Home: Non-League Football Discussion: Restructuring Discussion:
Essex Senior League 2019/20



paulh66
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Jul 9, 2019, 11:50 PM

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Essex Senior League 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Might as well create this thread to shoehorn in this morning's news from the ESL's Twitter feed:

"Breaking News
@IlfordFC have been granted 7 days to source a venue that meets F grading by the League otherwise will not be playing in the NLS next season."

The club isn't happy about the tweet! No news either about the possible implications for Barkingside, who share Ilford's Cricklefield stadium.

Before this blew up, the constitution of the league for the coming season had been agreed as follows:

1 Clapton
2 Cockfosters
3 Enfield
4 Hadley
5 Hashtag United
6 Hoddesdon Town
7 Ilford
8 Redbridge
9 Saffron Walden Town
10 Sawbridgeworth Town
11 Southend Manor
12 Sporting Bengal United
13 St Margaretsbury
14 Stansted
15 Takeley
16 Tower Hamlets
17 Walthamstow
18 West Essex
19 Woodford Town 2017


windydcfc
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Jul 10, 2019, 6:17 AM

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Re: [paulh66] Essex Senior League 2019/20 or Reply Privately

The club secretary at Ilford mentions that the club will be at Cricklefield & no other clubs will be. Apart from Barkingside who else plays out of there & what happens to those clubs now?


Herb Alpert
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Jul 10, 2019, 7:48 AM

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Re: [windydcfc] Essex Senior League 2019/20 or Reply Privately

A tweet from the "ILFORDFCSEC" twitter account yesterday states that both Ilford & Barkingside will play at Cricklefields this coming season.


leohoenig
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Jul 10, 2019, 8:08 AM

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Re: [Herb Alpert] Essex Senior League 2019/20 or Reply Privately

The various messages seem to skirt around the problems without an explanation

Does anyone know the actual problem?



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Herb Alpert
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Jul 10, 2019, 8:18 AM

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Re: [leohoenig] Essex Senior League 2019/20 or Reply Privately

I have not seen any reason in the public domain for the ESL to suggest that Ilford had 7 days to find a compliant ground. Another quote from "ILFORDFCSEC" twitter with regard to the issue "If I was allowed to tell you, you wouldn’t believe it."


Deaf Leopard
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Jul 11, 2019, 7:46 AM

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Re: [Herb Alpert] Essex Senior League 2019/20 or Reply Privately

The issue is between the football club and the Sports Club who own the site. There have been disputes between both parties for years, even though the football club has seen regimes come and go. Barkingside are not affected.


Paul Cockerton
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Jul 16, 2019, 1:29 PM

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Re: [paulh66] Essex Senior League 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Might as well create this thread to shoehorn in this morning's news from the ESL's Twitter feed:

"Breaking News
@IlfordFC have been granted 7 days to source a venue that meets F grading by the League otherwise will not be playing in the NLS next season."

The club isn't happy about the tweet! No news either about the possible implications for Barkingside, who share Ilford's Cricklefield stadium.

Before this blew up, the constitution of the league for the coming season had been agreed as follows:

1 Clapton
2 Cockfosters
3 Enfield
4 Hadley
5 Hashtag United
6 Hoddesdon Town
7 Ilford
8 Redbridge
9 Saffron Walden Town
10 Sawbridgeworth Town
11 Southend Manor
12 Sporting Bengal United
13 St Margaretsbury
14 Stansted
15 Takeley
16 Tower Hamlets
17 Walthamstow
18 West Essex
19 Woodford Town 2017


Seven days on - any word of a resolution?



Hull City / Clapton fan.


southend statto
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Jul 16, 2019, 6:43 PM

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Re: [Paul Cockerton] Essex Senior League 2019/20 or Reply Privately

we may find out at 6pm tomorrow when the fixtures are released


paulh66
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Jul 17, 2019, 8:13 PM

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Re: [Paul Cockerton] Essex Senior League 2019/20 or Reply Privately

It's pretty poor that the league was happily tweeting publicly about the threat to Ilford's membership but still hasn't commented since the deadline lapsed a few days ago.

