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Pubs clsoing down / change of use

 

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acmold
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Apr 17, 2015, 9:07 AM

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Pubs clsoing down / change of use Can't Post or

Sure this was covered elsewhere maybe in the Weatherspoons thread but it has been brought to my attention that even more pubs in Oxford (mostly east of the Cherwell) have gone or are going.
In the past 10 to 15 many in the Abingson Road area have gone or been transformed into other things, one a Tesco Metro. Think one of the remaining ones is up for lease at present - Duke of Monmouth,
In Cowley where such pubs as the Exeter Hall have morphed into Indian type restaurant, Donington Arms ditto. The Nelson is boarded up as is Nuffield Arms. Most of the pubs in Littlemore went years ago, one in Sandford forget the name went a year or two back. In Headington I've been told the Fairview is now boarded up and plans are to transform it into flats. The Quarry Gate is awaiting the same fate. Both of Barton's pubs went years ago, three if you count the Shotover.
I know this is a country wide thing but add to this the number of established clubs that have gone, particularly in Headington and the area does seem to have an above average closer rate. The bottom line is drink is very expensive in the area, housing and living costs are very expensive and wages on the whole are very low.


Rob North
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Apr 17, 2015, 2:15 PM

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Post #2 of 52 (18410 views)
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Re: [acmold] Pubs clsoing down / change of use [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The Cottage Inn, Hospital Hill, Dunfermline has now been split between a vet's surgery and a branch of PaintShed. It closed briefly a few years back, was refurbished and opened briefly again as a pub, but then was closed for two or three years before current tenants moved in.
The Inn At The Park in Duloch Park aka Tescoville was built and opened not 10 years ago, then became an Indian Restaurant and is now something else that I can't recall! The Indian restaurant was actually very good but the owners were forced out by a huge hike in rent.
I'd have to have a search but I'm sure there would be a few ex-pubs in the town now serving other purposes.
On the other hand the Guildhall building has become the Guildhall and Linen Exchange, the ubiquitous Wetherspoons. The building was falling into disrepair and does at least look somewhere near its former glory, even if not all would approve.


Cowden Andy
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Apr 19, 2015, 10:18 AM

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Post #3 of 52 (17486 views)
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Re: [Rob North] Pubs clsoing down / change of use [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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The Cottage Inn, Hospital Hill, Dunfermline has now been split between a vet's surgery and a branch of PaintShed. It closed briefly a few years back, was refurbished and opened briefly again as a pub, but then was closed for two or three years before current tenants moved in.
The Inn At The Park in Duloch Park aka Tescoville was built and opened not 10 years ago, then became an Indian Restaurant and is now something else that I can't recall! The Indian restaurant was actually very good but the owners were forced out by a huge hike in rent.
I'd have to have a search but I'm sure there would be a few ex-pubs in the town now serving other purposes.
On the other hand the Guildhall building has become the Guildhall and Linen Exchange, the ubiquitous Wetherspoons. The building was falling into disrepair and does at least look somewhere near its former glory, even if not all would approve.
The Indian at Duloch (Bombay Brasserie) is now a Barhead Travel, who have moved from their wee shop just across from it. In Cowdenbeath the old Kirkford Tavern is now a corner shop.



Oxford Stone
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Apr 20, 2015, 9:36 AM

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Re: [Cowden Andy] Pubs clsoing down / change of use [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Here's 32 gone from Oxford since I moved there in Sep 2000 (yes it's on a spreadsheet. Of course it is)

