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Home: Non Football Related: General Chat:
General Election 2019

 



TroubleAtMill
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Oct 30, 2019, 6:43 AM

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General Election 2019 Can't Post or Reply Privately

I believe that because there may be 1 or 2 no Brexit moments in the next few weeks the General Election deserves its own thread.

Please play nice,so the moderators don't have to delete it.

My expectation at the end of it is a smallish but workable majority for the Boris Party and that Labour will suffer more than the others.

My major problem at this General Election is who to vote for, as none of the parties currently appeal to me.


jon b
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Oct 30, 2019, 9:57 AM

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Post #2 of 596 (5669 views)
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Re: [TroubleAtMill] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Given the reluctance of many Labour MPs to back the calling of the Election I think we know which party most fears the outcome.

Anyway, for what it's worth, Electoral Calculus are, on present polling, predicting a 58 seat overall majority for the Tories.

https://www.theguardian.com/...8-seat-tory-majority

We are, of course, only at the very start of the campaign and there are loads of unknowns. For instance, although Labour and the Lib Dems will split the Remain vote by standing everywhere against each other (outside Northern Ireland) we don't yet know whether the Brexit Party will also contest every seat and split the Brexit vote.

.


Towlawtom
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Oct 30, 2019, 10:43 AM

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Re: [jon b] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Traditional Labour leave voters need to wake up !
Do they love Brexit more then the NHS and protecting their working and social rights which Boris will slash,


Simple choice for them to make!



I need to have the last word, as it always looks as if I am right !


windydcfc
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Oct 30, 2019, 10:46 AM

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Re: [jon b] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Some remain area Tory MP’s aren’t too happy with a General Election.
It’d be interesting to see who would take over the leadership of the Tory Party if Boris loses his seat & this is a possibility.



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


leohoenig
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Oct 30, 2019, 11:05 AM

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Re: [Towlawtom] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Traditional Labour leave voters need to wake up !
Do they love Brexit more then the NHS and protecting their working and social rights which Boris will slash,


Simple choice for them to make!


Not true - Labour have to run on a second referendum slate, where the new poll is between a deal and remain. No deal is off the table for the moment.

This means that Labour leave voters do not have to change parties - unless they are scared that the country has changed and there is now a remain majority



Fat AND Pompous.
The proof that you can have too much of a good thing
Now blogging at http://www.leohoenig.com



Towlawtom
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Oct 30, 2019, 12:04 PM

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Post #6 of 596 (5593 views)
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Re: [leohoenig] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Traditional Labour leave voters need to wake up !
Do they love Brexit more then the NHS and protecting their working and social rights which Boris will slash,


Simple choice for them to make!


Not true - Labour have to run on a second referendum slate, where the new poll is between a deal and remain. No deal is off the table for the moment.

This means that Labour leave voters do not have to change parties - unless they are scared that the country has changed and there is now a remain majority


I disagree, Labour is split between Leave or remain.
Those Labour brexit supporters in Yvette Coopers constituency, some of them will switch to The CONS, some may vote for the Brexit party as a protest.
Either way they are likely to vote in a CONS MP



I need to have the last word, as it always looks as if I am right !

(This post was edited by Towlawtom on Oct 30, 2019, 12:21 PM)


007Dale
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Oct 30, 2019, 12:04 PM

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Post #7 of 596 (5591 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Some remain area Tory MP’s aren’t too happy with a General Election.
It’d be interesting to see who would take over the leadership of the Tory Party if Boris loses his seat & this is a possibility.


If Farage really wants Brexit to happen, then he should instruct his candidates to stand aside in Tory winnable areas. His party can be used to mop-up votes in labour heartlands where they’d never vote Tory.

The Boris ‘deal’ merely delays no-deal for a couple of years. If we don’t get a very good deal from the EU, we could well end up on no-deal. If that’s Farage wish, he should play the long-game.

I suspect however, his ego will take over and he’ll try for every seat.

Suspect (& hope) the Tories will win a majority, but the size of that majority may well depend on how split the leave vote is.


Tykeoldboy
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Oct 30, 2019, 12:59 PM

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Post #8 of 596 (5558 views)
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Re: [Towlawtom] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Traditional Labour leave voters need to wake up !
Do they love Brexit more then the NHS and protecting their working and social rights which Boris will slash,


Simple choice for them to make!


I think the Tory's will focus mainly on Brexit during their campaign and hope the public don't pay any attention to their other plans.



The feeling of utter devastation when you pick up your mug and realise you already finished your tea.


Isaac
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Oct 30, 2019, 1:45 PM

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Post #9 of 596 (5526 views)
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Re: [Towlawtom] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Traditional Labour leave voters need to wake up !
Do they love Brexit more then the NHS and protecting their working and social rights which Boris will slash,


Simple choice for them to make!


And you really think Labour will look after the NHS?


Towlawtom
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Oct 30, 2019, 2:50 PM

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Post #10 of 596 (5485 views)
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Re: [Isaac] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Traditional Labour leave voters need to wake up !
Do they love Brexit more then the NHS and protecting their working and social rights which Boris will slash,


Simple choice for them to make!


And you really think Labour will look after the NHS?[/reply

Stupid question, any party will take care of the NHS better than the CONS.
Lets face it, The NHS goes against the basic CONServative supporters Principles



I need to have the last word, as it always looks as if I am right !


PaulC
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Oct 30, 2019, 3:35 PM

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Post #11 of 596 (5463 views)
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Re: [Towlawtom] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

 

In virtually every aspect of the economy Labour governments outperform Tory ones.

It's just a pity so many are duped by the lies of the Tory media and are let down by the laziness of the rest of the media to check facts.


Ronsdog
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Oct 30, 2019, 8:15 PM

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Re: [jon b] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

 
So another election, our third in five years. The U.K. is becoming like Italy in the 70s/80s.
Hopefully this will be the last for another five years.

We’re almost in recession as is most of Europe. The £ hits a six month high of 1.16 Euro. Germany is the new sick man of Europe as its manufacturing industry hits a brick wall.
Remainers blame Leavers. Leavers blame the EU. The EU blames Donald Trump. Trump blames China. It’s a Mexican stand-off of finger pointing.......
 
So, thankfully on December 13th we will have a new Goverment to steer us though the mess that currently exists.

If Johnson has figured it correctly he will find himself back at No 10 with a majority and a clear mandate.
With interest rates still at record lows, he begins a massive programme of spending to “cushion the blow”. It’s sold as a kind of dividend for leaving. A boost to the economy.
 
New bridges, roads and public works spring up all over the country. A new railway here. A new power station there. And all of it paid for out of the public purse.
 Which is jargon for “paid for with borrowing”.
 
In the blink of an eye, Britain’s debt-to-GDP ratio quickly climbs over 100%. Then 125%. Then 150%. At this rate, it will reach 200% – a level seen only in Japan – or in countries in a war or in the middle of economic crisis/collapse.
 It’s not immediately clear to regular people which path Britain is walking.
 
Let’s freeze the frame there. Pause that version of reality for a second. Let’s hop on to another strand…
 Bang. Jeremy Corbyn finds himself in 10 Downing Street. He sends John McDonnell to the Treasury at 4am to impose capital controls and stop a run on the pound. (This is actually part of Labour’s contingency plan, I’ve heard'
 
The pound stabilises 40% below where it sits today. Inflation rears its ugly head. Memoirs of the 1970s suddenly become in vogue. Publishers fight over the right to call their next title “Them Were Rotten Days”. 
 
But Corbyn fights back. He blames international speculators and shadowy investment banks for the drop in the pound and promises to soften the blow. Out comes the chequebook. Massive programs of public works begin. HS2 is followed by HS3, HS4 and then HS Infinity. It’s the new QE!
 
Britain becomes the first major country to create a universal basic income for its citizens. It embarks on a major campaign of spending to “stimulate” the economy that’s been gutted, Labour claim, by the Tories/austerity/Brexit.
 
Stop the world for a second. Let’s jump to another strand of reality. Another variant on Britain’s future.
 In this version, things get really strange…
 
We get a “unity” government. A rainbow coalition, led by the Greens and the Liberal Democrats. Caroline Lucas asks for a cabinet staffed exclusively by women from SW1 born under the Leo star sign. She’s turned down and asked to look up “diversity” and “discrimination” in the dictionary. She resigns from public life shortly afterwards.
 
The unity government, coming to power after a period of extreme political volatility, decides to soften the blow. Loosen the purse strings.
 It launches a massive campaign of public works, designed to fight climate change, “modernise” the economy and revolutionise the energy network.
 
Huge investments in solar, wind, hydrogen and battery power follow. New subsidies for green companies, green energy tariffs, green transport and green anything come hot on their heels.
 Speaking of green, the government liberalises drug laws to allow the sale of cannabis, following the US, Canada and Australia.
 
Debt spikes. Spending goes through the roof. But Britain feels good about itself again. So long as you don’t look at the cost of the stimulus, everything seems just fine
 
Those are – as I see it – the three most likely paths Britain will walk in the next two years. They all have different political flavours. And depending on where your political allegiances lie, they’ll make you feel various shades of happy/sad/angry/excited.
 
I’m going to make a prediction off the back of that. By the end of 2020, the UK’s deficit will have doubled. And the gold price will be beyond £2,000 per ounce – and heading higher......
 


Yatesman
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Oct 30, 2019, 9:40 PM

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Post #13 of 596 (5296 views)
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Re: [Towlawtom] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Traditional Labour leave voters need to wake up !
Do they love Brexit more then the NHS and protecting their working and social rights which Boris will slash,


Simple choice for them to make!


And you really think Labour will look after the NHS?[/reply

Stupid question, any party will take care of the NHS better than the CONS.
Lets face it, The NHS goes against the basic CONServative supporters Principles


How so?

Currently there is record investment in the NHS.

Yes it's poorly managed and yes it's a cumbersome , unwieldy beast but I do not believe the Conservatives would do it any harm.
Why do you claim they will.?


Yatesman
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Oct 30, 2019, 9:46 PM

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Post #14 of 596 (5291 views)
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Re: [PaulC] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In virtually every aspect of the economy Labour governments outperform Tory ones.

It's just a pity so many are duped by the lies of the Tory media and are let down by the laziness of the rest of the media to check facts.


No basis in fact.

The last Labour Gov't broke the economy leading to years of austerity as the Tories got the economy back on track.

No way will I vote Labour again.


PaulC
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Oct 30, 2019, 10:31 PM

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Post #15 of 596 (5281 views)
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Re: [Yatesman] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In virtually every aspect of the economy Labour governments outperform Tory ones.

It's just a pity so many are duped by the lies of the Tory media and are let down by the laziness of the rest of the media to check facts.


No basis in fact.

The last Labour Gov't broke the economy leading to years of austerity as the Tories got the economy back on track.

No way will I vote Labour again.


Thoroughly based on fact.

What should we start with? Debt?


https://www.taxresearch.org.uk/...e-uks-national-debt/


TroubleAtMill
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Oct 31, 2019, 6:55 AM

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Post #16 of 596 (5208 views)
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Re: [007Dale] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Some remain area Tory MP’s aren’t too happy with a General Election.
It’d be interesting to see who would take over the leadership of the Tory Party if Boris loses his seat & this is a possibility.


If Farage really wants Brexit to happen, then he should instruct his candidates to stand aside in Tory winnable areas. His party can be used to mop-up votes in labour heartlands where they’d never vote Tory.

The Boris ‘deal’ merely delays no-deal for a couple of years. If we don’t get a very good deal from the EU, we could well end up on no-deal. If that’s Farage wish, he should play the long-game.

I suspect however, his ego will take over and he’ll try for every seat.

Suspect (& hope) the Tories will win a majority, but the size of that majority may well depend on how split the leave vote is.


Rumours flying that the Brexit Party will stand aside in some seats pro-Brexit MP seats, announcement supposedly in Friday, but who knows if there is any truth to it.


Isaac
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Oct 31, 2019, 6:55 AM

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Post #17 of 596 (5208 views)
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Re: [Towlawtom] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Traditional Labour leave voters need to wake up !
Do they love Brexit more then the NHS and protecting their working and social rights which Boris will slash,


Simple choice for them to make!


And you really think Labour will look after the NHS?[/reply

Stupid question, any party will take care of the NHS better than the CONS.
Lets face it, The NHS goes against the basic CONServative supporters Principles


Labour try and make a big deal about the NHS at every election but voters aren't fooled.


Yatesman
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Oct 31, 2019, 6:58 AM

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Post #18 of 596 (5206 views)
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Re: [PaulC] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In virtually every aspect of the economy Labour governments outperform Tory ones.

It's just a pity so many are duped by the lies of the Tory media and are let down by the laziness of the rest of the media to check facts.


No basis in fact.

The last Labour Gov't broke the economy leading to years of austerity as the Tories got the economy back on track.

No way will I vote Labour again.


Thoroughly based on fact.

What should we start with? Debt?


https://www.taxresearch.org.uk/...e-uks-national-debt/[/reply

Politically biased research searching for specific outcomes isn't helpful.

So you are saying Govt's shouldn't borrow.

Good luck with that

I always thought it's not what Governments borrow but how they spend it that was relevant!


PaulC
Man City Transfer Target!


Oct 31, 2019, 8:04 AM

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Post #19 of 596 (5181 views)
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Re: [Yatesman] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

What should we start with? Debt?


https://www.taxresearch.org.uk/...e-uks-national-debt/[/reply

Politically biased research searching for specific outcomes isn't helpful.

So you are saying Govt's shouldn't borrow.

Good luck with that

I always thought it's not what Governments borrow but how they spend it that was relevant!


LOL!

Why is it politically biased? Because it's findings don't match the lies you are told by the Tories and their press? Spoken like a true Brexiteer.

The Tories run up the debts. Labour repays.

Shall we go on to employment?




PaulC
Man City Transfer Target!


Oct 31, 2019, 11:53 AM

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Re: [PaulC] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Nicholas Soames on Rees-Mogg

"An absolute fraud who is a living example of what a moderately cut double-breasted suit and a decent tie can do with an ultra-posh voice and a bit of ginger stuck up his arse”


Isaac
Man City Transfer Target!

Oct 31, 2019, 12:14 PM

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Post #21 of 596 (5088 views)
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Re: [PaulC] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Nicholas Soames on Rees-Mogg

"An absolute fraud who is a living example of what a moderately cut double-breasted suit and a decent tie can do with an ultra-posh voice and a bit of ginger stuck up his arse”



An absolute fraud? Bit rich coming from Soames..... says more about him than it does about the Moggster.


007Dale
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Oct 31, 2019, 12:17 PM

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Post #22 of 596 (5085 views)
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Re: [Isaac] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Electoral calculus has the Tories with a 76 seat majority.


