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Isaac
Man City Transfer Target!

Mar 28, 2010, 10:29 PM

Posts: 9670
Location: Kent
Team(s): ABMU

Post #1 of 45 (4310 views)
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Cheats Can't Post or Reply Privately

Anybody see the blatent dive by Blackburns Martin Olsen at Burnley today?

When is something going to be done about these cheats?

Surely lengthy bans are in order?


burgesshillbee
First Team Star

Mar 28, 2010, 10:47 PM

Posts: 1970
Location: A Town in Mid Sussex
Team(s): Brentford

Post #2 of 45 (4304 views)
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Re: [Isaac] Cheats [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Not Until the powers ie FIFA/UEFA allow our FA and other National FA'S to take the proper action.


Grecian
Reserve Team Regular


Mar 28, 2010, 11:11 PM

Posts: 607
Location: London
Team(s): Exeter City, Bath City, Alphington, Tottenham Hotspur

Post #3 of 45 (4293 views)
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Re: [Isaac] Cheats [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Anybody see the blatent dive by Blackburns Martin Olsen at Burnley today?

When is something going to be done about these cheats?

Surely lengthy bans are in order?


The fundamental issue that I think needs to be addressed and lies behind this problem (and that of "did the ball cross the line?") is whether in the age of mutiple angle video coverage at the top levels of the game, should referees decisions still be final, irreversable and un-upgradable, even if they make a mistake? I respect the sentiment behind such a rule but I think it's a relic of a bygone (and possibly non-existant) era, when players were gentlemen... and when the technology to expose such incidents did not exist.

I do believe that with such high financial stakes riding on results (think cup progression, relegation/promotion or european qualification) technology (and I admit it wouldn't be perfect by any means) should be used to ensure that the given result reflects the actual result (if you get what I mean - i.e. if a ball crosses the line, the goal shouldn't be disallowed because the ref missed it). Equally, if a player goes down without contact (as in this case) then they need to be retrospectively punished if they don't get up and admit there was no contact should the ref give the foul. This would also apply to players given a yellow card for a foul that warrents a red card or a more serious ban.

But as long as the ideal of the gentleman's game persists, I can't see ref's decisions being subject to postmatch revision.


(This post was edited by Grecian on Mar 28, 2010, 11:12 PM)


UKPunk
Man City Transfer Target!

Mar 28, 2010, 11:57 PM

Posts: 11786
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Post #4 of 45 (4274 views)
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Re: [Grecian] Cheats [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Anybody see the blatent dive by Blackburns Martin Olsen at Burnley today?

When is something going to be done about these cheats?

Surely lengthy bans are in order?


The fundamental issue that I think needs to be addressed and lies behind this problem (and that of "did the ball cross the line?") is whether in the age of mutiple angle video coverage at the top levels of the game, should referees decisions still be final, irreversable and un-upgradable, even if they make a mistake? I respect the sentiment behind such a rule but I think it's a relic of a bygone (and possibly non-existant) era, when players were gentlemen... and when the technology to expose such incidents did not exist.

I do believe that with such high financial stakes riding on results (think cup progression, relegation/promotion or european qualification) technology (and I admit it wouldn't be perfect by any means) should be used to ensure that the given result reflects the actual result (if you get what I mean - i.e. if a ball crosses the line, the goal shouldn't be disallowed because the ref missed it). Equally, if a player goes down without contact (as in this case) then they need to be retrospectively punished if they don't get up and admit there was no contact should the ref give the foul. This would also apply to players given a yellow card for a foul that warrents a red card or a more serious ban.

But as long as the ideal of the gentleman's game persists, I can't see ref's decisions being subject to postmatch revision.

The fundamental issue is that cheating is rife at the top end of the game but the likes of Ferguson, Wenger, Mourinho et al seem to frighten the authorities to the extent that they are a allowed to get away with it. Can you imagine watching a step 6 game and a player getting away with mouthing off to a ref the way Rooney does without getting a card?

When is something going to be done? Never!! The FA are running scared of the Premier League and the Premier League are quite happy to sanction anything as long as the cash keeps rolling in.



