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Foul and Abusive Language.

 

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leohoenig
Administrator

Jan 3, 2010, 1:59 PM

Posts: 13404
Location: Outer Cheltenhamshire
Team(s): Cheltenham Town

Post #1 of 32 (21428 views)
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Foul and Abusive Language. Can't Post or Reply Privately

I have recently edited a couple of posts including foul language.
In my opinion, the language is still foul, even if you replace some letters with *

I have also deleted a post containing an unproven (but well known) allegation about a manager.

Posters should be careful about how they word accusations about individuals, whether that they post on here on not.
Generally, I think posters should remember that this is a "family" board, and not use language that could result in a red card, if used on the pitch.

I am not trying here to create and enforce rules. This post is to open debate. As a moderator, I will moderate to agreed standards.
(The board is not a complete democracy, and has an 'owner' who can place absolute rules).



Fat AND Pompous.
The proof that you can have too much of a good thing
Now blogging at http://www.leohoenig.com



Jamesie
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Jan 3, 2010, 2:07 PM

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Post #2 of 32 (21409 views)
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Re: [leohoenig] Foul and Abusive Language. [In reply to] Can't Post or

Beat me to it there Leo. As far as I remember from other boards, the owner of the board CAN have legal action taken against him. I know of a certain league's board that was closed down repeatedly by a manager of that league, with the threat of court action if this did not happen, due to malicious slurs. The attitude "well sue me then" is fine, but it isn't the poster that gets spanked with the writ. That in itself is reason enough to have people banned from the board if they follow that attitude.

I would add more, but lunch is ready! Mad



Just a note to anyone who is wondering, I am no longer a moderator of this forum due to current personal circumstances and work commitments. If you need help, contact leohoenig or Steve walker. Thank You.


Chapeltom
Chelsea Transfer Target

Jan 3, 2010, 3:36 PM

Posts: 4058
Location: Taiwan
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Post #3 of 32 (21356 views)
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Re: [Jamesie] Foul and Abusive Language. [In reply to] Can't Post or

Sorry if I have been guilty of this, I have seen swearing on the board before and thought it was ok. Well I know now Blush


EastStander
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Jan 3, 2010, 4:49 PM

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Post #4 of 32 (21297 views)
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Re: [Chapeltom] Foul and Abusive Language. [In reply to] Can't Post or

crikey. Smile


Jamesie
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Jan 3, 2010, 4:52 PM

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Post #5 of 32 (21294 views)
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Re: [EastStander] Foul and Abusive Language. [In reply to] Can't Post or


In Reply To
crikey. Smile

Yep, crikey. I'm sure you wouldn't mind editing your signature then, would you? There's a good un.



Just a note to anyone who is wondering, I am no longer a moderator of this forum due to current personal circumstances and work commitments. If you need help, contact leohoenig or Steve walker. Thank You.


Whiskey Coates
First Team Sub


Jan 3, 2010, 5:30 PM

Posts: 981
Location: Bridlington
Team(s): Bridlington Town, Sheffield Wednesday, Scarborough FC.

Post #6 of 32 (21258 views)
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Re: [leohoenig] Foul and Abusive Language. [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I have also deleted a post containing an unproven (but well known) allegation about a manager.



are you referring to the recent post about a certain manager who went on a 'pilgramage' at her majesty's pleasure? in which case he was found guilty of tax evasion and presumebly it's ok to mention that on here [it must be true cos i read it on wikipedia].

apologies in advance if i've got hold of the wrong end of the stick, and yes i do agree that there has to be strict moderation of these boards.


(This post was edited by Whiskey Coates on Jan 3, 2010, 5:34 PM)


Jamesie
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Jan 3, 2010, 5:36 PM

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Post #7 of 32 (21250 views)
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Re: [Whiskey Coates] Foul and Abusive Language. [In reply to] Can't Post or


In Reply To

In Reply To
I have also deleted a post containing an unproven (but well known) allegation about a manager.



are you referring to the recent post about a certain manager who went on a 'pilgramage' at her majesty's pleasure? in which case he was found guilty of tax evasion and presumebly it's ok to mention that on here [it must be true cos i read it on wikipedia].

apologies in advance if i've got hold of the wrong end of the stick, and yes i do agree that there has to be strict moderation of these boards.

