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Home: Non-League Football Discussion: Restructuring Discussion:
Bury Demise

 

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Unicorn
Chelsea Transfer Target

Oct 15, 2019, 1:31 PM

Posts: 3889
Location: Canterbury
Team(s): Arsenal and South Eastern Football

Post #151 of 180 (7979 views)
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Re: [spen666] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Really can not see what HMRC have to gain by pushing this.
The ground seems to be the property of someone else.
Might as well back off and see if something turns up.
If the club has nothing you can only get nothing.


So the HMRC should just allow taxpayers to not pay their debts?

If you don't pay your debts, you must face the consequences, whether a football club, Woolworths PLC, Thomas Cook Plc or Mrs. Miggins.

to decide not to chase debts is the stupidest thing I have heard. All you do is encourage others not to pay, knowing there will be no consequences


Its not stupid at all.
There is no point to putting the club out of business if there is no money available to be had anyway.
Give them room and all the time they need.
Put them out of business tomorrow and HMRC will probably get nothing.
They may get nothing by waiting but its worth taking that risk.


Doobs
Junior Team Regular

Oct 15, 2019, 3:27 PM

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Post #152 of 180 (7826 views)
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Re: [spen666] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Agreed. HMRC isn't an overdraft facility.


spen666
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Oct 15, 2019, 3:56 PM

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Post #153 of 180 (7772 views)
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Re: [Unicorn] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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In Reply To

In Reply To
Really can not see what HMRC have to gain by pushing this.
The ground seems to be the property of someone else.
Might as well back off and see if something turns up.
If the club has nothing you can only get nothing.


So the HMRC should just allow taxpayers to not pay their debts?

If you don't pay your debts, you must face the consequences, whether a football club, Woolworths PLC, Thomas Cook Plc or Mrs. Miggins.

to decide not to chase debts is the stupidest thing I have heard. All you do is encourage others not to pay, knowing there will be no consequences


Its not stupid at all.
There is no point to putting the club out of business if there is no money available to be had anyway.
Give them room and all the time they need.
Put them out of business tomorrow and HMRC will probably get nothing.
They may get nothing by waiting but its worth taking that risk.



of course its a stupid idea.

If people know HMRC won't chase debts, then they won't pay HMRC.

If Bury or any other business or individual don't pay the debts they are due then they deserve to be put out of business.

Why should I pay extra taxes to subsidize Bury football club or any other impecunious tax payer.

you may also care to think that Bury charge VAT on match tickets for example...so they have had the money for the tax man and then they have chosen to spend it on something different.

How long do HMRC wait to get paid from Bury? Its not bury are 7 days late with the money. They are in debt to the tune of £millions and to many different creditors

If you don't pay your debts, you deserve to be made bankrupt. The fact they are a football club is irrelevant and not a consideration.


Unicorn
Chelsea Transfer Target

Oct 15, 2019, 4:50 PM

Posts: 3889
Location: Canterbury
Team(s): Arsenal and South Eastern Football

Post #154 of 180 (7697 views)
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Re: [spen666] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Your not really understanding what i am saying.
But you are commenting on things that i have not said.
Never mind.
Tomorrow may end it.


paulh66
Qatar World Cup bid member!


Oct 15, 2019, 5:15 PM

Posts: 19372
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Post #155 of 180 (7643 views)
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Re: [Unicorn] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

 

In Reply To
There is no point to putting the club out of business if there is no money available to be had anyway.


The point of doing it is to show that ultimately, if you don't pay, you'll be liquidated. No messing around ad infinitum. Has a deterrent value too.


In Reply To
Put them out of business tomorrow and HMRC will probably get nothing.
They may get nothing by waiting but its worth taking that risk.


One has to assume the HMRC has already evaluated that risk when deciding upon the action it's taking.


Plus there's the broader picture, that the fate of the existing club needs to be finally decided sooner rather than later so that, one way or another, the town can re-establish a football club to represent it. With two credible buyers now having pulled out because of due diligence findings, it's hard to see how anyone in their right mind will ever save it now.

Looks like it'll be a very sad day tomorrow but also, hopefully, the start of a new dawn.


