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Home: Non League Football Information: History:
Old, untraceable FA Cup Teams

 

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VP
Man City Transfer Target!


Jan 3, 2012, 10:52 PM

Posts: 10242
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Post #51 of 67 (5642 views)
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Re: [swanstuff] Old, untraceable FA Cup Teams [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Hi again John

Thank you for taking the trouble to reply so quickly.

I've been looking into St. Peter's Institute FC, too, because of the supposed connection with Staines Town FC, but have concluded that there were two (or more) clubs of this name. I'm going to make a new thread on this, in the hope that others may be able to contribute more details.

However, I no longer believe that the St Peter's Institute that competed in the early FA Cup competitions has any connection to Staines.


I couldn't see if you started a thread about this but here are the details on a St. Peter's Institute. Founded 1877, ground Battersea Park, colours not given in 1877-78. Light/dark blue in 78-79, team not listed in 79-80, back again 80-81, still at Battersea Park, colours blue/black. No mention of tham after that.


(This post was edited by VP on Jan 3, 2012, 10:54 PM)


pompeyRover
Youth Team Sub

Jan 4, 2012, 11:20 AM

Posts: 148
Location: Portsmouth
Team(s): Doncaster Rovers, Gosport, Moneyfields

Post #52 of 67 (5601 views)
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Re: [VP] Old, untraceable FA Cup Teams [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Wow VP... that's excellent stuff... especially the info on the Mosquitoes and Lennox merger Smile

Unity could be a continuation, they were FA members 1879 (first mention) to 1883 (source, the FA 1863-83: a source book - Tony Brown), unsure about later years... reference also, "meadowbank74" contribution above.

I guess the following is a list of those teams I'm still struggling on...

Cannon 1886 (London?)
Prospect United 1925 (Berkshire?)
St Cleopatra's Old Boys 1920 (Cheshire?)
Deerfield Athletic 1922 (Herts?)
Columbia 1931 (Surrey?)
Arlington 1921 (Herts?)
Channing Rovers 1902 (Sheffield?)
Thornton 1921 (Bradford?)
Dominion 1913 (Liverpool?)

and a few additions..

United London Swifts (1885)
Old St Paul's (1889 Qual)
Olympian (1899 Qual)
Liberty (1912-14 Qual)

The following 2 are not FA cup teams, just teams that are doing my head in, any clues?

Lomond (Lancashire Combination - 1972-73)
Hadleigh (Hampshire League - 1999-2002) - I know this is recent but I can't find a thing, not even a location :-(

cheers
john


dottirofhod
Man City Transfer Target!


Jan 4, 2012, 11:38 AM

Posts: 13725
Location: The North. 'Ich hassen lehm kopfs'
Team(s): Crewe Alex and obviously England.(Unlike a lot on here)

Post #53 of 67 (5600 views)
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Re: [pompeyRover] Old, untraceable FA Cup Teams [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Hadleigh (Hampshire League - 1999-2002) - I know this is recent but I can't find a thing, not even a location :-(

cheers
john

Hadleigh - ground= Taverner Close,Basingstoke.



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pauloslam
Youth Team Regular

Jan 4, 2012, 1:06 PM

Posts: 224
Location: Reading
Team(s): Maidenhead United, Reading & Flackwell Heath

Post #54 of 67 (5572 views)
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Re: [pompeyRover] Old, untraceable FA Cup Teams [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Re - Prospect United 1925 (Berkshire?)

John,

Although their is a very large 'Prospect Park' in Reading today with a dozen plus pitches, and having spent time piecing together many of the Reading and District Leagues of that time feel sure that they weren't Berkshire based. Moreover, looking at their opponents in the FA Cup, they look to be more Sheffield or North Notts/Derbys based.

Not definitive I know, but a good indication.

