2021 - Scottish "Pyramid" Developments - Facts NOT Speculation Please

prorege

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Some progress on Pyramid evolution in Scotland.

The East of Scotland and West of Scotland Leagues have settled on a “dividing line”. Stirling, Falkirk and West Lothian Council areas are official East, North Lanarkshire and East Dunbartonshire officially West. Any exceptions would need to be agreed by both Leagues.

The rump West Lothian Junior teams are all moving Senior next season. A few were rumoured to have a preference for the West rather than the East but that option is now effectively cut off. An exception may be made for Harthill. The town is in North Lanarkshire but their ground is 20 yards across the border with West Lothian.

No agreement announced on any dividing line between West of Scotland League and South of Scotland League. Kello Rovers and Caley Braves Reserves are currently in what would seem to be the “wrong” League if we assume the dividing line is Dumfries and Galloway for the South.

Stupidly the East of Scotland League twitter man responded to questions. Asked if Tayside teams could join the East of Scotland League he said no. A few hours later he had to retract that saying no such decision had been made.

The Tayside Junior clubs are currently in limbo. The Highland League does not want them in any future North Pyramid and they do not want to be in it. Fervent Pyramidistas insist that they are north of the Tay Bridge Line therefore must go North. Pragmatists accept that it is more important to get them into the Pyramid system one way or another, either as part of the East of Scotland League or as a new Midlands Senior League, promoting to the Lowland League. Some of these Tayside Junior clubs will push the issue over the next few weeks so concrete developments are imminent.
 

Harry West

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Let's get this straight here and now!
The ONLY speculation allowed is from "prorege".
That is not to say that prorege's reading of the situation is in any way inaccurate - but you have to laugh.
 

prorege

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Should have added that Bathgate Thistle confirmed yesterday that they have applied to the East of Scotland League, joining Livingston United in going public.
 

prorege

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Amateur side Kilbride Thistle, notionally from West Kilbride, have confirmed that they will apply to the West of Scotland League for next season. They plan to play at St Matthews Academy in Saltcoats. They have absorbed youth team Tass Thistle into their set up and will run an Amateur side under that name as well. They aim to have the facilities at the school up to West of Scotland League requirements in time for next season.
 

Cyclizine

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You say "no speculation" but saying the Highland League don't want the Tayside teams sounds like speculation to me... Any evidence of this? Main issue is that none of the Tayside teams are licenced, can't join the Highland League anyway.

Tayside teams need into the pyramid one way or the other.
 

prorege

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Club officials I have spoken to have all been against it. Do you know of examples of clubs that are in favour? No names, obviously.
 

Lord Lucan

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If this is to be Facts Only then I think we need links to said facts. At present there are phrases such as "were rumoured to have", "an exception may be made", "what would seem", "club officials I have spoken to" ......

To that end, here is this joint WoS/EoS statement;

and Bathgate's:

Newspaper article re Kilbride Thistle:
 
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prorege

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It is a fact that several East Junior clubs explored joining the West of Scotland League. Evidence can be found on the Facebook pages and Twitter feeds of the clubs concerned. Whitburn and Armadale Thistle for instance.

The announcement from the East and West Leagues is clear that, if both agree, exceptions can be made. It is a fact that Harthill want to go West rather than East. It is also a fact that there are some geographical anomalies with the Stirling Council area that would justify examination as exceptions.

I cannot provide links to phone or email conversations with officials from clubs that I have had as part of my work. Where confidence allows I can provide the gist of them. I haven’t spoken to anyone connected with Highland League clubs who would welcome clubs from Tayside joining the League. That is fact.

I do try to share information that I glean from various sources on here. Sometimes it is not possible to provide links because there are none.
 

piehut

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Exciting times indeed.

Just wondering (not speculating) what the 'game changer' for the West Lothian stragglers has been...
Why has it taken until now for the likes of Bathgate to finally declare for the EOS?

On a different note I can see the logic in fixed boundaries for each league but it would have been much more fun to have movement between east and west.
 

prorege

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The game changer was the failure of the SJFA to negotiate "en bloc" Junior entry to the pyramid and the mass movement of the West Juniors in 2020. The West Lothian clubs put their faith in the SJFA when some clubs from Fife and the remainder of the Lothians realised that was unwise. Furthermore, the rump West Lothian clubs are mainly from a part of the county that has many "cultural" links with areas to the West. With the West Juniors staying loyal to the SJFA for an additional year compared to most of the East, these clubs stayed with them. Once the West Juniors realised the game was up and went Senior there was no alternative left for the West Lothian clubs.

The future of the four "new" clubs is less clear. Bo'ness United JFC, Sauchie Community JFC and Syngenta now need to make a decision about their future. The first two have naming issues. BUJFC are a separate club from the Seniors of the same name. Sauchie have direct links with their Senior namesakes. Linlithgow Rose JFC are in abeyance at present and must decide whether to return and if so at what level. Syngenta have not made any public statement of their intentions but they have been very busy developing club infrastructure.
 