PaulC
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Oct 31, 2019, 12:43 PM

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Post #23 of 596 (5048 views)
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Re: [007Dale] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Electoral calculus has the Tories with a 76 seat majority.


On 7 June 2017, the day before the 2017 GE, Electoral Calculus had a Tory lead of 72 seats.


colpic
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Oct 31, 2019, 4:43 PM

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Post #24 of 596 (4945 views)
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Re: [Isaac] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Traditional Labour leave voters need to wake up !
Do they love Brexit more then the NHS and protecting their working and social rights which Boris will slash,


Simple choice for them to make!


And you really think Labour will look after the NHS?[/reply

Stupid question, any party will take care of the NHS better than the CONS.
Lets face it, The NHS goes against the basic CONServative supporters Principles


Labour try and make a big deal about the NHS at every election but voters aren't fooled.


Voters aren't fooled? Definitely the funniest thing I've read today.



Where's the 'ignore this poster' button?


Isaac
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Oct 31, 2019, 5:23 PM

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Post #25 of 596 (4922 views)
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Re: [colpic] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Traditional Labour leave voters need to wake up !
Do they love Brexit more then the NHS and protecting their working and social rights which Boris will slash,


Simple choice for them to make!


And you really think Labour will look after the NHS?[/reply

Stupid question, any party will take care of the NHS better than the CONS.
Lets face it, The NHS goes against the basic CONServative supporters Principles


Labour try and make a big deal about the NHS at every election but voters aren't fooled.


Voters aren't fooled? Definitely the funniest thing I've read today.


Really? So when did Labour last win an election?


PaulC
Man City Transfer Target!


Oct 31, 2019, 6:50 PM

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Post #26 of 596 (1941 views)
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Re: [Isaac] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Traditional Labour leave voters need to wake up !
Do they love Brexit more then the NHS and protecting their working and social rights which Boris will slash,


Simple choice for them to make!


And you really think Labour will look after the NHS?[/reply

Stupid question, any party will take care of the NHS better than the CONS.
Lets face it, The NHS goes against the basic CONServative supporters Principles


Labour try and make a big deal about the NHS at every election but voters aren't fooled.


Voters aren't fooled? Definitely the funniest thing I've read today.


Really? So when did Labour last win an election?


I suspect he was thinking of Brexit.


007Dale
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Oct 31, 2019, 6:51 PM

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Re: [Isaac] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

For the sake of the country, we need a Tory majority. Hopefully enough to persuade labour to put a credible leader in place, but not the Blair-size proportions where they have unlimited power.

We need a strong opposition, to get this we need labour to be beaten. Five years of a 25-seat Tory majority and very strong Labour leader would be a much better position to be in.


jon b
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Oct 31, 2019, 8:09 PM

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Re: [007Dale] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I honestly don't know what would be the best outcome.

I don't trust anything Johnson says about the NHS, or anything else for that matter. I don't trust Corbyn, and his politburo are scary. If the SNP do well they'll demand another independence Referendum. The Lib Dems will probably gain a number of seats but who would/should they ally themselves with post GE? And we've managed to poke a stick into Ulster enough to annoy all parties there and reignite the reunification issue.

I suppose I'll just have to take a look at the candidates at the hustings in NE Derbyshire and see if I rate any of them highly enough to put an X bedside their name. Unimpressed

.


Yatesman
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Oct 31, 2019, 8:11 PM

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Post #29 of 596 (1872 views)
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Re: [007Dale] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
For the sake of the country, we need a Tory majority. Hopefully enough to persuade labour to put a credible leader in place, but not the Blair-size proportions where they have unlimited power.

We need a strong opposition, to get this we need labour to be beaten. Five years of a 25-seat Tory majority and very strong Labour leader would be a much better position to be in.


We need a Labour leader who is concerned with the trials and tribulations of the British working/lower middle class.

Corbyn just wants to gladhand terrorists and EU nationals.

British voters are held in contempt by Labour.

Pity as I havn't decided who to vote for yet but a Corbyn led Labour party, big on soundbites-low on substance, is way down the list of possibilities at present.


steve walker
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Oct 31, 2019, 9:53 PM

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Post #30 of 596 (1806 views)
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Re: [Yatesman] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
For the sake of the country, we need a Tory majority. Hopefully enough to persuade labour to put a credible leader in place, but not the Blair-size proportions where they have unlimited power.

We need a strong opposition, to get this we need labour to be beaten. Five years of a 25-seat Tory majority and very strong Labour leader would be a much better position to be in.


We need a Labour leader who is concerned with the trials and tribulations of the British working/lower middle class.

Corbyn just wants to gladhand terrorists and EU nationals.

British voters are held in contempt by Labour.

Pity as I havn't decided who to vote for yet but a Corbyn led Labour party, big on soundbites-low on substance, is way down the list of possibilities at present.



Yes being a Scot and reading your posts you clearly have decided who you will vote for.

You dismiss Labour but haven't seen their Manifesto yet but you hate it because of what you read in the Daily Mail. You will say you don't but you constantly quote their soundbites. When the Labour Manifesto is published come back and tell us why you disagree with a particular policy rather than the old chestnut terrorist stuff

Personally I am undecided, I will look at the Manifestos of all the parties including Green or Independents on local issues. I am not as tribal as most that contribute to this thread. I am in a Tory seat but will look at the Manifestos and the local issues before deciding. Brexit is kinda third on the list.


Yatesman
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Oct 31, 2019, 10:14 PM

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In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
For the sake of the country, we need a Tory majority. Hopefully enough to persuade labour to put a credible leader in place, but not the Blair-size proportions where they have unlimited power.

We need a strong opposition, to get this we need labour to be beaten. Five years of a 25-seat Tory majority and very strong Labour leader would be a much better position to be in.


We need a Labour leader who is concerned with the trials and tribulations of the British working/lower middle class.

Corbyn just wants to gladhand terrorists and EU nationals.

British voters are held in contempt by Labour.

Pity as I havn't decided who to vote for yet but a Corbyn led Labour party, big on soundbites-low on substance, is way down the list of possibilities at present.



Yes being a Scot and reading your posts you clearly have decided who you will vote for.

You dismiss Labour but haven't seen their Manifesto yet but you hate it because of what you read in the Daily Mail. You will say you don't but you constantly quote their soundbites. When the Labour Manifesto is published come back and tell us why you disagree with a particular policy rather than the old chestnut terrorist stuff

Personally I am undecided, I will look at the Manifestos of all the parties including Green or Independents on local issues. I am not as tribal as most that contribute to this thread. I am in a Tory seat but will look at the Manifestos and the local issues before deciding. Brexit is kinda third on the list.


You might read the DM. I never do.

Personally, I do not believe anyone changes their view or forms new opinions based on the newspaper they buy.

I believe that people gravitate to the newspaper that best represents their already formed opinions.

It's only election losers that want to lay blame for all the world's ills at newspapers they don't like.

Btw, are you saying Corbyn doesn't like to gladhand terrorists?

Also, I dismiss Labour based on their flip flopping and lack of clarity over Brexit and any party that includes Dianne Abbacus, John McWeasel and Emily Snootyberry is probably going to struggle to win my trust.


(This post was edited by Yatesman on Oct 31, 2019, 10:20 PM)


PaulC
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Oct 31, 2019, 10:43 PM

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Post #32 of 596 (1770 views)
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Re: [Yatesman] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
For the sake of the country, we need a Tory majority. Hopefully enough to persuade labour to put a credible leader in place, but not the Blair-size proportions where they have unlimited power.

We need a strong opposition, to get this we need labour to be beaten. Five years of a 25-seat Tory majority and very strong Labour leader would be a much better position to be in.


We need a Labour leader who is concerned with the trials and tribulations of the British working/lower middle class.

Corbyn just wants to gladhand terrorists and EU nationals.

British voters are held in contempt by Labour.

Pity as I havn't decided who to vote for yet but a Corbyn led Labour party, big on soundbites-low on substance, is way down the list of possibilities at present.


Speaking of soundbites, Johnson’s “Britain deserves better” is a cracker.

9 years of shambolic Tory government under leader after leader after leader. A current leader who is a serial liar and an incompetent chump and totally untrustworthy. A government willing to sell our NHS down the river and keen to erode the rights of working people.

Britain certainly does deserve better.


(This post was edited by PaulC on Oct 31, 2019, 10:45 PM)


Ronsdog
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Nov 1, 2019, 1:06 AM

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The Lib Dems will probably gain a number of seats but who would/should they ally themselves with post GE? . Unimpressed
.


I answered that question for you in Post#12 Wink


jon b
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Nov 1, 2019, 3:24 AM

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Ah yes, the Swinson/Lucas dream team Cool and a green journey deeper into the twilight zone.

.


Yatesman
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Nov 1, 2019, 6:45 AM

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Re: [PaulC] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
For the sake of the country, we need a Tory majority. Hopefully enough to persuade labour to put a credible leader in place, but not the Blair-size proportions where they have unlimited power.

We need a strong opposition, to get this we need labour to be beaten. Five years of a 25-seat Tory majority and very strong Labour leader would be a much better position to be in.


We need a Labour leader who is concerned with the trials and tribulations of the British working/lower middle class.

Corbyn just wants to gladhand terrorists and EU nationals.

British voters are held in contempt by Labour.

Pity as I havn't decided who to vote for yet but a Corbyn led Labour party, big on soundbites-low on substance, is way down the list of possibilities at present.


Speaking of soundbites, Johnson’s “Britain deserves better” is a cracker.

9 years of shambolic Tory government under leader after leader after leader. A current leader who is a serial liar and an incompetent chump and totally untrustworthy. A government willing to sell our NHS down the river and keen to erode the rights of working people.

Britain certainly does deserve better.



Boris was referring to the opposition,

Britain Deserves Better Opposition, LOL!


Isaac
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Nov 1, 2019, 7:56 AM

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A current leader who is a serial liar and an incompetent chump and totally untrustworthy..



I thought for a moment you were referring to the Labour Party.


Towlawtom
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Nov 1, 2019, 10:20 AM

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In Reply To
A current leader who is a serial liar and an incompetent chump and totally untrustworthy..



I thought for a moment you were referring to the Labour Party.


No your beloved serial liar Boris!

Why isn't he dead in that ditch?

He promised you that you would leave yesterday!

Do or die he said!

He didn't say we would leave only if the opposition parties bent over backwards for him did he now?



I need to have the last word, as it always looks as if I am right !


Yatesman
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Nov 1, 2019, 10:50 AM

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In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
A current leader who is a serial liar and an incompetent chump and totally untrustworthy..



I thought for a moment you were referring to the Labour Party.


No your beloved serial liar Boris!

Why isn't he dead in that ditch?

He promised you that you would leave yesterday!

Do or die he said!

He didn't say we would leave only if the opposition parties bent over backwards for him did he now?


There won't be anyone other than the liberal hate mob that wont forgive Boris for us still being EU members.

People will not forgive the opposition for keeping us in against the will of the majority and gifting the EU £billions in fees.

Once again we will go to the polls and once again we will reject liberal extremism, hatred and liberal contempt for the working class.


dottirofhod
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Nov 1, 2019, 10:55 AM

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Post #39 of 596 (1602 views)
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Re: [Towlawtom] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The Prime Minister formally known as Boris Johnson has changed his name to Diana Ditch. Ms Ditch issued a statement; “Some people seem to have got the wrong end of the stick. They thought I said ‘I would rather die in a ditch than fail to deliver Brexit. But it was always my intention to embrace my feminine side and a delay to Brexit gives me some time to complete the paperwork and have the surgery that gives me what I’ve always craved; a set of boobs I can carry with me always.’
The PM said the legal process of changing his name and gender would definitely be completed by October 31st. ‘I’d give my right arm for that’ he said, as surgeons began measuring his right arm.



July 1, 2019 to June 30,2020 = 127 / 107 / 20 / 5 x 0-0's. (You know my rules) @ 07 / 12 / 2019 . Belgium top 5 tiers 0-0-0-(0-1-0)-(0-1-1-2) / Holland top 4 tiers - 0-0-0-(0-0) / Lux top 2 tiers 0 -2. England top 10 tiers - 0. Now blogging at https://eccentricity.video.blog/



Isaac
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Nov 1, 2019, 2:05 PM

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Post #40 of 596 (1534 views)
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Re: [Towlawtom] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
A current leader who is a serial liar and an incompetent chump and totally untrustworthy..



I thought for a moment you were referring to the Labour Party.


No your beloved serial liar Boris!

Why isn't he dead in that ditch?

He promised you that you would leave yesterday!

Do or die he said!

He didn't say we would leave only if the opposition parties bent over backwards for him did he now?


The man trying to deliver democracy is a liar but not those trying to block it?

Head in the sand or what?


windydcfc
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Nov 1, 2019, 3:22 PM

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Post #41 of 596 (1504 views)
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In Reply To
For the sake of the country, we need a Tory majority. Hopefully enough to persuade labour to put a credible leader in place, but not the Blair-size proportions where they have unlimited power.

We need a strong opposition, to get this we need labour to be beaten. Five years of a 25-seat Tory majority and very strong Labour leader would be a much better position to be in.



I think David Miliband would be a great leader. I think momentum will push for Rebecca Long Bailey or Angela Rayner to take over & will probably get their way. Hopefully Farage’s Brexit party, will actually fight this election & we’ll end up with another hung parliament. Then change the voting age, EU Nationals the vote & change the voting system. Chuck another referendum in after 6 months. Unfortunately I think the Tories will win & we’ll have a disastrous brexit, followed by a recession that will put the country back years



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


Yatesman
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Nov 1, 2019, 6:35 PM

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The Prime Minister formally known as Boris Johnson has changed his name to Diana Ditch. Ms Ditch issued a statement; “Some people seem to have got the wrong end of the stick. They thought I said ‘I would rather die in a ditch than fail to deliver Brexit. But it was always my intention to embrace my feminine side and a delay to Brexit gives me some time to complete the paperwork and have the surgery that gives me what I’ve always craved; a set of boobs I can carry with me always.’
The PM said the legal process of changing his name and gender would definitely be completed by October 31st. ‘I’d give my right arm for that’ he said, as surgeons began measuring his right arm.


Oh dear.............more of that smarmy , sarky fantasy nonsense that passes for humour in lefty circles.


Yatesman
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Nov 1, 2019, 6:44 PM

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Post #43 of 596 (1434 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
For the sake of the country, we need a Tory majority. Hopefully enough to persuade labour to put a credible leader in place, but not the Blair-size proportions where they have unlimited power.

We need a strong opposition, to get this we need labour to be beaten. Five years of a 25-seat Tory majority and very strong Labour leader would be a much better position to be in.



