Non League Matters - The Continuation of Tonys english Football Site 



  Main Index MAIN
INDEX
Search Posts SEARCH
POSTS
Who's Online WHO'S
ONLINE
Log in LOG
IN

Home: Non Football Related: General Chat:
EU Withdrawal Negotiations

 

First page Previous page 1 ... 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 Next page Last page  View All


Ronsdog
First Team Star


Nov 30, 2018, 10:18 AM

Posts: 2375
Location: Sarf London
Team(s): Lowestoft Town, Crystal Palace

Post #2001 of 2140 (2269 views)
Shortcut
Re: [PaulC] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Maths never was your strong point Mr C but to suggest that the SNP is the second largest party in parliament stretches even your credulity.


What I actually said, as opposed to what you claim I said, is correct.

The SNP is the UK's second largest political party.



In Reply To
As for further debates.....not necessary.....leave without a deal and suffer the consequences. When we threaten that watch the EU react.


No need to watch the EU react. Just watch the UK react as something opposed by the majority hits home.

"Leaving the European Union without a divorce deal could plunge Britain into its deepest recession in nearly a century, with the economy shrinking 8 percent within months as unemployment and inflation soar, the Bank of England warned Wednesday."

Some people will go to any extreme, regardless of the damage done to the country, in order to achieve their il-thought out goals.




Firstly I must apologise Mr C, I completely misinterpreted your point that that the SNP are the second largest party in parliament. You're quite right in your assertion that in terms of membership they are. However not seats which represents voting power.

But you still blithely accept the economic nonsense that the Remain camp continue to spout.
The forecasts or rather ' worst case scenarios' are out and the headlines are in and you and the country swallows them whole.

Brexit will be an economic catastrophe – worse than the recession we didn’t have after the referendum. Hmm!

It’s encouraging to see the newspapers talking about the economic cost of government policy.
If only they’d done so on the question of joining the EU in the first place by accepting various treaties that were never put to the British people. Or the Iraq war, the ERM, or selling Britain’s gold.

But it’s not, at least not by the media’s mathematical standards.
The fraud is in the details. It’s a favourite factoid technique of the journos and their accomplices, the economists.

By calculating how much lower GDP growth will be each year under Brexit, the headline writers can write something that looks far more horrific than it really is.
A 10% wipe off of GDP over 15 years is really just a tiny amount of lower economic growth each year. It doesn’t even have to include a recession, necessarily…

Never forget, central bankers are better at causing recessions than predicting them.

Ironically, a recession or two is likely to happen during those 15 years anyway, no matter what. But the economists don’t take that particular eventuality, or reality, into account in their models…

The point being, if you look far enough into the future, according to economists, Brexit would crush 99% of UK GDP. That doesn’t mean the economy won’t exist, as the journalists would like you to believe after reading their headlines. It means our economy will be a little smaller than it otherwise would have been. It will grow less, NOT SHRINK!

The way the media communicates these figures allows for some wonderful PR management. Economists only have to assume Brexit will be very moderately bad and they still get impressive results – huge chunks of GDP gone missing over very long periods of time.
A small adjustment to the rate of growth delivers all sorts of results over long enough periods of time. Our economy might grow a thousand per cent in coming decades, but as long as it grows slightly less under Brexit, that’s all that matters in the headline.

How our economy performs in a no-deal scenario depends on what policies the UK government puts in place. Sensible policy could generate more economic growth than EU membership ever did. And the ability to implement sensible policy was the whole point of Brexit in the first place.

Personally, I think the UK government is likely to run the country marginally better than the EU runs itself. So it’s a matter of time until Brexit’s increased UK economic growth makes Brexit an economically wise decision.

The question should be how long it takes us to recover from the initial shock, if there even is one. And that is up to the speed of our reforms – how quickly we can get rid of bad EU laws.

Not that anyone has said a single thing about what sensible policy might actually be for the UK… You know, the sort of thing governments are supposed to do. Perhaps they’ve forgotten how after so many years in the EU…

Which begs the question, what is the Bank of England and Treasury forecasting? If they’re forecasting government policy to continue as it has been, they’re predicting a future with EU policy, but outside the EU. Even I can agree that’s disastrous.

If the government laid out a pro-growth economic policy going forward under a no-deal scenario – the sort of low regulatory, low tax future that makes the EU quiver in fear – then the economists would be stuck forecasting a prosperous future outside the EU instead.

How embarrassing that would be. It’d show the cost of following EU policy and the benefit of being able to abandon that policy.