Unicorn
Chelsea Transfer Target

Oct 15, 2019, 6:10 PM

Posts: 3889
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Post #156 of 180 (7555 views)
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Re: [paulh66] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Yes the deterrent argument is always valid.
However i am just giving my opinion.
In court tomorrow if i were HMRC and the club came up with an argument and/or asked for more time i would not push against it.
Maybe getting something in the future however unlikely is better than definitely getting nothing tomorrow.


kirby knitters
Qatar World Cup bid member!

Oct 15, 2019, 6:18 PM

Posts: 18301
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Post #157 of 180 (7537 views)
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Re: [Unicorn] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Attended Court in Birmingham for the last rites over Knitters. Case was done with in a matter of minutes and walked out with a crazy sense of relief that the madness that led us to that sad position was finally at an end.. Still living in the past though thinking on what might have been.


Yorkstar
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Oct 16, 2019, 9:08 AM

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Post #158 of 180 (7001 views)
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Re: [Unicorn] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Put them out of business tomorrow and HMRC will probably get nothing.
They may get nothing by waiting but its worth taking that risk.


The problem is that if they wait, the club may incurs more costs (PAYE/NIC) which they cannot pay - thus increasing the indebtedness. HMRC will want the club liquidated to stop this potentially occurring.

If a new company is formed, then they become liable for the new costs, which HMRC may be able to collect.


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Oct 16, 2019, 12:42 PM

Posts: 10509
Location: Barnetby
Team(s): Derby County FC England Borussia Mönchengladbach

Post #159 of 180 (6808 views)
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Re: [Yorkstar] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The case was adjourned for 14 days.



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


Reborn Yellow
Youth Team Regular


Oct 16, 2019, 12:52 PM

Posts: 239
Location: Notts Senior League Land
Team(s): Hucknall Town, Nottingham Forest

Post #160 of 180 (6773 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The BBC doesn't seem to know the difference between the National League and Nation league system.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50069246


spen666
Youth Team Star

Oct 16, 2019, 4:06 PM

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Post #161 of 180 (6555 views)
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Re: [Unicorn] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Yes the deterrent argument is always valid.
However i am just giving my opinion.
In court tomorrow if i were HMRC and the club came up with an argument and/or asked for more time i would not push against it.
Maybe getting something in the future however unlikely is better than definitely getting nothing tomorrow.



Bury have been in the Bankruptcy Court more often than they have played football in last few months.

Promises about a takeover or a new proposal are all simply hot air it seems.

Its time for everyone's sake they were put out of their misery. Clubs in the pyramid do not know what they need to do to avoid relegation or(potentially) gain promotion as the spectre of this failed club being parachuted into the pyramid at some unknown and as yet undetermined level


rainworthgord
First Team Star

Oct 16, 2019, 5:40 PM

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Post #162 of 180 (6427 views)
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Re: [Reborn Yellow] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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The BBC doesn't seem to know the difference between the National League and Nation league system.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50069246


Are you going to tell them or shall I? Shocking failure to check facts.


Unicorn
Chelsea Transfer Target

Oct 16, 2019, 6:52 PM

Posts: 3889
Location: Canterbury
Team(s): Arsenal and South Eastern Football

Post #163 of 180 (6320 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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The case was adjourned for 14 days.


Which will take them to the 30 October which is the date when the court can hear the challenge to HMRC petition.
Interesting.


scottywalds
First Team Star


Oct 16, 2019, 7:45 PM

Posts: 2245
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Post #164 of 180 (6255 views)
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Re: [Reborn Yellow] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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The BBC doesn't seem to know the difference between the National League and Nation league system.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50069246


Not the only one to make a mistake Tongue


Doobs
Junior Team Regular

Oct 16, 2019, 9:14 PM

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Post #165 of 180 (6166 views)
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Re: [scottywalds] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Indeed.

But

Alan Skelton, of Buy Our Bury - a group working for a fan-owned Bury FC - told the BBC they could take over the petition on 30 October as the club would not be paying the £54,000 in National Insurance that HMRC claimed they owed as the club no longer has any employees.

Deserves a level of mocking too. That's really not how it works


Reborn Yellow
Youth Team Regular


Oct 17, 2019, 8:07 AM

Posts: 239
Location: Notts Senior League Land
Team(s): Hucknall Town, Nottingham Forest

Post #166 of 180 (5902 views)
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Re: [scottywalds] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Whoops!


