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Twenty Questions - Ambiguities

 

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chris41
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Dec 10, 2009, 9:49 PM

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Twenty Questions - Ambiguities Can't Post or Reply Privately

Update as of 14.11.2014

When the 20 Question subject is a European based answer, there are often controversies as to what the geography of Europe is. I suggest from opinions already sought the following rules.

1) Adriatic coastline countries should also be considered as Mediterranean e.g (Slovenia,Croatia,Montenegro,Albania,Bosnia & Herzegovina)
2) Scandinavia should be only Denmark, Sweden, Norway
3) Nordic Countries should be Denmark,Finland, Iceland,Sweden,Norway plus their associated territories (Faroe Islands,Greenland,Svalbard and Aland)
4) Baltic states should be referred to as Estonia,Latvia and Lithuania
5) UK should be England,Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland (not include Channel Islands or Isle of Man)
6) Great Britain should Be England,Scotland and Wales (not include Channel islands or Isle of Man)
7) British Isles should be the two sovereign states of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland +Ireland + the surrounding islands like Channel islands and Isle of Man etc (as defined in wiki). As the term British Isles is controversial in relationship with Ireland perhaps an alternative question to ask would be “Is the club/ground in the UK/ROI/Crown Dependencies ?” which covers the Channel islands and isle of Man.
8) Mainland Europe should include All countries of Europe,except those that are solely islands e.g (Great Britain,Ireland,Iceland,Malta,Cyprus) or islands that are the territories of Mainland European countries e.g (Sicily,Majorca,Crete)

9) Some people refer to Holland as a Country when it should perhaps be The Netherlands ??? (Holland is perhaps to be considered by some, as a region of the Netherlands ???) if we all refer to the country as The Netherlands then it would avoid controversy when narrowing down a question. E.g Does the country begin with letters M-Z ?

10) The definition of Europe itself is ambiguous. It should be simplified for this 20q quiz as to all of the countries that are affiliated to the Uefa Football Confederation with the exception of Israel.

11)There are 7 countries according to wiki that are considered to be both European & Asian (Russia,Kazakhstan,Azerbaijan , Georgia,Armenia,Cyprus and Turkey. If someone chose a subject from any of these countries, I do not believe it would be misleading to answer “yes the club/ground is from Asia.”

As we cannot agree if an inland sea has a coastline or what a European person is, we should perhaps ask the following alternative questions to avoid misleading information
Does the country have a coastline or borders an Inland sea ?
Was/is the person born in Europe ?

As Monsieur Pascal stated in an earlier post if unsure, there is no harm in seeking clarity to an answer on a geographical question but with the above guidelines hopefully it should help.

Chris


(This post was edited by chris41 on Nov 14, 2014, 3:04 PM)


chris41
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Feb 19, 2010, 8:32 PM

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Re: [chris41] Twenty Questions - Ambiguities [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Questions Regarding Islands and Countries on Islands

Please see the attached Wikipedia link to help in identifiying countries that are islands and countries that are on islands

http://en.wikipedia.org/...t_of_islands_by_area

It is noticeable that it considers Australia as not an island but a continental land mass and Great Britain (England,Scotland & Wales) as an island which has caused confusion on questions and answers in the past. If everyone abides by this whatever their views then it should help. The subject of Denmark has come up in the past where the the province of Jutland would be considered as not an island (attached to mainland Europe) but the rest of Denmark apparently would be considered as an island.


(This post was edited by chris41 on Feb 19, 2010, 8:35 PM)


chris41
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Feb 20, 2010, 11:27 PM

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Re: [chris41] Twenty Questions - Ambiguities [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Countries that are Islands and countries that are on islands

Have just tried to open the above wiki link and comes up with error message on My PC so have reposted

http://en.wikipedia.org/...t_of_islands_by_area


chris41
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Mar 9, 2010, 6:04 PM

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Re: [chris41] Twenty Questions - Ambiguities [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Questions Regarding Footballer Players First Names and Definition of Football Administrators

Just to clarify for the Quiz, the definitions of the above.


Football Players/Managers First Names

This should be defined by their common name as defined in Wikipedia and not their actual first name they were born with. Most of the players will have a wiki entry so for example.

Bobby Charlton and not Robert Charlton
Billy Wright and not William Wright
Tony Woodcock and not Anthony Woodcock

Football Administrators

This should be defined as people who are involved in the establishment of Running the game, people responsible for rule/law/code changes, members of football governing bodies etc and NOT club secretaries, referees, football directors or football clubs general office Staff.


Monsieur Pascal
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Mar 14, 2010, 7:39 PM

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Re: [chris41] Twenty Questions - Ambiguities [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Football Administrators

This should be defined as people who are involved in the establishment of Running the game, people responsible for rule/law/code changes, members of football governing bodies etc and NOT club secretaries, referees, football directors or football clubs general office Staff.


