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Home: Non-League Football Discussion: Restructuring Discussion:
Northern League fail in bid to run new Step 4 league

 

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ToroSRFC
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Apr 23, 2019, 8:04 PM

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Northern League fail in bid to run new Step 4 league Can't Post or Reply Privately

http://www.northernfootballleague.org/...n-new-step-4-league/


(This post was edited by ToroSRFC on Apr 23, 2019, 8:06 PM)


derekn
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Apr 23, 2019, 9:46 PM

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Re: [ToroSRFC] Northern League fail in bid to run new Step 4 league [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


Quote
The FA today informed the league that it has been unsuccessful in its application to run the new Step 4 league from the 2020/21 season.

Glenn Youngman, chairman of the Ebac Northern League, said:

ďThis is hugely disappointing news for the league and our clubs.

ďWe believe the decision will have far-reaching consequences for non-league football in the region.

ďWe will obviously need to discuss the implications of the decision.Ē


Empire not being built, then.


genesimmons
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Apr 24, 2019, 6:09 AM

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Re: [derekn] Northern League fail in bid to run new Step 4 league [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I dont see how the decision will have far reaching consequences for football in the region. The league above will still get clubs from the region every season and cover a area set by the fa. Wonder of the northern league thought that if they ran the league it would essentially be there 1st division moved up a level. The decession is no shock at all. Its fair to say the league has had a strained relationship with the fa and wider pyramid for years, been against promotion and joined the pyramid way too late



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Terrierdave
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Apr 24, 2019, 8:50 AM

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Re: [genesimmons] Northern League fail in bid to run new Step 4 league [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Agreed, I really don't see what the League's gripe is about the far reaching consequences, the geographical coverage of the division and participating clubs will be the same regardless of who is administrating it. And the FA determine club movements anyway! Smacks of sour grapes.


ladderman
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Apr 24, 2019, 10:32 AM

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Re: [Terrierdave] Northern League fail in bid to run new Step 4 league [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

It can't come as a shock that the FA didn't give the new division to a league that has constantly criticised them. That's generally how it works in the real world
It's a bit pompous to claim that football in the NE will be damaged because a certain group of people aren't in control.
But does it matter, anyway? Leagues (below the Conference, anyway) have very little power any more, and when you get to a level where it's voluntary I question why people even bother. Leagues don't get to decide the size of their divisions, how many divisions they have, promotion, relegation or even where their league sits geographically. The things they do control (league cup etc) are of such little relevance that I wonder why anyone bothers filling roles at the likes of the Northern League any more.
The FA want to control everything, perhaps they'd like to get on a do the dirty work, as well.


Dazzla84
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Re: [ladderman] Northern League fail in bid to run new Step 4 league [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Not really a shock, the FA have awarded the new Step 4 league to the NPL



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kivo
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Apr 24, 2019, 6:15 PM

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Re: [Dazzla84] Northern League fail in bid to run new Step 4 league [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Northern League should have been one of four leagues having one Step 3 division and two Step 4 divisions - the others obviously being the Isthmian League, Southern League and Northern Premier League (which would be renamed Central League). Then a new North-Eastern League to cater for Steps 5 & 6.

Instead we'll have three leagues running 12 divisions, which is no good for people obsessed with symmetry like myself...

- Northern Premier League - 1-3
- Isthmian League - 1-3
- Southern League - 2-2

Just doesn't make sense.


(This post was edited by kivo on Apr 24, 2019, 6:15 PM)


ARNOLD241
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Apr 24, 2019, 7:42 PM

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Re: [kivo] Northern League fail in bid to run new Step 4 league [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Northern League should have been one of four leagues having one Step 3 division and two Step 4 divisions - the others obviously being the Isthmian League, Southern League and Northern Premier League (which would be renamed Central League). Then a new North-Eastern League to cater for Steps 5 & 6.

Instead we'll have three leagues running 12 divisions, which is no good for people obsessed with symmetry like myself...

- Northern Premier League - 1-3
- Isthmian League - 1-3
- Southern League - 2-2

Just doesn't make sense.


There might be a fourth organisation involved, in time.
You've always liked the idea of the Northern League's divisions being 'promoted' to Steps 3 and 4. Is that based on the quality of the football you've seen in that league or your symmetry obsession?