I think David Miliband would be a great leader. I think momentum will push for Rebecca Long Bailey or Angela Rayner to take over & will probably get their way. Hopefully Farage’s Brexit party, will actually fight this election & we’ll end up with another hung parliament. Then change the voting age, EU Nationals the vote & change the voting system. Chuck another referendum in after 6 months. Unfortunately I think the Tories will win & we’ll have a disastrous brexit, followed by a recession that will put the country back years


After Labour last ruled the country...............

https://inews.co.uk/...ls-david-laws-534179


(This post was edited by Yatesman on Nov 1, 2019, 6:45 PM)


windydcfc
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Nov 1, 2019, 6:51 PM

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Post #44 of 596 (1428 views)
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Re: [Yatesman] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
For the sake of the country, we need a Tory majority. Hopefully enough to persuade labour to put a credible leader in place, but not the Blair-size proportions where they have unlimited power.

We need a strong opposition, to get this we need labour to be beaten. Five years of a 25-seat Tory majority and very strong Labour leader would be a much better position to be in.



I think David Miliband would be a great leader. I think momentum will push for Rebecca Long Bailey or Angela Rayner to take over & will probably get their way. Hopefully Farage’s Brexit party, will actually fight this election & we’ll end up with another hung parliament. Then change the voting age, EU Nationals the vote & change the voting system. Chuck another referendum in after 6 months. Unfortunately I think the Tories will win & we’ll have a disastrous brexit, followed by a recession that will put the country back years


After Labour last ruled the country...............

https://inews.co.uk/...ls-david-laws-534179



It was a joke. You know that, I know that & everyone that ever read this boring story knows that. The world economic crash, was why the economy went south. But the Tory press has blamed Brown/Blair enough times that simpletons believe it.
Unlike the fact that the Tories plan to sell off the NHS &?expect us to believe it isn’t true because they say it isn’t & the Right Wing press will back them up.



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


Yatesman
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Nov 1, 2019, 8:32 PM

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Post #45 of 596 (1386 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
For the sake of the country, we need a Tory majority. Hopefully enough to persuade labour to put a credible leader in place, but not the Blair-size proportions where they have unlimited power.

We need a strong opposition, to get this we need labour to be beaten. Five years of a 25-seat Tory majority and very strong Labour leader would be a much better position to be in.



I think David Miliband would be a great leader. I think momentum will push for Rebecca Long Bailey or Angela Rayner to take over & will probably get their way. Hopefully Farage’s Brexit party, will actually fight this election & we’ll end up with another hung parliament. Then change the voting age, EU Nationals the vote & change the voting system. Chuck another referendum in after 6 months. Unfortunately I think the Tories will win & we’ll have a disastrous brexit, followed by a recession that will put the country back years


After Labour last ruled the country...............

https://inews.co.uk/...ls-david-laws-534179



It was a joke. You know that, I know that & everyone that ever read this boring story knows that. The world economic crash, was why the economy went south. But the Tory press has blamed Brown/Blair enough times that simpletons believe it.
Unlike the fact that the Tories plan to sell off the NHS &?expect us to believe it isn’t true because they say it isn’t & the Right Wing press will back them up.


The letter is a fact.

The Tories wanting to sell the NHS is a lie, a soundbite , Project Fear.

Only the duped and the converted believe that. It plays to the Lefty envy hate mob but no-one else falls for that shite..


steve walker
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Nov 1, 2019, 9:10 PM

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Re: [Yatesman] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The letter was actually a joke but a mistake obviously as it's been used in propoganda ever since.
Johnson wanting trade deals with Trump 'America First' won't even come close to the access to free trade we have with the EU even if the NHS was not included.
I'm not duped, converted or lefty and that language just epitomises why this Election will be closer than Johnson thinks as you have almost made my mind up for me.... but still 6 weeks to go.


mick
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Nov 1, 2019, 9:23 PM

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I’m going to make a prediction off the back of that. By the end of 2020, the UK’s deficit will have doubled.
 


I wonder whether that prediction will be as accurate as the prediction of imminent financial collapse in Italy which you first made years ago and which you have repeated with new timescales a number of times since. What is the latest date for that one by the way ?


dottirofhod
Man City Transfer Target!


Nov 1, 2019, 9:48 PM

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Re: [mick] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Dont say things like thst Mick, I have faith in Ronsdog, I'm keeping all my kruggerands until the end of 2020 on his advice.
Will make a mint.



July 1, 2019 to June 30,2020 = 127 / 107 / 20 / 5 x 0-0's. (You know my rules) @ 07 / 12 / 2019 . Belgium top 5 tiers 0-0-0-(0-1-0)-(0-1-1-2) / Holland top 4 tiers - 0-0-0-(0-0) / Lux top 2 tiers 0 -2. England top 10 tiers - 0. Now blogging at https://eccentricity.video.blog/



Ronsdog
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Nov 1, 2019, 11:56 PM

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In Reply To

In Reply To
I’m going to make a prediction off the back of that. By the end of 2020, the UK’s deficit will have doubled.
 


I wonder whether that prediction will be as accurate as the prediction of imminent financial collapse in Italy which you first made years ago and which you have repeated with new timescales a number of times since. What is the latest date for that one by the way ?


Continue to scoff Mick.
But Italy is still on the brink of financial catastrophe. The use of accounting fraud...ie the introduction of the mini BOT together with the ECB allowing Italy to break the financial rules of the EU has simply delayed the inevitable.

I also warned in the previous thread, P145/152 that the Euro was overpriced and precious metals were the safest way to invest as a result.
At that time Gold and Silver were trading around £950/10 per oz.
Currently £1170/14 . You do the maths.

As the Hod pointed out Krugerrands have overtaken most other safe investments and are currently trading 35% above their May price.

And don't forget Vince Cables predictions back in 2004 that the world was heading for a massive crash.....four years later it happened.

As will the demise of the Euro and the crashing of the Italian economy.
It's simply a matter of time.


(This post was edited by Ronsdog on Nov 2, 2019, 3:48 AM)


Towlawtom
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Nov 2, 2019, 11:42 AM

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Great to see fracking , once described by Boris Johnson as “glorious news for humanity” has been stopped.
If only I could think of another idea he’s wholeheartedly backed that’s turned out to be disastrous and dangerous which should be stopped.

BTW I am off up to Sunderland later but there appears to be a total news blackout of theses riots that are happening. Anyone offer any advice on how to avoid these vigilante groups along the motorways. I'm thinking of taking the back roads or B roads and will keep a copy of the Daily express on the back seat just for back up.



I need to have the last word, as it always looks as if I am right !


Yatesman
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Nov 2, 2019, 8:45 PM

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In Reply To
Great to see fracking , once described by Boris Johnson as “glorious news for humanity” has been stopped.
If only I could think of another idea he’s wholeheartedly backed that’s turned out to be disastrous and dangerous which should be stopped.

BTW I am off up to Sunderland later but there appears to be a total news blackout of theses riots that are happening. Anyone offer any advice on how to avoid these vigilante groups along the motorways. I'm thinking of taking the back roads or B roads and will keep a copy of the Daily express on the back seat just for back up.


It's a pity that what passes for humour amongst leftys is the total disregard and patronisation of the working class .

It's why Labour won't win the GE


Towlawtom
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Nov 3, 2019, 4:47 PM

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I see ol Nigel Fromage has decided not to stand as a candidate

I suspect he doesn't want to go through another humiliation of being beaten by a bloke dressed as a dolphin.



I need to have the last word, as it always looks as if I am right !


Yatesman
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Nov 3, 2019, 6:08 PM

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In Reply To
I see ol Nigel Fromage has decided not to stand as a candidate

I suspect he doesn't want to go through another humiliation of being beaten by a bloke dressed as a dolphin.


It's like every time lefty's go personal and target individual politicians with sarcasm, hate, vitriol and disdain they've lost the political argument!


buncranaboy
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Nov 3, 2019, 6:16 PM

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Post #54 of 596 (1485 views)
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Is everyone who disagrees with you automatically a lefty ?


paulh66
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Nov 3, 2019, 7:09 PM

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When everyone's to your left then you're too far to the right!


Yatesman
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Nov 3, 2019, 7:21 PM

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Is everyone who disagrees with you automatically a lefty ?


I consider myself a lefty, just not a Corbyn Slut, but that wasn't the point.

I made the point that going personal as your main political argument doesn't come across particularly well.


Yatesman
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Nov 3, 2019, 7:22 PM

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When everyone's to your left then you're too far to the right!


A true but entirely irrelevant point.


paulh66
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Nov 3, 2019, 7:35 PM

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No, nail on head. You're just too consumed with your own ranting to notice. But do carry on.


steve walker
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I don't think this thread is going anywhere other than into the gutter is it.

Yatesman and PaulH do you not see that you are ruining these threads? Take your personal grievances to PMs so that other people feel able to contribute without being ridiculed by you two

Thanks... Steve


paulh66
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I hardly ever post in these threads so not really "ruining" them. At all. Simply pointing out that repeated references to lefty this and lefty that doesn't really do anything for the discussion or for the credibility of the poster.

Carry on..


Yatesman
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Nov 3, 2019, 8:13 PM

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Re: [paulh66] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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I hardly ever post in these threads so not really "ruining" them. At all. Simply pointing out that repeated references to lefty this and lefty that doesn't really do anything for the discussion or for the credibility of the poster.

Carry on..


Well thank you for pointing it out to me but I don't you need you to point out anything.

The Lefty tag is obviously effective, it's your reaction that's the problem

Shall we add 'Lefty' to words like 'surrender' that are to be banned by Corbyn's New Order?

As I said, I'm a Lefty, just that I'm a Brexit Lefty , which apparantly and confusingly makes me an extreme Right Wing Lefty.

I'm still trying to work that one out.

Anyway, as a Lefty myself, if I see other Lefty's disparaging the working class as Paul C is wont to do, or personalising the attacks rather than rising above that sort of gutter politics because they are poisoned by their stance on Brexit ,then I will call that out.


(This post was edited by Yatesman on Nov 3, 2019, 8:20 PM)


windydcfc
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Nov 3, 2019, 8:34 PM

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Post #62 of 596 (1386 views)
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Re: [Yatesman] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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In Reply To
I hardly ever post in these threads so not really "ruining" them. At all. Simply pointing out that repeated references to lefty this and lefty that doesn't really do anything for the discussion or for the credibility of the poster.

Carry on..


Well thank you for pointing it out to me but I don't you need you to point out anything.

The Lefty tag is obviously effective, it's your reaction that's the problem

Shall we add 'Lefty' to words like 'surrender' that are to be banned by Corbyn's New Order?

As I said, I'm a Lefty, just that I'm a Brexit Lefty , which apparantly and confusingly makes me an extreme Right Wing Lefty.

I'm still trying to work that one out.

Anyway, as a Lefty myself, if I see other Lefty's disparaging the working class as Paul C is wont to do, or personalising the attacks rather than rising above that sort of gutter politics because they are poisoned by their stance on Brexit ,then I will call that out.



But UKIP & the Brexit Parties are just disillusioned anti EU Thatcherite Tories. Nigel Farage will even admit that and left the Tory Party because the Party moved closer to the EU. So pray tell me, where’s the Left of centre or Left Wing anti-EU Party?



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


Yatesman
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Nov 3, 2019, 10:00 PM

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Post #63 of 596 (1350 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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In Reply To

In Reply To
I hardly ever post in these threads so not really "ruining" them. At all. Simply pointing out that repeated references to lefty this and lefty that doesn't really do anything for the discussion or for the credibility of the poster.

Carry on..


Well thank you for pointing it out to me but I don't you need you to point out anything.

The Lefty tag is obviously effective, it's your reaction that's the problem

Shall we add 'Lefty' to words like 'surrender' that are to be banned by Corbyn's New Order?

As I said, I'm a Lefty, just that I'm a Brexit Lefty , which apparantly and confusingly makes me an extreme Right Wing Lefty.

I'm still trying to work that one out.

Anyway, as a Lefty myself, if I see other Lefty's disparaging the working class as Paul C is wont to do, or personalising the attacks rather than rising above that sort of gutter politics because they are poisoned by their stance on Brexit ,then I will call that out.



But UKIP & the Brexit Parties are just disillusioned anti EU Thatcherite Tories. Nigel Farage will even admit that and left the Tory Party because the Party moved closer to the EU. So pray tell me, where’s the Left of centre or Left Wing anti-EU Party?


Exactly!

Where is the Lefty anti-EU Party??

That should have been Labour.

UKIP never attracted 17.4 million votes so where did those voters come from?

Brexit always was and still is a cross party phenomenom. Lefty's , Thatcherites, Nationalists, Marxists, Mainstream Conservatives and Grassroots Working Class Labourites.

The People know that. It's only vested political interests and politicians that want to deny the truth.

For example.

1 million Scots voted to Leave, many of them SNP voters . Not once does Sturgeon credit them with any sort of acknowledgement.


leohoenig
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Nov 4, 2019, 8:56 AM

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Post #64 of 596 (1291 views)
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Re: [Yatesman] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Your calculation forgets that while support for Brexit was split over many parties, so was opposition to it.

There are many Conservative MPs in seats that voted against Brexit who are now committed to voting for it. (Anyone who follows the whips blindly).



With only a narrow majority, the government should have been heading for a very soft Brexit, but instead they kept drawing red lines in the sand. The current plan certainly crosses at least one of these, (the red line in the Irish sea).

While Labour supporters can continue to support Labour, as this will deliver a second referendum. Brexiteers will be able to re-affirm support for Brexit with a second referendum with the terms known (an idea put forward in the past by Jacob Rees-Mogg), Remainers should also accept this scenario.


There appears to be no party, right of centre for people with those tendancies, but who wish to go Remain in the EU. Brexit has always been about the split in the Conservative party, and it still is, but it has now been dogmatised in the same way as we keep hearing about in respect to Labour/Momentum and anti-Brexit supporters no longer appear welcome in the Conservatives.



Fat AND Pompous.
The proof that you can have too much of a good thing
Now blogging at http://www.leohoenig.com



PaulC
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Nov 4, 2019, 4:21 PM

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Post #65 of 596 (1192 views)
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Re: [leohoenig] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Move along there. Nothing to see here:

"Downing Street has effectively blocked the publication of a potentially explosive parliamentary report on the security threat that Russia poses to the UK until after the general election.

The 50-page document from the intelligence and security committee examines allegations that Kremlin-sponsored activity distorted the result of the 2016 EU referendum, but has to be cleared by No 10 before it can be released."


https://www.theguardian.com/...p;utm_medium=twitter


(This post was edited by PaulC on Nov 4, 2019, 4:24 PM)


jon b
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Nov 5, 2019, 1:11 AM

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Post #66 of 596 (1098 views)
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Re: [leohoenig] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I'm struggling to work out why Farage is making such a song and dance about demanding a "clean break" no deal Brexit. Surely from the Brexiter point of view the crucial point is to get out of the EU?

