Non League Matters - The Continuation of Tonys english Football Site 



  Main Index MAIN
INDEX
Search Posts SEARCH
POSTS
Who's Online WHO'S
ONLINE
Log in LOG
IN

Home: Non-League Football Discussion: Other British Isles Football:
WPL to remain at 12 clubs

 

First page Previous page 1 2 Next page Last page  View All


gcnc
Man City Transfer Target!

Dec 15, 2016, 6:19 PM

Posts: 11382
Location: Pontypool
Team(s): Newport County

Post #1 of 40 (4769 views)
Shortcut
WPL to remain at 12 clubs Can't Post or Reply Privately

From http://welsh-premier.com/...pular-12-club-format

THE Welsh Premier League is set to remain with 12 participating clubs after a motion to increase the number to 16 next season was "not supported" at a meeting of the FAW Council in Cwmbran today.

A month ago, the WPL says that an "overwhelming majority" of member clubs at a meeting of chairmen in Newtown confirmed their wish to continue with a maximum of 12 participating teams, although this has been refuted privately by one of the clubs present.

The league was cut from 18 to 12 clubs in 2010 when founder members Caersws and Connah's Quay were relegated to the Cymru Alliance, along with Cefn Druids, Porthmadog, Rhyl and Welshpool.

But the format has not proved popular with fans who find as many as six games against the same opponents, depending on cup draws, a stale offering.


R.S.Cavendish
First Team Star

Dec 15, 2016, 6:36 PM

Posts: 1742
Location:
Team(s):

Post #2 of 40 (4754 views)
Shortcut
Re: [gcnc] WPL to remain at 12 clubs [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

This is just a pack of lies from the FAW Council. It was only a few months ago at a meeting of the six most northern clubs that a vote of 5-1 to expand the league was passed.
At the most recent AGM two of the southern clubs proposed and seconded a motion to expand the league to 16 clubs. The motion was called "out of order" by the chairman.
Recently relegated clubs have stated that under no circumstances will they accept promotion back to the WPL while it has just 12 clubs.
Attendance figures are concocted while the stupidity of allowing full-time TNS to win the league each season sends the punters away to watch matches elsewhere.
Just look at the attendance figures for Llanelli Town and Briton Ferry in recent weeks. All way above the fantasy figures given out by WPL clubs (including Rhyl who are the worst offenders). I still remember the time Afan Lido gave out a WPL attendance figure of 89 and were duly rebuked by FAW officials who told them that the lowest figure allowed was to be 110.


Bantam Cymraeg
Chelsea Transfer Target


Dec 15, 2016, 7:49 PM

Posts: 4460
Location: Flintshire
Team(s): Bradford City

Post #3 of 40 (4693 views)
Shortcut
Re: [R.S.Cavendish] WPL to remain at 12 clubs [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The fans aren't happy -

https://clwbpeldroed.wordpress.com/...sh-premier-is-stale/

...but who cares about their opinion, eh?


gcnc
Man City Transfer Target!

Dec 15, 2016, 8:04 PM

Posts: 11382
Location: Pontypool
Team(s): Newport County

Post #4 of 40 (4681 views)
Shortcut
Re: [R.S.Cavendish] WPL to remain at 12 clubs [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
This is just a pack of lies from the FAW Council. It was only a few months ago at a meeting of the six most northern clubs that a vote of 5-1 to expand the league was passed.
At the most recent AGM two of the southern clubs proposed and seconded a motion to expand the league to 16 clubs. The motion was called "out of order" by the chairman.
Recently relegated clubs have stated that under no circumstances will they accept promotion back to the WPL while it has just 12 clubs.
Attendance figures are concocted while the stupidity of allowing full-time TNS to win the league each season sends the punters away to watch matches elsewhere.
Just look at the attendance figures for Llanelli Town and Briton Ferry in recent weeks. All way above the fantasy figures given out by WPL clubs (including Rhyl who are the worst offenders). I still remember the time Afan Lido gave out a WPL attendance figure of 89 and were duly rebuked by FAW officials who told them that the lowest figure allowed was to be 110.