...with unpaid and paid persons working for clubs probably being referred to as CLUB administrators ?

Football administrators would of course include all people with positions at an FA, whether it be fiFA, The FA, or the Wheel tappers & Shunters FA. Referrees would be covered by the "are or were they a ref ?" questions.


jimmyjazz
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Mar 17, 2010, 7:52 AM

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Re: [Monsieur Pascal] Twenty Questions - Ambiguities [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Clarifications - should a poster ask to clarify that the answer involves 1 of A, B or C and they don't mention D when D is part of the answer, how should one go about answering this?

This hasn't happened yet by the way, just asking for the future.

I would be inclined to say that I couldn't clarify, although wouldn't this give the game away?


Jamesie
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Mar 17, 2010, 8:41 AM

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In Reply To
Clarifications - should a poster ask to clarify that the answer involves 1 of A, B or C and they don't mention D when D is part of the answer, how should one go about answering this?

This hasn't happened yet by the way, just asking for the future.

I would be inclined to say that I couldn't clarify, although wouldn't this give the game away?



Example: We are looking for a club in Brazil. The questions, is it in Europe, Asia, Africa have been asked. The clarifying question can only be "so it isn't in Europe, Asia or Africa", as nothing else has been eliminated. A simple reply of "that hasn't been estabilished" for anything else is suffice.



Just a note to anyone who is wondering, I am no longer a moderator of this forum due to current personal circumstances and work commitments. If you need help, contact leohoenig or Steve walker. Thank You.


chris41
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Jun 10, 2010, 1:09 PM

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Re: [chris41] Twenty Questions - Ambiguities [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Questions regarding Clubs and in Particular Clubs with Prefixes

Just to ask with questions regarding club sides to state whether it includes a prefix, if not then we will assume that it might have a prefix and that club name will be defined as the wikipedia definition in English spelling.

Maybe alternative questions to ask.......

Does the club name including any prefix begin with letters A-L ?
Does the main club name not including any prefixes start with letters A-L ?


Ropemaker
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Re: [chris41] Twenty Questions - Ambiguities [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Question about New/Old Grounds

If asked if a ground is new/old/still in use/still in existence etc., what is the position on "new builds" e.g. Wembley, Bournemouth, Millenium Stadium, Dulwich etc.

I don't wish to start the debate off about whether we can count these as a "new visit" on our travels, just for the purposes of Twenty Questions.

Apologies if this has already been settled.



Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get you.


chris41
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Jan 26, 2011, 1:52 PM

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Re: [Ropemaker] Twenty Questions - Ambiguities [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Question about New/Old Grounds

If asked if a ground is new/old/still in use/still in existence etc., what is the position on "new builds" e.g. Wembley, Bournemouth, Millenium Stadium, Dulwich etc.

I don't wish to start the debate off about whether we can count these as a "new visit" on our travels, just for the purposes of Twenty Questions.

Apologies if this has already been settled.


No this one hasn't been settled and can cause problems when refering to old and new Wembley in quizzes. Some hoppers who have been to both old and new Wembley would regard it as 2 ticks and others just one tick. I do not think there is a right or wrong answer. I would be inclined to say that all of the new built grounds that you have mentioned were built over the land of the old grounds or had their pitch moved 90 degrees as in the case of Bournemouth and Millenium stadium and they would be existing grounds and not new. However The New Champion Hill ground at Dulwich appears to have been built next to their old ground and not on any of the land of the old ground so that could be 2 ticksUnsure.


Again I don't know the answer and perhaps other 20Q players might want to comment so we might get a ruling. We probably might just need to ask questions more precisely and seek clarity on answers.


Ropemaker
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Feb 25, 2011, 12:16 PM

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Re: [chris41] Twenty Questions - Ambiguities [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Suggestion

Not really an ambiguity, more a suggestion.

Each quiz starts off with people asking if it is a club or ground or person or e/o or object (I think that covers it!). That established, the real quiz begin.

This could be stated at the outset, "Here we go with quiz x, we seek a ...", quickening things by bypassing the need to establish that information.

Just a thought.



Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get you.


Jamesie
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Feb 25, 2011, 12:19 PM

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In Reply To
Suggestion

Not really an ambiguity, more a suggestion.

Each quiz starts off with people asking if it is a club or ground or person or e/o or object (I think that covers it!). That established, the real quiz begin.

This could be stated at the outset, "Here we go with quiz x, we seek a ...", quickening things by bypassing the need to establish that information.

Just a thought.

Not sure for the mainstream 20Qs, but certainly one to consider for the Sunday 20/20s.