Brightside

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If my counting skills are correct the current numbers @ Senior & Junior level are as follows;

Tier 5

Lowland - 17 (12 East, 3 West, 2 South)
Highland - 17

Tiers 6 & 7

East of Scotland - 49
West of Scotland - 67 (Including 1 in South)
South of Scotland - 14 (Including 1 in West)

North Caledonian - 9

Juniors

North Region -32 (1 in Tayside)
East Region North (Tayside) - 17
East Region South (Lothian) - 13

Total by Area

North - 57 (24%)
Tayside - 18 (8%)
East - 74 (31%)
West - 70 (30%)
South - 16 (7%)
 

LeedsPhil

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If my counting skills are correct the current numbers @ Senior & Junior level are as follows;

Juniors

North Region -32 (1 in Tayside)
East Region North (Tayside) - 17
East Region South (Lothian) - 13
Who is your "1 in Tayside" in the North Juniors?
If you mean Montrose Roselea, the most southerly of the North Juniors, they're in Angus, not Tayside.
 

piehut

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And the 13 'Lothian' clubs includes:

Bo'ness which is in the Falkirk council area.
Sauchie in the Clackmannanshire council area
And Syngenta who are also based in the Falkirk council area according to
 

Brightside

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Who is your "1 in Tayside" in the North Juniors?
If you mean Montrose Roselea, the most southerly of the North Juniors, they're in Angus, not Tayside.

The 1 was Montrose Roselea.

I was under the impression that Tayside included Angus, Dundee, Perth & Kinross.
And the 13 'Lothian' clubs includes:

Bo'ness which is in the Falkirk council area.
Sauchie in the Clackmannanshire council area
And Syngenta who are also based in the Falkirk council area according to

Thanks, the reason I didn't separate out those three clubs is because I think they would fit naturally within the East Region (with a possible exception to Sauchie but even still, I think that is more 'Central').

Clubs in Angus + Perth & Kinross don't appear to know whether their future lies within the Highlands or the Lowlands.

I should have added there are 3 East of Scotland teams in Tayside. These are Luncarty, Kinnoull & Jeanfield Swifts.
 
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prorege

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I think you are conflating different sets of terminology.

Tayside could correctly be applied to the pre 2002 Junior Region or the pre 1996 Local Authority Region. That was broken up into Angus, Dundee and Perth & Kinross Councils.

Since 2002 former Tayside Junior clubs have been part of the East Region of the SJFA. The East Region was formed by the merger of the Tayside, Fife and Lothians Junior FA Regions. Lower divisions were designated as North, Central and South.

For completeness, one club often referred to as "Tayside" plays in Fife - Tayport. For interest, the club nearest to the Tay, Newburgh, have never played in Tayside despite being on Tayside. In fact, the Tay has been known to be in their ground.

When the Stirlingshire Junior FA was dissolved, member clubs were given the choice of applying to Fife, Lothians or Central. The Stirlingshire Junior FA also included Clackmannanshire. Sauchie, from north of the Forth joined the Lothians, but Grangemouth from south of the Forth initially joined Fife. Clackmannan the club, as opposed to the county, joined Fife. Tulliallan, from Kincardine the town as opposed to Kincardine the county , joined Fife. And Nairn Thistle were from Fife, not Nairn.

Bo'ness was traditionally in the Lothians but is now part of Falkirk Council, except for schools football in which they still compete in Lothians competitions. Well they did, until the pandemic stopped them.

It should all be perfectly clear.
 

Brightside

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For clarity, I present my (hopefully clearer & hopefully correct) numbers.


Tier 5

Lowland - 17 (12 East, 3 West, 2 South)
Highland - 17

Tiers 6 & 7

East of Scotland - 49 (Including 3 in Perth & Kinross)
West of Scotland - 67 (Including 1 in South Region)
South of Scotland - 14 (Including 1 in West Region)

North Caledonian - 9

Juniors

North Region -32 (1 in Angus)
East Region North - 17 (1 in Fife)
East Region South - 13

Total by Area

North - 57 (24%)
Angus, Dundee, Perth & Kinross - 20 (9%)
East - 72 (31%)
West - 70 (30%)
South - 16 (7%)
 

prorege

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Pumpherston have confirmed that they have applied to join the East of Scotland League for 2021/2.
 

GNU_Linux

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AFC Letham have confirmed they've submitted an application to the EOS. Amateur team from Perth currently playing in the Perthshire Amateur Football Association & have dominated the league winning 6 of the previous 7 seasons. From the teams facebook:

CLUB UPDATE:

After a long hard winter for everyone connected to grassroots football we are now hopefully moving into an easing of restrictions and back into some form of training shortly.

Whilst football has been called to a halt over the last 4 months the management team and committee at Letham have been working tirelessly in the background and last week we submitted an application to join the East of Scotland Football Association structure.


We as a club feel the time is right to seek new challenges and opportunities after the successes at amateur level over the last decade.

If accepted by the members of the EOS association we look forward to a new and exciting chapter in our history.
The future is bright, the future is Tangerine!
 

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