1-0-1-0-4-25-40-65-181-289=606

Last game: Mon 20/8/18
4. Basford United 1 Hednesford Town 2


Frank O'Zola
Junior Team Regular

Mar 29, 2010, 7:27 AM

Posts: 51
Location: Bexleyheath
Team(s): Chelsea and Dartford

Post #5 of 45 (4255 views)
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Re: [UKPunk] Cheats [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I saw the incident on MOTD2 last night and in that situation where play has stopped why couldn't the 4th official call the ref over to look at a replay. The cheating Olsen could have been booked, or better still sent off, and on with the game.

I agree that long ban for cheats (ie two or three months) is the only answer.


jon b
Chelsea Transfer Target

Mar 29, 2010, 1:07 PM

Posts: 3023
Location: Dronfield
Team(s): SUFC, SWFC etc

Post #6 of 45 (4210 views)
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Re: [Frank O'Zola] Cheats [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I agree with the idea of bans for offences missed by the match officials.

I'm surprised though that managers of opposition sides seem to excuse players for cheating. Brian Laws said of Martin Olsson's part in the penalty that decided the game that "I'm not blaming the player". Why not?!

Similarly, Colchester boss Adie Boothroyd took the same attitude to Gareth Ainsworth whose "Hand of God" goal gave Wycombe an equaliser. Perhaps, depressingly, they expect their own players to try the same tactics.

Match officials aren't able to see everything in the rush of the action. We can't alter results but we can impose bans on cheats.


UKPunk
Man City Transfer Target!

Mar 29, 2010, 2:13 PM

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Post #7 of 45 (4193 views)
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Re: [jon b] Cheats [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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I agree with the idea of bans for offences missed by the match officials.

I'm surprised though that managers of opposition sides seem to excuse players for cheating. Brian Laws said of Martin Olsson's part in the penalty that decided the game that "I'm not blaming the player". Why not?!

Similarly, Colchester boss Adie Boothroyd took the same attitude to Gareth Ainsworth whose "Hand of God" goal gave Wycombe an equaliser. Perhaps, depressingly, they expect their own players to try the same tactics.

Match officials aren't able to see everything in the rush of the action. We can't alter results but we can impose bans on cheats.

Indeed. And I think this should be retrospectively as well. It's all too easy for the suits to hide behind the referee's decision at the time of the offence. Like you say, he may not have had a clear view.

Come to think of it, how about banning players for a game when video evidence shows instances of shirt pulling?



1-0-1-0-4-25-40-65-181-289=606

Last game: Mon 20/8/18
4. Basford United 1 Hednesford Town 2


Chapeltom
Chelsea Transfer Target

Mar 30, 2010, 12:07 AM

Posts: 4058
Location: Taiwan
Team(s): Sheffield Wednesday (ENG), Uni Lions (Taiwan baseball)

Post #8 of 45 (4133 views)
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Re: [UKPunk] Cheats [In reply to] Can't Post or

I reckon they should add up bans at the end of the season for incidences of; diving, deliberately elbow, nasty tackles, dissent. It would put some players e.g Steven Gerrard, Javier Mascherano out of the game for a long long time Sly


villahopper
First Team Star


Mar 30, 2010, 11:12 AM

Posts: 1567
Location: Stratford upon Avon
Team(s): Aston Villa Bromsgrove Sporting New York Jets

Post #9 of 45 (4104 views)
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Re: [Chapeltom] Cheats [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I reckon they should add up bans at the end of the season for incidences of; diving, deliberately elbow, nasty tackles, dissent. It would put some players e.g Steven Gerrard, Javier Mascherano out of the game for a long long time Sly


Dont be silly Tom the Sainted Steeeeeevie Starfish never does anything wrong. Always not guilty despite all the evidence against him


Isaac
Man City Transfer Target!

Mar 30, 2010, 8:28 PM

Posts: 9670
Location: Kent
Team(s): ABMU

Post #10 of 45 (4049 views)
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Re: [villahopper] Cheats [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

According to Talksport Martin Olsen did admit taking a dive (although he could hardly deny it!) because apparently referee Mike Dean gives more penalties than most.