No, it wasn't that one. This incident is an allegation, not a conviction.



Just a note to anyone who is wondering, I am no longer a moderator of this forum due to current personal circumstances and work commitments. If you need help, contact leohoenig or Steve walker. Thank You.


Whiskey Coates
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Jan 3, 2010, 5:48 PM

Posts: 981
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Team(s): Bridlington Town, Sheffield Wednesday, Scarborough FC.

Post #8 of 32 (21237 views)
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Re: [Jamesie] Foul and Abusive Language. [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

No, it wasn't that one. This incident is an allegation, not a conviction.



ok i'm with you now. my bad.


Garrincha's dog
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Jan 3, 2010, 6:59 PM

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Post #9 of 32 (21187 views)
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Re: [leohoenig] Foul and Abusive Language. [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I think posters should remember that this is a "family" board, and not use language that could result in a red card, if used on the pitch.


At the games I go to, no matter how appalling the language, even when directed at the Officials, do the perpetrators receive a card of any colour.


trimmtrab
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Jan 3, 2010, 8:18 PM

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Post #10 of 32 (21127 views)
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Re: [EastStander] Foul and Abusive Language. [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

As someone who enjoys the social networking site Twitter I find your use of the term 'Halifax Town' offensive. Please remove the offending name from any of your posts. Tee hee


Garrincha's dog
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Jan 4, 2010, 12:29 PM

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Post #11 of 32 (20956 views)
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Re: [trimmtrab] Foul and Abusive Language. [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I've checked the terms and conditions of the Hellenic League and their much vaunted respect campaign. I will now endeavour to adhere to that as much as the Managers and club officials do at those woeful sides.


jon b
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Jan 4, 2010, 1:48 PM

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Post #12 of 32 (20909 views)
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Re: [Garrincha's dog] Foul and Abusive Language. [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I'm told my language has got worse as I've got older and grumpier Shocked I'll try to behave.

When helping with stewarding we regularly got people complaining that we'd ask spectators to cut down on the swearing whilst managers and players were shouting all sorts of niceties at anyone and everyone.

Our response was always that it was up to the match officials what they were prepared to put up with. Of course, if a Ref does take action, he'll find that a player claims not to have been shouting at him or his assistants but just generally showing frustration!

One guy I know was surprised when a Ref sent him off for calling the Ref a cheat. He seemed to think that as it wasn't swearing it was ok. Ref, unsurprisingly, disagreed.

Of course a Ref doesn't have to limit himself to the field of play. We've had a Ref tell us to eject someone whose shouted comments he deemed offensive. Out he went. Cool


GSB
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Jan 5, 2010, 3:06 PM

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Post #13 of 32 (20695 views)
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Re: [jon b] Foul and Abusive Language. [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

One explanation (I think a bit tenuous) I have heard put forward to defend referees is that the key word in the phase is foul AND abusive and that in the heat of a game foul language isn't necessarily abusive too.


Mad Bill
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Jan 5, 2010, 3:31 PM

Posts: 1774
Location: Denton
Team(s): Hyde United FC; Lancashire CCC; Buffalo Bills;

Post #14 of 32 (20678 views)
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Re: [GSB] Foul and Abusive Language. [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
One explanation (I think a bit tenuous) I have heard put forward to defend referees is that the key word in the phase is foul AND abusive and that in the heat of a game foul language isn't necessarily abusive too.


I wouldn't say it's tenuous. I'd be very surprised if no player or manager has used as a defence the fact the what was said was one or the other, but not both.
That being the case, rewording to read 'foul OR abusive' could lead to an increase in punishments handed out.

On the other hand, since 'cheat' isn't foul, calling a ref one would not breach the rule. Yet clearly doing so can get a player or manager into trouble.