Paul


pompeyRover
Youth Team Sub

Jan 4, 2012, 1:16 PM

Posts: 148
Location: Portsmouth
Team(s): Doncaster Rovers, Gosport, Moneyfields

Post #55 of 67 (5569 views)
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Re: [pauloslam] Old, untraceable FA Cup Teams [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

hi paul,

yep, you're absolutely correct, something went wrong on my research of Prospect United there then...Blush

@dotti - cheers mate Smile

john


John Hansford
Youth Team Star

Jan 21, 2012, 7:21 AM

Posts: 336
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Post #56 of 67 (5238 views)
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Re: [pompeyRover] Old, untraceable FA Cup Teams [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

A couple of quick snippets of information....

Somerset Rovers were not a club side but the Somerset County FA team who occasionally toured to play matches. The Rovers being the brainchild of the Rev J Denning, the man who established football in Somerset after a meeting at the Railway Hotel in Yatton in 1885.
Midsomer Norton West End Rovers, the old ground is now a housing estate, never played in the Mid-Somerset Football Senior or Junior Football Leagues. The East Somerset and Bath Leagues being their likely competitive homes. With possibly the Binegar & District League or Midsomer Norton League at other times.

Best Wishes

John



John Hansford


pauloslam
Youth Team Regular

Jan 21, 2012, 11:25 AM

Posts: 224
Location: Reading
Team(s): Maidenhead United, Reading & Flackwell Heath

Post #57 of 67 (5216 views)
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Re: [pompeyRover] Old, untraceable FA Cup Teams [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Liberty (1912-14 Qual)

John I have the following Middlesex & District League table for 1913/14 that includes Liberty, They do no appear in the 1912/13 final league table for the M&D league - Hopefully this is useful. Paul 1 Bronze Athletic 12 8 3 1 30 8 19 2 Hampstead Town 12 9 0 3 33 15 18 3 Wealdstone 12 6 2 4 21 12 14 4 2nd Scots Guards 12 4 4 4 24 21 12 5 Page Green Old Boys 12 5 1 6 19 17 11 6 Liberty 12 4 2 6 29 31 10 7 East Ham 12 0 0 12 7 67 0


Redwood
Youth Team Sub

Oct 9, 2019, 4:07 AM

Posts: 134
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Post #58 of 67 (937 views)
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Re: [pauloslam] Old, untraceable FA Cup Teams [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Apologies for dragging up an old thread but I have the following on Deerfield Athletic from The Hendon and Finchley Times, 08Sep22:

OLD AND NEW MEET, DEERFIELD 2, ST. JOHN'S 3

'A good game was witnessed by some 200 spectators, when the newly- formed Deerfield Athletic Club entertained Hendon St. John's to a friendly on their ground at the Upper Welsh Harp last Thursday evening.....'

The forthcoming F.A Cup tie versus Arlesey is also mentioned.

Cheers, Jeff


krffji
Youth Team Star

Oct 9, 2019, 11:09 AM

Posts: 270
Location: Colchester
Team(s): Colchester United

Post #59 of 67 (896 views)
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Re: [Redwood] Old, untraceable FA Cup Teams [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Apologies for dragging up an old thread but I have the following on Deerfield Athletic from The Hendon and Finchley Times, 08Sep22:

OLD AND NEW MEET, DEERFIELD 2, ST. JOHN'S 3

'A good game was witnessed by some 200 spectators, when the newly- formed Deerfield Athletic Club entertained Hendon St. John's to a friendly on their ground at the Upper Welsh Harp last Thursday evening.....'

The forthcoming F.A Cup tie versus Arlesey is also mentioned.

Cheers, Jeff


Hadn't seen this old thread. Deerfield were in the Middlesex League, along with Colchester Town, in 1922-23. The latest table I have placed them 9th of the 10 teams P 16 W 2 D 3 L 11 F 16 A 56. The ground is referred to as Hendon.



