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Home: Archive: Prediction League:
Non-League Champions League 2009/10 - how should it look?

 



oftenscore6
Chelsea Transfer Target / Moderator

May 4, 2009, 6:23 PM

Posts: 5207
Location: Saddleworth
Team(s): FCUM, MUFC, Hammarby, St Pauli, Hawthorn (AFL)

Post #1 of 17 (35096 views)
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Non-League Champions League 2009/10 - how should it look? Can't Post or Reply Privately

A couple of things have been mentioned previously as potential improvements:

Interim positions to be based on ppg rather than current positions
Inclusion of step 5 leagues - though that could be a separate comp (Europa leagueWink?) or at reduced points because there are 14 of them!

I'm conscious there is very little difference in points between 5th and 6th, though one is in, and the other out of, the playoff positions, which is pretty significant. There is also no difference between 9th and just escaping relegation, or from walking the league (eg Dover) and it being close all season (say Kingstonian). Two posibilities are to have it as a simple points total or a reverse position count (ie 1 for 1st, lowest score wins). Or we can certainly leave it as is.

I'd also like to know what people like and don't like about the weekly updates I did.

If people have any other suggestions for improvement, or comments on the above, please post here! Anything which seems popular, I'll put to a vote in June.



-----------------------------------------------
Last new football ground (948) Baza Arcom Progresul Spartac 1-1 Unirea Bascov
With FC United: 133
On the agenda:
24/9 Warrington Town v FC United
28/9 FC United v Bamber Bridge
29/9 Connahs Quay Nomads v Penybont


vienna1964
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May 5, 2009, 2:18 AM

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Post #2 of 17 (35079 views)
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Re: [oftenscore6] Non-League Champions League 2009/10 - how should it look? [In reply to] Can't Post or

Funnily, was thinking about this over the weekend.

I reckon that each player's selections should be given as either an overall percentage success rate -or instead- as an overall wins v. losses figure.

In the first idea, the points values would best be converted into 2-per-win (due to the 'mysterious' points-loss under the 3-per-win scenario when a draw happens !)... meaning then that the player scores the percentage points won from the total possible for his selection in each league. Those may then be averaged.

Potentially, Cup progress might be difficult to include in the average, unless a simplified 'equivalent' is worked out from number of actual points won (as if in a 2-per-win league) compared to the potential total that might have been accrued from winning the tournament. But then, I think that everyone would have to pick from the sdame Step -or- everyone picks one team from each Step and their average progress be measured.

In the second idea - everything is that much simpler - just counting wins minus losses, and in the Cups this would continue... counting any Round not competed in after being knocked-out as a further 'loss'.

I rather like the idea of us each picking several sides to follow in the various Cups and this could be retained under the second set of rules if popular.



I APOLOGISE UNRESERVEDLY TO EACH AND EVERY PERSON ON THIS FORUM WHO HAS FELT LET-DOWN BY MY INIMICABLE AND DEPLORABLE BEHAVIOUR OF OCTOBER 28th. 2009. ESPECIALLY TO BRIAN, WHO IS A MARVELLOUS GENTLEMAN AND IS THE LAST PERSON HERE WHO SHOULD HAVE TO PUT UP WITH SUCH UNDESERVED PERSONAL CHARACTER-ASSASSINATION. LET IT BE KNOWN THAT A PRIVATE PERSONAL APOLOGY WAS SENT, BUT WAS SEEN INSUFFICIENT. FAIR ENOUGH.


T P
Youth Team Star

May 5, 2009, 7:20 PM

Posts: 271
Location: East London/Essex
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Post #3 of 17 (35055 views)
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Re: [oftenscore6] Non-League Champions League 2009/10 - how should it look? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I showed my support at the time of suggestion but I'd be much in favour of step 5 being accomodated in this game.

I would also be in favour of having it so that it is the total number of points accumulated. When people are tied on the same number of points, the goals for and against of the teams that they selected could be totalled up and the goal difference worked out from that. When it comes to playoffs at the end of the season a number of bonus points can then be added.

Could it be possible next term to allow the same team to be picked for more then one competition, e.g. League and Trophy.

With the cup competitions, the amount of rounds a team participates in and wins could gain a point, with bonuses being available for still being in the competition at a later stage, e.g. quarter final onwards.

The FA Cup system that you have currently in place would still be the same, the only difference being points for the number of rounds that they are in.