Also poor that, having announced the fixtures would be released at 6pm today, the league has again gone quiet. Apparently, according to East London Radio's Grassroots Football Show, the fixtures have been delayed until tomorrow "due to unforeseen circumstances"


Deaf Leopard
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Jul 17, 2019, 11:49 PM

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Re: [paulh66] Essex Senior League 2019/20 or Reply Privately

It is due to the issues uploading fixtures that other leagues have faced.


Forest Gump
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Jul 18, 2019, 8:15 AM

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Re: [Deaf Leopard] Essex Senior League 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Welcome to the ESL on Twitter! Don't forget it was on Twitter that they told Barkingside they wouldn't be relegated, and the year before couldn't make their mind up if it was 2, 3 or 4 that would go down.


New Forest
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Jul 18, 2019, 9:55 AM

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Re: [Forest Gump] Essex Senior League 2019/20 or Reply Privately

If the fixtures came out later today that would still be much earlier than last season! Perhaps the league should be re-titled 'The Agatha Christie League'.

Will Ilford get a new ground. Will Barkingside, who hare Ilford's ground, be back in to make the numbers up. And what happened to Edgware Town!


Forest Gump
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Re: [New Forest] Essex Senior League 2019/20 or Reply Privately

ESL fixtures are now out. I know we've got to play everyone twice at some point, but their scheduling seems as wacky as ever. Walthamstow play five of our first seven at home, and there's two times where we'll play four home games in a row. Six of our final eight games are away.

Ilford are included in the fixtures.


ladderman
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Jul 18, 2019, 1:38 PM

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Re: [Forest Gump] Essex Senior League 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Isn't much of that down to the large number of ground shares (plus Stansted being away throughout August)?

At least there isn't 2 ESL teams sharing with Harlow Town this year. I still can't understand why that was allowed to happen


paulh66
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Re: [ladderman] Essex Senior League 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To

At least there isn't 2 ESL teams sharing with Harlow Town this year. I still can't understand why that was allowed to happen


If fulltime is to be believed (..if) then West Essex and Leyton Athletic are both now sharing at Barking.


agamemnon3
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Jul 18, 2019, 4:05 PM

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Re: [Forest Gump] Essex Senior League 2019/20 or Reply Privately

'Wacky' is putting it mildly.

Cockfosters have five consecutive home games in November/December, yet only one home fixture between January and late April.


Karen Browne
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Jul 18, 2019, 4:28 PM

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Re: [agamemnon3] Essex Senior League 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
'Wacky' is putting it mildly.

Cockfosters have five consecutive home games in November/December, yet only one home fixture between January and late April.


The joys of being a Fixture Secretary



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Karen Browne
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Re: [agamemnon3] Essex Senior League 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
'Wacky' is putting it mildly.

Cockfosters have five consecutive home games in November/December, yet only one home fixture between January and late April.



Full Time now showing Cockfosters with many fixture changes



Karen Browne
Spartan South Midlands League
Fixtures Officer


agamemnon3
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Jul 18, 2019, 6:53 PM

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Re: [Karen Browne] Essex Senior League 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Wow ! First game of the season, (at home v Takeley), has suddenly become an away game.

It is clear that the pace of life in the high-powered Essex Senior League is far more than sleepy old Cockfosters are used to.

Can they keep up ? We shall see...


kirby knitters
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Re: [agamemnon3] Essex Senior League 2019/20 or Reply Privately

And now I fully understand the true meaning of a 'provisional' fixture list. Tongue


agamemnon3
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Jul 19, 2019, 2:09 AM

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Re: [kirby knitters] Essex Senior League 2019/20 or Reply Privately

I have the latest update from the 'Va-Va-Voom' Essex Senior League, and it would appear that seven Cockfosters' fixtures have been reversed, including that of the opening day.

