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Home: Non-League Football Discussion: Restructuring Discussion:
Ground Grading, Who Passed and Who Failed

 

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Westbrookewing
Junior Team Sub

Apr 10, 2019, 11:34 AM

Posts: 17
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Post #26 of 39 (8255 views)
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Re: [shimtoan] Ground Grading, Who Passed and Who Failed [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I would imagine this definition would turn a lot of towns into villages. Welling has a population of 41,000 but has never had a town or market charter.

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Lionarm
Youth Team Regular

Apr 10, 2019, 12:53 PM

Posts: 225
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Post #27 of 39 (8066 views)
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Re: [Westbrookewing] Ground Grading, Who Passed and Who Failed [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Where does it leave Dulwich Hamlet?


leohoenig
Administrator

Apr 10, 2019, 1:29 PM

Posts: 13537
Location: Outer Cheltenhamshire
Team(s): Cheltenham Town

Post #28 of 39 (7989 views)
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Re: [Lionarm] Ground Grading, Who Passed and Who Failed [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Where does it leave Dulwich Hamlet?




Number Six: Where am I?
Number Two (not identified as yet): In the village.
Six: What do you want?
Two: Information.
Six: Whose side are you on?
Two: That would be telling. We want information...information... information!!!
Six: You won't get it!
Two: By hook or by crook, we will.
Six: Who are you?
Two: The new Number Two.
Six: Who is Number One?
Two: You are Number Six.
Six (running on the Village's beach): I am not a number; I am a free man!!!
Two: [Laughter]



Fat AND Pompous.
The proof that you can have too much of a good thing
Now blogging at http://www.leohoenig.com



chienmort
First Team Sub


Apr 20, 2019, 6:48 PM

Posts: 1088
Location: Poole
Team(s): Poole Town FC, Queens Park RANGERS.

Post #29 of 39 (6415 views)
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Re: [leohoenig] Ground Grading, Who Passed and Who Failed [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Apparently the FA has “extended” the deadline from 31st March. You could say that this is common sense. So many teams were promoted to form the extra Step 3 league that some were bound to struggle.

Does anyone know how this affects the play-offs? Would the National League let a team into the NLS or NLM if they did not have the grading for the Step below?



Poole Town FC - les couilles du chien


Gladstone
Youth Team Star

Apr 20, 2019, 8:54 PM

Posts: 297
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Post #30 of 39 (6192 views)
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Re: [shimtoan] Ground Grading, Who Passed and Who Failed [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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It's all to do with how we historically class hamlets, villages, towns, and cities.
A city has a Letters Patent allowing it be be called such. Population range - 1,481 (St Davids) to 1.1m (Birmingham).A town has either a Town Charter or Market Charter, but no Letters Patent. Population range - 850 (Llanwrtyd) to 215k (Northampton)
A village has a church, but no Charter or Letters Patent. Highest population is 19,000 (Lancing)
A hamlet has none of the above.


Hmm.

I can think of smaller towns than Llanwrtyd Wells: Inveraray, population 603 for instance, which was moreover created a Royal Burgh in 1648. It most certainly had a burgh charter.

And conversely Street, which incidentally describes itself as the largest village in England, has a population of 48000+ and has no charter. It also has parish status for local government purposes: its council is a parish council, not a town council, and it has no Town Hall nor Mayor.



Gladstone


swjoduk
Reserve Team Star

Apr 20, 2019, 11:15 PM

Posts: 735
Location: Bridgwater
Team(s): Taunton Town, Exeter City, Swindon Town, Westcountry football as a whole

Post #31 of 39 (5932 views)
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Re: [Gladstone] Ground Grading, Who Passed and Who Failed [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Street, 48k????

More like 14k tops


AndyE
First Team Star

Apr 21, 2019, 2:46 PM

Posts: 2386
Location: Rochester
Team(s): Chatham Town

Post #32 of 39 (5430 views)
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Re: [swjoduk] Ground Grading, Who Passed and Who Failed [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

By now, any Parish Council which passes a resolution to call itself a Town Council is one. Some faster growing parishes have declared themselves to be towns because it sounds flash, while some longstanding larger villages are determined not to be towns for sentimental reasons. The Chairman of a Town Council is styled Town Mayor. Only boroughs and cities are really supposed to use the word Mayor on its own, although some Town Mayors do it even so.

The largest village in England is Ecclesfield in the suburbs of Sheffield. It had a population of 32,063 at the last census, but continues to have a Parish Council under that name. Its status is slightly odd because the village forms part of the City of Sheffield. As mentioned above, Lancing in West Sussex is the largest standalone village, with a census population of 18,810. Farnham in Surrey had a census population of 39,488, and insisted that it was a village rather than a town until 1984. Street in Somerset still declares itself a village, but isn't as big as Lancing. The smallest town is usually said to be Fordwich in Kent; it uses the name Town Council and has a Town Mayor even though its census population was 381.

Leaving aside the City of London which is a special case for a dozen reasons, England's smallest city is Wells in Somerset (census population 10,536). The largest town which is not a city depends how you count. One could argue for and against any or all of Bournemouth, Croydon, Dudley, Luton, Medway Towns, Milton Keynes, or Northampton.


chienmort
First Team Sub


Apr 27, 2019, 12:27 PM

Posts: 1088
Location: Poole
Team(s): Poole Town FC, Queens Park RANGERS.

Post #33 of 39 (4179 views)
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Re: [AndyE] Ground Grading, Who Passed and Who Failed [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
By now, any Parish Council which passes a resolution to call itself a Town Council is one. Some faster growing parishes have declared themselves to be towns because it sounds flash, while some longstanding larger villages are determined not to be towns for sentimental reasons. The Chairman of a Town Council is styled Town Mayor. Only boroughs and cities are really supposed to use the word Mayor on its own, although some Town Mayors do it even so.