Geoff
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Jan 5, 2010, 5:08 PM

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Post #15 of 32 (20633 views)
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Re: [jon b] Foul and Abusive Language. [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I am frequently amazed by the number of clubs who, on one hand, are trying to encourage dads & kids to come & watch them (kids for a quid, kids free with an adult etc, etc) yet on the other are apparently happy for their manager and players to scream foul and abusive language at the top of their voices constantly throughout the game.
Am I alone in thinking that there are several local non-league grounds which, while I am happy to visit regularly, I would not take my young grandchild to because of the easily audible and constant bad language?
Presumably these clubs so financially secure that they can afford to put off potential customers.


mick
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Jan 5, 2010, 5:24 PM

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Post #16 of 32 (20620 views)
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Re: [GSB] Foul and Abusive Language. [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
One explanation (I think a bit tenuous) I have heard put forward to defend referees is that the key word in the phase is foul AND abusive and that in the heat of a game foul language isn't necessarily abusive too.


Not sure where this comes from ? The Laws of the Game state @ Law 12:

A player, substitute or substituted player is sent off if he commits any of the following offences:
......
* using offensive, insulting or abusive language and/or gestures.

No mention of 'foul', and the linking word is 'or'.

If someone called me a 'cheat' I would certainly find it both offensive and insulting ...... unless I was cheating, of course Wink




mick
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Jan 5, 2010, 5:27 PM

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Post #17 of 32 (20619 views)
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Re: [Geoff] Foul and Abusive Language. [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Am I alone in thinking that there are several local non-league grounds which, while I am happy to visit regularly, I would not take my young grandchild to because of the easily audible and constant bad language?
Presumably these clubs so financially secure that they can afford to put off potential customers.


No you are not alone, I know people who no longer go because of the constant bad language. As you say, these clubs clearly do not need the money.


Mad Bill
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Jan 6, 2010, 8:31 AM

Posts: 1774
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Team(s): Hyde United FC; Lancashire CCC; Buffalo Bills;

Post #18 of 32 (20517 views)
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Re: [mick] Foul and Abusive Language. [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Am I alone in thinking that there are several local non-league grounds which, while I am happy to visit regularly, I would not take my young grandchild to because of the easily audible and constant bad language?
Presumably these clubs so financially secure that they can afford to put off potential customers.


No you are not alone, I know people who no longer go because of the constant bad language. As you say, these clubs clearly do not need the money.


Surely the rules re language would apply to fans as well as players/Managers. A crack down would potentially result in thinning out the regulars. Even if there are enough kids-for-a-quid out there, there's going to be a negative effect on cash-flow before they turn up, if they turn up.


(This post was edited by Mad Bill on Jan 6, 2010, 1:48 PM)


Isaac
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Jan 6, 2010, 11:57 AM

Posts: 9629
Location: Kent
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Post #19 of 32 (20444 views)
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Re: [mick] Foul and Abusive Language. [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Am I alone in thinking that there are several local non-league grounds which, while I am happy to visit regularly, I would not take my young grandchild to because of the easily audible and constant bad language?
Presumably these clubs so financially secure that they can afford to put off potential customers.


No you are not alone, I know people who no longer go because of the constant bad language. As you say, these clubs clearly do not need the money.



I totally agree and how on earth clubs can expect people to bring young children to listen to that sort of language I don't know, I've no problem with a bit of 'industrial language' in the right circumstances but NOT when there are women and children around.

A player who misplaces a pass muttering some expletive under his breath is one thing but when the game hasn't even started and players are shouting "f-ing mean it" and "from the f-ing of" on the top of their voice its something else. I wonder if in their day to day lives these players use the 'f word' every few seconds, I doubt it and I don't know why they think it is any more acceptable on a football field.

The Kent League had a crackdown on swearing a few years ago and it was very successful, why on earth they didn't continue with it I don't know.