Just a note to anyone who is wondering, I am no longer a moderator of this forum due to current personal circumstances and work commitments. If you need help, contact leohoenig or Steve walker. Thank You.


Ropemaker
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Mar 7, 2011, 2:12 PM

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Re: [Jamesie] Twenty Questions - Ambiguities [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Non FIFA/UEFA Countries/Regions

I thought about this during my "Easter Island" quiz.

Do we classify unofficial countries or regions as "national teams"?

e.g. Falklands, Gibralter, Basque Region etc. etc.

Some such will have applied for FIFA/UEFA status at some time, some won't have.

Cheers



Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get you.


Jamesie
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Mar 7, 2011, 2:21 PM

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Re: [Ropemaker] Twenty Questions - Ambiguities [In reply to] Can't Post or

I guess it all depends really. The NF-Board has been a particular fascination of mine over the past few years, some of their members I'd consider nations, others I wouldn't.

Places like Chechnya most certainly aren't countries in my opinion, neither would the Basque Region really, but I'd consider Gibraltar and the Falklands the same way as I'd consider the Isle of Man.



Just a note to anyone who is wondering, I am no longer a moderator of this forum due to current personal circumstances and work commitments. If you need help, contact leohoenig or Steve walker. Thank You.


Ropemaker
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Mar 18, 2014, 12:45 AM

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Re: [Jamesie] Twenty Questions - Ambiguities [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Iron Curtain/Eastern Block/Eastern Europe

Seeing as this came up recently ...

Should Albania and Yugoslavia (Serbia/Croatia/Bosnia/Macedonia/Slovenia/Montenegro post partition) be included? You can argue either way.

Along with (don't think I've missed anyone):

Soviet Union (Russia/Latvia/Lithuania/Estonia/Ukraine/Belarus/Armenia/Azerbaijan/Georgia/Kazakhstan/Moldova)
East Germany (Not post 1991)
Poland
Czechoslovakia (Czech Republic/Slovakia)
Hungary
Romania
Bulgaria



Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get you.


buncranaboy
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Mar 18, 2014, 12:51 AM

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In Reply To
Iron Curtain/Eastern Block/Eastern Europe

Seeing as this came up recently ...

Should Albania and Yugoslavia (Serbia/Croatia/Bosnia/Macedonia/Slovenia/Montenegro post partition) be included? You can argue either way.

Along with (don't think I've missed anyone):

Soviet Union (Russia/Latvia/Lithuania/Estonia/Ukraine/Belarus/Armenia/Azerbaijan/Georgia/Kazakhstan/Moldova)
East Germany (Not post 1991)
Poland
Czechoslovakia (Czech Republic/Slovakia)
Hungary
Romania
Bulgaria



I'd agree with the above.

You've missed Kosovo by the way Tongue


chris41
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Mar 18, 2014, 10:14 PM

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In Reply To
Iron Curtain/Eastern Block/Eastern Europe

Seeing as this came up recently ...

Should Albania and Yugoslavia (Serbia/Croatia/Bosnia/Macedonia/Slovenia/Montenegro post partition) be included? You can argue either way.

Along with (don't think I've missed anyone):

Soviet Union (Russia/Latvia/Lithuania/Estonia/Ukraine/Belarus/Armenia/Azerbaijan/Georgia/Kazakhstan/Moldova)
East Germany (Not post 1991)
Poland
Czechoslovakia (Czech Republic/Slovakia)
Hungary
Romania
Bulgaria


3 very similar geographical terms/areas there and very debatable if you can include Yugoslavia in that list but definitely Albania. I'm happy to go along with those terms for clarity as the Yugoslavs were definitely under the thumb of The Soviets. The Warsaw Pact would exclude Yugoslavia in that group if you wanted to ask an alternative question that would rule Yugoslavia out of that group of Nations.


Ropemaker
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Mar 19, 2014, 2:30 PM

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Re: [chris41] Twenty Questions - Ambiguities [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Suggest the following two terms

Iron Curtain
Soviet Union (Russia/Latvia/Lithuania/Estonia/Ukraine/Belarus/Moldova/Armenia/Azerbaijan/Georgia/Kazakhstan)
East Germany (Before reunification)
Czechoslovakia (Czech Republic/Slovakia)
Yugoslavia (Serbia/Croatia/Bosnia & Herzegovnia/Macedonia/Slovenia/Montenegro/Kosovo)
Poland
Hungary
Romania
Bulgaria
Albania

Eastern Bloc
As above minus Yugoslavia and its partitions



Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get you.


chris41
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Jun 5, 2014, 6:48 PM

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Re: [Ropemaker] Twenty Questions - Ambiguities [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Question about New/Old Grounds

If asked if a ground is new/old/still in use/still in existence etc., what is the position on "new builds" e.g. Wembley, Bournemouth, Millenium Stadium, Dulwich etc.

