Euro 2021

buncranaboy

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Absolutely shocking by Scotland today against a pretty average Czech side.
Not shocking at all but for sure a poor result against a higher-ranked side. The Czechs scored two good goals, one a worldie while the Scots missed their chances.
The opposite of England on Sunday where they weren't brilliant in a game that was totally even on possession, chances made and shots on target. One of England's went in; the Croats couldn't manage to score. Small margins.
 

leohoenig

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24 teams, four best placed in knock out rounds

This system was used in three World cups, and the last Euros

1986. World Cup. Mexico. 2 points for a win
The qualified teams were Belgium, Poland (3 points), Bulgaria, Uruguay (2 points)
The failures were Hungary (2 points) and Northern Ireland (1 point)
If converted to three points for a win, it would have been Belgium and Poland 4, Hungary 3, Bulgaria 2 with Uruguay 2 and Northern Ireland 1 missing out.
Of the six, Belgium had a level goal difference, while all the rest were negative
Belgium reached the semi-finals, the others were knocked out in the first ko round

1990. World Cup. Italy. 2 points for a win
The qualified teams were Argentina, Columbia, Netherlands and Uruguay (all three points)
Missing out were Austria and Scotland (two points)
At 3 points for a win, the same four would have gone through with Argentina, Columbia and Uruguay having four points, Netherlands still 3 (all games drawn), while Austria and Scotland would still have three points, but negative goal difference. With three draw, the Netherlands had a zero goal difference, Uruguay was -1 while the other two South Americans were +1
Argentina reached the final, the others were knocked out in the first ko round

1994. World Cup. USA. 3 points for a win
Qualified teams, Argentina, Belgium (6), USA, Italy (4).
Not qualified Russia 3, South Korea 2
Only South Korea had a negative goal difference, Argentina was 3, Belgium and Russia 1 and the USA and Italy both with one win and one defeat were on 0
Italy reached the final, the others were knocked out in the first ko round

2016. Euros. France. 3 points for a win
Qualified. Slovakia, Republic of Ireland (4), Portugal, Northern Ireland (3)
Not qualified Turkey, Albania 3
It was negative goal difference that made the difference for thos knocked out. Portugal and N. Ireland were on 0. The Republc of Ireland also had a negative goal difference
Portugal won the cup. The others were knocked out in the first ko round

Conclusion, a win and a draw should do it. 25% of teams going through in third have good tournament. 75% fall at the first knock out match
 

leohoenig

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And for comparison

2019. Asian Cup. UAE. 3 points for a win
Qualified Bahrain (4), Kyrgyzstan, Oman, Vietnam (3)
Not qualified Lebanon 3, Palestine 2

The first 3 were on zero goal difference. Both Vietnam and Lebanon scored 4 and conceded 5 with Vietnam going through with the better disciplinary record
Vietnam won one ko match before going out in the quarter finals. The others failed at the first ko round
 

007Dale

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24 teams, four best placed in knock out rounds

This system was used in three World cups, and the last Euros

1986. World Cup. Mexico. 2 points for a win
The qualified teams were Belgium, Poland (3 points), Bulgaria, Uruguay (2 points)
The failures were Hungary (2 points) and Northern Ireland (1 point)
If converted to three points for a win, it would have been Belgium and Poland 4, Hungary 3, Bulgaria 2 with Uruguay 2 and Northern Ireland 1 missing out.
Of the six, Belgium had a level goal difference, while all the rest were negative
Belgium reached the semi-finals, the others were knocked out in the first ko round

1990. World Cup. Italy. 2 points for a win
The qualified teams were Argentina, Columbia, Netherlands and Uruguay (all three points)
Missing out were Austria and Scotland (two points)
At 3 points for a win, the same four would have gone through with Argentina, Columbia and Uruguay having four points, Netherlands still 3 (all games drawn), while Austria and Scotland would still have three points, but negative goal difference. With three draw, the Netherlands had a zero goal difference, Uruguay was -1 while the other two South Americans were +1
Argentina reached the final, the others were knocked out in the first ko round

1994. World Cup. USA. 3 points for a win
Qualified teams, Argentina, Belgium (6), USA, Italy (4).
Not qualified Russia 3, South Korea 2
Only South Korea had a negative goal difference, Argentina was 3, Belgium and Russia 1 and the USA and Italy both with one win and one defeat were on 0
Italy reached the final, the others were knocked out in the first ko round

