Home: Games: Twenty Questions:
Twenty Questions #1121



Karb
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     Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
Very much a speculative long range effort there!

This one could either be classed as a person and reason or an e/o. Lets call it an e/o. And off you go.



"People do not have moments of truth in station waiting rooms"


paulh66
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     Re: [Karb] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
Can this e/o be watched on YouTube?


Karb
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     Re: [paulh66] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
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Can this e/o be watched on YouTube?
Yes



"People do not have moments of truth in station waiting rooms"


John Treleven
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     Re: [Karb] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
1988 to date?


BDA_85
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     Re: [Karb] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
In Europe?


Karb
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     Re: [John Treleven] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
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1988 to date?
No. 1987 or earlier



"People do not have moments of truth in station waiting rooms"


Karb
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     Re: [BDA_85] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
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In Europe?
Yes



"People do not have moments of truth in station waiting rooms"


Ropemaker
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     Re: [Karb] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
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In Reply To
In Europe?
Yes
UK?



Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get you.


Karb
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     Re: [Ropemaker] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
Yes, in the UK



"People do not have moments of truth in station waiting rooms"


paulh66
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     Re: [Karb] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
Does this e/o involve the scoring of a goal?


Karb
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     Re: [paulh66] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
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Does this e/o involve the scoring of a goal?
Not specifically, no



"People do not have moments of truth in station waiting rooms"


Ropemaker
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     Re: [Karb] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
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Yes, in the UK
South of Washing Line?



Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get you.


Karb
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     Re: [Ropemaker] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
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In Reply To
Yes, in the UK
South of Washing Line?
Yes



"People do not have moments of truth in station waiting rooms"


John Treleven
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     Re: [Karb] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
1956-1987?


BDA_85
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     Re: [Karb] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
Within the M25?


Karb
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     Re: [John Treleven] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
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1956-1987?
Yes



"People do not have moments of truth in station waiting rooms"


Karb
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     Re: [BDA_85] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
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Within the M25?
Yes



"People do not have moments of truth in station waiting rooms"


Ronsdog
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     Re: [Karb] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
 
At Wembley?


Karb
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     Re: [Ronsdog] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
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At Wembley?
Yes



"People do not have moments of truth in station waiting rooms"


John Treleven
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     Re: [Karb] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
1956-71?


Karb
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     Re: [John Treleven] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
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1956-71?
No, 1972-1987



"People do not have moments of truth in station waiting rooms"


BDA_85
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     Re: [Karb] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
Involving a current League One team?


Karen Browne
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     Re: [Karb] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
e/o during a FA Cup Final



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Karb
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     Re: [BDA_85] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
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Involving a current League One team?
No



"People do not have moments of truth in station waiting rooms"


Ropemaker
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     Re: [Karen Browne] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
1972-79?



Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get you.


Karb
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     Re: [Karen Browne] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
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e/o during a FA Cup Final
It's related to an FA Cup Final (and specifically it's outcome), rather than an incident during the game itself.



"People do not have moments of truth in station waiting rooms"


Ropemaker
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     Re: [Karb] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
Happened after the match?



Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get you.


Karb
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     Re: [Ropemaker] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
In Reply To
Happened after the match?
Perhaps I should have gone with person and reason after all Smile

We're looking for a record/milestone/sequence type of event, that is related to the outcome of the match



"People do not have moments of truth in station waiting rooms"


John Treleven
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     Re: [Karb] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
Ropey's 1972-79? (post 25) seems to have been missed

If it was 1972-79 was it 1976-79?

If not 1972-79 was it 1980-83?


BDA_85
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     Re: [John Treleven] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
G: No Second Division clubs had reached the final since 1932 but three teams from this level featured in finals during this decade.


Ropemaker
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     Re: [BDA_85] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
G: Kevin Moran not getting his winner's medal immediately after the 1985 final after being the first player sent off at a Wembley final



Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get you.


Karb
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     Re: [John Treleven] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
In Reply To
Ropey's 1972-79? (post 25) seems to have been missed

If it was 1972-79 was it 1976-79?