And, er..., one fixture has simply disappeared altogether, thus leaving poor old Cockfosters with only a 35-game season, which seems a tad unfair.

I have no doubt that this will be rectified in the morning, as soon as the ESL boffins log on to their consoles.

I shall leave it to the ever-vigilant followers of Hoddesdon Town FC to point out which game it is that has gone adrift.


ladderman
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Jul 22, 2019, 10:54 PM

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Re: [agamemnon3] Essex Senior League 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Someone needs to tell their web person that Enfield have moved.


agamemnon3
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Jul 27, 2019, 11:58 PM

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Re: [ladderman] Essex Senior League 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Disturbing news today from an ESL official (yes, another one) that the dispute between Ilford FC and Cricklefield Stadium has not been resolved and that Ilford FC are now on the point of folding.

I find this hard to believe, as only a few days ago a (different) ESL official assured me that the problem was 'purely administrative'.

The next seventy-two hours should prove illuminating.


ladderman
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Jul 29, 2019, 3:25 PM

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Re: [agamemnon3] Essex Senior League 2019/20 or Reply Privately

From the ESL Twitter

The reason there has been no update is because we have been assured by the club that they can play at Cricklefields Stadium - therefore no requirement to take action.

Quote


agamemnon3
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Jul 29, 2019, 3:39 PM

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Re: [ladderman] Essex Senior League 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Let's hope they are right.

But there would appear to be at least one person at ESL HQ who is not quite so sure.


windydcfc
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Aug 5, 2019, 6:47 PM

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Re: [agamemnon3] Essex Senior League 2019/20 or Reply Privately

The ESL have just tweeted this:
The speculation concerning the Old Spotted Dog Stadium has been confirmed to the League. As a result Clapton FC have today been advised within seven days to advise the league of where they intend to play for up to 12 weeks to enable the owners to resolve the issues.


agamemnon3
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Aug 5, 2019, 8:35 PM

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Re: [windydcfc] Essex Senior League 2019/20 or Reply Privately

They have also put out an email stating that 'no activities whatsoever' will take place at the stadium until the 'issues' with Newham Community Leisure are resolved.

That's really going to annoy the local glue-sniffers.


(This post was edited by agamemnon3 on Aug 5, 2019, 8:37 PM)


ladderman
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Aug 6, 2019, 12:15 AM

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Re: [agamemnon3] Essex Senior League 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Let's hope they are right.

But there would appear to be at least one person at ESL HQ who is not quite so sure.

So I guess Ilford played, then.


agamemnon3
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Aug 6, 2019, 4:19 AM

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Re: [ladderman] Essex Senior League 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Yes, they did, as I hoped and believed they would.

And your point is ?


Brightside
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Aug 6, 2019, 1:48 PM

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Re: [ladderman] Essex Senior League 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Let's hope they are right.

But there would appear to be at least one person at ESL HQ who is not quite so sure.

So I guess Ilford played, then.


They did, they didn't have any beer on tap though Frown



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Geoff
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Aug 7, 2019, 9:34 AM

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Re: [windydcfc] Essex Senior League 2019/20 or Reply Privately

According to Vince McBean (Clapton’s Chief Exec) Clapton will be playing home games at Aveley for the time being.
He is confident that they will be back at the old Spotted Dog in the not too distant future.
Interesting times at Parkside with four clubs now sharing there.


ladderman
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Aug 7, 2019, 8:24 PM

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Re: [agamemnon3] Essex Senior League 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Yes, they did, as I hoped and believed they would.

And your point is ?

My point is that you kept telling us they were doomed. Maybe you got your East London clubs mixed, so we'll pretend it never happened


agamemnon3
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Aug 7, 2019, 11:15 PM

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Re: [ladderman] Essex Senior League 2019/20 or Reply Privately

On the contrary, I made it clear that the suggestion came from a league official, and made it equally clear that I didn't believe it.

