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Home: All Other Football Interests: Premier League & Football League:
Liverpool, Hodgson and McNulty

 



rainjar
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Oct 4, 2010, 1:29 AM

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Liverpool, Hodgson and McNulty Can't Post or Reply Privately

My post on a BBC blog on 30 June 2010:

"217. At 2:29pm on 30 Jun 2010, R Nair wrote:

....

It was reported a couple of days ago that Hodgson wanted a guarantee of transfer funds before moving to Liverpool - http://www.goal.com/...ransfer-funds-before

Does anyone believe he got a guarantee?

....

Money can buy anything. Hicks & Gillett may not have enough for a substantial transfer fund (without selling first), but they have enough to buy loyalty from a quiet, stable, manager, and good press.

....

Liverpool to face relegation within 5 years."
Perhaps sooner.

I still think well of Hodgson though. He's taken on an almost impossible task, and I hope he's well paid for it.

On the other hand, Phil McNulty must surely be one of the worst football writers ever, let alone for the BBC. "Hodgson perfect for Liverpool"???



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UKPunk
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Oct 4, 2010, 10:58 PM

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Re: [rainjar] Liverpool, Hodgson and McNulty [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Liverpool to face relegation within 5 years."

Perhaps sooner.

Utter rubbish!! There's more chance of Susan Boyle winning Miss World.



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Garrincha's dog
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Oct 4, 2010, 11:23 PM

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Re: [UKPunk] Liverpool, Hodgson and McNulty [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Must admit last season I looked at Liverpool and thought that without Reina, Gerrard and Torres, their squad looked like relegation candidates.

This season I think take away Reina and they look like strugglers.

Once you lose a player of the quality of Alonso, a team full of players desperate to be rid of the ball, will find the going difficult.


UKPunk
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Oct 4, 2010, 11:28 PM

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Re: [Garrincha's dog] Liverpool, Hodgson and McNulty [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I honestly don't believe they will go down this season or indeed in the next five years. We're only in October and Liverpool are only five points off a top 4 place. Even with their problems I'd be very surprised if they didn't at least finish in the top half of the table.



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Garrincha's dog
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Oct 4, 2010, 11:31 PM

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Re: [UKPunk] Liverpool, Hodgson and McNulty [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I doubt they will go down too, BUT I think that their current squad are nearer to being Relegation fodder than they are to being a top 4 side. Compare the Liverpool squad to that of Spurs or Man City, a European placing at the end of the season looks a bit optimistic.


sandhurstbee
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Oct 5, 2010, 1:14 PM

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Re: [Garrincha's dog] Liverpool, Hodgson and McNulty [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Torres will be gone in January, as soon as he felt his leg go he wanted to come off rather than try to play through it. His body language is crying out to get away.



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buncranaboy
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Oct 5, 2010, 1:25 PM

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In Reply To
I still think well of Hodgson though. He's taken on an almost impossible task, and I hope he's well paid for it.

What impossible task was he charged with ? No Reds fan expected Champions League football at the end of the season. He was seen as a safe pair of hands to tide things over until the ownership issue was resolved and re-investment in the squad could recommence. I don't think for one minute that they'll finish anywhere near where they currently are and while the weakness of the squad Benitez assembled has been brutally exposed, the relative embarrassment of mid-table will probably be the club's fate. And yes, I fully expect Torres to go and I can't blame him. He deserves better than being served by Lucas Leiva, Maxi Rodriguez, Christian Poulsen and Al Bundy.


Fanatic
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Oct 5, 2010, 1:45 PM

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Re: [UKPunk] Liverpool, Hodgson and McNulty [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Liverpool to face relegation within 5 years."

Perhaps sooner.

Utter rubbish!! There's more chance of Susan Boyle winning Miss World.



It wouldn't totally surprise me if the Premier League pulled a fast one and change the rules to prevent one of their favourite big clubs getting relegated (didn't this happen in Chile and Argentina?)...


cope1
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Oct 5, 2010, 7:25 PM

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Re: [Fanatic] Liverpool, Hodgson and McNulty [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Liverpool to face relegation within 5 years."

Perhaps sooner.

Utter rubbish!! There's more chance of Susan Boyle winning Miss World.



It wouldn't totally surprise me if the Premier League pulled a fast one and change the rules to prevent one of their favourite big clubs getting relegated (didn't this happen in Chile and Argentina?)...


This isn't Argentina or Chile though is it? Do you have any evidence whatsoever to suggest this, or is it just another case of throwing stones at the big boys in the name of some kind of misplaced riteousness?


jon b
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Oct 5, 2010, 9:08 PM

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Re: [cope1] Liverpool, Hodgson and McNulty [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Roy Hodgson hasn't suddenly become a bad manager. The question is can Liverpool hold their nerve and give him time. Seem to remember a campaign at Old Trafford to get rid of Fergie before he'd had time to turn things round there. Imagine if that had succeeded. He'd be known as a failure, whereas....

