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Home: Ground Hopping & Programmes: International Hopping:
Argentina advice please

 



StephenHarris
First Team Sub


Oct 14, 2008, 4:10 PM

Posts: 1036
Location: Leyton, London, England
Team(s): Leyton Orient, Hastings United, CA Huracan

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Argentina advice please Can't Post or Reply Privately

I may have the weekend of 10-11 January 2009 at leisure in Buenos Aires, one of the world's great footballing cities, but I'm struggling in my initial football research.
Although not completely ignorant of the Spanish language I'm having no joy making head nor tail of the websites I've viewed so far (even the Boca one, which is partly in English).
Can anyone tell me if January is even within the Argentine season, or give any guidance on how to find out?
If this comes together, I will no doubt be on here again asking for advice on personal security at games in BA.


Chris1963
Man City Transfer Target!

Oct 14, 2008, 4:30 PM

Posts: 7067
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Re: [StephenHarris] Argentina advice please [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Not sure if they will be playing their domestic season in January but I went there in May/June 1996, saw nearly 20 games in all, mostly in top division. Buying tickets on the day was easy and the only match that would cause any problems is Boca v. River Plate, not that this fixture was being played during my trip anyway.

BA is on the whole, a safe city and crowd trouble at matches I attended was minimal. I suppose things may have changed since and I believe other groundhoppers may have been there in more recent years so they may be able to help you more than I can.


(This post was edited by Chris1963 on Oct 14, 2008, 4:30 PM)


StephenHarris
First Team Sub


Oct 14, 2008, 4:34 PM

Posts: 1036
Location: Leyton, London, England
Team(s): Leyton Orient, Hastings United, CA Huracan

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Thanks Chris. I've now managed to find fixtures up to the 19th round (on the River Plate site), which is on the weekend of 13/14 December. Looks like maybe a Christmas break after that.


(This post was edited by StephenHarris on Oct 14, 2008, 4:37 PM)


Richard Rundle
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Oct 14, 2008, 5:04 PM

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In Reply To
Thanks Chris. I've now managed to find fixtures up to the 19th round (on the River Plate site), which is on the weekend of 13/14 December. Looks like maybe a Christmas break after that.


If the season is like last season, the Apertura finishes in early December, and the Clausura starts in early February.

--
Richard


Sigma
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Oct 14, 2008, 6:37 PM

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Over the past few years there have been big problems in Argentina with crowd trouble.



moravianfootball.blogspot.com


MattRamLives
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Oct 15, 2008, 10:04 AM

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I'm sure they have suspended all football in the recent past on at least one occasion, probably best not to wear an England shirt


Chris1963
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Oct 15, 2008, 10:19 AM

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I suppose there might be pre-season friendlies being played, assuming of course you are willing to count those.
Incidentally I should add that some maps of BA show misleading info for a club called Platense. The large area marked as their stadium is in fact their training ground! Their stadium is a much more compact and hemmed-in venue some distance away.
Perhaps you could also take a look at the Argentinos Juniors ground and report back here if it has been rebuilt? It was derelict in 1996 and the club were playing home games at Atlanta then.


Chris1963
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Oct 15, 2008, 10:23 AM

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Which reminds me, at one match I attended on my 1996 tour (played in early June on a holiday) a march of Falklands veterans holding a large flag of the Malvinas took place around the pitch before the match. I took a photo of it, which takes pride of place in my collection. It was just as well no-one in the stadium had any way of realising that I was English!


StephenHarris
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Oct 15, 2008, 11:48 AM

Posts: 1036
Location: Leyton, London, England
Team(s): Leyton Orient, Hastings United, CA Huracan

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In Reply To

In Reply To
Thanks Chris. I've now managed to find fixtures up to the 19th round (on the River Plate site), which is on the weekend of 13/14 December. Looks like maybe a Christmas break after that.


If the season is like last season, the Apertura finishes in early December, and the Clausura starts in early February.

--
Richard


Ouch! I'm having a rethink on dates.
Thanks for all the advice.


sonofhod
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Oct 15, 2008, 12:30 PM

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Go on www.soccerway.com all 7 levels with games/dates in second rounds except for top div.


StephenHarris
First Team Sub


Oct 15, 2008, 1:14 PM

Posts: 1036
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Thanks Sonofhod - that pretty much confirms that January is a dead month for football in BA, until some lower leagues restart on the last weekend. I'm back to the drawing board.