Once we're out, the Trumpian line with treaties/deals they don't like, is to renounce them and start negotiating afresh. I'd have thought Johnson and Farage would have taken that line.

Johnson seems prepared to disregard Farage's offer of a no deal election pact. I suspect his view is that right wing supporters of Brexit will rally to the Tory party whilst left wing Brexit supporters will not return to supporting Labour but stick with the Brexit Party.

.


Yatesman
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Nov 5, 2019, 6:44 AM

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Post #67 of 596 (1062 views)
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Re: [PaulC] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Move along there. Nothing to see here:

"Downing Street has effectively blocked the publication of a potentially explosive parliamentary report on the security threat that Russia poses to the UK until after the general election.

The 50-page document from the intelligence and security committee examines allegations that Kremlin-sponsored activity distorted the result of the 2016 EU referendum, but has to be cleared by No 10 before it can be released."


https://www.theguardian.com/...p;utm_medium=twitter



'Parliamentary' Report or 'Remainer' Report, LOL!?

Reds Under The Bed, LOL!

Committee Chairman Dominic Grieve, LOL!

I think the Gov't needs time to 'Scrutinise' this report.............Lots and lots of time ,LOL!


Yatesman
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Nov 5, 2019, 6:50 AM

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Post #68 of 596 (1060 views)
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Re: [jon b] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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I'm struggling to work out why Farage is making such a song and dance about demanding a "clean break" no deal Brexit. Surely from the Brexiter point of view the crucial point is to get out of the EU?

Once we're out, the Trumpian line with treaties/deals they don't like, is to renounce them and start negotiating afresh. I'd have thought Johnson and Farage would have taken that line.

Johnson seems prepared to disregard Farage's offer of a no deal election pact. I suspect his view is that right wing supporters of Brexit will rally to the Tory party whilst left wing Brexit supporters will not return to supporting Labour but stick with the Brexit Party.

.


It's a difficult call.

But I think plenty of former Labour voters will go Tory at this election.

The biggest threat is a low turn out amongst Leave voters disillusioned with UK Democracy!


007Dale
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Nov 5, 2019, 9:13 AM

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Post #69 of 596 (1009 views)
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Re: [Yatesman] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The polls released over the weekend seem to indicate support falling for Minor parties, including Brexit Party, with both Tories and Labour increasing slightly.

If we take the latest Opinium survey, which was for the Observer;
Tories 42% (+2%)
Labour 26% (+2%)
Lib Dem’s 16% (+1%)
Brexit 9% (-1%)
SNP 5% (-1%)
Green 2% (-1%)

Most of the other recent surveys show similar moves, some with Lib Dem’s going backwards as well.

Applying this to seats would broadly give:
Tories 422
Labour 139
SNP 44
Lib Dem’s 23

Conservative majority 194.

I suspect we’ll see support for the Labour Party increase over the coming weeks at the expense of minor parties, Tories will do well to hold a 40%+ share.


PaulC
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Nov 5, 2019, 10:02 AM

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Post #70 of 596 (993 views)
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Re: [007Dale] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Tory lead over Labour slashed from 17 points to 7 points in just one week.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/uk-opinion-polls-boris-johnsons-lead-over-jeremy-corbyn-narrows-in-latest-general-election-poll-a4278686.html

Time for more slurs and smears from the Tories.


007Dale
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Nov 5, 2019, 10:20 AM

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Post #71 of 596 (989 views)
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Re: [PaulC] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Tory lead over Labour slashed from 17 points to 7 points in just one week.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/uk-opinion-polls-boris-johnsons-lead-over-jeremy-corbyn-narrows-in-latest-general-election-poll-a4278686.html

Time for more slurs and smears from the Tories.


Yep, pick a poll, the latest message is minor parties support falling away. I think you’re referring to the ICM which suggests support for SNP has collapsed, along with Lib Dem’s and Brexit Party.


Uncle Ian
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Nov 5, 2019, 12:47 PM

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Post #72 of 596 (937 views)
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Re: [PaulC] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

What is worrying me are my investments. What to do if the Tories don't get in.
I've got the apartment in Garavan, near Menton plus three flats in London which I've got currently rented out.
Then there are the investments; mainly on good interest rates at the best private banks.
No one here has mentioned anything about their financial worries yet. Maybe this note will jog their memories.


jon b
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Nov 5, 2019, 3:54 PM

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Post #73 of 596 (862 views)
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Re: [007Dale] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
The polls released over the weekend seem to indicate support falling for Minor parties, including Brexit Party, with both Tories and Labour increasing slightly.

If we take the latest Opinium survey, which was for the Observer;
Tories 42% (+2%)
Labour 26% (+2%)
Lib Dem’s 16% (+1%)
Brexit 9% (-1%)
SNP 5% (-1%)
Green 2% (-1%)

Most of the other recent surveys show similar moves, some with Lib Dem’s going backwards as well.

Applying this to seats would broadly give:
Tories 422
Labour 139
SNP 44
Lib Dem’s 23

Conservative majority 194.

I suspect we’ll see support for the Labour Party increase over the coming weeks at the expense of minor parties, Tories will do well to hold a 40%+ share.


Well at this stage Labour seem most nervous about the outcome. Their tactic appears to be to try to be both Remain and Leave on Brexit, whilst trying to move the battle onto areas they consider the Tories are weak on, such as the Austerity policy of the last nine years.

They managed to fight on those areas in 2017 but in 2019?.......

I'm not sure how national polls translate into the various local debates.

Still early days, but surely Johnson can't be as dreadful a campaigner as May.

.


Towlawtom
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Nov 5, 2019, 4:17 PM

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Post #74 of 596 (853 views)
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Re: [jon b] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Polls are all over the place. This one predicts a Lib dem win over the sitting labour MP in Portsmouth South , The lib dems came a poor 3rd last time

https://www.markpack.org.uk/160216/new-constituency-poll-shows-liberal-democrats-leading-in-portsmouth-south/



I need to have the last word, as it always looks as if I am right !


PaulC
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Nov 5, 2019, 6:05 PM

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Post #75 of 596 (820 views)
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Re: [jon b] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Tories now stooping to faking Keir Starmer interviews.

But always remember they only need to fool the most stupid one third of the population to win the election.



https://twitter.com/...776365567184896?s=20


Yatesman
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Nov 5, 2019, 8:47 PM

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Post #76 of 596 (1166 views)
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Re: [PaulC] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Tories now stooping to faking Keir Starmer interviews.

But always remember they only need to fool the most stupid one third of the population to win the election.



https://twitter.com/...776365567184896?s=20


Not that they need to. LOL!

I heard Kier Starmer on R4 this morning and he is all over the shop!

Labour's position on Brexit is a Joke.........Go To Brussels, negotiate our ' Best Withdrawal Deal Yet ', in record time ( 4-6 weeks), put it to the electorate via the referendum .........but Campaign against it!!

Yeah Right, LOL!

Oh.........but only the third thickest in the land think that's a Joke, LOL!


PaulC
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Nov 5, 2019, 8:52 PM

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Post #77 of 596 (1163 views)
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Re: [Yatesman] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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I heard Kier Starmer on R4 this morning and he is all over the shop!

Labour's position on Brexit is a Joke.........Go To Brussels, negotiate our ' Best Withdrawal Deal Yet ', in record time ( 4-6 weeks), put it to the electorate via the referendum .........but Campaign against it!!

Yeah Right, LOL!


To be fair it beats promising to leave every three months.

Whatever the deal Labour or Tories come with it will be inferior to the one we already have.


Yatesman
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Post #78 of 596 (1162 views)
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Re: [Towlawtom] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Polls are all over the place. This one predicts a Lib dem win over the sitting labour MP in Portsmouth South , The lib dems came a poor 3rd last time

https://www.markpack.org.uk/160216/new-constituency-poll-shows-liberal-democrats-leading-in-portsmouth-south/


No but, Yeah but, No but...........Polls are brilliant science, fantastic evidence based research ....,

Only the lowest third on the numpty scale would not believe that polls are cast-iron nuggets of irrefutable knowledge.

Not 'Dodgy Science' in the slightest , LOL!


Yatesman
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Nov 5, 2019, 9:04 PM

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Post #79 of 596 (1147 views)
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Re: [PaulC] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
I heard Kier Starmer on R4 this morning and he is all over the shop!

Labour's position on Brexit is a Joke.........Go To Brussels, negotiate our ' Best Withdrawal Deal Yet ', in record time ( 4-6 weeks), put it to the electorate via the referendum .........but Campaign against it!!

Yeah Right, LOL!


To be fair it beats promising to leave every three months.

Whatever the deal Labour or Tories come with it will be inferior to the one we already have.


Leaving the EU isn't just about the trading deal though is it?

It's abount a layer of Govrnment thst is remote, unaccountable and taking us in a direction called 'Ever Closer Union' that will strip us of our Sovereignity .........Basically, cut our Balls off!

Remaining can't really help us with that can it?


PaulC
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Nov 5, 2019, 9:12 PM

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Post #80 of 596 (1144 views)
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Re: [Yatesman] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
I heard Kier Starmer on R4 this morning and he is all over the shop!

Labour's position on Brexit is a Joke.........Go To Brussels, negotiate our ' Best Withdrawal Deal Yet ', in record time ( 4-6 weeks), put it to the electorate via the referendum .........but Campaign against it!!

Yeah Right, LOL!


To be fair it beats promising to leave every three months.

Whatever the deal Labour or Tories come with it will be inferior to the one we already have.


Leaving the EU isn't just about the trading deal though is it?

It's abount a layer of Govrnment thst is remote, unaccountable and taking us in a direction called 'Ever Closer Union' that will strip us of our Sovereignity .........Basically, cut our Balls off!

Remaining can't really help us with that can it?


I'm sorry the word "fact" is in the link, knowing as I do how much Brexiteers hate it, but here some facts on "Ever Closer Union".

https://fullfact.org/...l-ever-closer-union/


Yatesman
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Nov 5, 2019, 9:18 PM

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Post #81 of 596 (1143 views)
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Re: [PaulC] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
I heard Kier Starmer on R4 this morning and he is all over the shop!

Labour's position on Brexit is a Joke.........Go To Brussels, negotiate our ' Best Withdrawal Deal Yet ', in record time ( 4-6 weeks), put it to the electorate via the referendum .........but Campaign against it!!

Yeah Right, LOL!


To be fair it beats promising to leave every three months.

Whatever the deal Labour or Tories come with it will be inferior to the one we already have.


Maybe I should vote Labour............and at the same time not vote Labour , LOL!


Yatesman
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Nov 5, 2019, 9:24 PM

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Post #82 of 596 (1138 views)
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Re: [PaulC] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
I heard Kier Starmer on R4 this morning and he is all over the shop!

Labour's position on Brexit is a Joke.........Go To Brussels, negotiate our ' Best Withdrawal Deal Yet ', in record time ( 4-6 weeks), put it to the electorate via the referendum .........but Campaign against it!!

Yeah Right, LOL!


To be fair it beats promising to leave every three months.

Whatever the deal Labour or Tories come with it will be inferior to the one we already have.


Leaving the EU isn't just about the trading deal though is it?

It's abount a layer of Govrnment thst is remote, unaccountable and taking us in a direction called 'Ever Closer Union' that will strip us of our Sovereignity .........Basically, cut our Balls off!

Remaining can't really help us with that can it?


I'm sorry the word "fact" is in the link, knowing as I do how much Brexiteers hate it, but here some facts on "Ever Closer Union".

https://fullfact.org/...l-ever-closer-union/


The surest way to ensure we don't get sucked in to Ever Closer Union and being totally subsumed in to a Greater EU of Empire like status by default or by subterfuge and disingenuity is to Leave.


steve walker
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Nov 5, 2019, 9:42 PM

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Post #83 of 596 (1128 views)
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Re: [paulh66] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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I hardly ever post in these threads so not really "ruining" them. At all. Simply pointing out that repeated references to lefty this and lefty that doesn't really do anything for the discussion or for the credibility of the poster.

Carry on..



My apologies to you paulh… I got my pauls mixed up. My bad... sorry

The sentiment of my post still remains regarding Yatesman and the other paul. Take it to private and stop stifling the discussion on here, it's very boring for the rest of us.


PaulC
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Nov 5, 2019, 9:50 PM

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Post #84 of 596 (1124 views)
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Re: [steve walker] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
I hardly ever post in these threads so not really "ruining" them. At all. Simply pointing out that repeated references to lefty this and lefty that doesn't really do anything for the discussion or for the credibility of the poster.

Carry on..



My apologies to you paulh… I got my pauls mixed up. My bad... sorry

The sentiment of my post still remains regarding Yatesman and the other paul. Take it to private and stop stifling the discussion on here, it's very boring for the rest of us.


Sorry, I don’t understand.

What are you objecting to and how is discussion for others being stifled?


steve walker
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Nov 5, 2019, 10:01 PM

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Re: [PaulC] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Because just like the other two threads it's PaulC v Yatesman trying to score points over each other. Continuously. It's like you both shout so loud that nobody else can get a word in if it was a real life conversation.

Yes I do think it is stifling discussion from other posters that may want to contribute.


buncranaboy
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Post #86 of 596 (1109 views)
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Re: [steve walker] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Because just like the other two threads it's PaulC v Yatesman trying to score points over each other. Continuously. It's like you both shout so loud that nobody else can get a word in if it was a real life conversation.

Yes I do think it is stifling discussion from other posters that may want to contribute.


I agree. Constantly lolling backward and forwards like Waldorf and Statler in fake Scots

And I don't know who to vote for either other than it won't be for the loathsome Farage or the equally loathsome Liar Johnson


Yatesman
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Nov 6, 2019, 6:57 AM

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Re: [buncranaboy] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Because just like the other two threads it's PaulC v Yatesman trying to score points over each other. Continuously. It's like you both shout so loud that nobody else can get a word in if it was a real life conversation.

Yes I do think it is stifling discussion from other posters that may want to contribute.


I agree. Constantly lolling backward and forwards like Waldorf and Statler in fake Scots

And I don't know who to vote for either other than it won't be for the loathsome Farage or the equally loathsome Liar Johnson


Fake Scots.......I like that !! ( I'll not LOL!, I've decided that's puerile anyway)

Loathesome politicians are the norm unfortunately..

Swinson and Corbyn are both lying loathesome creatures as well. The latest bullshit being that they can stop climate change.......wtf??

Like all the planet's Co2 emissions are British and no-one else is responsible......disingenuous lying gits..