Interesting to see that this week the Rhyl - TNS match attendance was widely publicised as 99, only for Rhyl then to issue a Twitter saying it was actually 199

https://twitter.com/...s/809388933121511424

With The New Saints pocketing 800,000 Euros from last summer's Champions League campaign, and then going unbeaten in their first 18 League games this season, there seems little danger of any freshness being breathed into the format by a close title race any time soon.


(This post was edited by gcnc on Dec 15, 2016, 8:13 PM)


Bantam Cymraeg
Chelsea Transfer Target


Dec 15, 2016, 8:07 PM

Posts: 4460
Location: Flintshire
Team(s): Bradford City

Post #5 of 40 (4676 views)
Shortcut
Re: [gcnc] WPL to remain at 12 clubs [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Have to admit I was surprised by the reported 99 figure. Rhyl are one of the better supported teams in the league, so even the improved figure of 199 would still be disappointing for them.


T P Johnson
Reserve Team Regular

Dec 17, 2016, 9:11 PM

Posts: 638
Location:
Team(s):

Post #6 of 40 (4279 views)
Shortcut
Re: [gcnc] WPL to remain at 12 clubs [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Only 15 clubs got the licence to play this season. Other than the big 4 or 5 countries others are reducing the number of teams in their top divisions.
If 4 extra teams make say 60 players why are they (players) not already playing at the highest level in Wales and are these players available anyway
If you play at the highest level of course there is no promotion only relegation and in Wales you only play 5 teams 4 times the same as in Scotland
I never complained when we were full time and good luck to TNS


Tim Johnson
In support of 12 teams and hoping we get there soon and Llanelli/ Caernarfon as well.


gcnc
Man City Transfer Target!

Dec 18, 2016, 9:16 AM

Posts: 11382
Location: Pontypool
Team(s): Newport County

Post #7 of 40 (4187 views)
Shortcut
Re: [T P Johnson] WPL to remain at 12 clubs [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Every one of the points that Tim makes is perfectly valid, and I, for one, still haven't read a cogently argued case for why expanding the WPL to sixteen clubs will lead to increased interest in the competition other than in the very short term. The dominance of the competition by The New Saints seems to be growing year by year, and as stated in my post above, everything points to that being maintained if not strengthened. The recreational nature of football in South Wales means there will always be a shortage of clubs in the south looking for promotion, and their access to the limited promotion spots will often be blocked by clubs who have no upward motivation, but enough money to pay the players in the south who are of WPL standard but themselves don't fancy interminable coach journeys to North Wales every fortnight. Cardiff Met with their access to external funding have proved an exception, and a superbly run community club like Barry Town United might be another, but I cannot see anyone else doing it.

Maybe the WPL / FAW need to be thinking outside the box. I wonder if anyone there has thought of making overtures to another club in South Wales whose immediate inclusion might really shake things up - the club presently 92nd in the English system. Yes, at the moment both the club and the fans would tell the FAW to 'go away', but I wonder if that might still be the case in April or May. Most of the fans of that club know that if they drop out of the League again there would be no way back a second time. The club needs to get out of its present home where they appear to be loathed by the landlords, and where the pitch isn't up to Conference standard let alone Football League, while all the time, just a mile away, at Dragon Park, there is a WPL compliant ground hardly ever used.

No I can't see it happening either, but stranger things have happened!


Counting Crows
Youth Team Star


Dec 19, 2016, 10:37 AM

Posts: 281
Location: Caerdydd
Team(s): Cwmbrn Town

Post #8 of 40 (3967 views)
Shortcut
Re: [gcnc] WPL to remain at 12 clubs [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I think a better option would be a second national division - two divisions of 10?

Promotion and relegation would be guaranteed between the two but with a "safety net" of not dropping out of the top echelon after perhaps investing in achieving the DL.