StephenHarris
First Team Sub


Oct 17, 2008, 5:21 PM

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Team(s): Leyton Orient, Hastings United, CA Huracan

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Trip now completely re-planned, in large part because of advice and website links received here.
Will now be in Montevideo on Saturday 29 November.
ideal match: CA Penarol vs Club Nacional
And in Buenos Aires on Sunday 30 November.
ideal match: Boca vs Racing
But both matches are subject to confirmation of actual kick-off days and times. Should be plenty of alternatives if these fall through. Outside chance of picking up other games(s) in one or other city on way home in second week of December.
All this means that my planned visit to Luzern and Belinzona at the end of November has had to be scrapped. But I think on balance I'd rather go to Argentina and Uruguay!


3-1-5-1
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Oct 17, 2008, 7:19 PM

Posts: 541
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You'll probably get the chance of a double in Montevideo on the Saturday. The second division programme is always on a Saturday and games tend to kick off at 5pm, the same time as top tier games, but there's always a televised game which usually kicks of at 10.10 am and it's virtually certain to be a Montevideo based team. Most games in the top tier tend to get shifted to the Sunday, so I think you're going to be unlucky with the Penarol-Nacional game. Two or three games are usually played on the Saturday, however, so you'd have to be really unlucky not to get a top tier game that day.

I've only seen a game at Parque Capurro, home of Fenix, which is very dilapidated and a fair old taxi ride out of town, but there are great views across the port. They are often on the TV, so you could well end up here if you so desired!! If you do, take your own refreshments.

Second division website link below.

http://www.futbolvida.com.uy/

If you have the time, make sure you get down to the Mercado Publico - full of bars and restaurants and a very enjoyable way of spending a few hours. Beware though, that it closes at about 6pm!!

You may also get the chance of a double in Buenos Aires as well, as the kick off times tend to be staggered. This coming Sunday, for example, sees games starting at 1310, 1510, 1740 and 2210, although only the first two are actually in Buenos Aires.



Eu sou Gaucho!

(This post was edited by 3-1-5-1 on Oct 17, 2008, 7:20 PM)


billbaxter
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Oct 21, 2008, 3:53 PM

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some input re Argentina

during that weekend the standout game, as regards atmosphere, in Buenos Aires should be the clasico Huracan v San Lorenzo. However having done some checking it seems Huracan are not playing at their normal stadium (see below) so that could dilute the atmosphere. But on the positive side it will soon be their centenary which is a very big event over there.

Boca v Racing would be good of course , as would Tigre v River and probably seeing Chacarita in Primera B.

as always in that country be aware that things can change - games can be moved to different stadiums, sometimes played behind closed doors, no away fans etc.

& security - thats somewhat more specific - feel free to email me.


for a flavour see http://billthenavigator.blogspot.com
April/May & November 2007 + November 2006.

(This post was edited by billbaxter on Oct 21, 2008, 4:39 PM)


StephenHarris
First Team Sub


Nov 25, 2008, 1:23 PM

Posts: 1036
Location: Leyton, London, England
Team(s): Leyton Orient, Hastings United, CA Huracan

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Well, I'm off to South America on Thursday. Fixture planning has been a nightmare, to say the least. We have just today discovered that there will be no top level games in Uruguay this weekend because of crowd trouble in recent weeks. So we will go straight to Buenos Aires for (hopefully) the following programme:
Friday evening: Independiente vs Banfield
Saturday pm: Huracan vs San Lorenzo
Saturday eve: Lanus vs Arsenal Sarandi
Sunday pm: perhaps a lower level game
Sunday eve: Boca vs Racing

I also hope to see a couple of games in Madrid on the way home.

I will post reports here when I get back - or possibly "Mishi-style" along the way, should I find myself in an 'internet-cantina' at any point.

Any last minute tips gratefully received.


sonofhod
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Nov 25, 2008, 1:30 PM

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In Reply To
.

Any last minute tips gratefully received.

Dont wear your Maggie Thatcher T-shirt ! Have fun, hope your not a veggie.


Chris1963
Man City Transfer Target!