Towlawtom
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Re: [Yatesman] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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[Swinson and Corbyn are both lying loathesome creatures as well. The latest bullshit being that they can stop climate change.......wtf??

Like all the planet's Co2 emissions are British and no-one else is responsible......disingenuous lying gits..


Similar to a lot of the brexit leavers then who are under the impression that the UK are sole contributors towards funding the EU.



I need to have the last word, as it always looks as if I am right !


007Dale
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Nov 6, 2019, 8:19 AM

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Re: [Towlawtom] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

What is remarkable is that May managed to botch the 2017 election against the weakest, feeblest, most irrational, most incoherent opposition in British Political history.

Like him or loath him, Boris Johnson will not make the same mistake.

This should be a cricket score victory for the Tories, which will be to the benefit of the UK. Allow the Labour Party to put in someone electable and have a strong opposition for the next five years.


PaulC
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Nov 6, 2019, 9:02 AM

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In Reply To
What is remarkable is that May managed to botch the 2017 election against the weakest, feeblest, most irrational, most incoherent opposition in British Political history.

Like him or loath him, Boris Johnson will not make the same mistake.


James Cleverley (nominative determinism gone wrong) currently being empty chaired by Kay Burley as he fails to turn up to answer questions about doctoring Keir Starmer interview on GMB.

BBC Newsnight last night was a hoot as Emily Maitlis went through Tory disaster after Tory disaster - all on one day:

Tory doctoring of TV interviews
Calls for Welsh Minister to resign
Johnson hiding report on Russian interference in our elections. What was Cummings doing in Russia for 3 years?
Tories stopped from using civil servants to do their political work
Rees-Mogg and others making despicable comments about Greenfell.

When you strip away Tory lies, deceit and distortion there isn't much left. Just shear incompetence and malevolence.


PaulC
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Nov 6, 2019, 9:16 AM

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Re: [PaulC] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

 
Boris's Tories starting today well:

https://twitter.com/...003392677261312?s=20


007Dale
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In Reply To

In Reply To
What is remarkable is that May managed to botch the 2017 election against the weakest, feeblest, most irrational, most incoherent opposition in British Political history.

Like him or loath him, Boris Johnson will not make the same mistake.


James Cleverley (nominative determinism gone wrong) currently being empty chaired by Kay Burley as he fails to turn up to answer questions about doctoring Keir Starmer interview on GMB.

BBC Newsnight last night was a hoot as Emily Maitlis went through Tory disaster after Tory disaster - all on one day:

Tory doctoring of TV interviews
Calls for Welsh Minister to resign
Johnson hiding report on Russian interference in our elections. What was Cummings doing in Russia for 3 years?
Tories stopped from using civil servants to do their political work
Rees-Mogg and others making despicable comments about Greenfell.

When you strip away Tory lies, deceit and distortion there isn't much left. Just shear incompetence and malevolence.


All that and they’ll still win the election.

Really does say something about the opposition parties.


PaulC
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Nov 6, 2019, 10:33 AM

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In Reply To

All that and they’ll still win the election.

Really does say something about the opposition parties.


The Tory lead has already been halved even before this disastrous week for the Tories.

The one thing the Tories fear is scrutiny. The idiots who read the Mail, Express, Telegraph will go on voting for them but the semi-intelligent voter takes all this in.

The Tories cannot be trusted. They are liars.


Towlawtom
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Nov 6, 2019, 10:36 AM

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Post #94 of 596 (944 views)
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Re: [007Dale] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
What is remarkable is that May managed to botch the 2017 election against the weakest, feeblest, most irrational, most incoherent opposition in British Political history.

Like him or loath him, Boris Johnson will not make the same mistake.

This should be a cricket score victory for the Tories, which will be to the benefit of the UK. Allow the Labour Party to put in someone electable and have a strong opposition for the next five years.


Reallly wouldn't bank on that at all. I think he will make at least one major gaffe which his opponents will seize on
Wouldn't surprise me if the tories might have dropped by 5 points in the next polls after the JRM and Cairns shenanigans.



I need to have the last word, as it always looks as if I am right !


Mr. T
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Re: [007Dale] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
What is remarkable is that May managed to botch the 2017 election against the weakest, feeblest, most irrational, most incoherent opposition in British Political history.

One could almost be excused for thinking she planned it that way...


007Dale
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Nov 6, 2019, 10:55 AM

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Re: [PaulC] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

The Tory lead has already been halved even before this disastrous week for the Tories.


Hmm, being a bit selective there Paul.

YouGov 4th November - Tory lead 13% (+1)
ICM 4th November - Tory lead 7% (+1)
DeltaPoll 2nd November- Tory Lead 13% (-1)
Opinium 2nd November - Tory Lead 16% (0)
ComRes 31st October - Tory Lead 8% (+4)

Obviously if you mix and match different surveys you can create any headlines you like, but the reality is probably a bit different from what you’d like.

However, I would expect polls to close together at various points over the next five weeks.


splodge
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Nov 6, 2019, 12:04 PM

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Re: [Towlawtom] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Polls are all over the place. This one predicts a Lib dem win over the sitting labour MP in Portsmouth South , The lib dems came a poor 3rd last time

https://www.markpack.org.uk/160216/new-constituency-poll-shows-liberal-democrats-leading-in-portsmouth-south/


Bit of a back drop as to why the LD's came 3rd here last time round. They are usually very strong, so its not a big surprise to me they have got back their vote if this is to be believed.

At the time of the last election Portsmouth South had Mike Hancock as its former Lib Dem MP (Russian Spy fiasco anyone) who was pretty much run out of town and so much wrong with how the Lib Dems had previously run the council which they then lost control to the Torys but still put the former council leader as the candidate, meaning the local electorate decided to give them a bloody nose.

Our sitting MP is the 1st labour one in Portsmouth South and is doing a decent enough job whilst at the same time (and much against my own opinion on being allowed) doing a very good as my local ward councillor.



www.twitter.com/splodgey
www.facebook.com/paulsplodgeproctor


(This post was edited by splodge on Nov 6, 2019, 12:10 PM)


jon b
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Nov 6, 2019, 12:55 PM

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Re: [007Dale] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

Like him or loath him, Boris Johnson will not make the same mistake.

This should be a cricket score victory for the Tories, which will be to the benefit of the UK. Allow the Labour Party to put in someone electable and have a strong opposition for the next five years.


If the Tories do run up a big majority it's likely it'd see the defeat in the GE of numerous of the high profile potential leaders currently on the Labour backbenches. Fortunately, Johnson is such a poor House of Commons performer that, post Corbyn, any moderately competent opposition leader should run rings around him.

But, of course, thanks to Miliband it's the membership that do the choosing and it was their cumulative wisdom that landed themselves with Jezza in the first place
Frown


jon b
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Re: [007Dale] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

Like him or loath him, Boris Johnson will not make the same mistake.


Like Trump and Farage, Johnson revels in being the centre of attention, either as poundland hero or pantomime villain.

I've no intention of wasting any emotion on him.

.


jon b
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Re: [Yatesman] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Because just like the other two threads it's PaulC v Yatesman trying to score points over each other. Continuously. It's like you both shout so loud that nobody else can get a word in if it was a real life conversation.

Yes I do think it is stifling discussion from other posters that may want to contribute.


I agree. Constantly lolling backward and forwards like Waldorf and Statler in fake Scots

And I don't know who to vote for either other than it won't be for the loathsome Farage or the equally loathsome Liar Johnson


Fake Scots.......I like that !! ( I'll not LOL!, I've decided that's puerile anyway)

Loathesome politicians are the norm unfortunately..

Swinson and Corbyn are both lying loathesome creatures as well. The latest bullshit being that they can stop climate change.......wtf??

Like all the planet's Co2 emissions are British and no-one else is responsible......disingenuous lying gits..


Despite the obsession with the big bad bogeyman EU, from a worldwide perspective the biggest danger (if the likes of USA/China/Russia can manage not to pratfall into military catastrophe) is obviously climate change.

Are you saying that there's no point in us trying to set an example or take a lead in tackling it? That we're too small and insignificant to have any effect?

If Brexiters see us as so weak there's no point even in trying, then maybe we should at least work with our fellow European states tackling such problems. Oh hang on, we're running away from that idea.......
.


Yatesman
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Re: [jon b] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Because just like the other two threads it's PaulC v Yatesman trying to score points over each other. Continuously. It's like you both shout so loud that nobody else can get a word in if it was a real life conversation.

Yes I do think it is stifling discussion from other posters that may want to contribute.


I agree. Constantly lolling backward and forwards like Waldorf and Statler in fake Scots

And I don't know who to vote for either other than it won't be for the loathsome Farage or the equally loathsome Liar Johnson


Fake Scots.......I like that !! ( I'll not LOL!, I've decided that's puerile anyway)

Loathesome politicians are the norm unfortunately..

Swinson and Corbyn are both lying loathesome creatures as well. The latest bullshit being that they can stop climate change.......wtf??

Like all the planet's Co2 emissions are British and no-one else is responsible......disingenuous lying gits..


Despite the obsession with the big bad bogeyman EU, from a worldwide perspective the biggest danger (if the likes of USA/China/Russia can manage not to pratfall into military catastrophe) is obviously climate change.

Are you saying that there's no point in us trying to set an example or take a lead in tackling it? That we're too small and insignificant to have any effect?

If Brexiters see us as so weak there's no point even in trying, then maybe we should at least work with our fellow European states tackling such problems. Oh hang on, we're running away from that idea.......
.


No, that's not what I'm saying.

My post does not even hint at your conclusion.

My post says that British politicians are lying to claim they can stop climate change and are wrong to suggest that voting for any given party this coming election is going to save the planet.


PaulC
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Nov 6, 2019, 9:03 PM

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Re: [Yatesman] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Which politicians have said they can stop climate change?


Yatesman
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Nov 6, 2019, 10:52 PM

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Which politicians have said they can stop climate change?


No offence but I'm still trying to work out if Kier Starmer is on Acid or Mushrooms !


jon b
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Re: [Yatesman] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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I consider myself a lefty


Who should a lefty Brexiter vote for?

.


Yatesman
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Re: [jon b] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

I consider myself a lefty


Who should a lefty Brexiter vote for?

.



If a voter considers Leaving the EU the overiding factor in this election then it seems there are limited choices on offer.

Each voter will have to decide it's priorities on the many issues at the fore in this election.


Personally, I think many voters will boycott this election but on the plus side for Remainers I think the young, especially new voters, will be engaged or enraged enough to get off their arses for once.


007Dale
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Re: [Yatesman] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Devastating last 18 hours for Labour;
- Labour Deputy resigns
- Former Labour MP Ian Austin tells everyone to vote for Boris as Corbyn is useless
- The Economic plan is widely savaged.


PaulC
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Devastating last 18 hours for Labour;
- Labour Deputy resigns
- Former Labour MP Ian Austin tells everyone to vote for Boris as Corbyn is useless
- The Economic plan is widely savaged.


Meanwhile
former Tory deputy PM Lidington resigns.

Kenneth Clarke says he can't vote for Johnson

The Tories abandon fiscal targets


leohoenig
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Re: [PaulC] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Conclusion - we would be better off without either of them



Fat AND Pompous.
The proof that you can have too much of a good thing
Now blogging at http://www.leohoenig.com



jon b
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In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
I consider myself a lefty

Who should a lefty Brexiter vote for?


If a voter considers Leaving the EU the overiding factor in this election then it seems there are limited choices on offer.

Each voter will have to decide it's priorities on the many issues at the fore in this election.

Personally, I think many voters will boycott this election but on the plus side for Remainers I think the young, especially new voters, will be engaged or enraged enough to get off their arses for once.


Complicated times. There's not enough support for another Referendum but a General Election is fought on a wide range of issues not just one.

In my case, as a Remainer and Lib Dem, it would seem I'd have an easy time deciding who to vote for. In actuality I'm stuck with the fact that Leave won in 2016 by well over a million votes. I still think Brexit is a serious mistake with negative consequences including the possibility of it leading to the break up of the UK, but it would be an even worse and dangerous mistake to try to ignore a clear democratic decision by the electorate.

So, I'm going to listen to the candidates in NE Derbys constituency and decide whether there's one worth voting for.

Strange times.

.


Yatesman
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Nov 7, 2019, 7:42 PM

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In Reply To
Devastating last 18 hours for Labour;
- Labour Deputy resigns
- Former Labour MP Ian Austin tells everyone to vote for Boris as Corbyn is useless
- The Economic plan is widely savaged.


Meanwhile
former Tory deputy PM Lidington resigns.

Kenneth Clarke says he can't vote for Johnson

The Tories abandon fiscal targets


At last, some good news for the Tories ^^^

Meanwhile, Oh dear.....
https://twitter.com/.../1192497193111949312


(This post was edited by Yatesman on Nov 7, 2019, 7:50 PM)


Yatesman
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In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
I consider myself a lefty

Who should a lefty Brexiter vote for?


If a voter considers Leaving the EU the overiding factor in this election then it seems there are limited choices on offer.

Each voter will have to decide it's priorities on the many issues at the fore in this election.

Personally, I think many voters will boycott this election but on the plus side for Remainers I think the young, especially new voters, will be engaged or enraged enough to get off their arses for once.


Complicated times. There's not enough support for another Referendum but a General Election is fought on a wide range of issues not just one.

In my case, as a Remainer and Lib Dem, it would seem I'd have an easy time deciding who to vote for. In actuality I'm stuck with the fact that Leave won in 2016 by well over a million votes. I still think Brexit is a serious mistake with negative consequences including the possibility of it leading to the break up of the UK, but it would be an even worse and dangerous mistake to try to ignore a clear democratic decision by the electorate.

So, I'm going to listen to the candidates in NE Derbys constituency and decide whether there's one worth voting for.

Strange times.

.




The Lib-Dem party you used to vote for no longer exists.

Illiberal-Undemocrats more like.

I think you know that tho' and the time for lying to ourselves is long gone ( Paul C take note!)


Yatesman
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Nov 7, 2019, 8:05 PM

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Re: [PaulC] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Meanwhile.........

https://www.nytimes.com/...id=nytcore-ios-share


PaulC
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In Reply To

Meanwhile, Oh dear.....





Yatesman
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Nov 7, 2019, 9:22 PM

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In Reply To

Meanwhile, Oh dear.....




Glad he has had time since that 3 yr oldtweet to realise it's honest naivety.

Bit like Mark Carney, then governor of the Bank of England making totally unethical and mistaken predictions of imminent economic disaster post referendum............

Didn't bloody happen tho' did it?

Never trust a Crystal Ball Gazer!


Ronsdog
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Nov 7, 2019, 10:27 PM

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Re: [Yatesman] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

 
So the confetti spree of £££££s has begun, as predicted.

Both parties are playing the old politicians game of bribing the electorate without a thought for the consequences.