But because the EU doesn’t want a Singaporean economic growth miracle on its doorstop, our prime minister has ensured our future is vague enough to be miserable to an economics model.
If you take a closer look at the economic modelling used by the media darlings, you begin to notice something. The economic shocks of a no-deal Brexit are entirely down to government policy, not Brexit in and of itself.

The Financial Times explains that “the projected 3.9 per cent hit to the economy would be caused by trade barriers hitting goods and services, with a large component coming from the reduction in migration.”

In other words, if governments don’t implement trade barriers and decide on a sensible immigration policy, there won’t be lost growth. They could even increase growth with good policy.

All the politicians have to do is govern the country and the EU properly. A shocking idea, I know.

But this is the nature of the political game over Brexit. It’s a disaster because the politicians need it to be a disaster. They don’t want Brexit to be successful, so they won’t allow it to be. They’d rather have truck queues on the M25 and flights grounded. As long as nobody realises this would be their responsibility.

There’s another underlying reason today’s GDP stories are so misleading.

To the extent that Brexit was about cutting immigration, it was always going to reduce GDP anyway. Less people means less GDP.

Parading a reduction in GDP after an immigration cut is not a victory for Remainers. It’s common sense – basic arithmetic. Especially over long periods of time.

The relevant question is GDP per capita. Is the typical Briton better off? Good luck finding a headline on that though…

Then again, perhaps it’s not so simple. If the UK targets its immigration at productive people who generate a disproportionate amount of GDP, Brexit’s new immigration policy could increase UK GDP, especially per capita.

That’s how the Australians escaped a recession in 2008. They just stole the world’s productive people by having good immigration policy. On a per capita basis, Australians had a recession. But the amount of immigrants pushed up national GDP.

Similarly with the U.K. Immigration that is people movements from Europe, not workers, is down but productive immigration from the rest of the world continues apace; and for the past two quarters Britains growth has outstripped that of the Eurozone. But you will not see that reported because it doesn't suit the remainers arguments.

The EU’s posterchild of success is pretty much living through the Brexit we’re being warned about. Greece’s banking crisis and bailout needs are back in the news. Only months ago, the EU declared the place “fixed” by EU ideology.
But Greece is a sideshow. When Italy defaults, the shock waves will be felt throughout Europe and beyond.


(This post was edited by Ronsdog on Nov 30, 2018, 10:47 AM)


jon b
First Team Star

Nov 30, 2018, 11:38 AM

Posts: 2595
Location: Dronfield
Team(s): SUFC, SWFC etc

Post #2002 of 2140 (2223 views)
Shortcut
Re: [PaulC] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
“No 10 is in freefall Levels of ineptitude and incompetence are beyond staggering leaving most MPs in despair The PMs main advisor has reportedly never had a job in the real world, wrote a book on how to win a marginal seat - and then lost it. Lunatics have taken over the asylum.”

Nadine Dorries, Tory MP


You know you're deep in doo-doo when Mad Nad thinks you're a sandwich short of a picnic.

.


jon b
First Team Star

Nov 30, 2018, 12:39 PM

Posts: 2595
Location: Dronfield
Team(s): SUFC, SWFC etc

Post #2003 of 2140 (2182 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Ronsdog] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

You make a number of interesting points.

Unfortunately, the unknown element is what the EU will do in the event of us ditching Mrs May's deal. The other 27 member states have to date shown a united front which has enabled the EU to adopt a tough stance in negotiations.

As in all divorces, although it may be best for the two parties to separate as smoothly and painlessly as possible - Ms Paltrow"s "conscious uncoupling" - all too often the actuality is anything but amicable or reasonable. And drags on for decades.

I can remember how desperate we were in the 1960s and early 1970s to become part of the single market and customs union. The argument was that we would otherwise suffer significantly from EU tariffs on our exports.

That still holds true.

Once we leave the EU we become a trading competitor to the 27 member states. They will act accordingly.

If we threaten to withhold the £39 Billion Mrs May has agreed that we will pay the EU to meet existing commitments, it is possible that it will bring about concessions from the EU. On the other hand it might bring about a complete stand off and crisis that sends the financial markets into a panic.

One element of the current situation that really does frighten me, is listening to the MPs who will be deciding on the way forward, and realizing how economically illiterate and confused they are. Frown
.


(This post was edited by jon b on Nov 30, 2018, 1:15 PM)


northstandexile
First Team Regular

Nov 30, 2018, 3:29 PM

Posts: 1357
Location: Mansfield
Team(s): Mansfield Town

Post #2004 of 2140 (2124 views)
Shortcut
Re: [jon b] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Hi Ronsdog,

You said that we can get rid of bad EU Laws. Which Laws do you mean?