RRYFS
First Team Sub


May 5, 2009, 11:05 PM

Posts: 1012
Location: Poole
Team(s): Leicester City, AFC Bournemouth, Hamworthy United

Post #4 of 17 (35045 views)
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Re: [oftenscore6] Non-League Champions League 2009/10 - how should it look? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

 
I don't mind having a go at running a separate Step 5 competition if people want that (and if I could borrow whatever templates you use!).


vienna1964
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May 5, 2009, 11:18 PM

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Post #5 of 17 (35042 views)
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Re: [RRYFS] Non-League Champions League 2009/10 - how should it look? [In reply to] Can't Post or

However you'd like to score up from basic tables, I'd be happy to work out a worksheet to 'automatically calculate' the figures you'd need !

It'd probably only take me minutes as I likely have something similar in Excel already (for my pools/predictions) and am pleased to share.

All you'd need to do is copy and paste a current league table into the relevant area and Robert would then be one's maternal or paternal sibling !



I APOLOGISE UNRESERVEDLY TO EACH AND EVERY PERSON ON THIS FORUM WHO HAS FELT LET-DOWN BY MY INIMICABLE AND DEPLORABLE BEHAVIOUR OF OCTOBER 28th. 2009. ESPECIALLY TO BRIAN, WHO IS A MARVELLOUS GENTLEMAN AND IS THE LAST PERSON HERE WHO SHOULD HAVE TO PUT UP WITH SUCH UNDESERVED PERSONAL CHARACTER-ASSASSINATION. LET IT BE KNOWN THAT A PRIVATE PERSONAL APOLOGY WAS SENT, BUT WAS SEEN INSUFFICIENT. FAIR ENOUGH.


RRYFS
First Team Sub


May 5, 2009, 11:23 PM

Posts: 1012
Location: Poole
Team(s): Leicester City, AFC Bournemouth, Hamworthy United

Post #6 of 17 (35041 views)
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Re: [vienna1964] Non-League Champions League 2009/10 - how should it look? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

 
Is that what Oftenscore6 has used this season - that has looked a fairly simple system for the number of entrants we seem to get. I guess Step 5 would be unlikely to attract loads more.


oftenscore6
Chelsea Transfer Target / Moderator

Jun 7, 2009, 6:25 PM

Posts: 5207
Location: Saddleworth
Team(s): FCUM, MUFC, Hammarby, St Pauli, Hawthorn (AFL)

Post #7 of 17 (34656 views)
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Re: [RRYFS] Non-League Champions League 2009/10 - how should it look? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Actually, I didn't use any macros last year because there wasn't so much variety in the choices, but would accept Vienna's offer for next year!

So, the items to vote on are:

1) a) Interim positions based on current positions b) ppg
2) a) Include step 5 b) Separate comp for step 5 c) Same comp but half scores for step 5 d) Steps 1-4 only
3) a) One team per Cup comp b) One team per step in Cup comps
4) a) Same side allowed in League & Cups b) Each club only selectable once
5) a) Current Cup scoring b) One point per win with bonuses in Cup comps
6) a) League scoring as is b) 1 for 1st, 22 for 22nd etc., lowest score wins c) points total d) 2pts for win points total e) wins-losses
7) a) Weekly updates as is b) I'd improve.....

If you have no preference, please leave that one out. Voting is open for a month.



-----------------------------------------------
Last new football ground (948) Baza Arcom Progresul Spartac 1-1 Unirea Bascov
With FC United: 133
On the agenda:
24/9 Warrington Town v FC United
28/9 FC United v Bamber Bridge
29/9 Connahs Quay Nomads v Penybont


vienna1964
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Jun 7, 2009, 7:03 PM

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Post #8 of 17 (34651 views)
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Re: [oftenscore6] Non-League Champions League 2009/10 - how should it look? [In reply to] Can't Post or

My vote:~


1) b) ppg
2) a) Include step 5
3) b) One team per step in Cup comps
4) a) Same side allowed in League & Cups
5) b) One point per win with bonuses in Cup comps
6) e) wins-losses
7) a) Weekly updates as is





I APOLOGISE UNRESERVEDLY TO EACH AND EVERY PERSON ON THIS FORUM WHO HAS FELT LET-DOWN BY MY INIMICABLE AND DEPLORABLE BEHAVIOUR OF OCTOBER 28th. 2009. ESPECIALLY TO BRIAN, WHO IS A MARVELLOUS GENTLEMAN AND IS THE LAST PERSON HERE WHO SHOULD HAVE TO PUT UP WITH SUCH UNDESERVED PERSONAL CHARACTER-ASSASSINATION. LET IT BE KNOWN THAT A PRIVATE PERSONAL APOLOGY WAS SENT, BUT WAS SEEN INSUFFICIENT. FAIR ENOUGH.


