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Home: Non Football Related: General Chat:
General Election 2019

 

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Yatesman
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Nov 11, 2019, 9:47 PM

Posts: 1621
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Post #176 of 596 (1317 views)
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Re: [PaulC] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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I was listening to WATO today and people in Boston were being interviewed.

My god, there are a lot of thick Tory-voting Brexiteers down there, fed on the garbage dished out to them by the English Tory press.


Itís a shame that you feel the need to insult Brexit voters. Iíd suggest anyone needing to belittle people like that has already lost the argument.




Listen and weep at their stupidity

ďIím voting out, is that what itís about?
ďNo, itís a General Election
ďOh, I donít vote in them ones. I stay out of them.Ē

ďI canít stand Jeremy Corbyn, he hates the countryĒ

ďDeputy leader of the Labour party, resigned, former Labour MP told people not to vote Conservative, Rees-Mogg was talking about Grenfell, .... did you hear any of that?

1st person ďIíve got grandkids, I donít really watch tellyĒ

2nd person ď No, no, not really heard anything of that. No.Ē
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000b4qm
30 mins

The most pro-Brexit town in the UK.


Whether you call them 'thick' or highlight their alleged 'stupidity'

It amounts to the same.........you are saying nothing of interest and adding nothing to the debate..
You're just venting your spleen against your political opponents
It's my experience that those people understand far better the issues that negatively affect their culture , their lives and their livlihoods than you give them credit for and it's that that hones their voting instincts.
The middle class 'intellectuals' , with the luxury of wealth and distance can pontificate about the dogmatic or ideological purity of a given political stance whilst being suitably insulated from its real life consequences., e.g. unfettered immigration,
Then they can haughtily condemn those too stupid to recognise the purity of their clever, sanctimonious political views.
They can afford to vote in a manner that impacts them minimally but the hoi polloi massively.


jon b
Chelsea Transfer Target

Nov 11, 2019, 10:12 PM

Posts: 3068
Location: Dronfield
Team(s): SUFC, SWFC etc

Post #177 of 596 (1301 views)
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Re: [steve walker] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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we care about how our real lives are being affected by this current Government whose only promise seems to be to be undo all the damage they have done in the past 10 years.


Very sorry to hear about your wife's ill health Steve, and I share your concerns about the NHS and public services.

It's intensely annoying that the slogan "Britain deserves better" is being trotted out by the gang who've slashed funding for health, education, welfare, local govt etc.since 2010. Unfortunately, they're dodging a debate on their record by trying to focus as much as possible on Brexit whilst discovering an orchard of magical money trees just in time for the GE.

My fears for the NHS mirror your own. Our son works in a hospital department constantly under severe stress from under funding and shortage of staff. His health has been affected by the pressure. Not helped by his wife having at short notice this summer to re-apply for her job at a sixth form college because of funding cuts. She wasn't reappointed despite being praised in a recent Ofsted inspection for outstanding work. Fortunately, she managed to redeploy to another department, other colleagues found themselves out on the street.

Sadly, I think Corbyn and Co. failed to grab the opportunity when Theresa May approached them desperate for their support earlier in the year. They could have squeezed out of her protection for workers rights and for the environment in exchange for their support for a soft Brexit. The ERG would have gone into meltdown but a workable deal could have been achieved and the Tories would still have been vulnerable in 2022 GE. Instead of which we've ended up with a leader no-one can trust (ask the DUP) and a Brexit GE.

Johnson and Co have managed to scare me stiff with their breezy talk of a No Deal Brexit. My wife survives, though in constant pain, due to a long list of daily medications. The prospect of any interruption in supply of them is so frightening that we never discuss the possibility.

I don't see any easy way forward out of the current mess and there are a whole host of dangers with whatever direction we take.

.


steve walker
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Nov 11, 2019, 10:34 PM

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Post #178 of 596 (1287 views)
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Re: [jon b] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I think if Theresa May nor even Cameron had approached Corbyn & Co far earlier then we wouldn't have been in this mess. When she did it was far too late as the stances were far too entrenched.

I also think that Labour are quite right in focussing on workers rights and ensuring that we adhere to current EU standards. It's true to say that in many aspects our workers rights are actually above the minimum required by the EU. You don't need EU permission to enhance those rights, there is only one reason why you would want to disengage from that standard and that is to reduce them. There is no other reason.