However, anyone who thinks that any side is too big to be allowed to be relegated, should remember what happened to Leeds Utd.

It's always fun when some club chairman argues in favour of doing away with relegation. Coincidentally, it's always when their club has made it into the top flight


cope1
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Oct 5, 2010, 10:02 PM

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Re: [jon b] Liverpool, Hodgson and McNulty [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I haven't actually heard anyone push for doing away with relegation - who was it? Whatever it's ills, and there may be many, I do think it is well beyond the Premier League to close shop that way. If that were on the cards it's more likely the big clubs would head off to a Euro Super League, which I also think unlikely for the foreseeable.


UKPunk
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Oct 5, 2010, 10:41 PM

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In Reply To

In Reply To
I still think well of Hodgson though. He's taken on an almost impossible task, and I hope he's well paid for it.

What impossible task was he charged with ? No Reds fan expected Champions League football at the end of the season. He was seen as a safe pair of hands to tide things over until the ownership issue was resolved and re-investment in the squad could recommence. I don't think for one minute that they'll finish anywhere near where they currently are and while the weakness of the squad Benitez assembled has been brutally exposed, the relative embarrassment of mid-table will probably be the club's fate. And yes, I fully expect Torres to go and I can't blame him. He deserves better than being served by Lucas Leiva, Maxi Rodriguez, Christian Poulsen and Al Bundy.

I wonder how he'd feel about being served by Lennon, Bale, Modric and Van Der Vaart. Tongue



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UKPunk
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Oct 5, 2010, 10:48 PM

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I haven't actually heard anyone push for doing away with relegation - who was it? Whatever it's ills, and there may be many, I do think it is well beyond the Premier League to close shop that way. If that were on the cards it's more likely the big clubs would head off to a Euro Super League, which I also think unlikely for the foreseeable.

I believe this might be what you're refering to.



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Oct 6, 2010, 12:48 PM

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In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Liverpool to face relegation within 5 years."

Perhaps sooner.

Utter rubbish!! There's more chance of Susan Boyle winning Miss World.



It wouldn't totally surprise me if the Premier League pulled a fast one and change the rules to prevent one of their favourite big clubs getting relegated (didn't this happen in Chile and Argentina?)...


This isn't Argentina or Chile though is it? Do you have any evidence whatsoever to suggest this, or is it just another case of throwing stones at the big boys in the name of some kind of misplaced riteousness?



Why would I have any evidence? All I said is that it wouldn't surprise me.


rainjar
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Oct 6, 2010, 4:40 PM

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In Reply To
I still think well of Hodgson though. He's taken on an almost impossible task, and I hope he's well paid for it.

What impossible task was he charged with ? .....


Keeping the fans reasonably happy while the owners wriggle and wrangle.

9 point deduction looming?
"... bankers tell me that if the courts rule against the transfer of Liverpool FC to the new ownership of John Henry and New England Sports Ventures, the sale will still probably go through - although via the ungainly mechanism of Royal Bank of Scotland putting Liverpool into administration ...."
As Hicks and Gillett are legally the owners of Liverpool, RBS action is the only way that they can be forced to sell in a free market.



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paulh66
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Oct 6, 2010, 11:29 PM

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Re: [rainjar] Liverpool, Hodgson and McNulty [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

No chance of a points deduction even if they do go into administration - see http://news.bbc.co.uk/...iverpool/9064599.stm

Relevant quote:

However, the Premier League says it is happy with the business plan of the NESV and has confirmed that the club would not suffer a nine-point penalty if it were to enter administration as the club would remain fully solvent.

"The aim of the regulations is primarily to capture clubs who have gone into insolvency. This is manifestly not the case with Liverpool Football Club," a Premier League source told PA Sport.

"For example, last year West Ham's Icelandic owners went into administration but that did not lead to any Premier League action as the club itself was solvent."


rainjar
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Oct 7, 2010, 4:11 AM

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Re: [paulh66] Liverpool, Hodgson and McNulty [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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No chance of a points deduction even if they do go into administration - see http://news.bbc.co.uk/...iverpool/9064599.stm

Relevant quote:

However, the Premier League says it is happy with the business plan of the NESV and has confirmed that the club would not suffer a nine-point penalty if it were to enter administration as the club would remain fully solvent.

"The aim of the regulations is primarily to capture clubs who have gone into insolvency. This is manifestly not the case with Liverpool Football Club," a Premier League source told PA Sport.