Pat B
Chelsea Transfer Target


Jun 7, 2009, 9:32 PM

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Post #9 of 17 (34644 views)
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Re: [vienna1964] Non-League Champions League 2009/10 - how should it look? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

My vote is A for all 7 selections


T P
Youth Team Star

Jun 9, 2009, 12:26 PM

Posts: 271
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Post #10 of 17 (34600 views)
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Re: [oftenscore6] Non-League Champions League 2009/10 - how should it look? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

My vote would be:
1) a) Interim positions based on current positions b) ppg
2) a) Include step 5 b) Separate comp for step 5 c) Same comp but half scores for step 5 d) Steps 1-4 only
3) a) One team per Cup comp b) One team per step in Cup comps
4) a) Same side allowed in League & Cups b) Each club only selectable once
5) a) Current Cup scoring b) One point per win with bonuses in Cup comps
6) a) League scoring as is b) 1 for 1st, 22 for 22nd etc., lowest score wins c) points total d) 2pts for win points total e) wins-losses
7) a) Weekly updates as is b) I'd improve.....

For 6 I'd be happy with either suggestion highlighted. Can i suggest that when you have set it up for people to make there suggestions, that they can enter both in this section and the general section, as i think in that way you may obtain more people to enter through "passing trade"


oftenscore6
Chelsea Transfer Target / Moderator

Jun 9, 2009, 9:50 PM

Posts: 5207
Location: Saddleworth
Team(s): FCUM, MUFC, Hammarby, St Pauli, Hawthorn (AFL)

Post #11 of 17 (34528 views)
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Re: [T P] Non-League Champions League 2009/10 - how should it look? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Good idea T P, done as suggested!



-----------------------------------------------
Last new football ground (948) Baza Arcom Progresul Spartac 1-1 Unirea Bascov
With FC United: 133
On the agenda:
24/9 Warrington Town v FC United
28/9 FC United v Bamber Bridge
29/9 Connahs Quay Nomads v Penybont


slough_womble
Youth Team Regular


Jun 11, 2009, 2:14 PM

Posts: 191
Location: slough
Team(s): AFC Wimbledon, Burnham

Post #12 of 17 (34475 views)
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Re: [oftenscore6] Non-League Champions League 2009/10 - how should it look? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Sorry but can I ask what exactly this thread is about?



womble till I die!!!!!!!!!!


oftenscore6
Chelsea Transfer Target / Moderator

Jun 11, 2009, 3:18 PM

Posts: 5207
Location: Saddleworth
Team(s): FCUM, MUFC, Hammarby, St Pauli, Hawthorn (AFL)

Post #13 of 17 (34472 views)
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Re: [slough_womble] Non-League Champions League 2009/10 - how should it look? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

This is about a prediction competition, which if you have a look at the other threads in this forum, you'll see examples of entries and results for last year. I'll happily answer any questions!



-----------------------------------------------
Last new football ground (948) Baza Arcom Progresul Spartac 1-1 Unirea Bascov
With FC United: 133
On the agenda:
24/9 Warrington Town v FC United
28/9 FC United v Bamber Bridge
29/9 Connahs Quay Nomads v Penybont


Jon M
Reserve Team Regular

Jun 29, 2009, 1:07 PM

Posts: 592
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Post #14 of 17 (34268 views)
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Re: [oftenscore6] Non-League Champions League 2009/10 - how should it look? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Actually, I didn't use any macros last year because there wasn't so much variety in the choices, but would accept Vienna's offer for next year!

So, the items to vote on are:

1) a) Interim positions based on current positions b) ppg
2) a) Include step 5 b) Separate comp for step 5 c) Same comp but half scores for step 5 d) Steps 1-4 only
3) a) One team per Cup comp b) One team per step in Cup comps
4) a) Same side allowed in League & Cups b) Each club only selectable once
5) a) Current Cup scoring b) One point per win with bonuses in Cup comps
6) a) League scoring as is b) 1 for 1st, 22 for 22nd etc., lowest score wins c) points total d) 2pts for win points total e) wins-losses
7) a) Weekly updates as is b) I'd improve.....

If you have no preference, please leave that one out. Voting is open for a month.


With my former organiser hat on, then the reason that it was set up in this format was twofold, i) effort on my part and ii) not overcomplicating the whole thing for entrants by having too many nominations to make. Currently entrants need to nominate 15 clubs, by adding Step 5 & multi-step cup entrants this is getting close to 40, which may prove offputting to some people, particularly those whose knowledge is limited to only certian parts of the pyramid (regions/Steps).
It appears Oftenscore6 is not concerned about (i), but I suggest that (ii) remains a valid concern.