We have a Johnson/ Farage / Trump alliance now that wants to move us more to a USA style economy. If people vote for that then I hope they know what they are letting themselves in for. I'm an old guy it won't affect me too much... for my grandkids that have no say... well I did what I could.


PaulC
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Nov 11, 2019, 10:55 PM

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Post #179 of 596 (1257 views)
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Re: [007Dale] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Massive blow to Labour and the Remoaners:

Brexit Party to stand aside in 317 seats won by Tories at the last election.

All resources to be poured into challenging Labour.


Well, just fancy that:

ďNigel Farage claimed he was offered a peerage 48 hours before blinking first in his Brexit stand off with Boris Johnson .

The Brexit Party chief was forced to scrap plans to stand candidates in hundreds of seats amid mounting warnings he risked scuppering EU withdrawal.Ē

He claimed he was offered a peerage on Friday night Ė just two days before his screeching U-turn boosted the Prime Minister.
Daily Mirror


(This post was edited by PaulC on Nov 11, 2019, 11:03 PM)


007Dale
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Nov 12, 2019, 5:50 AM

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Post #180 of 596 (1191 views)
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Re: [007Dale] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Brexit Party to stand aside in 317 seats won by Tories at the last election.

All resources to be poured into challenging Labour.


There are some interesting constituencies where the Tories didnít win in 2017 and therefore (as it stands) the Brexit Party could still impact the result.

One example is North Norfolk, which has been one of the very few seats the Lib Demís managed to hold onto during the public backlash in 2015.

Norman Lamb is standing down, who was a very popular local MP, whoíd managed to Ďdig himself iní pretty well and overcome national politics. However, North Norfolk voted 59% in favour of Leave in 2016, but voted to retain Norman Lamb 48-42 (Lib-Con) in 2017, without UKIP standing.

With the popular incumbent standing down this could well have come into play for Tories again, given the large leave vote, however adding a Brexit candidate will no-doubt impact on that.

Given there is a genuine chance for Tory victory over Lib Demís in NN (and probably similar in the south west), I wonder if there could be further withdrawals from the Brexit party in the coming days.


Yatesman
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Nov 12, 2019, 7:08 AM

Posts: 1621
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Post #181 of 596 (1166 views)
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Re: [steve walker] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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I think if Theresa May nor even Cameron had approached Corbyn & Co far earlier then we wouldn't have been in this mess. When she did it was far too late as the stances were far too entrenched.

I also think that Labour are quite right in focussing on workers rights and ensuring that we adhere to current EU standards. It's true to say that in many aspects our workers rights are actually above the minimum required by the EU. You don't need EU permission to enhance those rights, there is only one reason why you would want to disengage from that standard and that is to reduce them. There is no other reason.

We have a Johnson/ Farage / Trump alliance now that wants to move us more to a USA style economy. If people vote for that then I hope they know what they are letting themselves in for. I'm an old guy it won't affect me too much... for my grandkids that have no say... well I did what I could.


I'm not sure I buy in to the notion that the Tories are poised to stomp on Workers' rights.

As you say, Employment Law in the UK is far superior to EU requirements and if the Tories had wished to, have had a decade to reduce that. Therefore your claim that to disengage from the EU can only mean a desire to reduce standards is wholly false.

What troubles you about a US style economy?

There is no indication that is to be our future model so why do you believe that?


007Dale
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Nov 12, 2019, 8:33 AM

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Post #182 of 596 (1143 views)
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Re: [007Dale] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

 The Brexit Party will also stand in the (traditional) Tory safe seat of Buckingham. Not part of the 317 as itís the former seat of John Bercow.

Here they are unlikely to make much impact on the result in a marginally Remain (51%) constituency. The last time this seat was contested (2005) properly, the Tories won with 58% of the vote - a majority of 38%.

However, the Brexit party wonít contest the seat of Change UK MP, Anna Soubry. Obviously won as a Tory in 2017, this is a leave voting area (55%).

The seat was won last time with a majority of 860 over Labour. The Liberals will not be standing, but Greens / Change split the Remain vote.