The largest village in England is Ecclesfield in the suburbs of Sheffield. It had a population of 32,063 at the last census, but continues to have a Parish Council under that name. Its status is slightly odd because the village forms part of the City of Sheffield. As mentioned above, Lancing in West Sussex is the largest standalone village, with a census population of 18,810. Farnham in Surrey had a census population of 39,488, and insisted that it was a village rather than a town until 1984. Street in Somerset still declares itself a village, but isn't as big as Lancing. The smallest town is usually said to be Fordwich in Kent; it uses the name Town Council and has a Town Mayor even though its census population was 381.

Leaving aside the City of London which is a special case for a dozen reasons, England's smallest city is Wells in Somerset (census population 10,536). The largest town which is not a city depends how you count. One could argue for and against any or all of Bournemouth, Croydon, Dudley, Luton, Medway Towns, Milton Keynes, or Northampton.

As Bournemouth, Poole and Christchurch are now one with a combined population in Excess of 300,000 does that count? Poole and Bournemouth each have over 140,000



Poole Town FC - les couilles du chien


AndyE
First Team Star

Apr 29, 2019, 11:34 AM

Posts: 2386
Location: Rochester
Team(s): Chatham Town

Post #34 of 39 (2962 views)
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Re: [chienmort] Ground Grading, Who Passed and Who Failed [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Bournemouth is one of the places which can argue a case for being the largest town, certainly. The largest town depends on whether you count the built up area, the local government boundary (and if so, which one), and whether being in practice a suburb of a larger city disqualifies. (eg Croydon is part of London, much as Croydonians might not like admitting it.)

The new Bournemouth Christchurch Poole includes some villages which are not part of the continuous built up area, while the continuous built up area extends a bit east of Christchurch into Hampshire. (The only "field" between Highcliffe which is in BCP and Barton on Sea which is in Hampshire is a golf course, and golf courses are considered to be "built up" rather than "countryside".)

Depending on how you choose to treat such matters, it is possible to claim at least seven places as being the "largest town" - and it's inevitably a bit arbiitrary if we try to claim any of them as the one answer to the question.


shimtoan
First Team Regular


Apr 29, 2019, 1:24 PM

Posts: 1366
Location: Dunkirk, Nottingham
Team(s): Dunkirk

Post #35 of 39 (2721 views)
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Re: [AndyE] Ground Grading, Who Passed and Who Failed [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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(eg Croydon is part of London, much as Croydonians might not like admitting it.)

Croydon isn't part of London. London is a small city. Croydon is a town, although the name also refers to it's borough, within the London urban area.

Croydon is in the county of Greater London, something London isn't.



unless stated, all views are my own and are not the views of any other person, club, or organisation


ictoan
First Team Regular


Apr 29, 2019, 2:48 PM

Posts: 1205
Location: By the Sea, Sussex
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Post #36 of 39 (2532 views)
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Re: [shimtoan] Ground Grading, Who Passed and Who Failed [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Isn't Hillingdon larger than Croydon?



There 'Ant no place like Sussex, until you goes above, 'Cause Sussex will be Sussex and Sussex wunt be druv.

The North begins at Gatwick.


shimtoan
First Team Regular


Apr 29, 2019, 3:03 PM

Posts: 1366
Location: Dunkirk, Nottingham
Team(s): Dunkirk

Post #37 of 39 (2497 views)
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Re: [ictoan] Ground Grading, Who Passed and Who Failed [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Isn't Hillingdon larger than Croydon?

By area, Hillingdon Borough is larger than Croydon Borough.

By population, Croydon is the larger town and larger borough.



unless stated, all views are my own and are not the views of any other person, club, or organisation


ictoan
First Team Regular


Apr 29, 2019, 3:22 PM

Posts: 1205
Location: By the Sea, Sussex
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Post #38 of 39 (2450 views)
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Re: [shimtoan] Ground Grading, Who Passed and Who Failed [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Thank you for that. It seems to rest on a matter of semantics.
eg Russia is the ninth largest country in the world by population.Wink



There 'Ant no place like Sussex, until you goes above, 'Cause Sussex will be Sussex and Sussex wunt be druv.

The North begins at Gatwick.


chienmort
First Team Sub


Apr 30, 2019, 11:07 AM

Posts: 1088
Location: Poole
Team(s): Poole Town FC, Queens Park RANGERS.

Post #39 of 39 (1831 views)
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Re: [AndyE] Ground Grading, Who Passed and Who Failed [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Bournemouth is one of the places which can argue a case for being the largest town, certainly. The largest town depends on whether you count the built up area, the local government boundary (and if so, which one), and whether being in practice a suburb of a larger city disqualifies. (eg Croydon is part of London, much as Croydonians might not like admitting it.)

The new Bournemouth Christchurch Poole includes some villages which are not part of the continuous built up area, while the continuous built up area extends a bit east of Christchurch into Hampshire. (The only "field" between Highcliffe which is in BCP and Barton on Sea which is in Hampshire is a golf course, and golf courses are considered to be "built up" rather than "countryside".)

Depending on how you choose to treat such matters, it is possible to claim at least seven places as being the "largest town" - and it's inevitably a bit arbiitrary if we try to claim any of them as the one answer to the question.

But Poole, Bournemouth and Christchurch are a conurbation in the real sense of the word, ignoring the villages, that is over 300,000 at the last census and it really is contiguous. Of course this of us in Poole or Christchurch get hacked off with Bournemouth as they claimed everything in the area well before the council merger.
Anyway shall we get back on track?



Poole Town FC - les couilles du chien

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