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Home: Non Football Related: General Chat:
EU Withdrawal Negotiations

 

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Ronsdog
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Oct 12, 2017, 1:21 PM

Posts: 2236
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Post #1 of 796 (13025 views)
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EU Withdrawal Negotiations Can't Post or Reply Privately

 
Is it any wonder that the current negotiations regarding the UKs withdrawal have reached a position of deadlock?

The EU need our money and we require their markets to trade freely in; but whilst the EU continue to refuse to discuss future trading arrangements why should this country
bow to their demand to settle the bill, so to speak.

The UK, as the second biggest contributor to the clubs coffers would be foolish to discuss the financial settlement while the future trading arrangements remain unclear.
The latest available figures show that after Germany we are the second biggest net contributor....

European Commission figures for 2015
Germany 17.1bn euros
UK 14.0bn euros
France 6.1bn euros
Netherlands. 5.6bn euros

Germany, France and the Netherlands will have to dig deep into their pockets to cover the shortfall when we finally exit if there is no movement, which looks increasingly likely.

I was always pessimistic about a settlement being arrived at because of the financial stumbling block. So its likely we will revert back to our pre 1975 arrangements with the EU Bloc. In short WTO trading arrangements.

Is it realistic that the UK would or should offer concessions to move the EU from their current implacable position?


007Dale
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Oct 12, 2017, 1:38 PM

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Post #2 of 796 (13014 views)
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Re: [Ronsdog] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Is it realistic that the UK would or should offer concessions to move the EU from their current implacable position?


No, we shouldn't. Indeed, we should probably walk away from the talks now until they agree to discuss trade.

I was always of the opinion that talks would fail. The argument about the ECJ is a prime example - they want to have jurisdictions over another sovereign country - who would ever agree to that?

The only area of concern for me is the NI border.


derekn
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Oct 12, 2017, 3:00 PM

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Post #3 of 796 (12992 views)
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Re: [Ronsdog] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Correct me if I'm wrong, but we're the ones who want to leave. If you try to get out of any contract early, you have to pay the consequences. The principles are all in the treaties we signed up to, it's only a question of detail about the amount payable. We can't just walk away with no repercussions.


Richard Rundle
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Oct 12, 2017, 3:52 PM

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Post #4 of 796 (12980 views)
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Re: [Ronsdog] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Is it realistic that the UK would or should offer concessions to move the EU from their current implacable position?


Of course it is. It is also realistic for the EU to offer concessions to move the UK from their current stubborn position.

That's how negotiations work.


Chris1963
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Oct 12, 2017, 3:54 PM

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Post #5 of 796 (12978 views)
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Re: [Richard Rundle] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Can't we have another referendum on leaving the EU - or at least a vote in the Commons - once the talks are over?


Tykeoldboy
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Oct 12, 2017, 4:30 PM

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Post #6 of 796 (12960 views)
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Re: [Chris1963] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Can't we have another referendum on leaving the EU - or at least a vote in the Commons - once the talks are over?


Once the negotiations are complete and the British people know what the deal is then there should be a second referendum.


windydcfc
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Oct 12, 2017, 4:40 PM

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Post #7 of 796 (12957 views)
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Re: [derekn] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Correct me if I'm wrong, but we're the ones who want to leave. If you try to get out of any contract early, you have to pay the consequences. The principles are all in the treaties we signed up to, it's only a question of detail about the amount payable. We can't just walk away with no repercussions.



The PM was asked several times a PMQ's, what legal advice she's received on leaving the EU & the reports she's received on the economic outcome for the U.K. on leaving the EU. She just refused to answer. Has she actually given a straight answer to anything on TV interviews or PMQ's since the General Election?Crazy


007Dale
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Oct 12, 2017, 4:55 PM

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Post #8 of 796 (12951 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The PM is being pulled in two directions, one way by Philip Hammond and one by Boris Johnson.

There is absolutely no way things are going to end well.

All because she called that General Election.

The trouble is, a Tory Leadership battle will tear the Tories further apart. Whoever is leader will have the same issue, no majority and pandering to both sides.

I think she'll have to stay until the end of negotiations. But that is far from ideal. Quite frankly had she any power left, she should Have sacked Boris and Hammond.


(This post was edited by 007Dale on Oct 12, 2017, 4:56 PM)


PaulC
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Oct 12, 2017, 6:27 PM

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Post #9 of 796 (12928 views)
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Re: [Tykeoldboy] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Can't we have another referendum on leaving the EU - or at least a vote in the Commons - once the talks are over?