Ronsdog
First Team Star


Nov 30, 2018, 4:15 PM

Posts: 2375
Location: Sarf London
Team(s): Lowestoft Town, Crystal Palace

Post #2005 of 2140 (2103 views)
Shortcut
Re: [northstandexile] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Hi Ronsdog,

You said that we can get rid of bad EU Laws. Which Laws do you mean?


Restrictive practices within the Capital Directive Market, Procurement Processes and State Financial Aid sectors.

The Commission are also advocating interference within the Derivative and Secondary Banking Markets.

And those are just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to interference in the Financial Sector.

Other sectors include fishing , energy and manufacturing where over regulation imposes significant costs on companies operating in those areas.


(This post was edited by Ronsdog on Nov 30, 2018, 4:57 PM)


northstandexile
First Team Regular

Nov 30, 2018, 4:23 PM

Posts: 1357
Location: Mansfield
Team(s): Mansfield Town

Post #2006 of 2140 (2096 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Ronsdog] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Hi Ronsdog,

You said that we can get rid of bad EU Laws. Which Laws do you mean?


Restrictive practices within the Capital Directive Market, Procurement Processes and State Financial Aid sectors.

The Commission are also advocating interference within the Derivative and Secondary Banking Markets.

And those are just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to interference in the Financial Sector.



Why are these bad, and who benefits from these laws and who is affected badly by them.


Ronsdog
First Team Star


Nov 30, 2018, 5:16 PM

Posts: 2375
Location: Sarf London
Team(s): Lowestoft Town, Crystal Palace

Post #2007 of 2140 (2062 views)
Shortcut
Re: [northstandexile] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Hi Ronsdog,

You said that we can get rid of bad EU Laws. Which Laws do you mean?


Restrictive practices within the Capital Directive Market, Procurement Processes and State Financial Aid sectors.

The Commission are also advocating interference within the Derivative and Secondary Banking Markets.

And those are just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to interference in the Financial Sector.



Why are these bad, and who benefits from these laws and who is affected badly by them.


They increase the costs to producers and thereby we as consumers.
In the case of state aid/nationalisation it is specifically prohibited under certain circumstances.
I suggest you do your own research......you may be surprised if not shocked by how deep the commissions tentacles reach.


Matty
Reserve Team Star

Dec 3, 2018, 4:53 PM

Posts: 800
Location: Derbyshire
Team(s): All things Derbyshire

Post #2008 of 2140 (1641 views)
Shortcut
Re: [PaulC] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
It will certainly not be what i voted for but a second referendum cannot be allowed to take place under any circumstances.

LEAVE MEANS LEAVE!!



BWAHAHAHA! So if we are worse off as a result of no deal or a bad deal we should just act like lemmings and run over the cliff anyway.

Crazy!


Quote
Lemmings don't jump off cliffs, their hurdles get flooded and they think, stay here or take a chance, crown of have a chance of a swim.
It's not leave or remain now, a fudge, but not just with Brexit, discontent is growing with the EU
Reform drastically or die, the EUROPEAN could be good, but major reform, perhaps poking to restore sovereignty, rather than deny it?


PaulC
Man City Transfer Target!


Dec 4, 2018, 10:48 AM

Posts: 10596
Location: Ayrshire, Midlothian
Team(s): AFC Darwen, Troon, Ayr Utd, Burnley

Post #2009 of 2140 (1445 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Matty] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

"BREAKING: ECJ Advocate General Campos Sánchez-Bordona recommends court should find UK CAN unilaterally revoke Article 50

Case brought by various Scottish politicians"

BBC

So when May said there was no going back, she was wrong. We simply ask for our letter back.


Matty
Reserve Team Star

Dec 4, 2018, 12:09 PM

Posts: 800
Location: Derbyshire
Team(s): All things Derbyshire

Post #2010 of 2140 (1415 views)
Shortcut
Re: [PaulC] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
"BREAKING: ECJ Advocate General Campos Sánchez-Bordona recommends court should find UK CAN unilaterally revoke Article 50

Case brought by various Scottish politicians"

BBC

So when May said there was no going back, she was wrong. We simply ask for our letter back.