With that in mind, my responses are:

1) 'b' - potentially more effort for OS6 (scoring & finding things to say in commentaries, given that score movements may reduce) but that is his choice so why not, if it gives a truer picture through the season.
2) 'd' - I'm inclined to say 'd' for fear of overcomplicating the entry process, but if the mood is for something for step 5, I would say 'c' to avoid overweighting the competition in favour of this step and that a separate competition is unlikely to get the level of entries. How are you going to deal with the negative points for relegation places, given that different leagues relegate in different fashions?
3) 'a' ('b') - Again, a danger of confusion with an overload of teams to nominate, but I can see the appeal so perhaps one per step for the FA cup only but sticking with a single nomination for the Trophy and Vase
4) 'b' - I did selectable only once to make people think a little more, so I'm going to stick with that
5) 'a' - 'b' might be workable with multi-step entries, although I still think the current score system holds up. 'b' would definately not suit any cup with a single nomination as I think this part of the competition should reward the club going furthest, not one from the bottom of the ladder who wins a few qualifiers but still goes out before others come in.
6) 'a' - the rest are getting too complicated.
7) 'a' - weekly updates as is - aka, its entirely up to you what you cover and when...

However, I'm more than happy for you to take your own decisions on where you take this competition and will enter regardless, just to expose myself as the clueless buffoon that I am when it comes to these things...


hawkwind
First Team Star

Jun 29, 2009, 3:35 PM

Posts: 1986
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Post #15 of 17 (34264 views)
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Re: [Jon M] Non-League Champions League 2009/10 - how should it look? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I've enjoyed this competition over the last couple of seasons so first many thanks to Jon M and oftenscore6. I like the easy to enter, simple to follow, format.

My reply:

1) a) Interim positions based on current positions
2) d) Steps 1-4 only (2nd choice a) Include step 5)
3) a) One team per Cup comp
4) No preference between a) Same side allowed in League & Cups b) Each club only selectable once
5) a) Current Cup scoring
6) a) League scoring as is
7) a) Weekly updates as is (the accompanying comment has been great)


Doody
Junior Team Regular

Jul 2, 2009, 7:07 PM

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Post #16 of 17 (34193 views)
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Re: [hawkwind] Non-League Champions League 2009/10 - how should it look? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

My votes are


1) a) Interim positions based on current positions
2) d) Steps 1-4 only - this is only because I know less about step 5, if Step 5 were to be included then a) Include step 5
3) a) One team per Cup comp
4) a) Same side allowed in League & Cups
5) a) Current Cup scoring
6) a) League scoring as is
7) a) Weekly updates as is


oftenscore6
Chelsea Transfer Target / Moderator

Jul 9, 2009, 2:23 PM

Posts: 5207
Location: Saddleworth
Team(s): FCUM, MUFC, Hammarby, St Pauli, Hawthorn (AFL)

Post #17 of 17 (34047 views)
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Re: [Doody] Non-League Champions League 2009/10 - how should it look? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

OK, so the views expressed show:
1) Some support for ppg but still a preference for interim positions on current positions
2) Dead heat between including step 5 and only doing steps 1-4
3) One team per Cup comp
4) Same side can be used in both
5) Some support for revising the Cup scoring but still a preference for keeping as is
6) league scoring as is
7) weekly updates as is

Re 1, my preference is for the majority view, current positions, so I am going to keep it that way

Re 2, I have decided to include step 5 sides but will produce step 1-4 pts and step 5 points (and a total) separately in the current table (only). This will split will be mentioned in commentaries.

Re 5, I am in favour of a change here. Given the 4-3 majority support is for as is, I am going to leave the Vase and Trophy as currently, but revise the FA Cup to being 1 point per win with bonuses as follows
1st round proper - 1 pt;
2nd round proper - 3 pts;
3rd round proper - 5 pts;
4th round proper (or further) - 7pts.

You can pick a team that starts earlier, and they will score for their wins, but no bonus until 1st round proper. You only get the final bonus due ie if a Conference side reaches round 2, they get 1 point for each of their wins in 4Q and 1P plus the round 2 bonus = 5. Walkovers / expulsions / byes (if there are any) will not count towards wins, but do towards bonuses.

Further to discussions at the end of last season, if a club's record is expunged due to liquidation, they will be deemed to be in a relegation spot. Otherwise, they get the position where they finished after any points deductions are applied. Demotions due to post-season liquidation, ground grading etc. will not be considered in determining the relegation points. Re the step 5 leagues, I will take the relegation spots as being those indicated on the nonleaguematters.co.uk pages, but default to 2 per division otherwise.

Registrations will open now and continue until the first competitive match in these divisions / Cups (Sat 8th Aug 3pm at this stage).



-----------------------------------------------
Last new football ground (948) Baza Arcom Progresul Spartac 1-1 Unirea Bascov
With FC United: 133
On the agenda:
24/9 Warrington Town v FC United
28/9 FC United v Bamber Bridge
29/9 Connahs Quay Nomads v Penybont

(This post was edited by oftenscore6 on Jul 9, 2009, 2:25 PM)

 
 


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