Once the negotiations are complete and the British people know what the deal is then there should be a second referendum.


Of course there should. We voted for a pig in a poke. When we eventually discover what was inside that poke we should decide whether or not we want to keep it.

Have we ever had a PM, Deputy, Chancellor and Home Secretary trying to impose on this country something they don't believe in - and in fact believe will be harmful to this country.

Succumbing to populism is a total abrogation of their responsibilities.


(This post was edited by PaulC on Oct 12, 2017, 6:31 PM)


Ronsdog
First Team Star


Oct 12, 2017, 8:10 PM

Posts: 2236
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Post #10 of 796 (12893 views)
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Re: [PaulC] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

An interesting range of diverse opinions to a simple question, which just goes to show how divided we are as a nation.

From walk away now to re-running the whole debate and vote.
That's a huge gap in national thinking if this forum is in any way reflective of the general mood in the country.

The impasse that faces both us and the EU could end in tears for both if diplomacy and goodwill, which is clearly sadly lacking on both sides, doesn't come into play soon.

Could it be in true EU fashion that nothing will be settled until it's all settled, which is still on the table. A last minute fudge of monumental proportions or no deal and what that could potentially bring?


northstandexile
First Team Regular

Oct 12, 2017, 9:15 PM

Posts: 1328
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Post #11 of 796 (12861 views)
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Re: [Ronsdog] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Anybody with any sense knew that coming out of the EU would be impossible without disasterous consequences.

Just can’t believe the nation voted for it, but then I suppose I can with many folk not liking foreigners and being lied to by millionaires.

My major worry is what happens on the NI border, unless everybody just does nothing about the border and leave it at it is.


jon b
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Oct 12, 2017, 11:03 PM

Posts: 2358
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Post #12 of 796 (12811 views)
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Re: [PaulC] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Have we ever had a PM, Deputy, Chancellor and Home Secretary trying to impose on this country something they don't believe in - and in fact believe will be harmful to this country.

Succumbing to populism is a total abrogation of their responsibilities.


It's this hypocrisy of May/Hammond/Green that I find staggering.

I'm personally not in favour of leaving the EU but if the Conservatives are definitely leading us out of it then surely it has to be Brexiteers, people who actually believe in leaving it, who lead, not those who obviously think it's a stupid mistake but are clinging on to power nevertheless.


leohoenig
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Oct 13, 2017, 11:04 AM

Posts: 12278
Location: Outer Cheltenhamshire
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Post #13 of 796 (12738 views)
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Re: [jon b] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I thought the lead Brexiteer (aka Boris the Spider), did not actually believe in anything - other than furthering his career
Do we want another Prime Minister who is more interesting in being Prime Minister than what he can achieve from the podium?



Fat AND Pompous.
The proof that you can have too much of a good thing
Now blogging at http://www.leohoenig.com


jon b
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Nov 13, 2017, 8:57 PM

Posts: 2358
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Post #14 of 796 (12057 views)
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Re: [leohoenig] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Apparently billionaire inventor/businessman James Dyson, who wants to walk away from negotiations, sees Brexit as the chance to make it easier to hire and fire people. Though, given his track record, I suspect in reality it's the idea of easier firing that actually appeals to him.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/...336fe4b01d21c83eff64

Oddly enough, I don't remember "doing away with workers rights" being put on the side of that Vote Leave Battle Bus during the Referendum campaign.


Tykeoldboy
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Nov 13, 2017, 9:17 PM

Posts: 2748
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Team(s): Doncaster Rovers, Everton, Mablethorpe

Post #15 of 796 (12047 views)
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Re: [jon b] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

MP's will be given a final vote once the final deal is put on the table. The final deal might be a lot different to what was voted for in the referendum and maybe there should be a second referendum once everyone knows what they will be getting.


kirby knitters
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Nov 13, 2017, 9:28 PM

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Post #16 of 796 (12041 views)
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Re: [Tykeoldboy] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

It will certainly not be what i voted for but a second referendum cannot be allowed to take place under any circumstances.

LEAVE MEANS LEAVE!!


Towlawtom
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Nov 13, 2017, 9:45 PM

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Post #17 of 796 (12030 views)
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Re: [jon b] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or


In Reply To
Apparently billionaire inventor/businessman James Dyson, who wants to walk away from negotiations, sees Brexit as the chance to make it easier to hire and fire people. Though, given his track record, I suspect in reality it's the idea of easier firing that actually appeals to him.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/...336fe4b01d21c83eff64

Oddly enough, I don't remember "doing away with workers rights" being put on the side of that Vote Leave Battle Bus during the Referendum campaign.