Nov 25, 2008, 6:21 PM

Posts: 7067
Location: North London
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There is actually a vegetarian restaurant in Buenos Aires city centre!
'Subway' sandwich outlets (becoming widespread everywhere) are also useful in this respect too. But I have to admit that Argentina can be a bit of a challenge in this respect, particularly outside the major cities.


billbaxter
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Nov 26, 2008, 7:38 AM

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maybe you're aware that Huracan v San Lorenzo is being played at Boca

and Independiente play at Racing whilst their stadium is being re-built (as they are so close it would be worth a look to check the progress)


StephenHarris
First Team Sub


Nov 26, 2008, 2:18 PM

Posts: 1036
Location: Leyton, London, England
Team(s): Leyton Orient, Hastings United, CA Huracan

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We had worked out that the Independiente game was probably being played at Racing's ground - although I did see a comment on the internet that the rebuilt Estadio Libertadores ground was due to reopen at the end of November 2008. But as the grounds are next door to each other we thought we'd just follow the crowds when we got there.

But we had not been able to work out exectly where Huracan are playing at present. So thaks for your info - it will probably prompt yet another rethink of our schedule so as to avoid going to Boca twice!


billbaxter
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Nov 27, 2008, 10:10 AM

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checkout the afa.org.ar site for fixture details or if you're already there get the excellent sports paper , Ole.
also get the guide (medium size is most convenient) to BA as it has the ground locations.
skyscrapercity.com has recent pics of the new Independiente stadium (as well as other useful stadium developments)

worth remembering that its the home fans that are kept in whilst the away fans depart - this process can take a while.
act like a local
- oh and if you're in with home fans (usually best) then don't cheer when the away side score.


StephenHarris
First Team Sub


Dec 6, 2008, 11:05 PM

Posts: 1036
Location: Leyton, London, England
Team(s): Leyton Orient, Hastings United, CA Huracan

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Near goaless in Argentina

Well, we have had a mixed bag of games in Argentina. Missing our planned ferry from Montevideo meant that we could not make it to Independiente for the Friday night game and ended up watching the second half on our hotel TV. That left Saturday as our first football day:

Huracan 1-0 San Lorenzo, match suspended; Argentina First Division; att: 17,000; Entry by tout; programme issued.

Our chosen afternoon game was Huracan v San Lorenzo and we knew that this fixture was to be played at Boca Juniors' "La Bonbonera" ground. Our helpful morning newspaper (we did not discover Ole until the Monday morning) informed us that this had been declared a "security high risk match", with 1,100 police on duty and the crowd restricted to 23,000. Worse, arriving very early at the ground we learnt that entry was by advance ticket only with very strict segregation in force. (And we discovered that the following day's Boca Juniors home game was a sell-out). Luckily, Argentine touts look very much like touts anywhere else in the world and we were soon sorted out with tickets in the Huracan end and able to relax.

The ground is a magnificent three tiered effort in 1950s concrete, sweeping around three sides. The fourth has a small seated area and rows of boxes (including Diego Maradona's personal box) piled vertically above. The whole provides space for around 55,000 on a very tight site, with a FIFA minimum length pitch. The ends have three tiers of terrace, including a huge middle section, and the side three tiers of seats. We found ourselves in the packed solid middle tier at the Huracan end, where the atmosphere built up early. It was a sea of red and white, balloons, flags, banners, drums etc... The opposite end was the same, the middle tier packed solid and a mass of red and blue. It was a very hot and humid day with many fans arriving in the minimum of clothing. The atmosphere was genial with many families and children present, although I will admit that we stood well to the side and the back and away from the thick of the action. The remainder of the stadium was mostly empty.

Huracan started on the front foot, played some excellent attacking football and scored a great goal early on - in light rain. A Huracan player was then sent off for a nasty foul, in heavy rain. Thunder, lightning and 59 millimeters of rain then fell in 40 minutes. The game was suspended after 16 minutes and play picked up on Tuesday evening at the point it was left off (but without us being present). It took an hour to clear the San Lorenzo fans from the area before we were let out - only to find the surrounding streets flooded and public transport in disaray. Soaked to the skin, we made it back to our hotel and abandoned any thoughts of our evenming game at Lanus. To our surprise, this game did actually go ahead, the worst effects of the heavy storm being quite localised.

A basic match programme (just an A4 sheet printed on both sides and folded three time) had been issued for the game.

Sunday 30 November 2008: Argentinos Juniors 0-0 Rosario Central, Argentina Div 1; att: 6,000; Entry 50 Pesos; no programme issued.