(This post was edited by ARNOLD241 on Apr 24, 2019, 7:56 PM)


genesimmons
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Re: [ARNOLD241] Northern League fail in bid to run new Step 4 league [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

What i reckon will happen is that the evostick will retain east and west in the north except the divisions particulary the east wont go as far south and each division will promote 2 teams. Im presumeing the 3rd division they will run will be central (chesterfield to say birmingham) and will feed in the southern premier central along with a division going from bedfordshire to the south midlands. Surely you cant have 3 divisions feeding into the northern premier or you would not get 2 teams been promoted and still have this inter league play off twaddle



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dcuk
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Re: [genesimmons] Northern League fail in bid to run new Step 4 league [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Surely you cant have 3 divisions feeding into the northern premier or you would not get 2 teams been promoted and still have this inter league play off twaddle


You won't have 3 divisions feeding into the Northern Premier. You'll simply have 8 Step 4 divisions feeding into 4 Step 3 divisions.


oftenscore6
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Re: [ARNOLD241] Northern League fail in bid to run new Step 4 league [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Northern League should have been one of four leagues having one Step 3 division and two Step 4 divisions - the others obviously being the Isthmian League, Southern League and Northern Premier League (which would be renamed Central League). Then a new North-Eastern League to cater for Steps 5 & 6.

Instead we'll have three leagues running 12 divisions, which is no good for people obsessed with symmetry like myself...

- Northern Premier League - 1-3
- Isthmian League - 1-3
- Southern League - 2-2

Just doesn't make sense.


There might be a fourth organisation involved, in time.
You've always liked the idea of the Northern League's divisions being 'promoted' to Steps 3 and 4. Is that based on the quality of the football you've seen in that league or your symmetry obsession?

If I read the plans for step 7 in the NLP the other week correctly, it would align on county lines. Which would make redundant a certain multi-county step 7 league. Whilst needing a new step 3/4 organisation covering an area which could be easily be called Central/Midlands League...



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PaulC
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Apr 25, 2019, 11:49 AM

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Re: [kivo] Northern League fail in bid to run new Step 4 league [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Northern League should have been one of four leagues having one Step 3 division and two Step 4 divisions - the others obviously being the Isthmian League, Southern League and Northern Premier League (which would be renamed Central League)..


I just don't understand this argument.

The Northern League footprint has a population of around 3 million.

England has a population of 55 million. The average population of a Step 4 division is around 14 million. 3 million is ridiculously to small.

The population footprint of the NL matches the average for a Step 5 league.


kivo
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Apr 25, 2019, 12:45 PM

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Re: [PaulC] Northern League fail in bid to run new Step 4 league [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Then change the footprint to have the Northern League cover the northern quarter of England (roughly north of the line between Chester and Lincoln) at Step 3 & 4 as opposed to the North-East region at Step 5 & 6.

Renamed NPL (Central League?) would then cover the 'square' between Chester, Lincoln, Cambridge and Gloucester

Southern League and Isthmian League to cover the south-west and south-east of England respectively.


Cris
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Apr 25, 2019, 1:15 PM

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Re: [kivo] Northern League fail in bid to run new Step 4 league [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Then change the footprint to have the Northern League cover the northern quarter of England (roughly north of the line between Chester and Lincoln) at Step 3 & 4 as opposed to the North-East region at Step 5 & 6.

Renamed NPL (Central League?) would then cover the 'square' between Chester, Lincoln, Cambridge and Gloucester

Southern League and Isthmian League to cover the south-west and south-east of England respectively.


Why? What overwhelming administrative qualities do you think the NL bring to the table to justify entirely moving the NPL footprint and disrupt 100 odd clubs in the process?

I donít see much logic in handing step 3/4 divisions to leagues that donít have experience running leagues at those levels, however if it was going to a step 5 league, it would surely make more sense for the MFL to do it from a geographical point of view.

Giving leagues out to the IL, NPL and SL maybe isnít very symmetrical, but itís less risky than setting up a whole new structure or handing the administration to leagues that donít have the experience of running leagues at that level or with that geographical spread, particularly when everything is in flux.