Brexit not standing here is a massive blow for Labour and Change UK. Mrs Soubry will need to be one hell of a good local MP to retain this seat, but itís possible she picks up Tory Remain voters to split the blue vote and let in Labour.


007Dale
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Nov 12, 2019, 8:47 AM

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Post #183 of 596 (1133 views)
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Re: [007Dale] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

One more to consider; Ashfield. They voted 70% Leave in 2016. Last won by the Tories in a 1977 by-Election, this has long been held by Labour.

In 2017, labour won by 400 votes over Tories. However, UKIP took 1,800 votes in that election.

In 2015, labour won by 9,000 votes over the Tories, when UKIP got 10,000 votes.

Between 2015 and 2017 UKIP votes went Tory, so the assumption might be; Brexit Party standing here is bad for the Tories. However, you could argue the 1,800 who voted UKIP in 2017 could never bring themselves to vote Tory. Therefore does Brexit standing here help the Tories by taking Labour votes? Difficult to say, but itís possible.


TroubleAtMill
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Nov 12, 2019, 9:07 AM

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Post #184 of 596 (1121 views)
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Re: [007Dale] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The ruder people on this thread, put people off being persuaded to their argument.
Put a reasoned argument, you have a better chance of persuading me an undecided floating voter to your argument, rather than put me off your party and position.
Currently we unfortunately getting to the ludicrous position where the most coherent policies and arguments being are being put forward by the Monster Raving Loony Party, CoolFrown


dottirofhod
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Nov 12, 2019, 10:18 AM

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Post #185 of 596 (1101 views)
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Re: [TroubleAtMill] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Currently we unfortunately getting to the ludicrous position where the most coherent policies and arguments being are being put forward by the Monster Raving Loony Party, CoolFrown



Vote for insanity.

Just love their manicfesto A-Z policies.
Policies A-Z
The A-Z of the OMRLP Manicfesto Just a sample of what youíd get by voting for insanity Ė you know it makes sense!
A.AIR bags will be fitted to the Stock Exchange immediately, ready for the next crash.
B. BRITAIN will exit Europe and join the Duchy of Cornwall to benefit from tax exemptions.
C. CAPITAL Punishment will be opposed on the grounds that it is unfair to Londoners.
D. DATA will be secured, placed in a brown bag and hidden in the PMís socks and pants drawer.
E. Education. All University Tuition fees for women would be free as we are strong believers in Female intuition. (Due to gender equality laws we would include males as well)
F. FRIVOLOUS Fraud Office setup to inspect fraud too silly for the Serious Fraud Office.
G. GREYHOUND racing will be banned to prevent the country going to the dogs.
H. HALF the grey squirrels will be painted red to increase the red squirrel population.
I. INNOCENT prisoners will be released in order to reduce prison overcrowding.
J. JOBSEEKERS will be made to stand two abreast in order to halve dole queues.
K. KIDS will be made to sit closer together on smaller desks in to reduce school class sizes.
L. LONDON Marathon free to anyone finishing in sub-2 hours wearing large clownís shoes.
M. MEGA carwash will be created by punching holes in the roof of the Channel Tunnel.
N. NATIONAL debt will be cleared by putting it all on our credit card.
O. OAPS will qualify for a Summer Ice Lolly Allowance if temperatures exceed 70 degrees.
P. PUDDLES deeper than 3 inches will be marked by a yellow plastic duck.
Q. QUITTERS will be encouraged not to start in the first place to improve their self esteem.
R. REGULATIONS concerning car boot sales will be relaxed to permit selling of all car parts.
S.STAMP duty will be cancelled as stamps are expensive enough without having to pay duty.
T.TERRORISTS will be made to wear Bells and Horns so we know where they are.
U.UNRULY teenagers will be superglued together as if you canít beat them, join them.
V. VEHICLES will be fitted with bungy ropes in order to save fuel on the return journey.
W. WIND farms will be created nationwide, where breaking wind will be encouraged.
X. X-RAY machines will be manned by a skeleton staff.
Y. YELLOW lines will be painted where you can park instead of where you canít to save money.
Z. ZEBRA crossings will be made permissible to all animals wishing to cross the road.