The fixtures on Sunday did not fall kindly for us and we had to chose one game to go to with no chance of a double. Argentinos got the nod and we made our way to their Estadio Diego Armando Maradona, situated in a relatively smart suburb. They are not really a big club and the whole event was much lower key than the previous day's Huracan game. The stadium is three-sided, again on a very tight footprint. One side and one end have uncovered terracing, one section along the side having a block of seats for away fans. The main side is an uncovered triple-decker. There is a paddock at the front, seven rows of seating in the in the centre and a large block of terracing above. In total there is room for around 25,000. We splashed out on a best seat in the centre of the main stand.

The game was a very cautious one with both teams in the wrong half of the table and seemingly more worried about losing than trying to win. But here were some good skills on display and a good atmosphere (with many away fans present) and it was an enjoyable experience.

Disappointingly there was no match programme issued, but a smart monthly magazine sold around the ground for 2 Pesos.

Monday 1 December 2008: Atlanta 0-0 Deportivo Merlo; Argentina Primera B; att: c. 750; Entry 40 Pesos; programme issued.

Luckily we had discovered the daily Ole football paper by now, otherwise we would not have known that Atlanta are not using their own large, but run-down stadium, but are groundsharing at Platense. The Esatdio Ciudad do Vicente Lopez is not in tip top condition itself, but is a likeable venue. Three sides are comprised of open terracing, with large white crush barriers and the word 'PLATENSE' in large white letters, Hollywood style, on one side. The opposite side has a very large, single tier uncovered stand. The capacity is probably around 18,000.

This game had a bit of a non-league feel. A formerly big club, fallen on hard times, it is 25 years since Atlanta last graced the top division (we think). They still have a few fans, who decorated the home end with their banners and sang throughout the game. But the main stand had a lot of 'Monday-night boys', the sort I see at Barkingside on a Monday night who are there because it's the only game on. These were in the main stand, mostly crowded around the burger bar, studying their programmes and discussing the local football scene.

To be honest, it was a dreadful game. A carbon copy of the nervous game at Argentinos Juniors but without the skill and played on a bumpy pitch. One of those "they'll never score in a hundred years" sort of games. An altogether enjoyable experience though. Merlo brought 21 supporters (mysteriously reduced by 8 at half time) and a more harmless bunch you could not hope to see. Nevertheless there was a large police presence, with mounted officers, armed officers, riot shields and body armour. All a bit over-the-top we felt.

A simple, photocopied match programme was issued free of charge and we were able to pick up a free Buenos Aires lower division football fanzine as well.

So ended the football part of our trip to Argentina. We are now in Salta, immune from football fever. But I hope to take in a couple of games in Madrid next weekend on the way home.


(This post was edited by StephenHarris on Dec 7, 2008, 1:36 AM)


StephenHarris
First Team Sub


Dec 18, 2008, 2:12 PM

Posts: 1036
Location: Leyton, London, England
Team(s): Leyton Orient, Hastings United, CA Huracan

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A couple of postcripts to this trip:

1) I have uploaded a photo each of the grounds of Huracan, Boca Juniors, Argentinos Juniors, Atlanta and Platense onto my usual football grounds webpage at the following link. If you want to see them, follow the link and click to go to page 10 of the thumbnails. Each photo is placed on the Google Earth satellite and mapping thingy, so you can see exactly where each ground is.

http://www.panoramio.com/...986765/tags/Football

2) A couple of people have said that I must be disappointed with the football I saw - just two and a bit games and only one goal. The answer is that I am not at all disappointed and loved every minute of it. I was not in Argentina to watch football, so seeing some games was a real bonus. The abandoned game at Huracan was one of the most memorable and dramatic I have ever attended anywhere. The fact that it was cut short by a storm actually added to the occasion from my point of view, not subtracted from it.

3) I have been asked about the match programmes. The ones we received free at the Huracan and Atlanta games were low quality issues, but were very nice souvenirs. Argentinos Juniors did not produce a programme but sold a monthly magazine. Acasusso also ground share at Platense and produce a reasonable match programme, the best I saw (I found one under my seat). Other than that I have no info on Argentine programme issuing. I have a small number of spare copies of the Huracan programme and will post these to any who want one and send me a private message requesting a copy - until they run out.

Stephen Harris

 
 


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