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Home: All Other Football Interests: Football in other countries:
World Cup 2018 - General Discussion Thread

 

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leohoenig
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Jul 12, 2018, 11:48 AM

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Re: [buncranaboy] World Cup 2018 - General Discussion Thread [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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I didn't see anything to suggest this England side are yet capable of competing with, never mind beating, one of the better sides- of whom they didn't play any.
Lots of heart but they played just like Ireland do at major tournaments where ultimately your (creative) limitations are exposed.


SO are you saying that one of the World Cup finalists are not one of the better sides?



Fat AND Pompous.
The proof that you can have too much of a good thing
Now blogging at http://www.leohoenig.com


buncranaboy
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Jul 12, 2018, 12:55 PM

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Post #377 of 425 (1716 views)
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Re: [leohoenig] World Cup 2018 - General Discussion Thread [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

You well know that a favourable draw can allow this to happen and the way this tournament panned out created two quite unequal halves in terms of quality but you can't dismiss Croatias achievement in beating the teams they ended up playing...and they could well win the thing. Cup competitions are not always necessarily won by the best sides. Were Portugal the best team in Europe two years ago or Greece back in 2004? France are undoubtedly a better team than Croatia but in a one-off encounter they could well lose on Sunday.

We beat Italy in the World Cup in USA yet there they were in the final while we'd already been home for a fortnight! And no, by no stretch were we a better team....
Scots will no doubt continue to disagree....


Tykeoldboy
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Jul 12, 2018, 1:51 PM

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Re: [buncranaboy] World Cup 2018 - General Discussion Thread [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

England have been poor in defence, I'd even as naive throughout the tournament. A plus to come out of this World cup is that Southgate managed the U21 team and worked with most of the players now playing at full international level, so he knows their abilities. Southgate does seem to be the right man for the job and should be given a long run at it, if he wants it.


Part-Timer
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Jul 12, 2018, 3:17 PM

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Post #379 of 425 (1627 views)
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Re: [Sale Holmfield] World Cup 2018 - General Discussion Thread [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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There could be all sorts of strange results in the unusual conditions of Qatar, but in the meantime, Croatia's deserved run to the final is a real fairy tale for a nation so young and small.

Unusual conditions in Qatar? The average daily high in Qatar in December is 25 degrees; pretty much what it is in Moscow in June/July and a good deal lower than many World Cup venues over the years.


Sale Holmfield
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Jul 12, 2018, 3:51 PM

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Re: [Part-Timer] World Cup 2018 - General Discussion Thread [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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In Reply To
There could be all sorts of strange results in the unusual conditions of Qatar, but in the meantime, Croatia's deserved run to the final is a real fairy tale for a nation so young and small.

Unusual conditions in Qatar? The average daily high in Qatar in December is 25 degrees; pretty much what it is in Moscow in June/July and a good deal lower than many World Cup venues over the years.


Your reply prompted me to check and see that you are right. I am surprised there is so much seasonal variation, I must say.
I bet you will see my mistake repeated on the media between now and then!


oxpete
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Jul 12, 2018, 7:34 PM

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Post #381 of 425 (1533 views)
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Re: [KnowYourMarket] World Cup 2018 - General Discussion Thread [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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The main gain was at least England looked bothered which is more than can be said in recent times. They were massive improvement over the sides that represented England in the last 2 major tournaments.

So that is a triumph in itself and I'm sure the country enjoyed the ride. At least there was some unity for people. Something our politicians could look at!

Whether they beat anyone any good or not is irrelevant as they got further in the competition than 28 other teams, so how average are they then?


Looking back, I think maybe my original comments about England's average results against average sides were probably just a little uncharitable. You are right - they have done better than 28 other sides, many of whom had much higher expectations. For achieving that, Gareth Southgate and the players deserve praise and congratulations.