Labour cover the cost of their plans with a dubious looking accounting trick...net worth values.
Whilst the Tories talk of their investment plans in grandiose terms as stimulating the more deprived areas by their package.

Well this observer sees not much changing until the nations appalling productivity levels improve significantly. Government cash can only do so much.
With private investment plans on hold until the Withdrawal Negotiations are complete, sometime this side of 2030, then I don't see it happening any time soon.

But the nation will feel better about itself in the short term.Crazy


steveking
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Nov 8, 2019, 1:30 PM

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Post #116 of 596 (2214 views)
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In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

Meanwhile, Oh dear.....




Glad he has had time since that 3 yr oldtweet to realise it's honest naivety.

Bit like Mark Carney, then governor of the Bank of England making totally unethical and mistaken predictions of imminent economic disaster post referendum............

Didn't bloody happen tho' did it?

Never trust a Crystal Ball Gazer!

So it is possible for people to change their minds in the space of three years!? Wink


Ronsdog
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Nov 8, 2019, 3:20 PM

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Re: [steveking] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

 
The latest report concerning the economy from the IFS....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50318232

The expectation of higher taxes to pay for the spending plans of both major parties now looks likely.

If Jezza is serious in his claim that ordinary folk will not face higher taxes then he must hope that the 1% he has targeted don't up sticks and take their wealth with them. They currently account for a third of all the income tax take!

Fantasy economics yet again from the Labour (communist) Party.


(This post was edited by Ronsdog on Nov 8, 2019, 3:22 PM)


Climate Change
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In Reply To


In my case, as a Remainer and Lib Dem, it would seem I'd have an easy time deciding who to vote for. In actuality I'm stuck with the fact that Leave won in 2016 by well over a million votes. I still think Brexit is a serious mistake with negative consequences including the possibility of it leading to the break up of the UK, but it would be an even worse and dangerous mistake to try to ignore a clear democratic decision by the electorate.



Best post I have read on any of these political threads which are normally commandeered by the two pretend Scotsmen.....



I don't need Google. I have a Hoddy.


Yatesman
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Nov 8, 2019, 9:16 PM

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In Reply To

In Reply To


In my case, as a Remainer and Lib Dem, it would seem I'd have an easy time deciding who to vote for. In actuality I'm stuck with the fact that Leave won in 2016 by well over a million votes. I still think Brexit is a serious mistake with negative consequences including the possibility of it leading to the break up of the UK, but it would be an even worse and dangerous mistake to try to ignore a clear democratic decision by the electorate.



Best post I have read on any of these political threads which are normally commandeered by the two pretend Scotsmen.....


Qui? Moi?

I don't think a single Scottish person who knows me would ever draw that conclusion,LoL!


Carrot Cruncher, Wurzle or Farmer/Pirate perhaps but a Jock???

That's hilarious!


steve walker
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Re: [Yatesman] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

You do know that for most people Brexit is not the defining issue. It's how their lives are being affected by the 10 years of this Government.
The use of foodbanks and people sleeping rough on the streets has trebled. It's a disgusting fact. We are told that we have more people in work than ever before and the economy is fine... it's all bull... in fact we have more people who are classed as 'employed' but may not get any work that week thanks to the way that the figures are manipulated these days.
I took my wife to A&E because she was undergoing cancer treatment and was in such a state that she didn't know who I was. She spent 7 hours on a trolley in a corridor after being blue lighted there by ambulance before seeing a doctor. They just didn't have enough staff and that A&E has now closed so if it happens again it's a 40 mile trip to the nearest A&E
These are the issues people will vote on. I don't really give an eff about you Scots getting your independence most of us would tow you out to sea and let you go if that what's you want but we care about how our real lives are being affected by this current Government whose only promise seems to be to be undo all the damage they have done in the past 10 years.
Yes I will vote Labour in this election despite the media campaign against Corbyn. I have a social conscience so I can't really vote any other way.


Chris1963
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In Reply To
You do know that for most people Brexit is not the defining issue. It's how their lives are being affected by the 10 years of this Government.
The use of foodbanks and people sleeping rough on the streets has trebled. It's a disgusting fact. We are told that we have more people in work than ever before and the economy is fine... it's all bull... in fact we have more people who are classed as 'employed' but may not get any work that week thanks to the way that the figures are manipulated these days.
I took my wife to A&E because she was undergoing cancer treatment and was in such a state that she didn't know who I was. She spent 7 hours on a trolley in a corridor after being blue lighted there by ambulance before seeing a doctor. They just didn't have enough staff and that A&E has now closed so if it happens again it's a 40 mile trip to the nearest A&E
These are the issues people will vote on. I don't really give an eff about you Scots getting your independence most of us would tow you out to sea and let you go if that what's you want but we care about how our real lives are being affected by this current Government whose only promise seems to be to be undo all the damage they have done in the past 10 years.
Yes I will vote Labour in this election despite the media campaign against Corbyn. I have a social conscience so I can't really vote any other way.


Sorry to read about your wife, Steve. I will also vote Labour because I'm fed up with the way the press is having a go at him all the time, although if the Lib Dems were the second strongest party in my constituency I would vote tactically for them.


Chris1963
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In Reply To


In my case, as a Remainer and Lib Dem, it would seem I'd have an easy time deciding who to vote for. In actuality I'm stuck with the fact that Leave won in 2016 by well over a million votes. I still think Brexit is a serious mistake with negative consequences including the possibility of it leading to the break up of the UK, but it would be an even worse and dangerous mistake to try to ignore a clear democratic decision by the electorate.



Best post I have read on any of these political threads which are normally commandeered by the two pretend Scotsmen.....


I'm glad that you now agree that Brexit is a serious mistake with negative consequences.


TroubleAtMill
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So far the politicians of the main parties and their (for and against) brexit minded representatives on here have so far not persuaded me to vote for any of them. They're all centering to much on abuse and lols for that.

Here's hoping, but not expecting, that this will change.

(and apologies for starting this thread)


(This post was edited by TroubleAtMill on Nov 9, 2019, 6:58 AM)


Yatesman
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You do know that for most people Brexit is not the defining issue. It's how their lives are being affected by the 10 years of this Government.
The use of foodbanks and people sleeping rough on the streets has trebled. It's a disgusting fact. We are told that we have more people in work than ever before and the economy is fine... it's all bull... in fact we have more people who are classed as 'employed' but may not get any work that week thanks to the way that the figures are manipulated these days.
I took my wife to A&E because she was undergoing cancer treatment and was in such a state that she didn't know who I was. She spent 7 hours on a trolley in a corridor after being blue lighted there by ambulance before seeing a doctor. They just didn't have enough staff and that A&E has now closed so if it happens again it's a 40 mile trip to the nearest A&E
These are the issues people will vote on. I don't really give an eff about you Scots getting your independence most of us would tow you out to sea and let you go if that what's you want but we care about how our real lives are being affected by this current Government whose only promise seems to be to be undo all the damage they have done in the past 10 years.
Yes I will vote Labour in this election despite the media campaign against Corbyn. I have a social conscience so I can't really vote any other way.


I'm sorry to hear about your wife's health issues and we all want our loved ones to access the best possible treatment and care.

My partner works in the NHS and the way it is run is a shambles and by that I mean not just by the Gov't but at a local level at the coal face.

The management structure is wrong, remote and target driven and the contracts a lot of the more highly skilled health workers are signed up to are not condusive to providing good quality care 24/7.

Any political party that pledged to take the NHS out of the political arena and have it run independently by a national commission would get my vote.

Your wife would have been triaged upon entry to the A&E and the health professional would have assessed her needs based on clinical assessments and prioritised her accordingly.

You have to remember that too many people use A&E as a way of circumventing doctors' appointments and therefore that clogs up the system.

I would take exception to the notion that only Labour/Liberal/SNP supporters have a social conscience. That is ignorant exceptionalism in extremis.
I think Tories also have a Social Conscience but just have alternative ideas on how to gratify that conscience.

One thing Labour supporters do well is use emotive , individual situations as a broad brush to paint over the whole of society.

As for ScotIndy............I'm not a fan and I'm not a Scot......I just live, love ,work and pay taxes here!


Climate Change
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I'm glad that you now agree that Brexit is a serious mistake with negative consequences.


How did you come to that conclusion!?



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007Dale
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The swath of polls released for the Sunday papers seem to indicate little has changed after the first week of campaigning;

YouGov - Tory Lead 13% (+2%)
DeltaPoll - Tory Lead 12% (0%)
Opinium - Tory Lead 12% (-4%)
Panelbase - Tory Lead 10% (-1%)

I’ve shown all the polls published from the 8th November, rather than pick and choose ones to suit a message.

What’s interesting is the polls are converging towards the same sort of lead for the Tories, where before they had wildly different results.

Also worth noting that support for the main two parties solidified at the expense of smaller parties, with Brexit party in particular taking a hit this week.

Plenty of time to go yet...


Towlawtom
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Agree with you 007 Dale.

Plenty of time for more Gaffes and lies for Johnson to be exposed and more time for the electorate to see him for what he is!



I need to have the last word, as it always looks as if I am right !


Yatesman
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The swath of polls released for the Sunday papers seem to indicate little has changed after the first week of campaigning;

YouGov - Tory Lead 13% (+2%)
DeltaPoll - Tory Lead 12% (0%)
Opinium - Tory Lead 12% (-4%)
Panelbase - Tory Lead 10% (-1%)

I’ve shown all the polls published from the 8th November, rather than pick and choose ones to suit a message.

What’s interesting is the polls are converging towards the same sort of lead for the Tories, where before they had wildly different results.

Also worth noting that support for the main two parties solidified at the expense of smaller parties, with Brexit party in particular taking a hit this week.

Plenty of time to go yet...



If that does represent the outlook of the electorate then I would imagine it's because they are not prepared to sign up to a Socialist UK under Labour that would bankrupt the country with their £1.2trillion spending plans and their proposals to throw the borders wide open to all and sundry.


leohoenig
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Agree with you 007 Dale.

Plenty of time for more Gaffes and lies for Johnson to be exposed and more time for the electorate to see him for what he is!


Except it does not appear to matter. It appears that day after day, we see reports of Tory lies and Johnson gaffes, but it makes little difference in the overall picture.

Before the election, there was a poll where more people said they trusted Johnson more than Corbyn. This is amazing. Johnson will tell one lie today and another tomorrow. Generally, when Corbyn says something you disagree with, it really is his intention to carry through this policy in office



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Towlawtom
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It still amazes me how he got off lightly by not Delivering brexit on 31st October .He never said we only be leaving on 31st October if the opposition parties or his brexit opponents were to fall in line with him, did he?

We will leave 31st October Do or die he said!



I need to have the last word, as it always looks as if I am right !


Towlawtom
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.



If that does represent the outlook of the electorate then I would imagine it's because they are not prepared to sign up to a Socialist UK under Labour that would bankrupt the country with their £1.2trillion spending plans and their proposals to throw the borders wide open to all and sundry.[/reply

The 1.2 trillion is fake news given by Kwasi Kwarteng. What an idiot he looked this morning! It was a 35 page dossier cooked up by Tory researchers and then fed to the right wing media. The CONservative party can't give a figure on their overspending plans when pressed on the matter.
When Kwarteng was asked on Tory spending plans he Quoted "I'm not going to bandy round figures" Oh the irony!



I need to have the last word, as it always looks as if I am right !

(This post was edited by Towlawtom on Nov 10, 2019, 12:25 PM)


PaulC
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PaulC
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If that does represent the outlook of the electorate then I would imagine it's because they are not prepared to sign up to a Socialist UK under Labour that would bankrupt the country with their £1.2trillion spending plans and their proposals to throw the borders wide open to all and sundry.


It's incredible how some people just swallow Tory propaganda without without the least bit of questioning.

Yet the Tories have increased the National Debt by nearly £1 trillion in the past decade ... and to what purpose?


This is hilarious!!

Kwarteng asked how much the Tories are going to spend by Sophy Ridge:

"I'm not going to bandy around figures" Car crash TV.

Yet there are people in our midst who actually believe and even quoe what he says. Is it any wonder there is a majority for Brexit when there are such credulous voters. You have to hand it to the Tories though - they know how to get the unthinking masses to vote against their own interests.

https://twitter.com/...462767866580992?s=20


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Generally, when Corbyn says something you disagree with, it really is his intention to carry through this policy in office


Considering he has never been in office, how do we know?



I don't need Google. I have a Hoddy.


paulh66
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In Reply To

In Reply To
Generally, when Corbyn says something you disagree with, it really is his intention to carry through this policy in office


Considering he has never been in office, how do we know?


And the same could have been said of Thatcher. Or even Hitler! Doing what you say you're going to do doesn't, in itself, necessarily inspire trust.


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I will also vote Labour because I'm fed up with the way the press is having a go at him all the time, although if the Lib Dems were the second strongest party in my constituency I would vote tactically for them.


I will vote Boris because of all the nasty comments against him on this forum.I am fed up with it, really upsetting.
Although, if someone dressed as a banana becomes the second strongest party in my constituency I would vote tactically for them.



I don't need Google. I have a Hoddy.


Yatesman
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In Reply To


If that does represent the outlook of the electorate then I would imagine it's because they are not prepared to sign up to a Socialist UK under Labour that would bankrupt the country with their £1.2trillion spending plans and their proposals to throw the borders wide open to all and sundry.


It's incredible how some people just swallow Tory propaganda without without the least bit of questioning.

Yet the Tories have increased the National Debt by nearly £1 trillion in the past decade ... and to what purpose?


This is hilarious!!

Kwarteng asked how much the Tories are going to spend by Sophy Ridge:

"I'm not going to bandy around figures" Car crash TV.

Yet there are people in our midst who actually believe and even quoe what he says. Is it any wonder there is a majority for Brexit when there are such credulous voters. You have to hand it to the Tories though - they know how to get the unthinking masses to vote against their own interests.

https://twitter.com/...462767866580992?s=20


So you agree Tory Austerity policies were warranted and should have been harsher ?

That's a bit of a u-turn for you.

Are you also saying that Labour's spending has no net cost for the country?

Amazing!


Yatesman
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It still amazes me how he got off lightly by not Delivering brexit on 31st October .He never said we only be leaving on 31st October if the opposition parties or his brexit opponents were to fall in line with him, did he?

We will leave 31st October Do or die he said!


This post just shows how out of touch you are and how your thinking is tainted by your extremism.

There isn't a single Leave voter who will hold it against Boris that we didn't Leave the EU on Oct 31. Not one.

Not leaving on Oct 31 will win the Tories this election!!


Towlawtom
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In Reply To
It still amazes me how he got off lightly by not Delivering brexit on 31st October .He never said we only be leaving on 31st October if the opposition parties or his brexit opponents were to fall in line with him, did he?