Currently researching Colchester's amateur town clubs "Before the U's" including identifying and compiling brief biogs of all first team players.
Joint author of Colchester United's Who's Who -(Breedon Books 2008).
Colchester United youth team programme editor since 2001.
Colchester United Essex Senior Cup programme editor since 2008.



John Treleven
Qatar World Cup bid member!

Oct 9, 2019, 12:27 PM

Posts: 17337
Location: Jersey
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Post #60 of 67 (874 views)
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Re: [Redwood] Old, untraceable FA Cup Teams [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The Upper Welsh Harp pub was situated in Colindale at 117-125 West Hendon Broadway. This pub closed c2008 and became an Indian restaurant. It was scheduled for demolition in April 2017 and the building had gone by January 2018

It is not to be confused with The Harp and Horn inn which stood on the Edgware Road near Brent Bridge from the mid 18th century and was renamed the Welsh Harp by 1803. It came to be known as the Old Welsh Harp after the Upper Welsh Harp was built further north in Colindale

Deerfield Close (NW9 6QH) in Colindale is to be found off Rookery Close, which in turn is off Rushgrove Avenue to the north-east of The Hyde/Edgware Road/A5


(This post was edited by John Treleven on Oct 9, 2019, 12:39 PM)


New Forest
Youth Team Sub


Oct 9, 2019, 12:56 PM

Posts: 108
Location: Aldershot
Team(s): Leyton then Waltham Forest now Walthamstow

Post #61 of 67 (852 views)
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Re: [pompeyRover] Old, untraceable FA Cup Teams [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

 

Ramblers 1878
Hawks 1878
Clarence 1880
Argonauts 1879 (Not the team of the 1920's who tried to join the league without ever playing a game!)
Mosquitos 1883
Unity 1878
St James 1885
Cannon 1886
North Derbyshire Ramblers 1937
Saxons 1876
Suttons 1930
Prospect United 1925
Clinton 1890
Somerset Rovers 1892
Leys Recreation 1890
St Cleopatra's Old Boys 1920
Thynnes Athletic 1949
Gradwell Sports 1933
Nomads 1896
Crescent 1896
King's Own Rifles 1894
Bedouins 1935
Deerfield Athletic 1922
Columbia 1931
Arlington 1921
Avalon Rovers 1901
West End Rovers 1948
Bean 1926
Channing Rovers 1902
Vulcans 1901
Thornton 1921
Dominion 1913
Middlesex Wanderers 1904 (Appears not the be the current club of the same name. Current club formed in 1905)
Lewison 1926
Moore's Athletic 1908
Trojans 1876 (Always scratched - possibly rugby club of Eastleigh?)
Minerva 1879 (West London - first team to play at Craven Cottage v Fulham. Any other details?)
Grey Friars 1880

Someone just rattled my cage with this old thread. Most of the answers can be found in Charles Alcock's Football Annuals - the British Library have most, certainly dating from 1873.

For example The Trojans. Founded in 1869 and played at Leyton, close to the Midland Road Station. Their HQ was the Cowley Arms at Harrow Green. They played in black & white stripes. In 1874 they moved to West Ham Park.

The Ramblers played at Hackney Downs. Later off St James Street, Walthamstow

Argonauts played at South Hackney Common

Saxon played at Brixton

Mosquitos played Clapham Common

Gray Friars played at Forest gate.

They certainly deserve to be reproduced.


Straw Plaiter
Youth Team Sub


Oct 9, 2019, 1:54 PM

Posts: 115
Location: Luton
Team(s): Luton Town

Post #62 of 67 (805 views)
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Re: [New Forest] Old, untraceable FA Cup Teams [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I hope the following is of help.
Luton Town played Unity in December 1888 and the Luton Times said “The Unity F.C. (Messrs Tarn and Sons, Newington Causeway)"

Minerva, Vulcans and Clarence are on my website - Library, A to Z of Clubs. http://thestrawplaiters.com
Cheers

Brian


John Treleven
Qatar World Cup bid member!