Unicorn
Chelsea Transfer Target

Oct 17, 2019, 8:56 AM

Posts: 3889
Location: Canterbury
Team(s): Arsenal and South Eastern Football

Post #167 of 180 (5848 views)
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Re: [Doobs] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Indeed.

But

Alan Skelton, of Buy Our Bury - a group working for a fan-owned Bury FC - told the BBC they could take over the petition on 30 October as the club would not be paying the £54,000 in National Insurance that HMRC claimed they owed as the club no longer has any employees.

Deserves a level of mocking too. That's really not how it works


This was of course a fresh winding up petition brought by HMRC.
If there is any opposition/ defence put up the court will nearly always simply set a future date to hear all the submissions.


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Oct 17, 2019, 5:35 PM

Posts: 10509
Location: Barnetby
Team(s): Derby County FC England Borussia Mönchengladbach

Post #168 of 180 (5480 views)
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Re: [Unicorn] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

An updated letter about the proposed way forward, has been released on Twitter by Bury North MP James Frith. If anyone wants read it, it’s on his twitter page @JamesFrith



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


spen666
Youth Team Star

Oct 18, 2019, 11:01 AM

Posts: 287
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Post #169 of 180 (4962 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
An updated letter about the proposed way forward, has been released on Twitter by Bury North MP James Frith. If anyone wants read it, it’s on his twitter page @JamesFrith


to save people hunting down the letter and wasting time reading it it says

waffle waffle blah blah blah vague suggestions of something, but to vague to mean anything, blah blah look at me I am a good MP waffle waffle


shimtoan
First Team Regular


Oct 18, 2019, 5:14 PM

Posts: 1378
Location: Dunkirk, Nottingham
Team(s): Dunkirk

Post #170 of 180 (4699 views)
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Re: [spen666] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
An updated letter about the proposed way forward, has been released on Twitter by Bury North MP James Frith. If anyone wants read it, it’s on his twitter page @JamesFrith


to save people hunting down the letter and wasting time reading it it says

waffle waffle blah blah blah vague suggestions of something, but to vague to mean anything, blah blah look at me I am a good MP waffle waffle

standard fayre, waste of a tree?



unless stated, all views are my own and are not the views of any other person, club, or organisation


spen666
Youth Team Star

Oct 24, 2019, 9:45 AM

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Post #171 of 180 (3337 views)
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Re: [shimtoan] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I'm starting to wonder which will be resolved the soonest, Brexit or the fate & future of Bury FC

We are already into late October and sides in National League and below do not know how many teams will be relegated as its not been resolved where in pyramid, if anywhere, Bury will be placed next season


hawkwind
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Oct 24, 2019, 11:19 AM

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Post #172 of 180 (3254 views)
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Re: [spen666] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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We are already into late October and sides in National League and below do not know how many teams will be relegated as its not been resolved where in pyramid, if anywhere, Bury will be placed next season


It's a valid point but I don't think there's an immediate emergency. At what date do you think the clubs need to know?


Haywain
Reserve Team Regular

Oct 24, 2019, 5:45 PM

Posts: 656
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Post #173 of 180 (2827 views)
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Re: [spen666] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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... sides in National League and below do not know how many teams will be relegated ...

They should assume that the numbers will be as advertised before Bury went pop, because the only possible change will be a reduction in numbers relegated.



Haywain - following the Hatters through thin and thin.


bakis
Reserve Team Regular

Oct 24, 2019, 6:14 PM

Posts: 608
Location: Worcestershire
Team(s): Kidderminster Harriers

Post #174 of 180 (2812 views)
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Re: [Haywain] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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In Reply To
... sides in National League and below do not know how many teams will be relegated ...

They should assume that the numbers will be as advertised before Bury went pop, because the only possible change will be a reduction in numbers relegated.
Quite. Who knows what else might transpire between now and the end of the season or just beyond that might affect the line ups for the various versions of the AGM Cup?



MiddxSaint
Youth Team Star


Oct 26, 2019, 9:23 PM

Posts: 323
Location: Hayes
Team(s): St Albans City

Post #175 of 180 (1951 views)
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Re: [bakis] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Not dead yet?

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11719/11845020/bury-fc-say-the-truth-will-prevail-after-english-football-league-exit

Live and hope.......

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