If not 1972-79 was it 1980-83?
Sorry Ropey. You must have posted at the same time as I was replying to a previous question.

It was 72-79, but not 76-79.

So 72-75



"People do not have moments of truth in station waiting rooms"


Karb
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     Re: [BDA_85] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
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G: No Second Division clubs had reached the final since 1932 but three teams from this level featured in finals during this decade.
Shot goes wide. It's not that



"People do not have moments of truth in station waiting rooms"


Karb
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     Re: [Ropemaker] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
In Reply To
G: Kevin Moran not getting his winner's medal immediately after the 1985 final after being the first player sent off at a Wembley final
Had I answered your question last night, you'd have known it couldn't be 1985, so feel free to retake your shot.



"People do not have moments of truth in station waiting rooms"


John Treleven
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     Re: [Karb] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
1975 - Thousands of Hammer fans ran on to the pitch at the end of the game to celebrate but the F.A. were to make sure that this was the last time such antics would be seen at a Wembley final.


paulh66
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     Re: [Karb] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
 

It's related to an FA Cup Final (and specifically it's outcome), rather than an incident during the game itself.
The Sunderland-Leeds final?


Karb
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     Re: [John Treleven] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
In Reply To
1975 - Thousands of Hammer fans ran on to the pitch at the end of the game to celebrate but the F.A. were to make sure that this was the last time such antics would be seen at a Wembley final.
Shot goes over the bar



"People do not have moments of truth in station waiting rooms"


Karb
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     Re: [paulh66] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
In Reply To

It's related to an FA Cup Final (and specifically it's outcome), rather than an incident during the game itself.
The Sunderland-Leeds final?
Not the 73 final



"People do not have moments of truth in station waiting rooms"


Karen Browne
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     Re: [Karb] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
Liverpool supporters running onto the pitch and bowing down at Bill Shankly's feet.

Shankly said afterwards: "These are the people, who came on the field and bowed down, these are the people I'm pleased for, more than anybody else, more than myself"



Karen Browne
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Karb
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     Re: [Karen Browne] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
Bill Shankly is the person concerned, but that wasn't my reason for choosing him



"People do not have moments of truth in station waiting rooms"


Karen Browne
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     Re: [Karb] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
The Cup Final was Bill Shankly's final game as Liverpool manager although he did lead the side out three months later for the Charity Shield



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Karb
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     Re: [Karen Browne] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
In Reply To
The Cup Final was Bill Shankly's final game as Liverpool manager although he did lead the side out three months later for the Charity Shield
Shot goes wide.



"People do not have moments of truth in station waiting rooms"


BDA_85
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     Re: [Karb] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
G: His wife Nessie asking him to retire?


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     Re: [Karb] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
The iconic pose with the club scarf in front of the Liverpool supporters?


Ropemaker
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     Re: [John Treleven] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
Q: Connected to Shankly's retirement?

G: Shankly said he wouldn't have retired if Liverpool had lost the 1974 FA Cup final



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paulh66
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     Re: [Karb] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
G: Shanks' involvement at both the start and end of a 36 year period in which no team in stripes lost an FA Cup final - managing Liverpool to victory over Newcastle in 74 having also played for Preston v Huddersfield in 38.


Karb
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     Re: [BDA_85] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
In Reply To
G: His wife Nessie asking him to retire?
No, it's not that. Shot saved by the keeper



"People do not have moments of truth in station waiting rooms"


Karb
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     Re: [John Treleven] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
In Reply To
The iconic pose with the club scarf in front of the Liverpool supporters?
Not that either



"People do not have moments of truth in station waiting rooms"


Karb
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     Re: [Ropemaker] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
In Reply To
Q: Connected to Shankly's retirement?

G: Shankly said he wouldn't have retired if Liverpool had lost the 1974 FA Cup final
No connection to his retirement



"People do not have moments of truth in station waiting rooms"


Karb
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     Re: [paulh66] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
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G: Shanks' involvement at both the start and end of a 36 year period in which no team in stripes lost an FA Cup final - managing Liverpool to victory over Newcastle in 74 having also played for Preston v Huddersfield in 38.
There is a connection to that 38 final, but it's not that.