Access from the feeder leagues to WPL2 could be organised in a similar way as Scotland perhaps?

However, you'll not be able to ban clubs from being full time, so unless Mr Harris gets bored or retires...



www.cwmbrantownafc.co.uk
https://twitter.com/#!/CwmbranTown


pokal02
First Team Star

Dec 19, 2016, 12:00 PM

Posts: 2302
Location: Cockfosters
Team(s): Barnet, Cockfosters, Truro City, Udinese

Post #9 of 40 (3917 views)
Shortcut
Re: [gcnc] WPL to remain at 12 clubs [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Surely it would make more sense to try and twist Merthyr or Colwyn Bay's arms as they are 3 levels lower than Newport (although I suspect the answer would be the same)?


gcnc
Man City Transfer Target!

Dec 19, 2016, 2:02 PM

Posts: 11382
Location: Pontypool
Team(s): Newport County

Post #10 of 40 (3856 views)
Shortcut
Re: [pokal02] WPL to remain at 12 clubs [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Surely it would make more sense to try and twist Merthyr or Colwyn Bay's arms as they are 3 levels lower than Newport (although I suspect the answer would be the same)?


In many ways you're right, but at the moment perhaps Newport County would be the more susceptible to a WPL approach.

I've always assumed, rightly or wrongly, that the FAW has the long term aim of getting all, or as many as possible of, the six Welsh clubs playing in the English system to join the Welsh set up. What the FAW failed to achieve by force in the early 1990s they would be more than happy to achieve by stealth, taking one club at a time as the opportunity arose.

Newport County's dream was always to get back to the Football League. While that was the ambition, and certainly when it was achieved, the FAW would never persuade them to leave the English system. Things at the club now, though, are at the lowest ebb I can remember since the club was founded in 1989. We are bottom of the league, playing on the worst pitch of the 92, our sugar-daddy millionaire backer has gone, and we have falling attendance figures. Many supporters acknowledge that if we get relegated this year, there will be no way back a second time.

I simply wonder whether this is the best chance the FAW will ever have to entice Newport County into the fold. Tell them that they would have to join the Welsh pyramid at the bottom and the FAW will be told where to shove their offer. Make Newport County a cheeky offer of being the thirteenth club in the WPL next year, and I wonder whether the club would be tempted if the alternative was the Conference. That might also give the WPL the much needed shot-in-the-arm, and TNS a bit of serious competition.

The Newport - Plymouth replay on Wednesday evening this week is crucial. Win that, and the money from the 3rd Round tie at Anfield may mean we can strengthen the squad and escape the drop. But if we lose to Argyle ....


(This post was edited by gcnc on Dec 19, 2016, 2:06 PM)


aicwhu
First Team Sub

Dec 19, 2016, 3:56 PM

Posts: 990
Location: pershore
Team(s): west ham

Post #11 of 40 (3804 views)
Shortcut
Re: [gcnc] WPL to remain at 12 clubs [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Not sure I follow your logic ; being bottom of the league is no fun but Newport have come a long way and have done well to re-join the League
Newport County were no great shakes as a league club so why expect more this time round
And the conference is a good competitive league just one level lower so what is the problem?
Most clubs have to accept relegation occasionally as that is the nature of a pyramid

andrew c


Tykeoldboy
Chelsea Transfer Target


Dec 19, 2016, 4:42 PM

Posts: 3267
Location:
Team(s): Doncaster Rovers, Everton, Mablethorpe

Post #12 of 40 (3777 views)
Shortcut
Re: [aicwhu] WPL to remain at 12 clubs [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

If the WPL make an approach for Newport then why not Wrexham as well. I'm surprised that both Cardiff City and Swansea City don't have academy sides in the WPL, under a different guise. This would give their academy players regular meaningful competitive games, including possible European football.



The feeling of utter devastation when you pick up your mug and realise you already finished your tea.