Wharf House - flats Holywells - was a shop now flats? Marlborough House one of the Abingdon Road casualties King of Prussia - pizza? Was a squat and caught fire at one point Elm Tree - now back to being a "craft ale" bar having been a Chinese? Prince of Ales - Nando's Cowley Road Horse & Jockey - flats Globe - erm... was that in Jericho? flats then Friar Marston Road - Tesco or not Tesco that is the question Plasterers Arms - flats Market Tavern - wagamama Old School - Indian Fox & Hounds - Tesco Exeter Hall - Moslem centre - not even an Indian restaurant any more General Elliott - actually reopening! Duke of York - demolished to make way for shopping centre revamp Somerset - cocktail bar? Marston area Donnington Arms - Nepalese restaurant Temple Bar - café Woodstock Arms - demolished Cavalier - demolished for housing Brewery Gate - housing Turl - university took it back for function rooms Three Horseshoes - house Shelley Arms - ? Bricklayers Arms - housing Osney Arms - B&B George - music shop Fairview - see acmold's notes Nelson - closed down after drug bust Quarry Gate - housing soon? Duke of Monmouth - see acmold's notes

And since I moved to Abingdon 2 have gone 1 has opened (Spoons of course) one is pretty much just a restaurant but others are thriving. Nags Head closed for a while but now CAMRA award winner; Grapes opposite Spoons against the odds. Saxton Arms, the archetypal council estate pub, probable next casualty


sandhurstbee
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Apr 21, 2015, 1:10 PM

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Re: [Oxford Stone] Pubs clsoing down / change of use [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Haven`t done too bad around here though the memory of The Duke Of Wellington has taken a bit of a bashing with The Iron Duke and The Waterloo Hotel in Crowthorne both being redeveloped for housing. This goes alongside The Wellington Hotel which closed in the 1970`s by Crowthorne Station. This leaves just 2 pubs in Crowthorne, The Prince and The Crowthorne Inn. In nearby Sandhurst comes another blow for The Duke as The Dukes Head is currently shut though being advertised to let as another pub. Another local was The Queen on the A30 in Blackwater which closed a couple of years back and has had a couple of reincarnations as Indian Restaurants but when I drove past last week I noted this is now a Tesco Express.



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philglossop
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Apr 23, 2015, 3:30 PM

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Post #6 of 52 (16814 views)
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Re: [sandhurstbee] Pubs clsoing down / change of use [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Lets take an area of Plymouth (Stonehouse) where I ran a pub for 4 years and list the closures that I recall from 2006 to today.

Britannia Inn- Octagon Street - now a Restart rehab centre
Olive Tree - Anstis Street - private house
Francis Arms (my old pub) Francis Street - Restart rehab centre
Wyndham Arms - Wyndham Square - Restart Rehab centre
Wolsdon Inn - Wolsdon Street - Flats
Duke of Somerset - Wolsdon Street - in total ruins but being turned into a house
Somerset Arms- North Road West- recently shut I think?
Archer Inn - Archer Terrace - private house
Patna Inn - Patna Place - flats
Queen Adelaide- Adelaide Street - house
White Lion - Clarence Place- house
Prince Alfred - Clarence Place - house
Dog and Duck- Arundel Crescent- demolished now flats

This leaves- Melbourne Inn, Duchy of Cornwall, The Office, Famous Firkin, No 10 Club and The Clarence.

You can walk from the No 10 Club to The Office as the furthest in around 10 minutes.

Naturally within 10 minutes of all these pubs is a Weatherspoons- the wonderful (not) Union Rooms. Add that these were mostly small back street boozers with no food - The Francis was literally a front room! it's not a real surprise.


colpic
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Apr 23, 2015, 8:17 PM

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Post #7 of 52 (16739 views)
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Re: [philglossop] Pubs clsoing down / change of use [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Independent small businesses struggle to compete with big companies like Wetherspoons who have much greater purchasing power.

Wetherspoons opened a pub in the small market town of Brigg a few weeks ago. Today it was reported that two of the local licensees have given notice to the pub companies as they can no longer run viable businesses. The Pubco will no doubt find someone else to take over but when the inevitable failures happen, these pubs will close and never reopen. Make of that what you will but personally I like to have a range of options as to where I drink, even if it costs me a few pence more. In my opinion JDW are directly responsible for a number of pub closures which is why I treat them very much as a last resort. Like Tescos actually....