"People do not have moments of truth in station waiting rooms"


John Treleven
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     Re: [Karb] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
Is there a Huddersfield link?


Karb
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     Re: [John Treleven] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
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Is there a Huddersfield link?
No, no Huddersfield link



"People do not have moments of truth in station waiting rooms"


paulh66
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     Re: [Karb] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
I'm stumped with this one.
Is it related to Shanks' overall record at Wembley?


Karb
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     Re: [paulh66] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
In Reply To
I'm stumped with this one.
Is it related to Shanks' overall record at Wembley?
No. Only the 38 and 74 finals are relevant



"People do not have moments of truth in station waiting rooms"

(This post was edited by Karb on Sep 16, 2019, 9:29 PM)


BDA_85
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     Re: [Karb] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
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In Reply To
I'm stumped with this one.
Is it related to Shanks' overall record at Wembley?
No. Only the 38 and 74 finals are relevant
Is it related to something that didn't occur in both finals?


Karb
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     Re: [BDA_85] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
In Reply To
In Reply To
In Reply To
I'm stumped with this one.
Is it related to Shanks' overall record at Wembley?
No. Only the 38 and 74 finals are relevant
Is it related to something that didn't occur in both finals?
No.



"People do not have moments of truth in station waiting rooms"


Oxford Stone
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     Re: [Karb] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
I'll guess at it being the biggest gap between a person winning FA Cups, albeit one as a player and one as a manager.


Karb
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     Re: [Oxford Stone] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
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I'll guess at it being the biggest gap between a person winning FA Cups, albeit one as a player and one as a manager.
Keeper tips the shot round the post. I think that record is held by Billy Walker, as a player with Villa in 1920 and as a manager with Forest in 1959.

But I think you're thinking along the right lines



"People do not have moments of truth in station waiting rooms"


Karb
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     Re: [Karb] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
This one seems to be either so obscure that nobody is realising the relevance, or so straightforward that nobody can believe it's the answer.

As an extra clue, Oxford Stone is right to be thinking along the lines of a longest/shortest/oldest/youngest/first/last/fastest/slowest type of e/o.

You should have all of the information you need now, you just need to work out the significance.

A quick recap:

- We are looking for a record/milestone/sequence type of event involving Bill Shankly.
- The record/milestone/sequence relates to his involvement in the 1938 and 1974 FA Cup Finals. None of his other matches at Wembley (or indeed anywhere else) are particularly relevant
- There is no connection to Huddersfield Town
- It doesn't relate to his retirement (or being asked to retire), nor does it relate to him displaying a scarf
- It doesn't relate to the losing side wearing stripes (though I love that stat, thanks Paul!)
- It has nothing to do with the 74 Final being his last game in charge, nor to do with supporters bowing at his feet
- t's not the longest gap between Cup wins by an individual, but longest/shortest/oldest/youngest/first/last/fastest/slowest is the type of e/o that you should be thinking of

I think that's about it.



"People do not have moments of truth in station waiting rooms"


Ropemaker
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     Re: [Karb] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
Let's try a cryptic question

Could Billy Walker (post 58) have potentially set this same record/milestone/sequence at the 1959 Final?

Hypothetically that is. I wouldn't dream of asking for a trawl through records Smile



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John Treleven
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     Re: [Karb] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
Is it first/last or fastest/slowest?


BDA_85
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     Re: [John Treleven] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
Bill Shankly’s ‘Forgotten’ Barren Period 1966-1973
https://worldfootballindex.com/...on-period-liverpool/


Karb
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     Re: [Ropemaker] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
In Reply To
Let's try a cryptic question

Could Billy Walker (post 58) have potentially set this same record/milestone/sequence at the 1959 Final?

Hypothetically that is. I wouldn't dream of asking for a trawl through records Smile
Yes. Had I asked the question in the early 60s, it would have involved Walker rather than Shankly.