007Dale
First Team Star

Dec 19, 2016, 8:40 PM

Posts: 1718
Location:
Team(s): St Albans City, Leicester City

Post #13 of 40 (3678 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Counting Crows] WPL to remain at 12 clubs [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The way I see it, a nation splits it's divisions according to the spread and depth of its clubs. Hence why in England we have divisions of 20 and in Scotland there are 12.

In reality in England, beyond the top 6 or 7 you could have any from 30-40 different clubs who could command 20k plus crowds in the premier league.

In Scotland, when you get past the first 20 clubs, any four figure crowd is a bonus.

This is why in Wales the decision to have e a small division of 12 teams is bizarre. You could have a division of 20 teams and the spread of clubs would still be those with a couple of hundred in attendance. Ok, you may have to relax the ground grading a bit, but the variance in size is small, probably the smallest in Europe.

It would be a different story if Newport, Wrexham and Merthyr were in the Welsh League, then the spread would be large and a smaller division may be appropriate.

As it stands, i fail to see why you restrict the league to eleven shit clubs and one less shit club.


T P Johnson
Reserve Team Regular

Dec 19, 2016, 8:57 PM

Posts: 638
Location:
Team(s):

Post #14 of 40 (3658 views)
Shortcut
Re: [007Dale] WPL to remain at 12 clubs [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Don't think you know anything about Welsh football do you.


Tim Johnson


007Dale
First Team Star

Dec 19, 2016, 9:02 PM

Posts: 1718
Location:
Team(s): St Albans City, Leicester City

Post #15 of 40 (3652 views)
Shortcut
Re: [T P Johnson] WPL to remain at 12 clubs [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Don't think you know anything about Welsh football do you.


Tim Johnson


Please enlighten me


T P Johnson
Reserve Team Regular

Dec 19, 2016, 9:28 PM

Posts: 638
Location:
Team(s):

Post #16 of 40 (3622 views)
Shortcut
Re: [007Dale] WPL to remain at 12 clubs [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Should be obvious but you want to be enlightened how about your final line


Tim Johnson


buckielugger
Youth Team Star


Dec 19, 2016, 10:00 PM

Posts: 288
Location: on a hill top in wales
Team(s):

Post #17 of 40 (3572 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Tykeoldboy] WPL to remain at 12 clubs [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Can anything be revisited with UEFA to allow Welsh Premier Lge membership for the main Welsh clubs?
Clearly they will not want to leave the English Leagues (and that includes Newport)...
BUT...could joint membership be permissible?
Swansea & Cardiff will easily have the resources to field a second team in the WPL and quite possibly so would Wrexham.
And Newport in a better state also.
To get avoid duplication, the clubs would agree to only be able to qualify for UEFA competitions from one league. Return to the Welsh Cup should also be considered.

Also I certainly do not criticise TNS for dominating currently, they are no different to top clubs in many countries who go through long periods of unchallenged success, but it always ends eventually.
I am sure though TNS would welcome Cardiff, Swansea etc 2nd teams to be worthy rivals.


007Dale
First Team Star

Dec 19, 2016, 10:38 PM

Posts: 1718
Location:
Team(s): St Albans City, Leicester City

Post #18 of 40 (3548 views)
Shortcut
Re: [T P Johnson] WPL to remain at 12 clubs [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Should be obvious but you want to be enlightened how about your final line


Tim Johnson


Frankly, I thought that was the most accurate part of my post!


kirby knitters
Qatar World Cup bid member!

Dec 19, 2016, 10:53 PM

Posts: 18073
Location: Kirby Muxloe
Team(s): Hinckley United FC.

Post #19 of 40 (3526 views)
Shortcut
Re: [007Dale] WPL to remain at 12 clubs [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Should be obvious but you want to be enlightened how about your final line


Tim Johnson


Frankly, I thought that was the most accurate part of my post!

Shit teams or shit clubs?