"For example, last year West Ham's Icelandic owners went into administration but that did not lead to any Premier League action as the club itself was solvent."


Don't know how I overlooked that passage, perhaps I wanted to be a bit provocative, so my eyes only saw what they wanted to. Wink

The position stated by the Premier League sounds right though. Quite different from the Southampton situation in the Football League last year.

And perhaps Hicks and Gillett can be forced to sell without administration after all:

"Broughton claimed the American owners were going back on pledges made when major creditor Royal Bank of Scotland extended their finance arrangement until next week, with changes implemented to remove Hicks and Gillett's power to veto a sale.
"When I took the role they gave a couple of written undertakings to Royal Bank of Scotland - that I was the only person entitled to change the board and that they would take no action to frustrate any reasonable sale," Broughton said.
"I think they flagrantly abused both of those written undertakings. I have the casting vote."
It is because of this that Thomas, Head of Insolvency at SA Law LLP, believes that the power is resting with Liverpool's directors.
"It depends on the strength of that drafting but I'm imagining it was very, very carefully worded," stated Thomas."
The word "reasonable" - a lawyer's goldmine.



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(This post was edited by rainjar on Oct 7, 2010, 8:15 AM)


rainjar
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Oct 8, 2010, 4:50 PM

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Re: [rainjar] Liverpool, Hodgson and McNulty [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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....

The position stated by the Premier League sounds right though. Quite different from the Southampton situation in the Football League last year.

.....


Liverpool could face points deduction after all. Perhaps no one knows what's going on, not least the Premier League. Or perhaps they are trying to scare off Hicks/Gillett - though I can't see Hicks/Gillett being scared off from challenging the sale, not when there's 144 million at stake.



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paulh66
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Oct 8, 2010, 5:08 PM

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Liverpool could face points deduction after all. Perhaps no one knows what's going on, not least the Premier League. Or perhaps they are trying to scare off Hicks/Gillett - though I can't see Hicks/Gillett being scared off from challenging the sale, not when there's 144 million at stake.


Wouldn't argue with that!

As for 144m being at stake....well, I doubt anyone other than Hicks or Gillet see it that way - that's the extra they may want but I can't believe anyone credible would offer them what they want. And frankly, so long as they're in power, I don't see the club increasing in monetary value over the short, medium or long term.


rainjar
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Oct 9, 2010, 3:10 AM

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Re: [paulh66] Liverpool, Hodgson and McNulty [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Hicks and Gillett appear to value the club at 600 million.

About 440 million would appear to be the break even for them:
"In fact, they may have to write off about 140m if a reported sale of about 300m goes through."
Would any owner of any substantial asset allow the asset to be forcibly sold with a sizeable loss to himself without putting up a fight?

I have no sympathy for Hicks and Gillett, but increasingly, notwithstanding the conceptual difficulties (of having less than no sympathy), I have even less "sympathy" for RBS.

Clearly, the bank miscalculated when it agreed to finance the leveraged purchase of Liverpool (as did Hicks and Gillett in buying Liverpool). The bank's incentive to do so would have been the substantial interest and fees it would have earned. In the case of Hicks and Gillett the motivation would have been the subsequent sale of the club at a higher price. They could not possibly have seen themselves making a profit in the short to medium term could they? In both cases, the miscalculation was the result of greed.

Payments on the loans are overdue. As the loans to the holding company are secured against its shares in the football club, RBS could enforce its rights and sell the shares. However, such a forced sale carries two risks for RBS: (i) the bank may be under a duty not to realize the shares at an undervalue, failing which, it may be liable to the owners for any shortfall; and/or (ii) the sale price is likely to be significantly lower in a forced sale, with the risk that RBS doesn't recover what is owed to it in full.

Instead the bank gave Hicks and Gillett further extensions of time, based on certain conditions including:

a. appointment of an independent chairman of the holding company (Martin Broughton) to oversee the sale of the club.
b. Hicks and Gillett agreeing to a "reasonable" sale of the football club.

Hicks and Gillett get more time (effectively, extra rope with which to hang themselves), RBS get a sale through with less risk to themselves, and with a better prospect of recovering all sums owing.

Repayment of the loan in full, plus substantial interest and fees for RBS, Gillett and Hicks about 140 million out of pocket - RBS wins.

If Hicks and Gillett know that they are going to be losing about 140 million in any event, they may well be trying to give RBS a bloody nose on their way down.



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(This post was edited by rainjar on Oct 9, 2010, 5:31 AM)


rainjar
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Dec 31, 2010, 1:58 AM

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....

On the other hand, Phil McNulty must surely be one of the worst football writers ever, let alone for the BBC. "Hodgson perfect for Liverpool"???


The home defeat to Wolves is doing Liverpool fans' heads in.



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