Ideally for me once everything has settled down a central league step 3/4 structure may emerge, but only if thereís a desire from clubs to do it.


(This post was edited by Cris on Apr 25, 2019, 2:59 PM)


PaulC
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Apr 25, 2019, 3:02 PM

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Re: [kivo] Northern League fail in bid to run new Step 4 league [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The Isthmian and Southern Leagues now administer 4 divisions each at Steps 3/4.

Commonsense suggests the 12th division should be administered by the NPL.


keneastlancs
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In Reply To
The Isthmian and Southern Leagues now administer 4 divisions each at Steps 3/4.

Commonsense suggests the 12th division should be administered by the NPL.


Will all this not just be a temporary arrangement anyway? and eventually 1 step 3 league and 2 step 4 leagues will be administered perhaps by a new entity - the midlands central midland premier and the midland central midland divions 1 midlands and the midlands central midlands divions 1 central perhaps?


kivo
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Apr 25, 2019, 5:02 PM

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Re: [Cris] Northern League fail in bid to run new Step 4 league [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

Why? What overwhelming administrative qualities do you think the NL bring to the table to justify entirely moving the NPL footprint and disrupt 100 odd clubs in the process?

I donít see much logic in handing step 3/4 divisions to leagues that donít have experience running leagues at those levels, however if it was going to a step 5 league, it would surely make more sense for the MFL to do it from a geographical point of view.

Giving leagues out to the IL, NPL and SL maybe isnít very symmetrical, but itís less risky than setting up a whole new structure or handing the administration to leagues that donít have the experience of running leagues at that level or with that geographical spread, particularly when everything is in flux.

Ideally for me once everything has settled down a central league step 3/4 structure may emerge, but only if thereís a desire from clubs to do it.

Honestly? It's nothing to do with how well the Northern League could run Step 3 and 4 divisions - I just think the name fits. The Southern League sits at Steps 3&4 yet the Northern League sits at Steps 5&6. Just looks odd.

I suppose a similar argument could be made for the Midland League stepping up to Step 3&4 too. Then the NPL ditches the 'Premier' bit and the Northern League renames as North-Eastern League.

Things like this bother me too much...


shimtoan
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Apr 25, 2019, 6:36 PM

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Re: [kivo] Northern League fail in bid to run new Step 4 league [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

if they hadn't have been so isolationist in the 80s, the Northern would've been at the same level as the Southern. At least for a time.



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marinersteve
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Re: [shimtoan] Northern League fail in bid to run new Step 4 league [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The decision is the right one. A step 3/4 league should administer the new step 4 division. Those of us following ENL teams over the last many years (many of us anyway) can't see what the NL chairman is talking about. Total nonsense to suggest that the NPL running a central division has any consequences at all for football in the north east. trouble is the NL hierarchy going back 30+ years has always considered itself superior and more valuable than any other league, its member clubs, the FA, the world in general. It isnt - it's purely a vehicle for managing a set of fixtures..



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Unicorn
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Re: [keneastlancs] Northern League fail in bid to run new Step 4 league [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
The Isthmian and Southern Leagues now administer 4 divisions each at Steps 3/4.

Commonsense suggests the 12th division should be administered by the NPL.


Will all this not just be a temporary arrangement anyway? and eventually 1 step 3 league and 2 step 4 leagues will be administered perhaps by a new entity - the midlands central midland premier and the midland central midland divions 1 midlands and the midlands central midlands divions 1 central perhaps?


I can not see it changing.
Isthmian league and Southern league will not give up what they have and will not even be asked to.
NPL will get the eighth step 4 division.


Jimbo
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Apr 25, 2019, 7:57 PM

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Re: [marinersteve] Northern League fail in bid to run new Step 4 league [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Total nonsense to suggest that the NPL running a central division has any consequences at all for football in the north east. trouble is the NL hierarchy going back 30+ years has always considered itself superior and more valuable than any other league, its member clubs, the FA, the world in general. It isnt - it's purely a vehicle for managing a set of fixtures.