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DonQuixote
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Post #8 of 52 (16719 views)
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Re: [colpic] Pubs clsoing down / change of use [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

A lot of the problem is down to the way the pub managers have
been hamstrung by a lack of alternative purchasing over the years.

I may be wrong but our alcohol sales thingy is unique in the world,
whereas, say Spain for example, you get a license from the local
'ajuntament' then buy your wares from who and wherever.



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richiejenn
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Apr 23, 2015, 10:56 PM

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Post #9 of 52 (16677 views)
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Re: [philglossop] Pubs clsoing down / change of use [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Lets take an area of Plymouth (Stonehouse) where I ran a pub for 4 years and list the closures that I recall from 2006 to today.

Britannia Inn- Octagon Street - now a Restart rehab centre
Olive Tree - Anstis Street - private house
Francis Arms (my old pub) Francis Street - Restart rehab centre
Wyndham Arms - Wyndham Square - Restart Rehab centre
Wolsdon Inn - Wolsdon Street - Flats
Duke of Somerset - Wolsdon Street - in total ruins but being turned into a house
Somerset Arms- North Road West- recently shut I think?
Archer Inn - Archer Terrace - private house
Patna Inn - Patna Place - flats
Queen Adelaide- Adelaide Street - house
White Lion - Clarence Place- house
Prince Alfred - Clarence Place - house
Dog and Duck- Arundel Crescent- demolished now flats

This leaves- Melbourne Inn, Duchy of Cornwall, The Office, Famous Firkin, No 10 Club and The Clarence.

You can walk from the No 10 Club to The Office as the furthest in around 10 minutes.

Naturally within 10 minutes of all these pubs is a Weatherspoons- the wonderful (not) Union Rooms. Add that these were mostly small back street boozers with no food - The Francis was literally a front room! it's not a real surprise.


Phil - Is the Notte Inn still there near the rail station?


Mr. T
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Apr 23, 2015, 10:56 PM

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Post #10 of 52 (16677 views)
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Re: [DonQuixote] Pubs clsoing down / change of use [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
A lot of the problem is down to the way the pub managers have been hamstrung by a lack of alternative purchasing over the years.

I may be wrong but our alcohol sales thingy is unique in the world, whereas, say Spain for example, you get a license from the local 'ajuntament' then buy your wares from who and wherever.


Genuinely independent outlets can do this – there just aren't many of them.

The 1988 MMC report on the brewing industry turned out to be a disastrous intervention in the 'market'. It was because of that that eventually so many pubs were sold and sold again, the cost going up (especially after 2000) to the point at which the owners couldn't recover the cost of purchase without whacking up rents or beer prices – or both. Many were sold off for development to cover the losses.

Recent changes in the law will allow tenants of large pubcos (500+) to demand a rent review and take the option of a market rent only and buy their beer on the open market (the pubcos and big beer producers had some cosy arrangements).

Another change in the same bill (Small Business, Enterprise and Employment) will provide protection for tenants if their pub is sold to a company outside the statutory code e.g. a family brewer.


Dave R
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Apr 24, 2015, 12:32 AM

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Post #11 of 52 (16637 views)
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Re: [richiejenn] Pubs clsoing down / change of use [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The Notte Inn is still open.it is on Notte Street which is not really near the railway station. From the station you walk through the city centre, towards the Barbican. Probably a good mile from the station.


acmold
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Apr 24, 2015, 1:25 PM

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Post #12 of 52 (16470 views)
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Re: [colpic] Pubs clsoing down / change of use [In reply to] Can't Post or

Of the pubs I mentioned only a few can be directly effected by Weatherspoons, there are only 3 in Oxford and 2 of those are in the city centre within 400 or 500 yards of each other. It's more down to the cost of living around here and low wages of many in the east of the city.


oxpete
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Apr 24, 2015, 3:20 PM

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Post #13 of 52 (16430 views)
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Re: [acmold] Pubs clsoing down / change of use [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Of the pubs I mentioned only a few can be directly effected by Weatherspoons, there are only 3 in Oxford and 2 of those are in the city centre within 400 or 500 yards of each other. It's more down to the cost of living around here and low wages of many in the east of the city.