2016. Euros. France. 3 points for a win
Qualified. Slovakia, Republic of Ireland (4), Portugal, Northern Ireland (3)
Not qualified Turkey, Albania 3
It was negative goal difference that made the difference for thos knocked out. Portugal and N. Ireland were on 0. The Republc of Ireland also had a negative goal difference
Portugal won the cup. The others were knocked out in the first ko round

Conclusion, a win and a draw should do it. 25% of teams going through in third have good tournament. 75% fall at the first knock out match

I’ve never really been a fan of the 24 team tournament, due to the fact you end up playing 36 games just to eliminate 8 teams. Results in lots of tentative games and no one needing to ‘go for it’.

However, I really don’t like the prospect of diluting the Euros further, by increasing the tournament to 32 (I’m sure it will happen at some point).

I really liked the 16 team version, albeit, it really limits the ability of many nations to qualify for the tournament.
 

leohoenig

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1623857498580.png1623857536223.png

Watching the game today, it occurred to me that Cherchesov is basically the fat controller, with a moustache, but no hat. Especially when he is on the sidelines shouting out orders to Gordon the Green Engine
 

windydcfc

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jon b

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On the Radio 4 News this morning heard a reporter bigging up the game by harking back to famous clashes of previous years. This included a reference to Paul Gascoigne's "winning" goal in the 1996 Euros.

Not a remark to make in the vicinity of Alan Shearer methinks.
 

Tykeoldboy

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Just a side note to the upcoming game between Italy v Wales. If Wales win then they will become the Unofficial Football World Champions for the first time since 1988. Anyone not familiar with the ufwc.co.uk website should check it out, it explains all
 

Chris1963

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Just a side note to the upcoming game between Italy v Wales. If Wales win then they will become the Unofficial Football World Champions for the first time since 1988. Anyone not familiar with the ufwc.co.uk website should check it out, it explains all
I've had a look at the website and it doesn't explain why Italy v Wales (as opposed to any other match in Euro 2020-21) is the deciding match. Still, if it's harmless stuff, who cares?
 

Lord Lucan

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I've had a look at the website and it doesn't explain why Italy v Wales (as opposed to any other match in Euro 2020-21) is the deciding match. Still, if it's harmless stuff, who cares?
The explanation on the website is perfectly clear.
 

Scotty BUFC

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I've had a look at the website and it doesn't explain why Italy v Wales (as opposed to any other match in Euro 2020-21) is the deciding match. Still, if it's harmless stuff, who cares?

Italy are the current "UFWC Champions" and their next match is against Wales.
 

Tykeoldboy

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I've had a look at the website and it doesn't explain why Italy v Wales (as opposed to any other match in Euro 2020-21) is the deciding match. Still, if it's harmless stuff, who cares?
It works they same way as boxing, where there is a champion and the next opponent is the challenger. The website was inspired by Scotland's victory over England in 1967 but traces back to the first ever international in 1872.
 

TowlawTom

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The drawn game last night would have pleased Scotland more then England as far as the group goes.

Although a draw in Englands final game against Czech Republic will put both teams through. There won't be a carve up as England will want to win to play last 16 game at Wembley.

Scotland will also know what result they need to Qualify for at least 3rd place as Groups A and B and C would have finished their fixtures. One main reason why I am not a fan of 24 team tournament as those teams in groups C,D,E,F have an advantage as they will know what result they need to Qualify for 3rd place spot.
 

leohoenig

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The uneveness is always a problem, but also you can say more matches but less quality. 36 games reduces the field from 24 to 16. Four points will almost always get you through. England can only drop to third anyway if Scotland win the final game. UEFA uses head to head before goal difference [The main reason for this is that FIFA uses goal difference before head to head]. Still, it is goal difference that relegates England to second place in the case of a drawn final game.

Scotland already know therefore - they need to win. A draw is not going to be enough.
 

007Dale

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The uneveness is always a problem, but also you can say more matches but less quality. 36 games reduces the field from 24 to 16. Four points will almost always get you through. England can only drop to third anyway if Scotland win the final game. UEFA uses head to head before goal difference [The main reason for this is that FIFA uses goal difference before head to head]. Still, it is goal difference that relegates England to second place in the case of a drawn final game.