July 1, 2019 to June 30,2020 = 127 / 107 / 20 / 5 x 0-0's. (You know my rules) @ 07 / 12 / 2019 . Belgium top 5 tiers 0-0-0-(0-1-0)-(0-1-1-2) / Holland top 4 tiers - 0-0-0-(0-0) / Lux top 2 tiers 0 -2. England top 10 tiers - 0. Now blogging at https://eccentricity.video.blog/



Towlawtom
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Nov 12, 2019, 11:26 AM

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Post #186 of 596 (1072 views)
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Re: [007Dale] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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One more to consider; Ashfield. They voted 70% Leave in 2016. Last won by the Tories in a 1977 by-Election, this has long been held by Labour.

In 2017, labour won by 400 votes over Tories. However, UKIP took 1,800 votes in that election.

In 2015, labour won by 9,000 votes over the Tories, when UKIP got 10,000 votes.

Between 2015 and 2017 UKIP votes went Tory, so the assumption might be; Brexit Party standing here is bad for the Tories. However, you could argue the 1,800 who voted UKIP in 2017 could never bring themselves to vote Tory. Therefore does Brexit standing here help the Tories by taking Labour votes? Difficult to say, but itís possible.


Maybe the electorate will consider other things too! Maybe Boris not declaring the floods up North a National Emergency.

Would he have done the same if they had occurred in The Surrey stockbroker heartlands?

Still plenty of time left for further Gaffes and lies from him.



I need to have the last word, as it always looks as if I am right !


prorege
Man City Transfer Target!


Nov 12, 2019, 1:35 PM

Posts: 7047
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Post #187 of 596 (1036 views)
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Re: [Towlawtom] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Well, hereís my tuppenceworth.

Undecided who to vote for at the moment. I live in what would be described as a Labour / SNP marginal constituency.
So what are my political priorities:

1) Retaining membership of the EU, or failing that membership of the Customs Union with free movement of labour (achieved through a Referendum)
2) A more progressive and extensive taxation system to redistribute wealth and support better public, health and social services
3) Nationalisation of key industries such as the railways
4) Creation of a fully Federal UK with four national parliaments and a national parliament, all elected using a PR system
5) Replacement of the House of Lords with an elected upper chamber

In terms of these priorities the Lib Dems might be an obvious choice. However, under the current system a vote for them is a vote wasted, where I live.

Clearly I will not vote Tory. I never have done and never will. I fail to see how anybody can vote for these charlatans other than the privileged elite.

So that leaves Labour and the SNP. One of them will win my constituency regardless of how I vote. Does it matter which one I vote for?

Plus points about the SNP are mainly related to their performance in Edinburgh, which has been admirable. Their performance at Westminster has been disappointing, to say the least. Ian Blackford is a poor leader and I am surprised that Sturgeon hasnít replaced him. The SNPís activists, both on line and in the real world, annoy me intensely with their relentless selective use of facts and repetitive arguments. They seem to think the electorate are idiots who are unable to think for themselves.

Plus points about Labour, at Westminster, are hard to identify. The party needs greater clarity in its approach to Brexit. Fudging the issue in the hope of not alienating some voters is not helpful. Some of the backbenchers have impressed me but I doubt if they will flourish under the current leadership.

My general satisfaction with the SNP performance at Holyrood might be a reason for supporting independence and therefore voting SNP. I assume that post independence the SNP would simply become the National Party following a centre left agenda and cutting loose the more extreme factions. However, much as I have been alienated by the circus of Westminster in recent years, I am yet to be convinced of the economic arguments for independence. I find it hard to reconcile the view of Scotland as an oil-rich country with the SNPís vision of an eco-friendly environmental utopia.
The possibility of a Labour / SNP alliance to keep the Tories out of power has some attractions. However, I am far from convinced that they will win enough seats between them to achieve this. Between them they will sweep the board in Scotland but I fear for Labour in England. It would be great if the Lib-Dems would join such a progressive Alliance but they will not do so. I believe that Labour and the SNP should formalise an alliance and campaign on the basis of a coalition government, with or without Lib Dem involvement. Their platform should be that if in government they would:

1) Commit to a Scottish independence referendum within the life of the Parliament
2) Commit to implement a PR voting system by the time of the next Parliament
3) Implement broadly left of centre social and economic policies
4) Re-negotiate an exit deal with the EU on the basis of remaining in the Customs Union and retaining free movement of labour, and put it to a referendum

So, back to the question Ė Labour or SNP? Which is the more likely to lead to a policy platform outlined above. I will make up my own mind in due course and the harder people and parties try to persuade me one way or the other with selective propaganda the more likely I am to oppose their arguments.