Another reason for the rate at which pubs are closing down in Oxford is that the students (and most young people for that matter) are drinking less alcohol and spending their money on other things.

I come into contact with a lot of students through my work, and most of them these days would rate having a good quality phone/computer/i-pad as much more important in their life than drinking alcohol (or buying music, hence the awful collapse in the number of record shops in Oxford too). When I was a student in the late 80s in Swansea (admittedly, a very cheap city to live in, during a much cheaper era in which to be a student), the only things for me to spend money on were booze, watching the Swans and (occasionally) watching Glamorgan CCC (all very inexpensive pass-times in those days). Students these days have other interests and priorities, as well as generally working much harder on their studies - booze for them simply isn't as important to them.

That goes for other sections of society too. There simply isn't the same large groups of sailors roaming Plymouth or Portsmouth these days to support the number of pubs there were even just ten or fifteen years ago, nor squadies in Aldershot, nor dockers in London, nor biscuit-bakers in Reading, etc. etc. There are so many other distractions in life these days, and the (sometimes messy) habit of drinking alcohol (and perhaps the hangovers that go with it) simply no longer fits into many people's lives.

Incidentally, I remember drinking in The Plasterers at the foot of Headington Hill on a Friday afternoon (in early 2003?). When I passed it on the following Monday morning, it had been closed and bulldozed in double-quick time!


Part-Timer
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Apr 24, 2015, 4:24 PM

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Post #14 of 52 (16411 views)
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Re: [oxpete] Pubs clsoing down / change of use [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Of the pubs I mentioned only a few can be directly effected by Weatherspoons, there are only 3 in Oxford and 2 of those are in the city centre within 400 or 500 yards of each other. It's more down to the cost of living around here and low wages of many in the east of the city.


Another reason for the rate at which pubs are closing down in Oxford is that the students (and most young people for that matter) are drinking less alcohol and spending their money on other things.

I come into contact with a lot of students through my work, and most of them these days would rate having a good quality phone/computer/i-pad as much more important in their life than drinking alcohol (or buying music, hence the awful collapse in the number of record shops in Oxford too). When I was a student in the late 80s in Swansea (admittedly, a very cheap city to live in, during a much cheaper era in which to be a student), the only things for me to spend money on were booze, watching the Swans and (occasionally) watching Glamorgan CCC (all very inexpensive pass-times in those days). Students these days have other interests and priorities, as well as generally working much harder on their studies - booze for them simply isn't as important to them.

That goes for other sections of society too. There simply isn't the same large groups of sailors roaming Plymouth or Portsmouth these days to support the number of pubs there were even just ten or fifteen years ago, nor squadies in Aldershot, nor dockers in London, nor biscuit-bakers in Reading, etc. etc. There are so many other distractions in life these days, and the (sometimes messy) habit of drinking alcohol (and perhaps the hangovers that go with it) simply no longer fits into many people's lives.

I think you are right but I don't quite go along with the idea that young people drink less than our generation did. My two student-age children drink as much as I used to; they just don't do it in pubs and clubs. Youngsters today get together in each others' homes (or mine during holidays) and drink alcohol that they have bought from cheaper outlets (or filched from my stock Mad).

Or maybe my children and their friends are just budding alcoholics. Crazy


Rob North
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Apr 27, 2015, 9:42 AM

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Re: [Part-Timer] Pubs clsoing down / change of use [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The Lyne Tavern in Netherton Broad Street Dunfermline has now become a tapas restaurant Tapas Ducal.
The proprietors of Tapas Ducal were previously located at the top Cowdenbeath High Street as La Ducal. That was vacated, along with North End Park football ground, as part of a plan to redevelop that area into a Tesco. Tesco cut backs have now knocked that one on the head.