One thing the television critics did get right, however, was their idea that maybe this was as good a chance as England will ever get of winning the World Cup ever again. Never again will we see Germany, Argentina, Brazil, Spain and Portugal all tumble so easily, along with the likes of Italy and Netherlands not even qualifying. Excepting maybe Uruguay and an unlucky Morocco, just about every one of the South American and African representatives have under-performed at this World Cup. It has been a quite unique outcome, and it could be many years before such a guilt-edged opportunity comes along again.





Mr. T
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Jul 12, 2018, 8:39 PM

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Re: [oxpete] World Cup 2018 - General Discussion Thread [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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...it could be many years before such a guilt-edged opportunity comes along again.

Indeed. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Harry Kane's conscience is bothering him a little for missing such a golden chance...


windydcfc
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Jul 12, 2018, 11:15 PM

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Re: [Mr. T] World Cup 2018 - General Discussion Thread [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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...it could be many years before such a guilt-edged opportunity comes along again.

Indeed. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Harry Kane's conscience is bothering him a little for missing such a golden chance...



Kane had a pretty innocuous game & he could also have squared it for that guilt edged chance. England should’ve been 2 or 3 up at halftime. After halftime, the Croats dominated & deserved to win the game.


Mr. T
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Re: [windydcfc] World Cup 2018 - General Discussion Thread [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

You spotted one pun elsewhere. Have you missed one here?


windydcfc
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Jul 13, 2018, 12:05 AM

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Re: [Mr. T] World Cup 2018 - General Discussion Thread [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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You spotted one pun elsewhere. Have you missed one here?



Sorry, I’m a bit tired.


KnowYourMarket
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Jul 13, 2018, 8:26 AM

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Re: [buncranaboy] World Cup 2018 - General Discussion Thread [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

England really should have been 2 or 3 up by half time but scuppered their chances. I doubt Croatia would have come back from that. We didn't take our chances and played the 2nd half so deep and just kept launching the ball up front and it kept coming back.

The better side won in the end but we were the architects of our own downfall.

My cat was encouraged though, he's quick and can't control a ball for toffee either.



Last ground visited(update requested by Spud): Wellington . New grounds 18/19: 38

(This post was edited by KnowYourMarket on Jul 13, 2018, 8:27 AM)


Towlawtom
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Jul 14, 2018, 5:32 PM

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Post #387 of 425 (1098 views)
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Re: [KnowYourMarket] World Cup 2018 - General Discussion Thread [In reply to] Can't Post or

A good world cup for England but what an opportunity missed. They were fortune to end up in the best half of the draw. I have no Doubt that if England had topped the group, they would have probably gone out to Japan in the last 16 or definitely Brazil in the Quarters. Belgium would have played France in the Final and not the Semi final..



I need to have the last word as it makes it look as if i'm always right!


noprogs
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Jul 15, 2018, 8:44 AM

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Post #388 of 425 (995 views)
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Re: [Towlawtom] World Cup 2018 - General Discussion Thread [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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A good world cup for England but what an opportunity missed. They were fortune to end up in the best half of the draw. I have no Doubt that if England had topped the group, they would have probably gone out to Japan in the last 16 or definitely Brazil in the Quarters. Belgium would have played France in the Final and not the Semi final.

I think it was also in England's favour that they were drawn to play Belgium in the third of the group stage matches, as if they'd lost that and there was a positive result in the Tunisia-Panama game, then there would have been considerably more pressure on the last two games.