007Dale
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Nov 12, 2019, 2:21 PM

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Post #188 of 596 (1016 views)
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Re: [prorege] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Interesting read Prorege, good to get insight into someoneís thought process.

I think this election, more than ever, will be one where tactical voting comes into play. People will vote in a tactical way, to increase the chances of (what they consider) the most important issue to them.

You mention not voting Lib Dem as they canít win, so you take a pragmatic view about who next best can deliver what you want - I think more people will do this.

For me, the biggest issue in this election is not allowing Corbyn into Number 10. As a brexiteer, I would even vote Lib Dem if I thought it stopped Corbyn, because, whilst I want Brexit delivered, I really donít wonít the country trashed by Labour (& selfishly my personal circumstances to worsen).

Fortunately for me, I can have my cake and eat it, at this election, where a vote for the Tories, keeps Labour out.

What I like about tactical voting is that is shows our electorate are considered enough to see the bigger picture and vote in a way that delivers the outcome they want, not blithely vote down party lines for historic or social reasons.


Chris1963
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Nov 12, 2019, 3:42 PM

Posts: 7067
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Post #189 of 596 (971 views)
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Re: [prorege] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Ian Blackford is a poor leader and I am surprised that Sturgeon hasnít replaced him.


Is Ian Blackford actually the leader of the SNP? I've never even heard of him. Every time I turn on the TV, I see Nicola Sturgeon being interviewed by the BBC!


PaulC
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Nov 12, 2019, 4:59 PM

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Post #190 of 596 (923 views)
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Re: [Chris1963] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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In Reply To

Ian Blackford is a poor leader and I am surprised that Sturgeon hasnít replaced him.


Is Ian Blackford actually the leader of the SNP? I've never even heard of him. Every time I turn on the TV, I see Nicola Sturgeon being interviewed by the BBC!


Blackford is the leader of the Westminster group of MPs. That is all.

Sturgeon is the SNP leader.

Prorege means heís surprised Sturgeon hasnít replaced Blackford with someone else. Iím not sure thatís within her gift.


(This post was edited by PaulC on Nov 12, 2019, 5:02 PM)


steve walker
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Nov 12, 2019, 8:02 PM

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Post #191 of 596 (855 views)
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Re: [Yatesman] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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I'm not sure I buy in to the notion that the Tories are poised to stomp on Workers' rights.

As you say, Employment Law in the UK is far superior to EU requirements and if the Tories had wished to, have had a decade to reduce that. Therefore your claim that to disengage from the EU can only mean a desire to reduce standards is wholly false.

What troubles you about a US style economy?

There is no indication that is to be our future model so why do you believe that?



It's a fairly obvious point in that if you want to disengage from current EU standards on workers rights then in the long term you are not looking to improve them are you? You can improve them at will without EU approval. These are basic things such as holiday entitlement and maternity rights amongst many others. So it really isn't "wholly false" now but opens the door in the future, a door which will no doubt be walked through.

What troubles me about a US style economy is that everything has to be paid for individually. Private Insurance is needed if you become ill, I don't think it's a route we want to go down and don't get me started on the America First climate change reversal by Trump

Why do I believe that? Are you kidding? Johnson + Farage + his best mate Trump all working together and you don't think we are Americas next top model? I don't want to go to that place.


007Dale
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Nov 12, 2019, 8:51 PM

Posts: 1826
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Post #192 of 596 (823 views)
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Re: [steve walker] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

YouGov have released the first poll since the Brexit Party announcement:

Conservative 42% (+3%)
Labour 28% (+2%)
Lib Dem 15% (-2%)
Brexit 4% (-6%)
Green 4% (-)
SNP 3% (-1%)

Tory Majority 14% (+2%)


(This post was edited by 007Dale on Nov 12, 2019, 8:52 PM)


Towlawtom
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Nov 12, 2019, 9:35 PM

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Post #193 of 596 (797 views)
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Re: [007Dale] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

And From Survation taken today who were perhaps the most accurate pollsters in 2017

CON: 35% (+1)
LAB: 29% (+3)
LDEM: 17% (-2)
BREX: 10% (-2)
GRN: 1% (-)

Not looking so good for the Tories and further bad news for them.
Many Labour leavers state that Brexit is not their top priority.