I was merely highlighting the occasional unreliability of some information from some league officials, even relatively senior ones.

Obviously a lot for you to take in all at once.


Paul Cockerton
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Aug 8, 2019, 9:23 AM

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Re: [Geoff] Essex Senior League 2019/20 or Reply Privately

I've heard Tilbury and Redbridge mentioned too.



Hull City / Clapton fan.


ladderman
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Aug 8, 2019, 12:03 PM

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Re: [agamemnon3] Essex Senior League 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
On the contrary, I made it clear that the suggestion came from a league official, and made it equally clear that I didn't believe it.

I was merely highlighting the occasional unreliability of some information from some league officials, even relatively senior ones.

Obviously a lot for you to take in all at once.

You seem to spend a lot of time quoting an unnamed league official about things that turn out to be nonsense. You then tell us that you didn't believe those rumours.


AndyE
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Aug 8, 2019, 12:53 PM

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Re: [ladderman] Essex Senior League 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Coming back to the point if we may ...

Do we know just what the problem is that is preventing football being played at the Old Spotted Dog for the time being? Clapton will be playing at Aveley for the moment, and Hackney Wick will apparently be playing at Haringey Borough - although they have switched their FA Cup game tomorrow evening to Framlingham Town. (Tilbury FC have stated on Twitter "You could have played at ours if you'd asked", but presumably Hackney Wick didn't ask.)


windydcfc
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Aug 8, 2019, 12:59 PM

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Re: [AndyE] Essex Senior League 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Coming back to the point if we may ...


I wouldn’t count on itCrazy


ladderman
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Aug 8, 2019, 1:11 PM

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Re: [windydcfc] Essex Senior League 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Predictable that you'd jump to the support of someone who posts nonsense rumours and then crying because people comment.
It's like you have a second user name


agamemnon3
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Aug 9, 2019, 3:59 AM

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Re: [ladderman] Essex Senior League 2019/20 or Reply Privately

No support needed, thanks.

My original post, which, incidentally, I thought was quite light-hearted, clearly contains the phrase 'I find this hard to believe'. So you either do not read posts properly, or choose to wilfully misunderstand them in order to make snide remarks. I shall leave it to others to form an opinion as to which is the more likely.

The unnamed league official; I could name names, but I thought it was a matter of form on here that one did not name club or league officials. I would never do that in any case --- it would be a breach of good manners, a concept with which you appear to be painfully unfamiliar.

I will leave it here, as I am fully aware of, and completely understand, your desperate need to have the final word in any exchange. It is, after all, a fairly common trait among adolescents.

So off you go then, sir, the floor is yours. Entertain us all with your boorishness.


windydcfc
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Aug 9, 2019, 6:52 AM

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Re: [agamemnon3] Essex Senior League 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Post of the year, well said.


Geoff
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Aug 9, 2019, 1:28 PM

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Re: [AndyE] Essex Senior League 2019/20 or Reply Privately

The problem at the Old Spotted Dog is, according to Vince McBean (Clapton CEO), that Clapton have been prevented from paying the rent by the Charity Commissioners despite having the cash available in their bank account.
As a result the owners have, with some justification, refused to let them (or presumably Hackney Wick) use the stadium (I use the term “stadium” loosely)
I know Clapton FC is a registered charity so perhaps the Commission has the power to do this and has chosen to do so although I don't see why.
One suggestion I’ve heard is that the “powers that be” (not my choice of words) want to get Clapton Community FC playing at the OSD. This idea has obvious appeal to those who like a good conspiracy theory but I have no idea if it is true or even who the “powers that be” are.
I’ll just be happy to enjoy lots of Friday night games for now and hope that senior football returns to the iconic Old Spotted Dog in the very near future.


spen666
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Aug 9, 2019, 2:48 PM