I don't wish to start the debate off about whether we can count these as a "new visit" on our travels, just for the purposes of Twenty Questions.

Apologies if this has already been settled.


Just an update from this, as the subject of Old Wembley came into play in the last game. I have changed from my initial viewpoint and for clarification suggest that Grounds which have been demolished and rebuilt whilst no football was played should be classed as New grounds. This would mean the old National Stadiums of Old Wembley,Cardiff Arms Park & The Old Lansdowne Rd etc would be classed as old grounds and no longer in existence for future reference.
I shall now put on my tin hat and go running for coverSmile


Ropemaker
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Jun 8, 2014, 3:02 PM

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Re: [chris41] Twenty Questions - Ambiguities [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Question about New/Old Grounds

If asked if a ground is new/old/still in use/still in existence etc., what is the position on "new builds" e.g. Wembley, Bournemouth, Millenium Stadium, Dulwich etc.

I don't wish to start the debate off about whether we can count these as a "new visit" on our travels, just for the purposes of Twenty Questions.

Apologies if this has already been settled.


Just an update from this, as the subject of Old Wembley came into play in the last game. I have changed from my initial viewpoint and for clarification suggest that Grounds which have been demolished and rebuilt whilst no football was played should be classed as New grounds. This would mean the old National Stadiums of Old Wembley,Cardiff Arms Park & The Old Lansdowne Rd etc would be classed as old grounds and no longer in existence for future reference.
I shall now put on my tin hat and go running for coverSmile


I think there is some sense in this. We maybe (!) familiar with the history of Wembley and the Millenium Stadium, but less so with further flung venues.

But as long as we know what the rules are Smile



Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get you.


Oxford Stone
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Dec 22, 2014, 8:18 AM

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Re: [Ropemaker] Twenty Questions - Ambiguities [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Spanish / Portuguese surnames

At time of writing I've got this wrong in quiz #757... here is my suggestion, but anyone with more in-depth knowledge feel free to correct.

In Spanish and Portuguese there is the custom of having two surnames, one's mother's followed by one's father's.

However in a phone book of other alphabetical list it's the father's which would be used. Gabriel García Lorca would be L for Lorca. Forget any da / dos / de, so Edson Arantes do Nascimento is N.

The wiki list of eg famous Portuguese footballers is very patchy on this, as obviously it's crowdsourced.


Ropemaker
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Mar 19, 2015, 12:32 PM

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Re: [Oxford Stone] Twenty Questions - Ambiguities [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

European Championship Winning Nations

The list obviously includes Soviet Union and Czechoslovakia.

Wiki (and elsewhere probably) includes "Russia as Soviet Union" and "Czech Republic as Czechoslovakia" amongst the winners. i.e. Not Slovakia or other Soviet nations.

I'm happy to go along with that convention.



Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get you.


chris41
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Mar 19, 2015, 5:33 PM

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In Reply To
European Championship Winning Nations

The list obviously includes Soviet Union and Czechoslovakia.

Wiki (and elsewhere probably) includes "Russia as Soviet Union" and "Czech Republic as Czechoslovakia" amongst the winners. i.e. Not Slovakia or other Soviet nations.

I'm happy to go along with that convention.


Seems a bit harsh on Slovakia especially as over half the team were born in & playing for Slovak clubs. Maybe just a good clarification Question needed like your one in the last game. e.g

1) From a Euro Championship winning nation including nations from former USSR & Czechoslovakia
2) From a Current/present day nation that has won the Euro Championship


Ropemaker
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Mar 19, 2015, 7:10 PM

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In Reply To

In Reply To
European Championship Winning Nations

The list obviously includes Soviet Union and Czechoslovakia.

Wiki (and elsewhere probably) includes "Russia as Soviet Union" and "Czech Republic as Czechoslovakia" amongst the winners. i.e. Not Slovakia or other Soviet nations.

I'm happy to go along with that convention.


Seems a bit harsh on Slovakia especially as over half the team were born in & playing for Slovak clubs. Maybe just a good clarification Question needed like your one in the last game. e.g

1) From a Euro Championship winning nation including nations from former USSR & Czechoslovakia
2) From a Current/present day nation that has won the Euro Championship


Probably the better option.

From a Euro Championship winning nation including certain, possibly not all, nations from former USSR & Czechoslovakia.



Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get you.


chris41
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Apr 21, 2015, 4:40 PM

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Re: [Ropemaker] Twenty Questions - Ambiguities [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Balkans Countries

To now include the following as suggested from Wikipedia

Albania, Bosnia & Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Croatia, Greece, Kosova, Macedonia, Montenegro ,Romania, Serbia ,Slovenia and Turkey.


Hope that this will meet with everyones approval.

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