Coronavirus

jon b

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The storming of the Capitol and the consequent second Trump impeachment mean I've been watching a lot of CNN lately.

One news story that's getting a lot of coverage is the serious concern in the USA around what is described as a highly dangerous and contagious Covid 19 variant that's spreading over there.

The variant is described as the UK variant. 😕
 

MattRam

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Interesting programme on World Service last night. More or Less tasked 2 scientists/ mathematicians with estimating the total worldwide volume of covid virus.
Obviously some big assumptions made and an order of magnitude different in answers but arrived at 8ml and 160ml, scary and fascinating.
 

ChrisHFC

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Interesting programme on World Service last night. More or Less tasked 2 scientists/ mathematicians with estimating the total worldwide volume of covid virus.
Obviously some big assumptions made and an order of magnitude different in answers but arrived at 8ml and 160ml, scary and fascinating.
Didn't hear the World Service programme last night, but last Wednesday morning basically the same item was covered on Radio 4's "More or Less". It's possible that the World Service last night was repeating the item from "More or Less", given that the answers arrived at were the same.
 

MattRam

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Didn't hear the World Service programme last night, but last Wednesday morning basically the same item was covered on Radio 4's "More or Less". It's possible that the World Service last night was repeating the item from "More or Less", given that the answers arrived at were the same.
The WS version is often a 10 min, short version of R4 one, got R4 'taped' or whatever the word is.
 

Mr. T

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Johnson in the HoC today:

The third review will consider the potential role of Covid status certification in helping venues to open safely but mindful of the many concerns surrounding exclusion, discrimination and privacy.

'Covid status certification' = 'vaccine passports'.

Oh for the time when powerful Tory men in expensive suits would emerge from the shadows and lead the offender away.
 

Chris1963

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Johnson in the HoC today:

The third review will consider the potential role of Covid status certification in helping venues to open safely but mindful of the many concerns surrounding exclusion, discrimination and privacy.

'Covid status certification' = 'vaccine passports'.

Apparently they're already doing it in Israel but you need a smartphone to carry the information. Not good news for those who are too elderly or whose disabilities make it difficult for them to use one.
 

johnr

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In the context of allowing overseas travel, the Govt. are exploring what arrangements could be made and will report by 12 April, e.g. proof of vaccination to allow reciprocal travel to carefully selected countries.
There is no possibility of any non essential travel abroad before 17 May at earliest. Most likely much later as we await other countries to catch up with their vaccination programmes.
 

Chris1963

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In the context of allowing overseas travel, the Govt. are exploring what arrangements could be made and will report by 12 April, e.g. proof of vaccination to allow reciprocal travel to carefully selected countries.
There is no possibility of any non essential travel abroad before 17 May at earliest. Most likely much later as we await other countries to catch up with their vaccination programmes.
I expect proof of vaccination will require everyone who hasn't got a smartphone to purchase one before they travel abroad, on the basis that paper proof of vaccination won't be acceptable because it can easily be forged. Which begs the question; why would anyone go to the trouble and expense of forging a paper form when the vaccination itself is free of charge?
 

Kirby Knitters

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Didn't we go through the above with people who don't have smartphones etc when it was apparently the only way to fill in the locator forms for arrival back in the UK? No paper equivalent was available as it was in many countries such as Ireland and Germany. I don't remember if anyone on here encountered problems for not being in possession of such devices. I certainly saw queueing at an airport because of incorrect or no such documentation.
 

007Dale

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I’d suggest if you can afford to go on a foreign holiday, you should be able to afford a smartphone. It doesn’t have to be the latest Apple device. You can pick up a reconditioned own-brand device for a few pounds.

I’d also suggest that if you’ve managed to find your way online onto this forum, you are probably capable of working a basic smart phone.

Failing all of that, there will be a Manual / paper process, but it’s likely to require you to join a long queue as Kirby suggested.
 

johnr

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Didn't we go through the above with people who don't have smartphones etc when it was apparently the only way to fill in the locator forms for arrival back in the UK? No paper equivalent was available as it was in many countries such as Ireland and Germany. I don't remember if anyone on here encountered problems for not being in possession of such devices. I certainly saw queueing at an airport because of incorrect or no such documentation.
I managed to go to Poland and Germany last summer for the obvious reasons. Each time I had the form saved on my phone. There were others with printed out forms who had done it on the internet but did not have relevant phones. For my second flight from Berlin easyjet handed out blank forms for people to fill in!!
At Bristol anyone without a form were directed to one side to manually fill out the form and form a long queue
 

Kirby Knitters

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Did the same destinations in October so i probably fell for the usual gov. uk propaganda but no forms were handed out by EZY or even mentioned. Hopefully it'll all become a thing of the past before long so we'll just have other 'new' concerns on landing 😉
 

Mr. T

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Apparently they're already doing it in Israel but you need a smartphone to carry the information. Not good news for those who are too elderly or whose disabilities make it difficult for them to use one.
It's not the practice that's the problem but the very principle.
 

Chris1963

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It's not the practice that's the problem but the very principle.
Agree with you completely. I've never owned a smart phone myself as it's not worth the hassle and worry over whether it might get broken or stolen - neither of which will happen to a sheet of paper.
 

Steveb

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No one would be forced to have a vaccine ceritifcate. But those who choose not would have to accept there’s some things they’ll be unable to access as a consequence.

if you choose not to have a passport you can’t travel abroad. If you choose not to have a driving licence you can’t drive a car. If you choose not to have age ID, and you look young enough to need it, you can’t buy aged-restricted products like alcohol.

And I reckon a ‘vaccine passport’ could accommodate those unable (as opposed to unwilling) to have a vaccine for health reasons. In number they’re probably fewer than those who would have had a vaccine but fall within the few % for whom it doesn’t work.
 

Mr. T

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There is no justification for a vaccine passport for this disease. Your comparisons are bogus. The idea that someone who does not have certification presents a danger to society is monstrous. That anyone should believe it to be so is frightening.

Some countries demand travellers have, for instance, proof of yellow fever vaccination. This is justified on the basis that yellow fever is: (a) a far more serious disease than Covid; (b) the vaccine is highly effective; (c) these countries are mostly poorer with inferior health systems and do not want sick foreigners using their limited resources.

Covid, however, is, like flu, a variable disease. If, as appears possible, it varies enough to render current vaccines ineffective in subsequent winters then passports will have to be issued every year.

Excluding people from ordinary activities for not being certified against this disease is, at best, a gross overreaction. At worst, it is the policy of a totalitarian state.
 

Kirby Knitters

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It's not really down to us though is it? If other nations have vaccine passport requirements as a condition of entry then you will have two obvious choices.

Totalitarian state? Off subject, but we went down that road years ago with government agencies spying on our every move. The people of this country have had freedom of speech taken away and a whole host of other things that our parents took for granted. Privacy laws that exist in countries such as the Netherlands, Germany and many others are a thing of the past.
 

Mr. T

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It's not really down to us though is it? If other nations have vaccine passport requirements as a condition of entry then you will have two obvious choices.

As I said, for some countries and diseases this is justified – but for this one?

Totalitarian state? Off subject, but we went down that road years ago with government agencies spying on our every move. The people of this country have had freedom of speech taken away and a whole host of other things that our parents took for granted. Privacy laws that exist in countries such as the Netherlands, Germany and many others are a thing of the past.

The creeping surveillance and intrusion of recent years is bad enough but the blanket restrictions that might result from Covid passports would be a step too far.
 

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