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Re: [Geoff] Essex Senior League 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
The problem at the Old Spotted Dog is, according to Vince McBean (Clapton CEO), that Clapton have been prevented from paying the rent by the Charity Commissioners despite having the cash available in their bank account.
As a result the owners have, with some justification, refused to let them (or presumably Hackney Wick) use the stadium (I use the term “stadium” loosely)
I know Clapton FC is a registered charity so perhaps the Commission has the power to do this and has chosen to do so although I don't see why.
One suggestion I’ve heard is that the “powers that be” (not my choice of words) want to get Clapton Community FC playing at the OSD. This idea has obvious appeal to those who like a good conspiracy theory but I have no idea if it is true or even who the “powers that be” are.
I’ll just be happy to enjoy lots of Friday night games for now and hope that senior football returns to the iconic Old Spotted Dog in the very near future.


Quote


Geoff, I think Vince is not telling the truth if that is his position.


Clapton FC are an unincorporated association, not a charity. This is what it states on their website.

The ground however is owned by a Charity, the Newham Community Leisure Trust. If you look on the records at Companies House, a trustee of this charity is.....Vince McBean!

Then of course there is the ongoing litigation involving Mr McBean where he is seemingly seeking to wind up the charity!
https://beta.charitycommission.gov.uk/charity-details/?regid=1009672&subid=0

Said charity are also nearly a year late in filing statutory return.


All very murky and McBean comes across to me as a man not to be velieved


Geoff
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Aug 9, 2019, 5:19 PM

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Re: [spen666] Essex Senior League 2019/20 or Reply Privately

As you may have noted I made no comment on the veracity of what I was told, this was not accidental.


Shambles
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Aug 12, 2019, 8:33 AM

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Re: [Geoff] Essex Senior League 2019/20 or Reply Privately

Just seen this doing the rounds on Twitter:

To: Heineken UK

Keep Clapton Football Club at the Old Spotted Dog Ground

Please allow Clapton Football Club to continue to play football from the Old Spotted Dog Ground, E7 9NP.

Why is this important?
Clapton Football Club has been playing out of the Old Spotted Dog Ground, 212 Upton Lane, Forest Gate, London E7 9NP for more than 141 years.

As a result of a lack of response by the Charity Commission for the lease terms to be met, this has resulted in Heineken, as the freeholders, taking possession of the Old Spotted Dog.

As the club is not involved in these actions, we are asking Heineken to enable Clapton Football Club to honour its commitment to the football leagues and competitions in which it plays as well as to its community and supporters.

Please sign this petition requesting that Heineken grants Clapton Football Club a new lease allowing us to play matches at the Old Spotted Dog Ground at the same rent previously paid, until the legal matters have been sorted out.

We need the help of everyone to save this iconic football club that was the first to play in Europe and is now at risk of folding.

We also want to be able to celebrate Clapton’s 142 birthday this August at its home since 1878!


spen666
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Aug 12, 2019, 4:32 PM

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Re: [Shambles] Essex Senior League 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Just seen this doing the rounds on Twitter:

To: Heineken UK

Keep Clapton Football Club at the Old Spotted Dog Ground

Please allow Clapton Football Club to continue to play football from the Old Spotted Dog Ground, E7 9NP.

Why is this important?
Clapton Football Club has been playing out of the Old Spotted Dog Ground, 212 Upton Lane, Forest Gate, London E7 9NP for more than 141 years.

As a result of a lack of response by the Charity Commission for the lease terms to be met, this has resulted in Heineken, as the freeholders, taking possession of the Old Spotted Dog.

As the club is not involved in these actions, we are asking Heineken to enable Clapton Football Club to honour its commitment to the football leagues and competitions in which it plays as well as to its community and supporters.

Please sign this petition requesting that Heineken grants Clapton Football Club a new lease allowing us to play matches at the Old Spotted Dog Ground at the same rent previously paid, until the legal matters have been sorted out.

We need the help of everyone to save this iconic football club that was the first to play in Europe and is now at risk of folding.