(This post was edited by Isaac on Jan 6, 2010, 12:30 PM)


VP
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Jan 6, 2010, 12:36 PM

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Post #20 of 32 (20412 views)
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Re: [Isaac] Foul and Abusive Language. [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

As someone who takes my nine year old great nephew to games sometimes I have to say the swearing from players doesn't bother me in the least just as 500 people asking 'who the hell are you?' to the opposing team at a Premiership game doesn't bother me.
I can't have been the only one who, at a very early age, looked up every swear word I could think of in a dictionary. Most of them were in there. I think it's naive to think you can shelter kids from words you might not want them to hear. They may not know what they mean but rest assured they've heard everything. All you can do is tell them what's right and wrong based on your own morals.
Personally I view words as just words. Who decides which ones are foul and which aren't? And when did these words become categorised as vulgar?
The 'c' word was in common usage in road names all around the country up until the 16th century. It was preceded by the word 'grope' and was the area where the prostitutes plyed their trade.
If you come across a street named Grape Lane in the UK then it's almost certain that used to be called something else until the 16th century word police over.
These days it's a no-no to use the word anywhere. We appear to be going backwards. I really can't see how anyone can be offended by some letters put together in a certain order.


(This post was edited by VP on Jan 6, 2010, 12:36 PM)


nico
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Jan 6, 2010, 12:56 PM

Posts: 3650
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Post #21 of 32 (20394 views)
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Re: [VP] Foul and Abusive Language. [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
The 'c' word was in common usage in road names all around the country up until the 16th century. It was preceded by the word 'grope' and was the area where the prostitutes plyed their trade.
If you come across a street named Grape Lane in the UK then it's almost certain that used to be called something else until the 16th century word police (took) over.



Well, blow me, Grope**** Lane even has a listing on good ol' Wikipedia. Shocked



One moment's high and glory rolls on by


VP
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Jan 6, 2010, 1:01 PM

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Post #22 of 32 (20381 views)
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Re: [nico] Foul and Abusive Language. [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To


Well, blow me, Grope**** Lane even has a listing on good ol' Wikipedia. Shocked


I knew someone would look!

I first heard about it on the BBC's 'Balderdash & Piffle' - that programme where punters could help the OED find earlier usage of some words.


jon b
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Jan 6, 2010, 1:38 PM

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Post #23 of 32 (20360 views)
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Re: [VP] Foul and Abusive Language. [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Anyone who's been a school pupil will have came across incessant, continuous foul language. Normally, people grow up and out of it.

There are, of course, occasions when it's almost unnatural not to swear. Particularly when driving there are instances when "goodness me" doesn't really reflect the emotion of the moment.

However.....

Found myself taking an unexpected day's leave yesterday because of the snows. Made the best of it and walked down to our local which is under new management and I and the rest of the clan tried the varoius brews and played pool.

Whilst we were there the barman talked of how pubs were in dire straits. Partly self inflicted I suspect given that one of the drinkers at the bar was a guy of around 60 who was unable to complete a sentence, or even half a sentence, without using the F adjective.

Much as I enjoyed the drink and the pool etc if I was to find this guy was a regular, I'd take the family to one of the other local pubs instead.

And it's a choice that people make in relation to watching football.


mick
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Jan 6, 2010, 2:21 PM

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Post #24 of 32 (20337 views)
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Re: [VP] Foul and Abusive Language. [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I really can't see how anyone can be offended by some letters put together in a certain order.


As I posted earlier, I would most certainly be offended if someone called me a 'cheat'. That is because the letters c..h..e..a..t put together in that order means that the person using them is saying that I am acting deceitfully or dishonestly in order to gain some sort of advantage for myself.


Jaundiced Hack
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Jan 6, 2010, 5:48 PM

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Post #25 of 32 (20272 views)
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Re: [mick] Foul and Abusive Language. [In reply to] Can't Post or

The bare facts are that foul language on and near the field of play has deteriorated in the last few years to the point that in many cases the mere blast of whistle is enough for some players to shout **** off" at the referee or linesman knowing they will escape punishment. When I was a referee/linesman on the Western League in the 80s any player would be straight off before they finished saying it. While we all have a woolly attitude to it it will only get worse.

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