Scotland already know therefore - they need to win. A draw is not going to be enough.

2nd place would be ok for England. They lose home advantage, but potentially play Sweden, instead of Portugal / Germany.

That said, the way we played last night, last 16 might be all we manage regardless of who we play.
 

LeedsPhil

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I'm convinced 0-0 was deliberate on Friday. As it will be on Tuesday (anybody who bets might want to have a couple of quid on that).
And winning by only one goal in the first game was deliberate too.
i.e. :
Get 3 points in the bag in the opener, but limit it to a g.d. of only +1.
Hope that the other first match ends with a bigger margin. Which it did. So sitting pretty in second place.
Don't lose against the Scots else we'll never hear the bldy end of it, but don't make the mistake of winning against them either else we might accidentally win the group and have to play France / Germany / Portugal. So kill the game for a 0-0. Which they did. Kalvin Phillips is not that uncreative. For him and everybody else to have had such a tippy-tappy nothing match shows me that that was the instruction from Southgate.
So all that remains now is another bore draw and we get the 2nd place that yields a theoretically much easier next match. The Czechs are likely to be happy to guarantee progress, even if it does mean a tough next match for them, so they would shake hands on a gentlemen's agreement to go through the motions of a 0-0 that freezes the other two out of the top 2.
Not that anyone involved will ever admit any of this, of course.
 

007Dale

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I'm convinced 0-0 was deliberate on Friday. As it will be on Tuesday (anybody who bets might want to have a couple of quid on that).
And winning by only one goal in the first game was deliberate too.
i.e. :
Get 3 points in the bag in the opener, but limit it to a g.d. of only +1.
Hope that the other first match ends with a bigger margin. Which it did. So sitting pretty in second place.
Don't lose against the Scots else we'll never hear the bldy end of it, but don't make the mistake of winning against them either else we might accidentally win the group and have to play France / Germany / Portugal. So kill the game for a 0-0. Which they did. Kalvin Phillips is not that uncreative. For him and everybody else to have had such a tippy-tappy nothing match shows me that that was the instruction from Southgate.
So all that remains now is another bore draw and we get the 2nd place that yields a theoretically much easier next match. The Czechs are likely to be happy to guarantee progress, even if it does mean a tough next match for them, so they would shake hands on a gentlemen's agreement to go through the motions of a 0-0 that freezes the other two out of the top 2.
Not that anyone involved will ever admit any of this, of course.
The slight problem with that is Spain have gone and cocked-up and now could end up in 2nd place.

I’d expect them to beat Slovakia, so it comes down to whether Sweden beat Poland for top spot.

From what I’ve seen so far, neither England or Spain will get beyond the quarters.
 

Canary fan

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I'm convinced 0-0 was deliberate on Friday. As it will be on Tuesday (anybody who bets might want to have a couple of quid on that).
And winning by only one goal in the first game was deliberate too.
i.e. :


Get 3 points in the bag in the opener, but limit it to a g.d. of only +1.
Hope that the other first match ends with a bigger margin. Which it did. So sitting pretty in second place.
Don't lose against the Scots else we'll never hear the bldy end of it, but don't make the mistake of winning against them either else we might accidentally win the group and have to play France / Germany / Portugal. So kill the game for a 0-0. Which they did. Kalvin Phillips is not that uncreative. For him and everybody else to have had such a tippy-tappy nothing match shows me that that was the instruction from Southgate.
So all that remains now is another bore draw and we get the 2nd place that yields a theoretically much easier next match. The Czechs are likely to be happy to guarantee progress, even if it does mean a tough next match for them, so they would shake hands on a gentlemen's agreement to go through the motions of a 0-0 that freezes the other two out of the top 2.
Not that anyone involved will ever admit any of this, of course.
The problem with this theory is it only postpones meeting the best team by one match. Second in Group D does play second in Group E in the last 16 but the winner of that plays the winner of Group F in the quarter finals anyway. I think it unlikely that they would make all those arrangements you suggest, just to get the hardest quarter final game.
 

Bigaitch

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Whilst I fully understand the points being made here about finishing second being better than first, the reality is that to win a competition you have to beat someone decent along the way at some point.
 

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