007Dale
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Jul 15, 2018, 6:38 PM

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Post #389 of 425 (903 views)
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Re: [007Dale] World Cup 2018 - General Discussion Thread [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The World Cup record has been updated below
(Ref: 1st/2nd/3rd/4th/total appearances)

01: 5 / 2 / 2 / 2 / 21 - Brazil
02: 4 / 4 / 4 / 1 / 19 - Germany / W Germany
03: 4 / 2 / 1 / 1 / 18 - Italy
04: 2 / 3 / 0 / 0 / 17 - Argentina
05: 2 / 1 / 2 / 1 / 15 - France
06: 2 / 0 / 0 / 3 / 12 - Uruguay
07: 1 / 0 / 0 / 2 / 15 - England
08: 1 / 0 / 0 / 1 / 15 - Spain
09: 0 / 3 / 1 / 1 / 10 - Holland
10: 0 / 2 / 0 / 0 / 9 - Hungary
11: 0 / 2 / 0 / 0 / 8 - Czechoslovakia
12: 0 / 1 / 2 / 1 / 13 - Sweden
13: 0 / 1 / 1 / 0 / 5 - Croatia
14: 0 / 0 / 2 / 0 / 8 - Poland
15: 0 / 0 / 1 / 1 / 13 - Belgium
16: 0 / 0 / 1 / 1 / 7 - Austria
16: 0 / 0 / 1 / 1 / 7 - Portugal
18: 0 / 0 / 1 / 0 / 10 - USA
19: 0 / 0 / 1 / 0 / 9 - Chile
20: 0 / 0 / 1 / 0 / 2 - Turkey
21: 0 / 0 / 0 / 2 / 12 - Serbia / Yugoslavia
22: 0 / 0 / 0 / 1 / 11 - Russia / Soviet Union
23: 0 / 0 / 0 / 1 / 10 - South Korea
24: 0 / 0 / 0 / 1 / 7 - Bulgaria


noprogs
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Jul 15, 2018, 7:05 PM

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Post #390 of 425 (880 views)
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Re: [noprogs] World Cup 2018 - General Discussion Thread [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Disappointing that an entertaining world cup should effectively turn on a 50/50 VAR decision.The biggest problem with VAR for me is that if a referee is asked to come over and review an incident, it takes a very strong character to stand up and say 'No, I stick to my original decision'.


Towlawtom
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Jul 15, 2018, 7:06 PM

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Re: [007Dale] World Cup 2018 - General Discussion Thread [In reply to] Can't Post or

How ironic that the most controversial hand-ball in a world cup tournament match since you know who, was decided by VAR and the referee giving a wrong decision.



I need to have the last word as it makes it look as if i'm always right!


noprogs
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Jul 15, 2018, 7:41 PM

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Post #392 of 425 (867 views)
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Re: [Towlawtom] World Cup 2018 - General Discussion Thread [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Wrong, I'm not so sure - it's one you would hope would go your way, no more.Clear and obvious error - definitely not.It might hinge on whether he actually saw it at all.If he didn't then it's still a coin toss, and he didn't have the bottle to say No to the VAR officials.


paulh66
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Jul 15, 2018, 7:59 PM

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Post #393 of 425 (851 views)
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Re: [noprogs] World Cup 2018 - General Discussion Thread [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I thought it was a penalty but only after seeing the replays - once the defender realised he wasn't going to head it his arm and leg instinctively went to block it.

Lineker's read out of the VAR rules at half time, which I've since looked into on the FIFA website, suggest we may have misunderstood the point about "clear and obvious". According to the FIFA website, "the VAR team communicates with the referee only for clear and obvious mistakes or serious missed incidents." From that point on, seems it's down to the ref to simply award what he feels is the correct decision - there is nothing I can see that suggests he should only change his decision if he feels it was a clear and obvious mistake.

So "clear and obvious" is a consideration that only impacts the VAR team and not the ref, and they take into account "serious missed incidents" and not just "clear and obvious mistakes". A penalty shout constitutes a "serious missed incident" in my book so, despite what Big Al and Rio might say, I reckon it was a good call and the VAR worked as it should have done. Some may disagree, though.... Wink

Anyway, was it just me who thought Steve McClaren may have had a wry smile as the Croatian PM was getting soaked during the presentation? Maybe Wally was ten years ahead of his time after all!