We will leave 31st October Do or die he said!


This post just shows how out of touch you are and how your thinking is tainted by your extremism.

There isn't a single Leave voter who will hold it against Boris that we didn't Leave the EU on Oct 31. Not one.

Not leaving on Oct 31 will win the Tories this election!!


So he wasn't lying to you then when he said We would leave 31st October, Do or Die!



I need to have the last word, as it always looks as if I am right !


PaulC
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In Reply To

In Reply To
It still amazes me how he got off lightly by not Delivering brexit on 31st October .He never said we only be leaving on 31st October if the opposition parties or his brexit opponents were to fall in line with him, did he?

We will leave 31st October Do or die he said!


This post just shows how out of touch you are and how your thinking is tainted by your extremism.

There isn't a single Leave voter who will hold it against Boris that we didn't Leave the EU on Oct 31. Not one.

Not leaving on Oct 31 will win the Tories this election!!


So he wasn't lying to you then when he said We would leave 31st October, Do or Die!


Tory voters really have passed through the looking glass.

https://twitter.com/...439882842169346?s=21


Yatesman
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In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
It still amazes me how he got off lightly by not Delivering brexit on 31st October .He never said we only be leaving on 31st October if the opposition parties or his brexit opponents were to fall in line with him, did he?

We will leave 31st October Do or die he said!


This post just shows how out of touch you are and how your thinking is tainted by your extremism.

There isn't a single Leave voter who will hold it against Boris that we didn't Leave the EU on Oct 31. Not one.

Not leaving on Oct 31 will win the Tories this election!!


So he wasn't lying to you then when he said We would leave 31st October, Do or Die!


No.

How can you lie about future events?


PaulC
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How can you lie about future events?


By promising to do something on a stated date in the future and not doing so.

Jeez!


leohoenig
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Of course one can lie about future events.

I can say, for example, that "I need new shoes, I will buy them tomorrow". I know that the shop will be closed tomorrow as its a public holiday- so that would be a lie.

For clarity,"I need new shoes" is not a lie. I actually went into a shop last week, but did not see any that I liked and were in the correct size. I may well have to wait until I get back to England.



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Yatesman
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Of course one can lie about future events.

I can say, for example, that "I need new shoes, I will buy them tomorrow". I know that the shop will be closed tomorrow as its a public holiday- so that would be a lie.

For clarity,"I need new shoes" is not a lie. I actually went into a shop last week, but did not see any that I liked and were in the correct size. I may well have to wait until I get back to England.


Boris fully intended to Leave on 31 Oct and developing circumstances outside of his control prevented that.

Therefore not a lie.

You lied the moment you said you would buy shoes so that was a lie in the moment as the conditions disabling you from buying the shoes were already set.

It explains a lot about the people on this forum that such a simple concept escapes them


Yatesman
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In Reply To

How can you lie about future events?


By promising to do something on a stated date in the future and not doing so.

Jeez!


Total Bollox..........as explained to leohoenig


PaulC
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Boris fully intended to Leave on 31 Oct and developing circumstances outside of his control prevented that.

Therefore not a lie.


“No ifs, no buts.”

Are you suggesting Johnson is so stupid he couldn’t foresee what was likely to happen?


hawkwind
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In my case, as a Remainer and Lib Dem, it would seem I'd have an easy time deciding who to vote for. In actuality I'm stuck with the fact that Leave won in 2016 by well over a million votes. I still think Brexit is a serious mistake with negative consequences including the possibility of it leading to the break up of the UK, but it would be an even worse and dangerous mistake to try to ignore a clear democratic decision by the electorate.

.


I have a question for you. Imagine a new government held a referendum with a straightforward question: 'Do you agree to the government raising basic rate income tax to 25%?'. Two answers 'Yes' or 'No'. In the campaign some government ministers speak for, others against. Those in favour promise to spend 125% of extra money raised on the NHS, 50% on schools, 50% on police, 25% on transport, and with what's left over construct more youth facilities. You support the additional spends but you can add up to 100 and in any case you think there are fairer ways to finance these improvements. You thus vote no. Yes wins 52-48 on an impressive turnout of 90% of the electorate. So projecting forward to after this particular referendum here is my question to you. Do you think the government should raise basic rate income tax to 25% - (a) Yes (b) No (c) Depends I haven't given you enough information?


dottirofhod
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In Reply To

I will also vote Labour because I'm fed up with the way the press is having a go at him all the time, although if the Lib Dems were the second strongest party in my constituency I would vote tactically for them.


I will vote Boris because of all the nasty comments against him on this forum.I am fed up with it, really upsetting.
Although, if someone dressed as a banana becomes the second strongest party in my constituency I would vote tactically for them.



Before I vote I would like to see some polls about which leader is abused the most.

But again if anybody is wearing a bandana I may tactically vote for them.

If only voting was as easy as picking the biggest idiot on here, bye 'Snowflakes'.



July 1, 2019 to June 30,2020 = 127 / 107 / 20 / 5 x 0-0's. (You know my rules) @ 07 / 12 / 2019 . Belgium top 5 tiers 0-0-0-(0-1-0)-(0-1-1-2) / Holland top 4 tiers - 0-0-0-(0-0) / Lux top 2 tiers 0 -2. England top 10 tiers - 0. Now blogging at https://eccentricity.video.blog/



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In Reply To

In Reply To

I will also vote Labour because I'm fed up with the way the press is having a go at him all the time, although if the Lib Dems were the second strongest party in my constituency I would vote tactically for them.


I will vote Boris because of all the nasty comments against him on this forum.I am fed up with it, really upsetting.
Although, if someone dressed as a banana becomes the second strongest party in my constituency I would vote tactically for them.



Before I vote I would like to see some polls about which leader is abused the most.

But again if anybody is wearing a bandana I may tactically vote for them.

If only voting was as easy as picking the biggest idiot on here, bye 'Snowflakes'.


If Labour wants to win this election they must keep Emily SnootyBerry ( And Dianne Abbacus for that matter) OFF the TV

She wants to spend £200billion on a Trident system Labour would never use and negotiate a Withdrawal deal with the EU that is Remain in all but name and then offer that to the nation in a 2nd vote.

She snarls, glares and gurns, raises her voice and gets in a piss whb put under scrutiny........Car Crash TV...Brilliant!!

Well done Piers and Suzanne for exposing the hypocrisy that underscores Labour's position on these matters.


PaulC
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Boris Johnson perfectly assessed by Owen Jones in one and a half minutes.

https://twitter.com/...508640407334918?s=20


007Dale
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Massive blow to Labour and the Remoaners:

Brexit Party to stand aside in 317 seats won by Tories at the last election.

All resources to be poured into challenging Labour.


Part-Timer
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It still amazes me how he got off lightly by not Delivering brexit on 31st October .He never said we only be leaving on 31st October if the opposition parties or his brexit opponents were to fall in line with him, did he?

We will leave 31st October Do or die he said!


This post just shows how out of touch you are and how your thinking is tainted by your extremism.

There isn't a single Leave voter who will hold it against Boris that we didn't Leave the EU on Oct 31. Not one.

Not leaving on Oct 31 will win the Tories this election!!


So he wasn't lying to you then when he said We would leave 31st October, Do or Die!

There is a difference between lying and being wrong. Lying is not a good practice for a Prime Minister. Being wrong is not much, if any, better.


TroubleAtMill
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Nov 11, 2019, 3:33 PM

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Massive blow to Labour and the Remoaners:

Brexit Party to stand aside in 317 seats won by Tories at the last election.

All resources to be poured into challenging Labour.

Make No difference in most of those seats
---------------------------------------

EDIT: Reply below wasn't showing when first posted

Make No difference in most of those seats. It may save a few seats.

Farage would have done more damage if he'd stood candidates down in Labour held, Tory 2nd marginals, where the Brexit party will split the vote still if it doesn't withdraw more candidates.

Also him saying vote Conservative could backfire on him and push some left leaning leavers back to Labour.

Overall probably helps the Conservatives but not by as much as many may think, in my opinion.







(This post was edited by TroubleAtMill on Nov 11, 2019, 3:37 PM)


Towlawtom
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Nov 11, 2019, 4:20 PM

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Massive blow to Labour and the Remoaners:

Brexit Party to stand aside in 317 seats won by Tories at the last election.

All resources to be poured into challenging Labour.


Will totally backfire. People will see that an extreme right wing party will now be backed by a more extremer Right wing party.



I need to have the last word, as it always looks as if I am right !


Chris1963
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Nov 11, 2019, 4:45 PM

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In Reply To
Massive blow to Labour and the Remoaners:

Brexit Party to stand aside in 317 seats won by Tories at the last election.

All resources to be poured into challenging Labour.


Will totally backfire. People will see that an extreme right wing party will now be backed by a more extremer Right wing party.


Unfortunately there are a lot of people who like voting for such parties. It's called 'populism' and there has been plenty of it throughout Europe over the last few years, arguably stoked by the fallout from 9/11 and the wars that followed it.


Ronsdog
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Nov 11, 2019, 5:40 PM

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In Reply To

In Reply To
Massive blow to Labour and the Remoaners:

Brexit Party to stand aside in 317 seats won by Tories at the last election.

All resources to be poured into challenging Labour.


Will totally backfire. People will see that an extreme right wing party will now be backed by a more extremer Right wing party.


Unfortunately there are a lot of people who like voting for such parties. It's called 'populism' and there has been plenty of it throughout Europe over the last few years, arguably stoked by the fallout from 9/11 and the wars that followed it.


Populism is a vague term which generally refers to the general populations political aspirations when pitted against powerful elites.

It is by no means only the preserve of right wing parties and encompasses far left parties in Italy and Venezuela alongside our own Labour Party.

As far as the UK is concerned what could represent the people's feelings, or populism, better than the current Labour Party's slogan......FOR THE MANY NOT THE FEW. ?


(This post was edited by Ronsdog on Nov 11, 2019, 5:48 PM)


PaulC
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Nov 11, 2019, 5:45 PM

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In Reply To

In Reply To
Massive blow to Labour and the Remoaners:

Brexit Party to stand aside in 317 seats won by Tories at the last election.

All resources to be poured into challenging Labour.


Will totally backfire. People will see that an extreme right wing party will now be backed by a more extremer Right wing party.


Unfortunately there are a lot of people who like voting for such parties. It's called 'populism' and there has been plenty of it throughout Europe over the last few years, arguably stoked by the fallout from 9/11 and the wars that followed it.


I was listening to WATO today and people in Boston were being interviewed.

My god, there are a lot of thick Tory-voting Brexiteers down there, fed on the garbage dished out to them by the English Tory press.


Ronsdog
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Nov 11, 2019, 5:52 PM

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Re: [Chris1963] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

 
If the currently Marxist led Labour Party is not guilty of populism with their clarion call of .... FOR THE MANY, NOT THE FEW.... then what is?


jon b
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Nov 11, 2019, 5:53 PM

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Massive blow to Labour and the Remoaners:

Brexit Party to stand aside in 317 seats won by Tories at the last election.

All resources to be poured into challenging Labour.


Looks like a big boost for the Tories.

And there'll be more pressure on the Brexit Party to step aside in other Tory target seats. Perhaps Farage will eventually settle for the peerage that's been dangled in front of him as a consolation prize.

But there's still plenty of time for something unexpected to crop up and throw a spanner in the works.

Polling isn't tomorrow.

.


paulh66
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Nov 11, 2019, 6:19 PM

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In my case, as a Remainer and Lib Dem, it would seem I'd have an easy time deciding who to vote for. In actuality I'm stuck with the fact that Leave won in 2016 by well over a million votes. I still think Brexit is a serious mistake with negative consequences including the possibility of it leading to the break up of the UK, but it would be an even worse and dangerous mistake to try to ignore a clear democratic decision by the electorate.

.


Easily reconciled. Now we're all getting to make another democratic decision but this time with (1) some degree of benefit of hindsight and (2) the chance to scrutinise how leave/remain will interplay with the full suite of other policies put forward by each party.

So, whatever anyone's preference and whatever the outcome of the election, nobody can dispute that the electorate will have been able to make a more informed decision this time than three years ago. Though dogma will, of course, still be a factor.


Towlawtom
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Nov 11, 2019, 6:39 PM

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Ex-Tory MP Nick Boles not holding back on Boris Johnson:

"A compulsive liar who has betrayed every single person he has ever had dealings with: every woman who has ever loved him, every member of his family, every friend, every colleague, every employee, every constituent."



I need to have the last word, as it always looks as if I am right !


Yatesman
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Nov 11, 2019, 7:26 PM

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Massive blow to Labour and the Remoaners:

Brexit Party to stand aside in 317 seats won by Tories at the last election.

All resources to be poured into challenging Labour.


Looks like a big boost for the Tories.

And there'll be more pressure on the Brexit Party to step aside in other Tory target seats. Perhaps Farage will eventually settle for the peerage that's been dangled in front of him as a consolation prize.

But there's still plenty of time for something unexpected to crop up and throw a spanner in the works.

Polling isn't tomorrow.

.


Would be ironic and hypocritial seeing as The Brexit Party ( rightly imo) want to abolish the HoLords!


Yatesman
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Nov 11, 2019, 7:32 PM

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In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Massive blow to Labour and the Remoaners:

Brexit Party to stand aside in 317 seats won by Tories at the last election.

All resources to be poured into challenging Labour.


Will totally backfire. People will see that an extreme right wing party will now be backed by a more extremer Right wing party.


Unfortunately there are a lot of people who like voting for such parties. It's called 'populism' and there has been plenty of it throughout Europe over the last few years, arguably stoked by the fallout from 9/11 and the wars that followed it.


I was listening to WATO today and people in Boston were being interviewed.

My god, there are a lot of thick Tory-voting Brexiteers down there, fed on the garbage dished out to them by the English Tory press.


How did we ever permit them to have the vote??

It's just not fair!


Yatesman
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Nov 11, 2019, 8:11 PM

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Boris Johnson perfectly assessed by Owen Jones in one and a half minutes.

https://twitter.com/...508640407334918?s=20


So you're saying vote Brexit Party then?

Tbh Owen Jones is a humourless gimp and is as annoying as f***.

I wooulld imagine that if you are a Leave voter and your conundrum is whether to vote for a PM who tells a few minor Porkie Pies or vote for any number of Political Parties who tell blatant whopping great lies ( Tuition Fees U-Turn , Bedroom Tax U-Turn, Support for Austerity, Once in a generation IndyRef, ) and intend to deny you your democratic rights then I guess Boris seems a reasonable choice because honouring Democracy goes to the very heart of our Culture and Society.

Whereas everyone has told a wee white lie or twa!