Does the letters from Brussels to Strasbourg go on ten times to the 27 to come up with a fudge
Btw in the main agree with you, vote was in or out
I've decided to finish with my girlfriend sorry not that simple, but we've split up sorry duck we haven't
You might be able to smile at someone but no touching
Your my wife now


(This post was edited by Matty on Dec 4, 2018, 12:12 PM)


007Dale
First Team Regular

Dec 7, 2018, 8:34 AM

Posts: 1398
Location:
Team(s): St Albans City, Leicester City

Post #2011 of 2140 (860 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Matty] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

In a further sign that Brexit has divided parties as well as parliament, the Lib Dem’s lost one of its 12 MP’s as Stephen Lloyd quits to vote for Theresa May’s deal.

Not sure it will quite help plug the gap for the PM. Surely she will have resigned before Christmas.


Matty
Reserve Team Star

Dec 7, 2018, 9:23 AM

Posts: 800
Location: Derbyshire
Team(s): All things Derbyshire

Post #2012 of 2140 (833 views)
Shortcut
Re: [007Dale] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
In a further sign that Brexit has divided parties as well as parliament, the Lib Dem’s lost one of its 12 MP’s as Stephen Lloyd quits to vote for Theresa May’s deal.

Not sure it will quite help plug the gap for the PM. Surely she will have resigned before Christmas.

Brexit has split me in half, can't stop arguing with myself, may just resign


(This post was edited by Matty on Dec 7, 2018, 9:24 AM)


paulh66
Qatar World Cup bid member!


Dec 7, 2018, 9:27 AM

Posts: 17760
Location: Surrey
Team(s): Tranmere Rovers, South Liverpool (the South will rise again), Cammell Laird

Post #2013 of 2140 (824 views)
Shortcut
Re: [007Dale] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

In a nutshell:
British public mandates May to negotiate Brexit
May negotiates arguably the best deal possible (who knows whether it is or not, but nobody has come up with an accepted better alternative)
Politicians seek to stymie best deal possible
May ends up as toast for fulfilling the mandate
Likely end result - British public reverses its mandate

How ironic. And proof, if ever it were needed, of the sheer folly of running a country by referendum.


mick
Chelsea Transfer Target


Dec 7, 2018, 3:46 PM

Posts: 4421
Location:
Team(s):

Post #2014 of 2140 (704 views)
Shortcut
Re: [paulh66] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
In a nutshell:
British public mandates May to negotiate Brexit
May negotiates arguably the best deal possible (who knows whether it is or not, but nobody has come up with an accepted better alternative)
Politicians seek to stymie best deal possible
May ends up as toast for fulfilling the mandate


Not quite:

British public mandates the government to leave the EU, not necessarily by negotiation.

Cameron resigns and is replaced by May without an election of any sort, not even by a handful of Tory MPs.

May calls a general election to endorse her handling of Brexit negotiations and the Tory majority is reduced, only clinging on due to a swing in their favour in Scotland and a deal with the DUP.

May negotiates a deal which even her chief Brexit negotiators say is not the best possible outcome (although it might be the best deal possible).

Politicians, and others, argue that the 'best negotiated deal possible ' could be improved, some even say how, but there is no consensus. Some argue that the 'best deal' is actually worse than exit with no deal. Many factions demand a say before it is fully signed off.

May argues she has fulfilled the mandate, but how many people who voted to leave consider the deal she has negotiated to be an appropriate fulfilment of what they voted for, nobody knows.

>>>>>>>>>>
I also notice that the loud voices on here who continually shouted that we could trust the government to deliver what "the people" wanted on Brexit have gone very quiet in recent weeks !


(This post was edited by mick on Dec 7, 2018, 4:08 PM)


paulh66
Qatar World Cup bid member!


Dec 7, 2018, 4:18 PM

Posts: 17760
Location: Surrey
Team(s): Tranmere Rovers, South Liverpool (the South will rise again), Cammell Laird

Post #2015 of 2140 (675 views)
Shortcut
Re: [mick] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Putting it simpler, Joe Public mandates its politicians to deliver something that no politician appears capable of delivering to their satisfaction. So Joe Public will likely be asked to reverse its mandate.

What an utter farce. Two years wasted on mission impossible and the country even more divided than ever. Hindsight may be a wonderful thing but the referendum should never have been called in the first place if Cameron had truly and properly thought through what's in the nation's best interest.


(This post was edited by paulh66 on Dec 7, 2018, 4:24 PM)


mick
Chelsea Transfer Target


Dec 7, 2018, 5:34 PM

Posts: 4421
Location:
Team(s):

Post #2016 of 2140 (619 views)
Shortcut
Re: [paulh66] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Putting it simpler, Joe Public mandates its politicians to deliver something that no politician appears capable of delivering to their satisfaction. So Joe Public will likely be asked to reverse its mandate.