(This post was edited by paulh66 on Jul 15, 2018, 8:22 PM)


Towlawtom
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Jul 15, 2018, 8:23 PM

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Post #394 of 425 (817 views)
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Re: [paulh66] World Cup 2018 - General Discussion Thread [In reply to] Can't Post or


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I thought it was a penalty but only after seeing the replays - once the defender realised he wasn't going to head it his arm and leg instinctively went to block it.

Lineker's read out of the VAR rules at half time, which I've since looked into on the FIFA website, suggest we may have misunderstood the point about "clear and obvious". According to the FIFA website, "the VAR team communicates with the referee only for clear and obvious mistakes or serious missed incidents." From that point on, seems it's down to the ref to simply award what he feels is the correct decision - there is nothing I can see that suggests he should only change his decision if he feels it was a clear and obvious mistake.

So "clear and obvious" is a consideration that only impacts the VAR team and not the ref, and they take into account "serious missed incidents" and not just "clear and obvious mistakes". A penalty shout constitutes a "serious missed incident" in my book so, despite what Big Al and Rio might say, I reckon it was a good call and the VAR worked as it should have done. Some may disagree, though.... Wink

Anyway, was it just me who thought of Steve McClaren as the Croatian PM was getting soaked during the presentation? Maybe Wally was ten years ahead of his time after all!


If ref was convinced it was a penalty, why did he go back again to check the decision a second time. Must have been an element of doubt on that and not conclusive.



I need to have the last word as it makes it look as if i'm always right!


Towlawtom
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Jul 15, 2018, 8:29 PM

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Re: [Towlawtom] World Cup 2018 - General Discussion Thread [In reply to] Can't Post or

World Cup useless fact of the day

All 4 keepers of the losing finalists from the last 4 World Cup Finals have played for Monaco.



I need to have the last word as it makes it look as if i'm always right!


paulh66
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Jul 15, 2018, 8:39 PM

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Re: [Towlawtom] World Cup 2018 - General Discussion Thread [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Presumably his second brief look was enough to remove that element of doubt.

On the subject of keepers, why are they making more and more daft decisions and daft mistakes in big matches these days? Even Lloris is at it now.


jrev61
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Jul 15, 2018, 8:43 PM

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Re: [paulh66] World Cup 2018 - General Discussion Thread [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

It must have been a great day to be a Serbian sports fan. First they could have watched Novak Djokovic win Wimbledon then switch channels and watch Croatia lose in the World Cup Final.



jrev61


hawkwind
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Jul 15, 2018, 9:43 PM

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Re: [jrev61] World Cup 2018 - General Discussion Thread [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

England over achieved but that was more down to the failings of others. Given our path a semi-final was not a surprise although it wouldn't have been a disgrace if we'd lost our penalty shoot-out.

It's interesting to look at England's recent international record against teams of various quality.

We have won only one of our last 10 matches against teams participating in the upcoming European Nations League Level One (three draws and six defeats). For balance the three teams we haven't played in that run (Poland, Portugal and Switzerland) we beat in our most recent meetings.

In finals we have zero wins in our last 10 matches against ENLL1 teams, four draws (three subsequently lost on penalties) and six defeats. Our last win was against Croatia at the 2004 Euros.

On the other hand we are totally at ease against other European teams. 34 matches undefeated (26 wins 8 draws) since Zlatan netted a quadruple November 2012.

So onto a difficult Nations League group stage. Reaching the last four or relegated to tier two - which would be the bigger surprise?


Tykeoldboy
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Re: [hawkwind] World Cup 2018 - General Discussion Thread [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Are we getting to the point when a player who isn't in a goal scoring position then deliberately aims the ball at an opponents hand from close range to try and win a penalty?


mip
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Re: [Tykeoldboy] World Cup 2018 - General Discussion Thread [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Are we getting to the point when a player who isn't in a goal scoring position then deliberately aims the ball at an opponents hand from close range to try and win a penalty?


That would be a natural development with the handball interpretation used at the World Cup.

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