It seems that even many Blackburn fans are not happy about it.


Ropemaker
Man City Transfer Target!

Apr 8, 2010, 6:26 PM

Posts: 7562
Location: Surrey
Team(s): Hailsham Town

Post #11 of 45 (3732 views)
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Re: [Isaac] Cheats [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Two things get me about all this.

You never hear anyone complain when a borderline/dodgy decision goes in their favour.

So is it the correct decision people want, or the "correct" decision?

Also, whilst I'm not against the principle of video evidence, no-one ever seems to say how it would operate in practice, or what decisions it would/could be used for in a match.



Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get you.


Grecian
Reserve Team Regular


Apr 9, 2010, 12:39 AM

Posts: 607
Location: London
Team(s): Exeter City, Bath City, Alphington, Tottenham Hotspur

Post #12 of 45 (3705 views)
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Re: [Ropemaker] Cheats [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Two things get me about all this.

You never hear anyone complain when a borderline/dodgy decision goes in their favour.

So is it the correct decision people want, or the "correct" decision?

Also, whilst I'm not against the principle of video evidence, no-one ever seems to say how it would operate in practice, or what decisions it would/could be used for in a match.


I have to say I have seen a number of TV pundits and similar venture an opinion on this subject and various proposals have been suggested on all sorts of football forums (fora, foraii?). Generally the suggestion is that the 4th official would have access to video replays (or a separate TMO appointed) and there are as many options for what might be referred to video replay as there are people with opinions, ranging from just 'did the ball cross the goal line' to any desision that the ref wants to double check, e.g. 'did the ball cross the (any) line?', 'what happened in that bust up?', 'did that player dive?' etc

If viewers at home can see instant replays, I can't see it being a problem for a 4th official or TMO - and I would certainly advocate using video evidence to review incidents post-match, particularly for diving and deliberate acts of aggression that might have been missed by the ref, with panels given more license to overturn a referees decision (especially the daft rule that if the referee takes action on an incident, the punishments can't be retrospectively upgraded if later deemed to have been worthy of greater punishment).


Frank O'Zola
Junior Team Regular

Apr 14, 2010, 5:24 PM

Posts: 51
Location: Bexleyheath
Team(s): Chelsea and Dartford

Post #13 of 45 (3529 views)
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Re: [Grecian] Cheats [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Another cheat is Agbonlahor in the FA Cup semi final, you can see the replay on the FA website, it is him that is shirt pulling and then when he realised he wasn't getting anywhere he threw himself to the floor, fortunatly Howard Webb wasn't fooled. Perhaps Martin O'Neill might care to watch it and admit the ref got it right and criticise his player for cheating?Crazy


Isaac
Man City Transfer Target!

Apr 1, 2012, 10:26 PM

Posts: 9670
Location: Kent
Team(s): ABMU

Post #14 of 45 (2555 views)
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Re: [Frank O'Zola] Cheats [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Andy Carroll hang your head in shameUnimpressed

And to think he had asked fans not to boo him, he even promised not to celebrate if he scoredSlySly


cope1
Man City Transfer Target!

Apr 2, 2012, 10:17 AM

Posts: 7286
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Post #15 of 45 (2514 views)
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Re: [Isaac] Cheats [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

That's impressive - going back almost 2 whole years to revive a post!!!

In terms of using video evidence, I certainly agree that it should be used to punish retrospectively. I'm not so sure it would work as well as people think on the spot though. I doubt the number of complaints would change. A player just about touches an opponent who goes tumbling to the ground. Most people think it's a dive but only the player who went down can truly know.


Red Adder
Youth Team Star

Apr 2, 2012, 11:10 AM

Posts: 370
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Post #16 of 45 (2500 views)
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Re: [Isaac] Cheats [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Did he dive though ? He still looks a bit overweight and unfit. Perhaps getting two paces clear of the defender tired him and he just collapsed from exhaustionWink.


cope1
Man City Transfer Target!

Apr 2, 2012, 11:13 AM

Posts: 7286
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Post #17 of 45 (2498 views)
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Re: [Red Adder] Cheats [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I feel myself empathising with the lad...