John403
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Apr 29, 2015, 2:17 PM

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Re: [acmold] Pubs clsoing down / change of use [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Whilst they are still classed as pubs I'm getting a bit tired of pubs round my way (South london) becoming prodominatly eating establishments. I've grown up going in loads of Youngs pubs and they all seem to be closing for refurb and opening three months later as basically restaurants. I went into one near me on Sunday and if you were not eating then it felt as though they didn't want your custom.


sandhurstbee
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Jun 2, 2015, 1:15 PM

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The Sun & Stars in Fifield, Berkshire all boarded up when I drove past this morning.



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oxpete
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Jun 18, 2015, 1:45 PM

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Post #18 of 52 (15378 views)
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Re: [Oxford Stone] Pubs clsoing down / change of use [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Here's 32 gone from Oxford since I moved there in Sep 2000 (yes it's on a spreadsheet. Of course it is)

Wharf House - flats Holywells - was a shop now flats? Marlborough House one of the Abingdon Road casualties King of Prussia - pizza? Was a squat and caught fire at one point Elm Tree - now back to being a "craft ale" bar having been a Chinese? Prince of Ales - Nando's Cowley Road Horse & Jockey - flats Globe - erm... was that in Jericho? flats then Friar Marston Road - Tesco or not Tesco that is the question Plasterers Arms - flats Market Tavern - wagamama Old School - Indian Fox & Hounds - Tesco Exeter Hall - Moslem centre - not even an Indian restaurant any more General Elliott - actually reopening! Duke of York - demolished to make way for shopping centre revamp Somerset - cocktail bar? Marston area Donnington Arms - Nepalese restaurant Temple Bar - café Woodstock Arms - demolished Cavalier - demolished for housing Brewery Gate - housing Turl - university took it back for function rooms Three Horseshoes - house Shelley Arms - ? Bricklayers Arms - housing Osney Arms - B&B George - music shop Fairview - see acmold's notes Nelson - closed down after drug bust Quarry Gate - housing soon? Duke of Monmouth - see acmold's notes


You can add The Ampleforth Arms, presently boarded up in Risinghurst estate, to that list now. Successive landlords have failed to make the style of living they've wanted from it, but the locals seem to believe the place has a future, meaning its in the balance as to whether the closure is long- or short-term.

Local Risinghurst lad CS Lewis (writer of the Narnia stuff, rather than Morse's sidekick) used to drink in The Ampleforth, though unfortunately for the pub, the coachloads of American and Japanese tourists tend to flock to The Eagle & Child in the city centre instead.

CS Lewis's greatest claim to fame, however, is the fact that he died on the same day as JFK, with the result that the world's news-reporting media (bar perhaps the Oxford Mail!) totally ignored his passing. Hoppers who also tick the burial sites of the famous may like to know that CS Lewis's grave is at Holy Trinity Church in nearby Headington Quarry, not far from Margaret Road recreation ground - site of the very first football match played by Headington/Oxford United FC, on 13th January 1894. The Hellenic ground of Headington Amateurs is a ten minute walk away.


(This post was edited by oxpete on Jun 18, 2015, 1:49 PM)


acmold
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Post #19 of 52 (15342 views)
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Re: [oxpete] Pubs clsoing down / change of use [In reply to] Can't Post or

The King of Prussia site is now a Co-op though there are 3 Pizza parlours within 100 yards plus three other takeaways. Brannos is the best value for Pizza, the Chip Shop next to the Co-op just before Papa Johns is very good for Fish & Chips, in fact they do Cod Roe for just £1. When I was a kid it was a proper row of shops and there was no need for two betting shops in those days. Though it has lasted better than some of the other 1930's estate shops, the one in Florence Park has just a General Store and Hairdresser left plus the Jolly Post Boys. The Westbury Crescent / Mayfair Road one has just one shop and Executive Alarms HQ (owned by the Keowns) the Queens Westbury which used to stage soul discos (Thursday and Sunday) when I was a lad is long gone. And the row in Herschal Crescent I think has totally gone now, no pub ever there though.


jrev61
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Jun 18, 2015, 7:25 PM

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Re: [oxpete] Pubs clsoing down / change of use [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To



You can add The Ampleforth Arms, presently boarded up in Risinghurst estate, to that list now. Successive landlords have failed to make the style of living they've wanted from it, but the locals seem to believe the place has a future, meaning its in the balance as to whether the closure is long- or short-term.