About covers it. A more accurate breakdown of the real choice would be
Accept May's deal
Exit with no deal
Reverse mandate.

... but some leave voters, particularly the 'leave at all costs' group, would claim, with some justification, that the leave vote was being split whilst the stay vote wasn't... and round it all starts again.

Agree it is all an utter farce.


(This post was edited by mick on Dec 7, 2018, 5:42 PM)


TroubleAtMill
Youth Team Star

Dec 7, 2018, 5:48 PM

Posts: 338
Location:
Team(s):

Post #2017 of 2140 (600 views)
Shortcut
Re: [mick] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I didn't think the referendum mandated anything as its result was advisery, not binding, on the government.

Which makes everything that's happened since even more of a clusterfuck.


Ronsdog
First Team Star


Dec 7, 2018, 8:56 PM

Posts: 2375
Location: Sarf London
Team(s): Lowestoft Town, Crystal Palace

Post #2018 of 2140 (522 views)
Shortcut
Re: [TroubleAtMill] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I didn't think the referendum mandated anything as its result was advisery, not binding, on the government.

Which makes everything that's happened since even more of a clusterfuck.


NOT according to HM Governmants leaflet that I received Mr TAM.

It clearly stated on the penultimate page the following......

A ONCE IN A GENERATION DECISION

The referendum on Thursday 23rd June is your chance to decide if we should remain in the European Union.
The government believes it is in the best interests of the UK to remain in the EU.
This is the way to protect jobs, provide security, and strengthen the UKs economy for every family in this country-a clear path into the future, in contrast to the uncertainty of leaving.

This is your decision. The government will implement what you decide.
If your aged 18 or over by 23rd June and entitled to vote, this is your chance to decide.

........That's pretty unequivocal as far as this voter is concerned. Any deviation from that promise will be construed as a betrayal and bring the political process in this country into disrepute.

Note the page was headed ....A once in a generation decision.
The bold highlighted type was the governments advice and highlighted in the pamphlet.

No confusion or misunderstanding in this voters mind.
Can't speak for others of course.
However I do remember many who have contributed to this thread, on both sides of the argument, returning the pamphlet to No 10.

I kept mine in the knowledge that it would be needed to refute such arguments as the one you've raised Mr TAM.


PaulC
Man City Transfer Target!


Dec 7, 2018, 10:14 PM

Posts: 10596
Location: Ayrshire, Midlothian
Team(s): AFC Darwen, Troon, Ayr Utd, Burnley

Post #2019 of 2140 (485 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Ronsdog] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

There's a world of difference between the contents of a pamphlet and the law.

The referendum was advisory.

There is absolutely nothing to prevent a government calling s referendum whenever it so wishes.


Ronsdog
First Team Star


Dec 7, 2018, 10:27 PM

Posts: 2375
Location: Sarf London
Team(s): Lowestoft Town, Crystal Palace

Post #2020 of 2140 (473 views)
Shortcut
Re: [PaulC] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
There's a world oyf difference between the contents of a pamphlet and the law.

The referendum was advisory.

There is absolutely nothing to prevent a government calling s referendum whenever it so wishes.


Without wishing to be obtuse Mr C, and being a bumpkin, I fail to see the distinction between an official government publication that drops on my doormat making a promise that my vote will be respected and acted upon and the legal position that you suggest.

Perhaps you may wish to amplify.


jrev61
Man City Transfer Target!

Dec 7, 2018, 10:30 PM

Posts: 7822
Location: Northampton
Team(s): None

Post #2021 of 2140 (472 views)
Shortcut
Re: [mick] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
In a nutshell:
British public mandates May to negotiate Brexit
May negotiates arguably the best deal possible (who knows whether it is or not, but nobody has come up with an accepted better alternative)
Politicians seek to stymie best deal possible
May ends up as toast for fulfilling the mandate


Not quite:


There was an election for the Tory leadership. I seem to remember Andrea Leadsom, Michael Gove and Liam Fox standing against her. Whilst Boris withdrew after being stabbed in the back by Gove. Not that I have any sympathy for him!

British public mandates the government to leave the EU, not necessarily by negotiation.

Cameron resigns and is replaced by May without an election of any sort, not even by a handful of Tory MPs.

May calls a general election to endorse her handling of Brexit negotiations and the Tory majority is reduced, only clinging on due to a swing in their favour in Scotland and a deal with the DUP.

