FA way forward for 20/21 (steps 3+ and feeders)

SotonSats

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I seem to remember F.A. Standard Rules preventing one match counting for double points
Yes that is correct. Has to be two completely separate matches of 60 minutes.
 

agamemnon3

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It has been reported on another forum that of the twenty-one Clubs in the Spartan South Midland League Premier Division, only three have bothered to respond to the recent FA survey on how, or if, the season should continue.

This perhaps suggests that whatever the FA might decide, in this part of the world at least, for a great many people at Step 5 level the season is already over.
 

John Treleven

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The "reminder" list circulated by the F.A. earlier this week showed that 70% of all clubs had responded
 

paulh66

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As well as the trident leagues statement earlier today, the chairman of the FA Leagues Committee has today issued a statement outlining the way forward for steps 5/6 plus the feeder leagues: https://combinedcounties.pitchero.com/update-from-mark-frost-chairman-fa-leagues-committ-64928
......
"The County FA’s will be liaising with the Regional Feeder Leagues as to how they may decide what is the best options for themselves to conclude their seasons"
Kent County League wants to carry on with the season when safe and able to do so, though they acknowledge the decision may end up with the County FA, as mooted above: https://kentcountyfootballleague.co.uk/league-news/league-statement-24-01-21/

Note that the league AGM decided that PPG would only apply if at least half the games have been played, so null be void would seem to be a given if they can't resume.
 

Bigaitch

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Interesting article that, although I query the comment about players not wanting to return. When I played I despised any form of break, no matter the cause, injury, weather or just the summer and was chomping at the bit to get restarted. Everyone I played with was the same. If players are potentially going to drift away from playing I would question their commitment in the first place.
 

Ellisref

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Mind you with this season anything could happen lol!!!
Not a fan of double headers (4x60 mins) unless you're able to change the referee for the second match. If you've had problems in the first match and dismissed players they're still eligible to play in the second game with more potential for problems.
In addition, it favours teams with greater player availability - Team A turns up with 18 players for the two games, Team B turns up with 12, fitness/injury during game 1 impacts on game 2.
 

agamemnon3

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Which would suggest that of the twenty-eight Step 5/6 Clubs not to respond, eighteen of them are from the SSML Premier. Possible, I suppose, but hard to believe.

On the other hand, it may just suggest that the other website was reporting rubbish.
 

SotonSats

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Not a fan of double headers (4x60 mins) unless you're able to change the referee for the second match. If you've had problems in the first match and dismissed players they're still eligible to play in the second game with more potential for problems.
In addition, it favours teams with greater player availability - Team A turns up with 18 players for the two games, Team B turns up with 12, fitness/injury during game 1 impacts on game 2.
All true and one team gets two home games with the other team penalised? Not ideal but better than calling a halt!
 

Ellisref

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All true and one team gets two home games with the other team penalised? Not ideal but better than calling a halt!
I recall some competitions insisted the clubs split the total cost of the two games, also in some competitions the referee only got a slightly enhanced fee rather than two. Not that I'm suggesting any referees are only in it for the money (2 x Saturday, 2 x Sunday and x nights cage football (sorry, 5/6/7 a side).
 

John Treleven

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I suspect that the mistaken SSM figures were taken from the reminder circular issued about nine days ago when it listed who had replied for each division
 

SotonSats

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I recall some competitions insisted the clubs split the total cost of the two games, also in some competitions the referee only got a slightly enhanced fee rather than two. Not that I'm suggesting any referees are only in it for the money (2 x Saturday, 2 x Sunday and x nights cage football (sorry, 5/6/7 a side).
Yes County FA insist shared expenses but only to include refs and pitch. Ref gets 2 full match fees but one expenses 36p per mile. If Club own pitch or pay a season fee for use then no charge for that.
 

SotonSats

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Yes County FA insist shared expenses but only to include refs and pitch. Ref gets 2 full match fees but one expenses 36p per mile. If Club own pitch or pay a season fee for use then no charge for that.
A further issue with foreshortened matches is the goal difference issue a team may not win by as many goals as they would have or may not even win a game that they would have fitness issues!
 

SotonSats

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A further issue with foreshortened matches is the goal difference issue a team may not win by as many goals as they would have or may not even win a game that they would have fitness issues!
Also it is difficult to ask a team that doesnt normally pay per pitch to play away at a Council pitch that costs £70 to split 50:50 when they would not normally pay. Some of the artificial pitches cost well over a hundred pounds for 2 to 3 hours play which would not go down well to away teams sharing fees. So there are pluses and minuses with double headers! But the main thing this season is to keep safe and well and if possible to reach satisfactory outcomes of leagues so that Project Non League restructure can finally happen if possible but secondary to health.
 

Beano

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I don't see any "pluses" in 60 minute games and doubt that many spectators would be interested either.
I certainly wouldn't bother with them
I'm not sure anyone is suggesting 'double-headers' should be used at Steps 3-6; just sharing their experiences of how they've been used at grassroots level, such as in Sunday Leagues, to deal with fixture congestion.

On one level, 2 x 60 minute matches would, in theory, provide more football for the spectator's money. However, on a more serious note, there's no way that (for example) Workington would agree to slog all the way down to Widnes to play two games on a 3G pitch in front of 100 home fans rattling around a 13,000 capacity stadium when their home game would attract 400+ spectators from which they would generate revenue.

Listening to The Non-League Show this morning, I tend to agree with the view expessed by Havant & Waterlooville manager Paul Doswell. He acknowledged that he had fought hard for play-offs at Step 2, but also that the situation now is much worse than the reality in late Spring and Summer. He was scathing about the failiure of The FA and Leagues to properly plan for another stopped season and argued that, given the number of matches played, null and void is the only option because time needs to be allowed for COVID-19 to be brought under control.

Mr Doswell estimated that just to keep Step 1 going until the end of this season would require approximately £100,000 per month, per club and argued that clubs like Barnet and Dover Athletic would be foolish to borrow around half a million pounds if there was no prospect of that liability being relevant to survival at Step 1 (or worse, if they borrowed the money then got relegated).
 

paulh66

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Listening to The Non-League Show this morning, I tend to agree with the view expessed by Havant & Waterlooville manager Paul Doswell. He acknowledged that he had fought hard for play-offs at Step 2, but also that the situation now is much worse than the reality in late Spring and Summer. He was scathing about the failiure of The FA and Leagues to properly plan for another stopped season and argued that, given the number of matches played, null and void is the only option because time needs to be allowed for COVID-19 to be brought under control.
So Doswell's at it again, now laughably inventing failure by others to "properly plan" because he can't get the promotion he wants, rather than acknowledging the fact that there are two separate issues here:

1) a decision whether to curtail a season:

This can obviously only ever be taken at the time. Re 19/20 the FALC did this swiftly in March and got slaughtered by the likes of Doswell. Now they're bending over backwards to get the clubs' views as to whether to curtail 20/21 and he's at it again. Presumably this guy wants some hitherto unheard of 'third way' to reach that decision....or more likely just wants his cake and eat it.

2) a decision what to do IF the season is curtailed:

The (perceived) absence of a "proper plan' has occasionally drawn criticism (from within a vacuum) on here for not being fully defined last summer. But right now it's a complete red herring - everyone (even the self-contradictory Doswell, so it seems!) knows nowhere near enough games have been played for it to be anything other than null and void.
"Project Non League" MIGHT offer a neat compromise IF the FA is still minded to proceed with the proposed restructuring this summer, but the emergence of that idea now has nothing to do with any (perceived) failure to properly plan last summer.
 

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