Local Risinghurst lad CS Lewis (writer of the Narnia stuff, rather than Morse's sidekick) used to drink in The Ampleforth, though unfortunately for the pub, the coachloads of American and Japanese tourists tend to flock to The Eagle & Child in the city centre instead.

CS Lewis's greatest claim to fame, however, is the fact that he died on the same day as JFK, with the result that the world's news-reporting media (bar perhaps the Oxford Mail!) totally ignored his passing. Hoppers who also tick the burial sites of the famous may like to know that CS Lewis's grave is at Holy Trinity Church in nearby Headington Quarry, not far from Margaret Road recreation ground - site of the very first football match played by Headington/Oxford United FC, on 13th January 1894. The Hellenic ground of Headington Amateurs is a ten minute walk away.
Aldous Huxley also died the same day as JFK. This is referred to in the Sheryl Crow song 'Run baby run'.




jrev61


acmold
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Jun 18, 2015, 7:44 PM

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Re: [jrev61] Pubs clsoing down / change of use [In reply to] Can't Post or

The actual pitch Headington Quarry played Headington on is not quite where Quarry Rec is Most of the area was developed in circa 1934 and prior to that date games were played where Mark Road is. The whole area from Rock Edge and Titup to St Anne's Road and then to the Hollow was just fields. The pitch may have been behind the village hall which is opposite to the dressing rooms at the Rec Those were constructed by the Nomads between the late 50's and early 60's the clubs halcyon days which saw at it's peak the most famous cup final victory of 1966 or that's what the Oxford Mail said 


buncranaboy
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The actual pitch Headington Quarry played Headington on is not quite where Quarry Rec is Most of the area was developed in circa 1934 and prior to that date games were played where Mark Road is. The whole area from Rock Edge and Titup to St Anne's Road and then to the Hollow was just fields. The pitch may have been behind the village hall which is opposite to the dressing rooms at the Rec Those were constructed by the Nomads between the late 50's and early 60's the clubs halcyon days which saw at it's peak the most famous cup final victory of 1966 or that's what the Oxford Mail said



This is an example of what gets my goal. You go on to a beer/pub thread and there's someone banging on about dead people or Oxford with little if any pub-related content whatsoever Shocked


gcnc
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CS Lewis's greatest claim to fame, however, is the fact that he died on the same day as JFK.


That would be a daft thing to say even if Lewis wasn't one of the finest English writers of the twentieth century, and one of the greatest Christian scholars of history. If what you said was true, everybody who died that day would be famous as a result.
Mother Teresa died the same week as Princess Diana, but they were both famous for other things too!


(This post was edited by gcnc on Jun 18, 2015, 9:16 PM)


acmold
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Jun 18, 2015, 9:46 PM

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Re: [buncranaboy] Pubs clsoing down / change of use [In reply to] Can't Post or

There was a planning application to open a new pub in Cowley in the John Allen Centre this appears to have dead a death It would have been 100 yards from the William Morris Weatherspoons and was to be a Hungry House. If it were me I would have called it the William Morris and filled it with arty farty things to avoid confusion.


Part-Timer
Chelsea Transfer Target

Jun 19, 2015, 9:52 AM

Posts: 4220
Location: Huntingdonshire
Team(s): Brentford, Bradford City, Peterborough United, Yaxley

Post #25 of 52 (15108 views)
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Re: [acmold] Pubs clsoing down / change of use [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Has the site suddenly got a problem with animal words? Buncranaboy is banging on about things getting his goal while acmold is talking about building Hungry Houses. Surely these should be goats and horses. Smile

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