.
 

James F

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Bootle have occasionally made claim to the honours of the original club of the same name - including their three Liverpool Senior Cups won during the 1880s. Six decades separate the formation of the current club (initially known as Langton, from a local dock) and the winding up of their predecessors.
 

OGLV

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There's a big hoorah between Bury fans. As Bury FC are still a club - just not placed in a league, many hardcore Bury fans accuse Bury AFC of stealing their nickname 'The Shakers', the club badge and the club history.

There surely at least needs to be some level of footballing activity to call yourself a football club.

Bury FC are a company, nothing more.
 

dtr1989

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There surely at least needs to be some level of footballing activity to call yourself a football club.

Bury FC are a company, nothing more.
I completely agree. Unfortunately many of our fans are quite simple and don’t understand that. The barrage of abuse forced the Bury AFC chairman to step down due to receiving threats from Bury fans who believed that AFC have stolen everything Bury built. Bury AFC ISNT a Phoenix club as many assume, a Phoenix club is created after the main club has gone. Bury FC are still around, but as you mentioned, they are just a company, a shell.

I don’t have the same passion or want for Bury AFC as I did Bury FC. I don’t class myself as a supporter, however I do think what they have done is great and I support their idea to bring football back to Bury. The abuse spouted by the ‘remainers’ to AFC staff, players and supporters is simply disgusting.
 

bigjmc

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Always thought Bradford Park Avenue were in the same category as the original club was liquidated and the supporters started again in Sunday football.
 

Manchester Warrior

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Always thought Bradford Park Avenue were in the same category as the original club was liquidated and the supporters started again in Sunday football.
Believe that the size of BPA's debts in 1974 were such that the group of supporters that set up the Sunday league outfit to "keep the name alive" wouldn't have had a hope of settling them.

Which raises the question... In which circumstances can a "phoenix club" legitimately claim the history of a predecessor team?
 

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