Isaac
Man City Transfer Target!

Apr 2, 2012, 11:20 AM

Posts: 9670
Location: Kent
Team(s): ABMU

Post #18 of 45 (2495 views)
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Re: [cope1] Cheats [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

There seemed little point starting a new cheats thread.

Retrospective punishment is long overdue!


Richard Rundle
Man City Transfer Target!

Apr 2, 2012, 12:29 PM

Posts: 8469
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Post #19 of 45 (2478 views)
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Re: [Isaac] Cheats [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
There seemed little point starting a new cheats thread.

Retrospective punishment is long overdue!



Completely agree (on both counts)


sandhurstbee
Man City Transfer Target!


Apr 2, 2012, 1:22 PM

Posts: 6446
Location: Little Sandhurst, Berkshire
Team(s): Brentford, Sandhurst Town and Most local Non League sides.

Post #20 of 45 (2461 views)
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Re: [Isaac] Cheats [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Andy Carroll hang your head in shameUnimpressed

And to think he had asked fans not to boo him, he even promised not to celebrate if he scoredSlySly


This was a funny one, first glance on the TV I thought Penalty. Replay showed he wasn`t touched, good spot by the Ref. Thing I could not understand was Carrol was round the keeper and only had to side foot into empty net if he kept on his feet Crazy



***********************************
Last New Ground 2016/17 (15) 29/4/2017 HIGHMOOR/IBIS RESERVES 1 Mortimer 1 - Thames Valley premier league, Premier Division



buncranaboy
Qatar World Cup bid member!


Apr 2, 2012, 1:25 PM

Posts: 17988
Location: South Birmingham
Team(s): Barnstoneworth United; Bostock Stanley

Post #21 of 45 (2460 views)
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Re: [Richard Rundle] Cheats [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

From this weekend alone you could add Mark Davies and James Perch to the cheats list for what it's worth. The authorities don't really give a monkeys.

And while Reina walked, Odemwingie didn't for doing exactly the same to his own keeper.


Isaac
Man City Transfer Target!

Apr 2, 2012, 1:40 PM

Posts: 9670
Location: Kent
Team(s): ABMU

Post #22 of 45 (2454 views)
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Re: [buncranaboy] Cheats [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
From this weekend alone you could add Mark Davies and James Perch to the cheats list for what it's worth. The authorities don't really give a monkeys.

And while Reina walked, Odemwingie didn't for doing exactly the same to his own keeper.


One of three incidents of team mates falling out in the Prem.

Agree about Davies and Perch but Carroll's dive was farcical, maybe that swinging ponytail put him off balance?Sly


noprogs
First Team Star

Apr 3, 2012, 12:00 PM

Posts: 1503
Location: west riding of yorkshire
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Post #23 of 45 (2368 views)
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Re: [sandhurstbee] Cheats [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Andy Carroll hang your head in shameUnimpressed

And to think he had asked fans not to boo him, he even promised not to celebrate if he scoredSlySly


This was a funny one, first glance on the TV I thought Penalty. Replay showed he wasn`t touched, good spot by the Ref. Thing I could not understand was Carrol was round the keeper and only had to side foot into empty net if he kept on his feet Crazy



maybe using the words 'Andy Carroll' and 'clear goalscoring opportunity' in the same sentence doesn't ring very true..


youngster
Chelsea Transfer Target

Apr 4, 2012, 10:11 AM

Posts: 3288
Location: The EAST
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Post #24 of 45 (2282 views)
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Re: [Isaac] Cheats [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To



Agree about Davies and Perch but Carroll's dive was farcical, maybe that swinging ponytail put him off balance?Sly


Certainly not an intentional dive for me, the clown just lost his feet and fell over. He'd actually showed good balance to get in that position, but what happened afterwards was laughable. Oh dear King Kenny, 35 Million for that, OUCH.


fortbaxter
Junior Team Sub

Apr 4, 2012, 10:31 PM

Posts: 25
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Post #25 of 45 (2207 views)
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Re: [youngster] Cheats [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The FA have brought in a new ruling. Any player passing the ball to Andy Carroll will be booked for time wasting.

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