Then you were bring very naive. Workers rights in the UK were always going to be better protected whilst remaining in the EU



I need to have the last word as it makes it look as if i'm always right!


jrev61
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Nov 13, 2017, 10:36 PM

Posts: 7647
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Post #18 of 796 (12014 views)
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Re: [kirby knitters] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
It will certainly not be what i voted for but a second referendum cannot be allowed to take place under any circumstances.

LEAVE MEANS LEAVE!!


So once the British people have been conned they must stay conned!



jrev61


kirby knitters
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Nov 13, 2017, 10:50 PM

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Post #19 of 796 (12005 views)
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Re: [jrev61] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
It will certainly not be what i voted for but a second referendum cannot be allowed to take place under any circumstances.

LEAVE MEANS LEAVE!!


So once the British people have been conned they must stay conned!

I voted leave and nothing that is potentially around the corner would give me the feeling of being conned whatsoever!

LEAVE MEANS LEAVE!!


Part-Timer
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Nov 14, 2017, 10:15 AM

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Post #20 of 796 (11914 views)
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Re: [Towlawtom] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Apparently billionaire inventor/businessman James Dyson, who wants to walk away from negotiations, sees Brexit as the chance to make it easier to hire and fire people. Though, given his track record, I suspect in reality it's the idea of easier firing that actually appeals to him.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/...336fe4b01d21c83eff64

Oddly enough, I don't remember "doing away with workers rights" being put on the side of that Vote Leave Battle Bus during the Referendum campaign.


Then you were bring very naive. Workers rights in the UK were always going to be better protected whilst remaining in the EU

It was the greatest failing of the Remain campaign that it failed to get this message across, or even try to. The Labour leadership's lukewarm campaigning for Remain was principally to blame as no Remain supporting Tory was likely to get much of a hearing if they were to start campaigning in favour of workers' rights.


steveking
Reserve Team Regular

Nov 14, 2017, 2:23 PM

Posts: 658
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Post #21 of 796 (11854 views)
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Re: [kirby knitters] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
It will certainly not be what i voted for but a second referendum cannot be allowed to take place under any circumstances.

LEAVE MEANS LEAVE!!


So once the British people have been conned they must stay conned!

I voted leave and nothing that is potentially around the corner would give me the feeling of being conned whatsoever!

So surely no problem with a second referendum if all other Brexiters feel the same as you once the terms of exit are clear.


jon b
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Nov 15, 2017, 8:14 AM

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Post #22 of 796 (11706 views)
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Re: [kirby knitters] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
It will certainly not be what i voted for but a second referendum cannot be allowed to take place under any circumstances.


Really? Not under any circumstances?!

Personally, I'm not bothered about another Referendum and can cope with the idea of us leaving the EU. But the idea that we can't have second thoughts if extreme pain and problems arise seems a bit far-fetched.

Fortunately, we're led by a PM who doesn't really believe in Brexit backed up by high calibre, competent people such as Bojo, Dr Fox, Pritti and Rees-Mogg so what can possibly go wrong?


kirby knitters
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Nov 15, 2017, 10:25 AM

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Post #23 of 796 (11666 views)
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Re: [jon b] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Before departure was my meaning of any as it seems we still have certain individuals who are hell bent on ignoring the will of the people and remaining within the EU.


Impossible to predict what the future holds for us outside or even for the EU but agree with you on PM and others you name as I am beginning to trust them less and less by the day.


jon b
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Nov 15, 2017, 4:12 PM

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Post #24 of 796 (11580 views)
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Re: [kirby knitters] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The Remainers seem no more impressive. I suspect that their cause is fatally undermined by Jezza and allies not actually wanting to stay in the European Union.

Just like Dyson and the far right see opportunities for their brand of politics outside the EU, so do the far left.

The problem for the Tories is that whilst Jezza isn't bothered about remaining in the EU he is bothered about using any available stick, including Brexit, to beat May and co and bring about an election.


PaulC
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Nov 15, 2017, 7:46 PM

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Post #25 of 796 (11518 views)
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Re: [kirby knitters] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
It will certainly not be what i voted for but a second referendum cannot be allowed to take place under any circumstances.

LEAVE MEANS LEAVE!!



BWAHAHAHA! So if we are worse off as a result of no deal or a bad deal we should just act like lemmings and run over the cliff anyway.

Crazy!

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