I need to have the last word, as it always looks as if I am right !


Yatesman
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Nov 12, 2019, 9:47 PM

Posts: 1621
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Post #194 of 596 (784 views)
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Re: [steve walker] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To


I'm not sure I buy in to the notion that the Tories are poised to stomp on Workers' rights.

As you say, Employment Law in the UK is far superior to EU requirements and if the Tories had wished to, have had a decade to reduce that. Therefore your claim that to disengage from the EU can only mean a desire to reduce standards is wholly false.

What troubles you about a US style economy?

There is no indication that is to be our future model so why do you believe that?



It's a fairly obvious point in that if you want to disengage from current EU standards on workers rights then in the long term you are not looking to improve them are you? You can improve them at will without EU approval. These are basic things such as holiday entitlement and maternity rights amongst many others. So it really isn't "wholly false" now but opens the door in the future, a door which will no doubt be walked through.

What troubles me about a US style economy is that everything has to be paid for individually. Private Insurance is needed if you become ill, I don't think it's a route we want to go down and don't get me started on the America First climate change reversal by Trump

Why do I believe that? Are you kidding? Johnson + Farage + his best mate Trump all working together and you don't think we are Americas next top model? I don't want to go to that place.



I don't agree with your analysis. You are just cherry picking aspects of Leaving and making erroneous assumptions based on nothing but your anti-Tory prejudice.

We are leaving the EU so that means EU law is no longer applicable......But that's why we have UK Law and UK law is at least is good as, never worse than and often better than EU law.
And it will continue to evolve and improve and be relevant to this country.........as always!

Your comments on the UK slavishly copying the US economic or environmental model is not really plausible, just Project Fear.


colpic
Chelsea Transfer Target


Nov 13, 2019, 1:35 AM

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Post #195 of 596 (746 views)
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Re: [Yatesman] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To


I'm not sure I buy in to the notion that the Tories are poised to stomp on Workers' rights.

As you say, Employment Law in the UK is far superior to EU requirements and if the Tories had wished to, have had a decade to reduce that. Therefore your claim that to disengage from the EU can only mean a desire to reduce standards is wholly false.

What troubles you about a US style economy?

There is no indication that is to be our future model so why do you believe that?



It's a fairly obvious point in that if you want to disengage from current EU standards on workers rights then in the long term you are not looking to improve them are you? You can improve them at will without EU approval. These are basic things such as holiday entitlement and maternity rights amongst many others. So it really isn't "wholly false" now but opens the door in the future, a door which will no doubt be walked through.

What troubles me about a US style economy is that everything has to be paid for individually. Private Insurance is needed if you become ill, I don't think it's a route we want to go down and don't get me started on the America First climate change reversal by Trump

Why do I believe that? Are you kidding? Johnson + Farage + his best mate Trump all working together and you don't think we are Americas next top model? I don't want to go to that place.



I don't agree with your analysis. You are just cherry picking aspects of Leaving and making erroneous assumptions based on nothing but your anti-Tory prejudice.

We are leaving the EU so that means EU law is no longer applicable......But that's why we have UK Law and UK law is at least is good as, never worse than and often better than EU law.
And it will continue to evolve and improve and be relevant to this country.........as always!

Your comments on the UK slavishly copying the US economic or environmental model is not really plausible, just Project Fear.


Project Fear - the standard leaver response when they can't put forward a counter argument. Very very boring.

Your comments display a consistently arrogant and condescending attitude. You are harvesting comments to fit your own narrow bias and you simply dismiss the points that you have no answer to with aggressive rhetoric. Given your obvious contempt for fellow posters, I'm at a loss as to why do you even bother to grace us with your presence? I'm sure that there must be another forum somewhere just crying out for an intellect such as yours. (My God, I'm starting to sound like you....)