Oct 9, 2019, 5:04 PM

Posts: 17337
Location: Jersey
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Post #63 of 67 (755 views)
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Re: [Straw Plaiter] Old, untraceable FA Cup Teams [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

1881 census - over 200 people are listed as living at the William Tarn & Co establishment at Newington Causeway.

Tarn's were linen drapers, silk mercers, boys’ and ladies’ outfitters, boot makers, carpet warehousemen, ironmongers, bedding, bedstead and general cabinet furniture manufacturers of 165-173 Newington Causeway, London SE17 (just north of the Elephant and Castle).

They were a department store employing a large number of staff, many of whom were accommodated in a hostel or in dormitories provided by their employer.

According to the 1881 census, all but one of the employees living in at Tarn's were bachelors or spinsters, the exception was the Assistant Housekeeper, who was a widow.

Such a mixture of unmarried males and females in their teens, twenties and thirties must have taken some policing.

William Tarn died in 1875, aged 58, leaving £500,000 (£50m now)


(This post was edited by John Treleven on Oct 9, 2019, 5:40 PM)


Jaundiced Hack
First Team Star

Oct 10, 2019, 8:18 PM

Posts: 1654
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Post #64 of 67 (495 views)
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Re: [John Treleven] Old, untraceable FA Cup Teams [In reply to] Can't Post or

Would love to see the website with the ground information which is mentioned at the start of this thread. When I helped James Wright with his FA Cup book years ago the FA archives were chaotic and my original idea of detailing every ground which had staged FA Cup football went west very quickly. Good stuff from all on this thread.


New Forest
Youth Team Sub


Oct 11, 2019, 9:43 AM

Posts: 108
Location: Aldershot
Team(s): Leyton then Waltham Forest now Walthamstow

Post #65 of 67 (365 views)
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Re: [Jaundiced Hack] Old, untraceable FA Cup Teams [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Would love to see the website with the ground information which is mentioned at the start of this thread. When I helped James Wright with his FA Cup book years ago the FA archives were chaotic and my original idea of detailing every ground which had staged FA Cup football went west very quickly. Good stuff from all on this thread.


As mentioned earlier this week. Most of this type of information can be gleaned from Charles Alcock's Football Annual. As it happens a copy of the first Annual dated 1871 is coming up for auction with Sportingold this coming Friday estimated £300-350.

I think the earliest in the British Library is 1873. They carried on for twenty years.


Canary
Youth Team Sub


Oct 11, 2019, 1:12 PM

Posts: 110
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Post #66 of 67 (302 views)
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Re: [New Forest] Old, untraceable FA Cup Teams [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

More than 20 years. I've got the 1899 annual which says '32nd year of publication'


Straw Plaiter
Youth Team Sub


Oct 11, 2019, 1:48 PM

Posts: 115
Location: Luton
Team(s): Luton Town

Post #67 of 67 (292 views)
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Re: [New Forest] Old, untraceable FA Cup Teams [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Ramblers

Hampstead and Highgate Express 14/10/1876 - match played “on the Ramblers new ground at Walthamstow” H.A. Swepstone plays - see below.

Sheffield Daily Telegraph 16/10/1876 (and other papers) covered the F.A. Cup tie between Pilgrims and Ramblers at Tottenham - the new ground of the former. It says “The Ramblers have not long been in existence.” “C.W. Alcock was umpire for both sides.”

ISDN 6/10/1883 says H. Albemarle Swepstone played for the Ramblers in 1876/77. Ramblers were an off-shoot of “the older established Pilgrims F.C..” The report continues - “The dissolution of the ‘Ramblers’ necessitated a change of colours for Mr Swepstone and in 1879-80 we find him playing for the Pilgrims.”

Fixtures announced by other clubs against Ramblers in October 1879 but all reports found are rugby. So it may be that the Ramblers changed codes for the 1879/80 season.
Cheers

Brian

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