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Karb
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     Re: [John Treleven] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
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Is it first/last or fastest/slowest?
Yes. One of those.



"People do not have moments of truth in station waiting rooms"


Karb
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     Re: [BDA_85] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
In Reply To
Bill Shankly’s ‘Forgotten’ Barren Period 1966-1973
https://worldfootballindex.com/...on-period-liverpool/
Its not that.



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1973Swan
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     Re: [paulh66] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
If you had asked this question before the 1974 FA Cup Final would the answer have been Bob Stokoe?


Karb
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     Re: [1973Swan] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
In Reply To
If you had asked this question before the 1974 FA Cup Final would the answer have been Bob Stokoe?
As long as it was asked after 5/5/73, yes.



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John Treleven
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     Re: [Karb] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
Is it first/last?


1973Swan
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     Re: [John Treleven] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
I don't have a question I can use and I'm away for the weekend so trying to provide a tap in for some else but if my theory is right the person prior to Shankly and Stokoe would be Don Revie.

Bobby Gould could be on the list (after Shankly) but he was an unused sub when he got an FA Cup winners medal.

Then again, I could be completely on the wrong track and making a right arse of myself.


Ropemaker
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Sep 19, 2019, 11:46 AM

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     Re: [1973Swan] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
Would Shankly also have been the answer after the 1965 final?



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Karb
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Sep 19, 2019, 2:23 PM

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     Re: [John Treleven] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
Yes, a first or last



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(This post was edited by Karb on Sep 19, 2019, 2:23 PM)


Karb
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     Re: [1973Swan] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
In Reply To
I don't have a question I can use and I'm away for the weekend so trying to provide a tap in for some else but if my theory is right the person prior to Shankly and Stokoe would be Don Revie.

Bobby Gould could be on the list (after Shankly) but he was an unused sub when he got an FA Cup winners medal.

Then again, I could be completely on the wrong track and making a right arse of myself.
Yes, to Revie, yes to Gould not being on the list, and no you aren't making an arse of yourself.

Your theory is correct. All I need to know is why its Shankly (and not Gould or anyone else)



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Karb
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     Re: [Ropemaker] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
In Reply To
Would Shankly also have been the answer after the 1965 final?
Yes



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paulh66
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     Re: [Karb] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
If I ever get a spare 15 minutes today I'll hopefully figure it out! Til then, is the fact that Shanks won both finals an essential part of the answer?


Karb
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     Re: [paulh66] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
In Reply To
If I ever get a spare 15 minutes today I'll hopefully figure it out! Til then, is the fact that Shanks won both finals an essential part of the answer?
Yes.



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paulh66
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     Re: [Karb] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
Is it simply Shankly being the last man to win the FA Cup as both a player and manager?


Karb
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     Re: [paulh66] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
In Reply To
Is it simply Shankly being the last man to win the FA Cup as both a player and manager?
In the words of Roy Walker, "It's good, but it's not right"

That would be Roberto di Matteo, who won the cup as a player in 2000, and as a manager in 2012, both with Chelsea.

You're very close, but there's one thing that you haven't mentioned



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John Treleven
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     Re: [Karb] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
Shankly being the last man to win the F.A. Cup as both a player and manager with different clubs?


Karb
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     Re: [John Treleven] Twenty Questions #1121 or Reply Privately
In Reply To
Shankly being the last man to win the F.A. Cup as both a player and manager with different clubs?
*GOAL*

It's quite simply that.

Three consecutive finals of 1972, 73 and 74 all featured winning managers who had previously played in a winning team at a different club. This was something that was common throughout the 50s and 60s too, but has never happened since 1974. Any manager since 74 that has won as both a player and a manager (Dalglish, Venables, Graham, Vialli, Di Matteo) all did it with the same club.

As mentioned earlier in the thread, Bobby Gould came close to emulating Shankly's feat when he won as a manager with Wimbledon in 1988, but unfortunately he was a non playing sub for West Ham in 75



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