We also want to be able to celebrate Clapton’s 142 birthday this August at its home since 1878!



Things start to make more sense now.

I was wrong to say the trust owned the ground. I think they own a long lease on the ground and sub let it to Clapton ( & Hackney Wick?)

McBean's comments about the charity account being frozen also make sense as obviously it would appear Heineken have not received the ground rent from the Trust (owing to the account being frozen due to the court action?)

Given McBean is trustee of Charity and owner of Clapton, it is perhaps not surprising in my view to find that Heineken wont deal direct with Clapton



https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/keep-clapton-football-club-at-the-old-spotted-dog

Looking at the petition, one of the reasons for signing is given as


Quote
This situation is also impacting on other users of the facilities within the grounds as this is the only venue in east london were the community and social clubs can use in comfort.As a result of this action we have no idea of whats happening and our club cannot function also.So this action not only against clapton football club but all community users


given the state of the place, I find it surprising that any community or social clubs are using it...unless it is the football clubs they are referring to

There certainly are other facilities in East London for social and community groups to meet


Paul Cockerton
Junior Team Regular


Aug 13, 2019, 10:02 AM

Posts: 34
Location: East London
Team(s): Hull City, Clapton


Views: 1326
Re: [windydcfc] Essex Senior League 2019/20 or Reply Privately

The ESL has confirmed that Clapton will be ground-sharing at Aveley's Parkside, along with Aveley, Grays and May & Baker.

The first ever four-way ground share in history?



Hull City / Clapton fan.


alderman friend
Youth Team Regular

Aug 13, 2019, 10:14 AM

Posts: 189
Location:
Team(s):


Views: 1310
Re: [Paul Cockerton] Essex Senior League 2019/20 or Reply Privately

so will there be staggered kick off times on a sat or will there be games on Friday and sunday


kirby knitters
Qatar World Cup bid member!

Aug 13, 2019, 11:08 AM

Posts: 17864
Location: Kirby Muxloe
Team(s): Hinckley United FC.


Views: 1275
Re: [alderman friend] Essex Senior League 2019/20 or Reply Privately

How bad is the ESL site? They seem to be unaware of the goings on and have the OSD listed for fixtures!


leohoenig
Administrator

Aug 13, 2019, 11:57 AM

Posts: 13471
Location: Outer Cheltenhamshire
Team(s): Cheltenham Town


Views: 1239
Re: [Paul Cockerton] Essex Senior League 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
The ESL has confirmed that Clapton will be ground-sharing at Aveley's Parkside, along with Aveley, Grays and May & Baker.

The first ever four-way ground share in English history?


I have been to places where this is not extraordinary



Fat AND Pompous.
The proof that you can have too much of a good thing
Now blogging at http://www.leohoenig.com



FCUtdWill
Reserve Team Sub

Aug 13, 2019, 12:12 PM

Posts: 408
Location: Huddersfield
Team(s): Huddersfield Town, Gibraltar


Views: 1214
Re: [Paul Cockerton] Essex Senior League 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
The ESL has confirmed that Clapton will be ground-sharing at Aveley's Parkside, along with Aveley, Grays and May & Baker.

The first ever four-way ground share in history?


Gibraltar’s 14 teams in its national league and 10 in its intermediate league all share the same (3G) pitch.



http://www.englishfootballdatabase.weebly.com


ladderman
Man City Transfer Target!

Aug 14, 2019, 2:11 PM

Posts: 7419
Location: Bishop's Stortford
Team(s): Bishop's Stortford & Cambridge United


Views: 857
Re: [alderman friend] Essex Senior League 2019/20 or Reply Privately


In Reply To
so will there be staggered kick off times on a sat or will there be games on Friday and sunday

May & Baker play the vast majority of their weekend home games on a Friday - a bizarre situation in itself - so I guess there will be weekends when Clapton will have to start early on a Saturday (are there two sets of dressing rooms at Aveley?) or play on a Sunday.