Precisely this. The haughty attitude of the league has always mystified me. Watching the FA put it in its place, as it has done over the past couple of seasons, is very satisfying.


leohoenig
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Re: [Jimbo] Northern League fail in bid to run new Step 4 league [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The decision of who runs the new league has no consequences whatsoever for the teams in the division below
Whether the league is operated by the Northern League or the Northern Premier, it would have the same teams in it, resulting in the same losses from Steps 5/6.
The only difference is that it is empire A rather than empire B
If the Northern League wants to expand its empire, it could always apply to run an additional Step 5 league



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alderman friend
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Apr 26, 2019, 10:40 AM

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Re: [leohoenig] Northern League fail in bid to run new Step 4 league [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I am sure the northern league would have made a good job of running the new step 4 league but I don't think there was ever a chance that the F A would not give it to the unibond to run.


Dazzla84
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Apr 26, 2019, 11:54 AM

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Re: [Jimbo] Northern League fail in bid to run new Step 4 league [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Quote
Total nonsense to suggest that the NPL running a central division has any consequences at all for football in the north east. trouble is the NL hierarchy going back 30+ years has always considered itself superior and more valuable than any other league, its member clubs, the FA, the world in general. It isnt - it's purely a vehicle for managing a set of fixtures.


Precisely this. The haughty attitude of the league has always mystified me. Watching the FA put it in its place, as it has done over the past couple of seasons, is very satisfying.


Mike Amos, the previous league chairman, is mostly to blame IMO, the bad rep of the NL was mainly down to his attitude towards the FA. There was a period of TEN years when the Northern league failed to promote a single club, even in 2003-04 when mass promotions were needed in order to create what is now Step 2. And its obvious the FA have not forgotten that.

As for the "consequences", well the only one I can think of is that the best of the first division will be able to progress in the pyramid without being held back. In the next few years, I expect the likes of Bishop Auckland, Consett, Shildon and Hebburn Town to make the step up further populating the NPL with more Northern clubs. This in a way is going to go some way to repair the damage done in the previous three decades.

The list below says it all, only NINE clubs in 30 years promoted from the Northern to the NPL, Spennymmor United in 92-93 not included as they had switched to the Northern Counties East League

CLUBS PROMOTED FROM NORTHERN LEAGUE TO NPL SINCE 1988

1988-89: Bishop Auckland & Whitley Bay
1993-94: Blyth Spartans
1996-97: Whitby Town
------------ (Phase 1 - Creation of Conference North & South) ------------
2003-04: --- No promotees, mass promotions from NCE and NWC to make up shortfall
----------- (Phase 2 - Regionalisation of NPL Division 1) ------------
2006-07: Newcastle Blue Star
2007-08: Durham City
2012-13: Darlington
2013-14: Spennymoor Town
2016:17: South Shields
------------ (Phase 3 - New Step 3 and New Step 4 Leagues) ------------
2017-18: Marske United & Morpeth Town (Shildon missed out on PPG)
2018-19: Dunston UTS
------------ (Phase 4 - New NPL run Step 4 League) ------------
2019-20: --- Top three to be promoted ---



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(This post was edited by Dazzla84 on Apr 26, 2019, 12:46 PM)


Dazzla84
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Re: [Dazzla84] Northern League fail in bid to run new Step 4 league [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

And looking at it, next season is already beginning to look a lot healthier for North East clubs in terms of numbers at each step, certainly more than it was say 3-4 years ago

2019-20 SEASON

STEP 1: **Harrogate Town, Gateshead, Hartlepool United
STEP 2: **Spennymoor Town, **Blyth Spartans, York City, Darlington
STEP 3: ** South Shields, Scarborough Athletic, Whitby Town, Morpeth Town
STEP 4: Marske United, Pickering Town, Dunston UTS

** Possibility of being promoted to the next step up

Compared to the beginning of the 2015-16 season especially

STEP 1: Gateshead
STEP 2: Harrogate Town, Darlington
STEP 3: Blyth Spartans, Whitby Town
STEP 4: Spennymoor Town, Scarborough Athletic, Harrogate Railway Athletic



CLARET AND BLUE PIXELS: http://claretandbluepixels.wordpress.com

My blog for Talk on Non-League Football, South Shields FC and Video Games, yep a weird combination

(This post was edited by Dazzla84 on Apr 26, 2019, 12:48 PM)

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