May negotiates a deal which even her chief Brexit negotiators say is not the best possible outcome (although it might be the best deal possible).

Politicians, and others, argue that the 'best negotiated deal possible ' could be improved, some even say how, but there is no consensus. Some argue that the 'best deal' is actually worse than exit with no deal. Many factions demand a say before it is fully signed off.

May argues she has fulfilled the mandate, but how many people who voted to leave consider the deal she has negotiated to be an appropriate fulfilment of what they voted for, nobody knows.

>>>>>>>>>>
I also notice that the loud voices on here who continually shouted that we could trust the government to deliver what "the people" wanted on Brexit have gone very quiet in recent weeks !




jrev61


PaulC
Man City Transfer Target!


Dec 8, 2018, 10:22 AM

Posts: 10596
Location: Ayrshire, Midlothian
Team(s): AFC Darwen, Troon, Ayr Utd, Burnley

Post #2022 of 2140 (308 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Ronsdog] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
There's a world oyf difference between the contents of a pamphlet and the law.

The referendum was advisory.

There is absolutely nothing to prevent a government calling s referendum whenever it so wishes.


Without wishing to be obtuse Mr C, and being a bumpkin, I fail to see the distinction between an official government publication that drops on my doormat making a promise that my vote will be respected and acted upon and the legal position that you suggest.

Perhaps you may wish to amplify.


It’s quite simple.

The law is the law. Referendums are non-binding.

Political commitments have no legal standing.

Governments have broken promises and made commitments that they don’t have the power to keep since the beginning of time. Parliament is sovereign - not a few people (many of whom have since fled) who penned a pamphlet.


TroubleAtMill
Youth Team Star

Dec 8, 2018, 1:49 PM

Posts: 338
Location:
Team(s):

Post #2023 of 2140 (246 views)
Shortcut
Re: [PaulC] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

So Brexit was none binding but a very difficult thing, nigh impossible politically, to avoid doing once the referendum result was in.


PaulC
Man City Transfer Target!


Dec 8, 2018, 5:01 PM

Posts: 10596
Location: Ayrshire, Midlothian
Team(s): AFC Darwen, Troon, Ayr Utd, Burnley

Post #2024 of 2140 (195 views)
Shortcut
Re: [TroubleAtMill] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
So Brexit was none binding but a very difficult thing, nigh impossible politically, to avoid doing once the referendum result was in.


Brexit was indeed legally non-binding. Parliament is sovereign.

What has been impossible to do is deliver Brexit in any way which will satisfy a majority of Parliament or even the electorate.

Had the electorate been told just what the full consequences of Brexit would be then perhaps there would have been fewer knee-jerk votes in its favour.


Yatesman
Reserve Team Star

Dec 8, 2018, 5:30 PM

Posts: 783
Location: A Wee Toon in the Scottish Borders
Team(s):

Post #2025 of 2140 (183 views)
Shortcut
Re: [PaulC] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
So Brexit was none binding but a very difficult thing, nigh impossible politically, to avoid doing once the referendum result was in.


Brexit was indeed legally non-binding. Parliament is sovereign.

What has been impossible to do is deliver Brexit in any way which will satisfy a majority of Parliament or even the electorate.

Had the electorate been told just what the full consequences of Brexit would be then perhaps there would have been fewer knee-jerk votes in its favour.


I'm not sure why you say Brexit was nonbinding when the Gov't has made it perfectly clear it will honour the mandate set by the Leave victory.
It is now set in legislation that we will Leave on 29 March 2018.

I don't know how you can claim there were 'knee jerk' votes for Leave when most people had been waiting for years to get their chance to vote Leave....inconvenient truth for you!

As for the 'consequences' of Brexit. I suggest you put your Crystal Ball away and stop your fear mongering.

As for the Sovereignity of Parliament...........The Brexit vote was intended to return sovereignity to Westminster from Brussels.
However, MP's are each in Parliament to REPRESENT THE CONSTITUENTS...........And in that statement lies the heart of our democratic system. We don't elect MP's to go Postal and ignore the people they represent and for you to support that makes you a reactionary and anti-democratic.
There is no system of Democracy that supports the minority view over the majority.......only dictatiorships do that.


(This post was edited by Yatesman on Dec 8, 2018, 5:38 PM)

First page Previous page 1 ... 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 Next page Last page  View All
 
 


free hit counters

Search for (options) HOSTED BY SUMMIT SOCCER v.1.2.3