Having said that, and as I've said before, it would be a shame if you left us. Just try not to be so totally obnoxious, because that really isn't the way to influence people. One day you might have something useful to say, but no one will be reading it in view of the way you conduct yourself. Anyway, all the best etc - I'll check back on this board in a couple of weeks to see if you've come to your senses. Give my regards to Isaac - I assume you are related?
Wink



Where's the 'ignore this poster' button?


Yatesman
First Team Star

Nov 13, 2019, 7:03 AM

Posts: 1621
Location: A Wee Toon in the Scottish Borders
Team(s):

Post #196 of 596 (717 views)
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Re: [colpic] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I don't think I deserved that...........Your whole post is saying nothing just attacking me!
You ask me not to be obnoxious........by being obnoxious!!

I've never once referred to my intellect to justify my position on a given issue .
That's Paul C territory.
I've consisttently argued against diminishing and denegrating a person's political stance or opinions based on their assumed intelligence or educational attainment........... Although I might have suggested that people who have been to university have lost their ability to think freely and are more prone to dogmatic attitudes based on their percieved superiority..........I might have suggested it's that which pollutes our national political discourse!

As for Project Fear, I suggest the opposite to you that it is the default position of liberals and Remain voters because THEY have no coherent arguments!!

Anyway, I'll try to use more of these things ..
SmileSmileSmileSmileWink


007Dale
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Nov 13, 2019, 7:53 AM

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Post #197 of 596 (702 views)
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Re: [Towlawtom] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
And From Survation taken today who were perhaps the most accurate pollsters in 2017

CON: 35% (+1)
LAB: 29% (+3)
LDEM: 17% (-2)
BREX: 10% (-2)
GRN: 1% (-)

.


It matters little as Polls are notoriously unreliable, but the pedantic in me likes to keep things accurate.

I believe youíre quoting the Survation poll taken 6-8 November, before the Brexit Party announcement.

I was highlighting the poll by YouGov 10-11 November, after the announcement.

As I say, it doesnít really matter at this stage, things will change.


007Dale
First Team Star

Nov 13, 2019, 8:20 AM

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Team(s): St Albans City, Leicester City

Post #198 of 596 (689 views)
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Re: [007Dale] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Farage has had a bit of stick the last few days over his decision to stand down in 317 seats.

Heís suggested that the Tories should stand down in seats that theyíve not won in 100 years to give the Brexit Party a clear run.

If we look at a Brexit top-target of Hartlepool, the results of the 2017 GE;

Labour 22k
Con 14k
UKIP 5k

This would suggest the Tories have more chance of winning this if Brexit stand down, rather than the other way round.

However, itís likely a large portion of those UKIP voters could never counternance voting Tory.

If we go back to 2015:
Labour 14k
UKIP 11k
Con 8k

This suggests the UKIP collapse had equal impact on both Labour and Tories in 2017.

Therefore there may be some merit in Farageís argument in this seat that Brexit Party have a better chance of winning.

If the Tories did stand-down here, much would depend on where the Tory-Remain vote went.


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Nov 13, 2019, 9:38 AM

Posts: 10552
Location: Barnetby
Team(s): Derby County FC England Borussia MŲnchengladbach

Post #199 of 596 (655 views)
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Re: [007Dale] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Thereís a lot of Brexit Party members are furious at Farage for pulling them out of those Tory held seats. They are asking for their money back and Farage has said no! Youíve got to ask where the money has gone.
Talking about money, the investigation into Russian interference in our election. Has been shelved until after the election. I wonder why the Tories would want to hide some of their donors? Nothing to do with them being Russian Oligarchs with links to Putin!
The Russians are influencing western elections and referendums.



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


007Dale
First Team Star

Nov 13, 2019, 9:41 AM

Posts: 1826
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Team(s): St Albans City, Leicester City

Post #200 of 596 (655 views)
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Re: [007Dale] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

David Gauke has stuck the knife in the Tories this morning. The former Tory Lord Chancellor will stand as an Independent in Remain (54%) backing SW Herts.

Itís an enormous ask to retain his seat, which wonít be contested by the Brexit Party. Itís one of the safest Tory seats in the country:

2017:
Tory: 35k
Labour: 16k
LD: 7k
Green: 2k
UKIP: 1k

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