Football isn't great apart the obvious one but the clubs i've visited in the WPL are anything but shit, just nice friendly people doing their bit for their clubs as loads do at all levels of the game below the greed is good mob.


paulh66
Qatar World Cup bid member!


Dec 19, 2016, 11:09 PM

Posts: 19249
Location: Surrey
Team(s): Tranmere Rovers, South Liverpool (the South will rise again), Cammell Laird

Post #20 of 40 (3512 views)
Shortcut
Re: [007Dale] WPL to remain at 12 clubs [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Don't think you know anything about Welsh football do you.
Tim Johnson


Please enlighten me


Go and watch some games there. That might enlighten you.


Canary
Youth Team Sub


Dec 22, 2016, 9:30 AM

Posts: 110
Location:
Team(s):

Post #21 of 40 (3202 views)
Shortcut
Re: [paulh66] WPL to remain at 12 clubs [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Can we just clarify one thing. I thought that having reserve sides or academy teams in a national league would mean that UEFA would no longer regard it as a national league and so the gateway to European competitions would be shut. Same if you had a north section and a south section, playing off for a championship. Am I right, Tim?


GSB
Youth Team Star

Dec 22, 2016, 11:01 AM

Posts: 362
Location:
Team(s): Newport County

Post #22 of 40 (3175 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Canary] WPL to remain at 12 clubs [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

All those years ago, did the FAW ever approach UEFA with a properly thought through plan for southern and northern championships with the top [insert number here] in each playing off to decide a national champion? If they had, maybe a dozen Welsh clubs which have gone to the wall since wouldn't have.

The post-1989 Newport have only been relegated once, which is pretty darn good, but the idea County could never return if relegated is just histrionics. I suspect salvation will lie in playing on an artificial pitch, which will be allowed sooner rather than later.

If the club ever did fold it's possible a new one could be started by people whose ambitions extend to playing Gap Connah's Quay four times a year in perpetuity with no promotion available, but I suspect support would be sparse.

On the reserve/academy thing, look no further than the EFL Trophy for a competition (which wasn't that great in the first place) being ruined overnight by bringing in such teams.


leohoenig
Administrator

Dec 22, 2016, 12:29 PM

Posts: 13539
Location: Outer Cheltenhamshire
Team(s): Cheltenham Town

Post #23 of 40 (3143 views)
Shortcut
Re: [GSB] WPL to remain at 12 clubs [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I don't think the addition of second strings, however named would be good for the Welsh National League. UEFA have probably not given this much thought as there is little comparable. I also have never heard or read a rule that would prevent the national champion being decided by Championship group after two regional divisions. Its the solution I would be looking at if I was a FAW official.



Fat AND Pompous.
The proof that you can have too much of a good thing
Now blogging at http://www.leohoenig.com



Canary
Youth Team Sub


Dec 22, 2016, 12:32 PM

Posts: 110
Location:
Team(s):

Post #24 of 40 (3139 views)
Shortcut
Re: [leohoenig] WPL to remain at 12 clubs [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

"did the FAW ever approach UEFA with a properly thought through plan for southern and northern championships with the top [insert number here] in each playing off to decide a national champion? "

The answer is yes and they were told by UEFA it was a non starter.


007Dale
First Team Star

Dec 22, 2016, 1:16 PM

Posts: 1718
Location:
Team(s): St Albans City, Leicester City

Post #25 of 40 (3111 views)
Shortcut
Re: [GSB] WPL to remain at 12 clubs [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
If the club ever did fold it's possible a new one could be started by people whose ambitions extend to playing Gap Connah's Quay four times a year in perpetuity with no promotion available, but I suspect support would be sparse.


Which is exactly why no self respecting club would switch from the English pyramid system to the dead-end WPL. I'm sure there are a few currently in the Welsh system that regret switching when the WPL was formed.

First page Previous page 1 2 Next page Last page  View All
 
 


free hit counters

Search for (options) HOSTED BY SUMMIT SOCCER v.1.2.3