Personally, I'm too realistic and honest to expect our politicians to Walk on Water be Whiter Than White or to Never Make a Mistake.......

But I do expect them to Honour a legal Democratic Plebiscite.


007Dale
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Nov 11, 2019, 8:11 PM

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I was listening to WATO today and people in Boston were being interviewed.

My god, there are a lot of thick Tory-voting Brexiteers down there, fed on the garbage dished out to them by the English Tory press.


It’s a shame that you feel the need to insult Brexit voters. I’d suggest anyone needing to belittle people like that has already lost the argument.


steve walker
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Nov 11, 2019, 8:11 PM

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I was listening to WATO today and people in Boston were being interviewed.

My god, there are a lot of thick Tory-voting Brexiteers down there, fed on the garbage dished out to them by the English Tory press.



This sort of language really doesn't help you make a point. Not everyone that disagrees with you is "thick".

Nor does Yatesman using silly made up names for politicians. I mean "Emily SnootyBerry" "Dianne Abbacus". Really.... is that supposed to be funny?

Come on people we can do better than this in our General Election discussion surely? We don't have to set the bar as low as the standards in the House of Commons, we can surely have an intelligent debate on the subject of an election without going down to that level?


steve walker
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Nov 11, 2019, 8:18 PM

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STOP using asterixis and an x to get around the swear filter. You do it multiple times and I'm not going to warn you again.

I don't have an under age policy on forum registration please bear that in mind.

Thanks


Yatesman
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Nov 11, 2019, 8:56 PM

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STOP using asterixis and an x to get around the swear filter. You do it multiple times and I'm not going to warn you again.

I don't have an under age policy on forum registration please bear that in mind.

Thanks


Sorry......but sometimes a good Anglo-Saxon perjoritive just really hits the mark.


Yatesman
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Nov 11, 2019, 8:57 PM

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In Reply To


I was listening to WATO today and people in Boston were being interviewed.

My god, there are a lot of thick Tory-voting Brexiteers down there, fed on the garbage dished out to them by the English Tory press.



This sort of language really doesn't help you make a point. Not everyone that disagrees with you is "thick".

Nor does Yatesman using silly made up names for politicians. I mean "Emily SnootyBerry" "Dianne Abbacus". Really.... is that supposed to be funny?

Come on people we can do better than this in our General Election discussion surely? We don't have to set the bar as low as the standards in the House of Commons, we can surely have an intelligent debate on the subject of an election without going down to that level?


I thought it was bloomin' hilarious!


Yatesman
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Nov 11, 2019, 9:05 PM

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I was listening to WATO today and people in Boston were being interviewed.

My god, there are a lot of thick Tory-voting Brexiteers down there, fed on the garbage dished out to them by the English Tory press.


It’s a shame that you feel the need to insult Brexit voters. I’d suggest anyone needing to belittle people like that has already lost the argument.


Exactement, Monsieur, C'est vrai ca !

Mais, Il y a partisans de Brexit a travers le pays.

Pas seulement dans l'est.


PaulC
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Nov 11, 2019, 9:07 PM

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Post #171 of 596 (301 views)
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In Reply To

I was listening to WATO today and people in Boston were being interviewed.

My god, there are a lot of thick Tory-voting Brexiteers down there, fed on the garbage dished out to them by the English Tory press.


It’s a shame that you feel the need to insult Brexit voters. I’d suggest anyone needing to belittle people like that has already lost the argument.




Listen and weep at their stupidity

“I’m voting out, is that what it’s about?
“No, it’s a General Election
“Oh, I don’t vote in them ones. I stay out of them.”

“I can’t stand Jeremy Corbyn, he hates the country”

“Deputy leader of the Labour party, resigned, former Labour MP told people not to vote Conservative, Rees-Mogg was talking about Grenfell, .... did you hear any of that?

1st person “I’ve got grandkids, I don’t really watch telly”

2nd person “ No, no, not really heard anything of that. No.”
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000b4qm
30 mins

The most pro-Brexit town in the UK.


jon b
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Nov 11, 2019, 9:17 PM

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Perhaps Farage will eventually settle for the peerage that's been dangled in front of him as a consolation prize.


Would be ironic and hypocritial seeing as The Brexit Party ( rightly imo) want to abolish the HoLords!


I'm also in favour of abolition of the House of Lords or at the very least extreme reform and drastic reduction in numbers. Too many of those currently collecting their attendance fees are ex MPs who were pretty useless (or worse) when in the Commons but could only be prised out of their HofC seats by the bribe of elevation to the Lords.

I suspect Farage's opposition to it is fuelled by it being, in his words, "stuffed full of remainers". I think he also realises it has become little more than a pleasant debating society/club for has-beens and nonentities.

.


steve walker
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Nov 11, 2019, 9:24 PM

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In Reply To
STOP using asterixis and an x to get around the swear filter. You do it multiple times and I'm not going to warn you again.

I don't have an under age policy on forum registration please bear that in mind.

Thanks


Sorry......but sometimes a good Anglo-Saxon perjoritive just really hits the mark.



Okay you really don't understand what I am saying do you if that even was an apology. If it was I don't want an apology... I want you to stop doing it.

There are parents who let their young kids access here because it's a non league football forum which should be a pretty safe place to discuss non league football. They don't expect their kids to be reading your "Anglo-Saxon" in this section. It wouldn't be tolerated anywhere else on this forum if it was reported.

I'm not being over precious on this.... kids hear language that is not appropriate all the time I am sure... no reason to extend that here and you keep doing it so please stop, that's all I am asking.

Thanks... Steve


steve walker
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Nov 11, 2019, 9:32 PM

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In Reply To

In Reply To

I was listening to WATO today and people in Boston were being interviewed.

My god, there are a lot of thick Tory-voting Brexiteers down there, fed on the garbage dished out to them by the English Tory press.


It’s a shame that you feel the need to insult Brexit voters. I’d suggest anyone needing to belittle people like that has already lost the argument.




Listen and weep at their stupidity

“I’m voting out, is that what it’s about?
“No, it’s a General Election
“Oh, I don’t vote in them ones. I stay out of them.”

“I can’t stand Jeremy Corbyn, he hates the country”

“Deputy leader of the Labour party, resigned, former Labour MP told people not to vote Conservative, Rees-Mogg was talking about Grenfell, .... did you hear any of that?

1st person “I’ve got grandkids, I don’t really watch telly”

2nd person “ No, no, not really heard anything of that. No.”
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000b4qm
30 mins

The most pro-Brexit town in the UK.



No PaulC listen and weep that you think you are so much better. I'm sure all sides can come up with voxpops like this if they want to.

You don't know how that was edited, you don't know how many people they interviewed that didn't get included.

I'm going to give one last appeal. Please lets have an intelligent discussion thread on the subject of a General Election. If we can't then lets just stick to the football.

Thanks... Steve


jon b
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Nov 11, 2019, 9:32 PM

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In Reply To

I was listening to WATO today and people in Boston were being interviewed.


The most pro-Brexit town in the UK.


What struck me was how little events in the Westminster bubble seemed to register with them. The happenings that excite the political reporters don't even get noticed by them.

At heart it seems to be that they reckon they and their futures and well being have been ignored by Westminster for decades and Cameron gave them the opportunity to show how dissatisfied they were with their lot in life.

My local constituency of North East Derbyshire and the nearby constituency of Mansfield fell to the Tories in the 2017 GE. Those are seats that had been solid Labour for many decades. Their story of turning from Labour could well be repeated in many 2016 Leave voting areas.

.


Yatesman
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Nov 11, 2019, 9:47 PM

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Re: [PaulC] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

I was listening to WATO today and people in Boston were being interviewed.

My god, there are a lot of thick Tory-voting Brexiteers down there, fed on the garbage dished out to them by the English Tory press.


It’s a shame that you feel the need to insult Brexit voters. I’d suggest anyone needing to belittle people like that has already lost the argument.




Listen and weep at their stupidity

“I’m voting out, is that what it’s about?
“No, it’s a General Election
“Oh, I don’t vote in them ones. I stay out of them.”

“I can’t stand Jeremy Corbyn, he hates the country”

“Deputy leader of the Labour party, resigned, former Labour MP told people not to vote Conservative, Rees-Mogg was talking about Grenfell, .... did you hear any of that?

1st person “I’ve got grandkids, I don’t really watch telly”

2nd person “ No, no, not really heard anything of that. No.”
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000b4qm
30 mins

The most pro-Brexit town in the UK.


Whether you call them 'thick' or highlight their alleged 'stupidity'

It amounts to the same.........you are saying nothing of interest and adding nothing to the debate..
You're just venting your spleen against your political opponents
It's my experience that those people understand far better the issues that negatively affect their culture , their lives and their livlihoods than you give them credit for and it's that that hones their voting instincts.
The middle class 'intellectuals' , with the luxury of wealth and distance can pontificate about the dogmatic or ideological purity of a given political stance whilst being suitably insulated from its real life consequences., e.g. unfettered immigration,
Then they can haughtily condemn those too stupid to recognise the purity of their clever, sanctimonious political views.
They can afford to vote in a manner that impacts them minimally but the hoi polloi massively.


jon b
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Nov 11, 2019, 10:12 PM

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Post #177 of 596 (958 views)
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we care about how our real lives are being affected by this current Government whose only promise seems to be to be undo all the damage they have done in the past 10 years.


Very sorry to hear about your wife's ill health Steve, and I share your concerns about the NHS and public services.

It's intensely annoying that the slogan "Britain deserves better" is being trotted out by the gang who've slashed funding for health, education, welfare, local govt etc.since 2010. Unfortunately, they're dodging a debate on their record by trying to focus as much as possible on Brexit whilst discovering an orchard of magical money trees just in time for the GE.

My fears for the NHS mirror your own. Our son works in a hospital department constantly under severe stress from under funding and shortage of staff. His health has been affected by the pressure. Not helped by his wife having at short notice this summer to re-apply for her job at a sixth form college because of funding cuts. She wasn't reappointed despite being praised in a recent Ofsted inspection for outstanding work. Fortunately, she managed to redeploy to another department, other colleagues found themselves out on the street.

Sadly, I think Corbyn and Co. failed to grab the opportunity when Theresa May approached them desperate for their support earlier in the year. They could have squeezed out of her protection for workers rights and for the environment in exchange for their support for a soft Brexit. The ERG would have gone into meltdown but a workable deal could have been achieved and the Tories would still have been vulnerable in 2022 GE. Instead of which we've ended up with a leader no-one can trust (ask the DUP) and a Brexit GE.

Johnson and Co have managed to scare me stiff with their breezy talk of a No Deal Brexit. My wife survives, though in constant pain, due to a long list of daily medications. The prospect of any interruption in supply of them is so frightening that we never discuss the possibility.

I don't see any easy way forward out of the current mess and there are a whole host of dangers with whatever direction we take.

.


steve walker
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Nov 11, 2019, 10:34 PM

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I think if Theresa May nor even Cameron had approached Corbyn & Co far earlier then we wouldn't have been in this mess. When she did it was far too late as the stances were far too entrenched.

I also think that Labour are quite right in focussing on workers rights and ensuring that we adhere to current EU standards. It's true to say that in many aspects our workers rights are actually above the minimum required by the EU. You don't need EU permission to enhance those rights, there is only one reason why you would want to disengage from that standard and that is to reduce them. There is no other reason.

We have a Johnson/ Farage / Trump alliance now that wants to move us more to a USA style economy. If people vote for that then I hope they know what they are letting themselves in for. I'm an old guy it won't affect me too much... for my grandkids that have no say... well I did what I could.


PaulC
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Nov 11, 2019, 10:55 PM

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Massive blow to Labour and the Remoaners:

Brexit Party to stand aside in 317 seats won by Tories at the last election.

All resources to be poured into challenging Labour.


Well, just fancy that:

“Nigel Farage claimed he was offered a peerage 48 hours before blinking first in his Brexit stand off with Boris Johnson .

The Brexit Party chief was forced to scrap plans to stand candidates in hundreds of seats amid mounting warnings he risked scuppering EU withdrawal.”

He claimed he was offered a peerage on Friday night – just two days before his screeching U-turn boosted the Prime Minister.
Daily Mirror


(This post was edited by PaulC on Nov 11, 2019, 11:03 PM)


007Dale
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Nov 12, 2019, 5:50 AM

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Brexit Party to stand aside in 317 seats won by Tories at the last election.

All resources to be poured into challenging Labour.


There are some interesting constituencies where the Tories didn’t win in 2017 and therefore (as it stands) the Brexit Party could still impact the result.

One example is North Norfolk, which has been one of the very few seats the Lib Dem’s managed to hold onto during the public backlash in 2015.

Norman Lamb is standing down, who was a very popular local MP, who’d managed to ‘dig himself in’ pretty well and overcome national politics. However, North Norfolk voted 59% in favour of Leave in 2016, but voted to retain Norman Lamb 48-42 (Lib-Con) in 2017, without UKIP standing.

With the popular incumbent standing down this could well have come into play for Tories again, given the large leave vote, however adding a Brexit candidate will no-doubt impact on that.

Given there is a genuine chance for Tory victory over Lib Dem’s in NN (and probably similar in the south west), I wonder if there could be further withdrawals from the Brexit party in the coming days.


Yatesman
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Nov 12, 2019, 7:08 AM

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Post #181 of 596 (823 views)
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I think if Theresa May nor even Cameron had approached Corbyn & Co far earlier then we wouldn't have been in this mess. When she did it was far too late as the stances were far too entrenched.

I also think that Labour are quite right in focussing on workers rights and ensuring that we adhere to current EU standards. It's true to say that in many aspects our workers rights are actually above the minimum required by the EU. You don't need EU permission to enhance those rights, there is only one reason why you would want to disengage from that standard and that is to reduce them. There is no other reason.

We have a Johnson/ Farage / Trump alliance now that wants to move us more to a USA style economy. If people vote for that then I hope they know what they are letting themselves in for. I'm an old guy it won't affect me too much... for my grandkids that have no say... well I did what I could.


I'm not sure I buy in to the notion that the Tories are poised to stomp on Workers' rights.

As you say, Employment Law in the UK is far superior to EU requirements and if the Tories had wished to, have had a decade to reduce that. Therefore your claim that to disengage from the EU can only mean a desire to reduce standards is wholly false.

What troubles you about a US style economy?

There is no indication that is to be our future model so why do you believe that?


007Dale
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Nov 12, 2019, 8:33 AM

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Re: [007Dale] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

 The Brexit Party will also stand in the (traditional) Tory safe seat of Buckingham. Not part of the 317 as it’s the former seat of John Bercow.

Here they are unlikely to make much impact on the result in a marginally Remain (51%) constituency. The last time this seat was contested (2005) properly, the Tories won with 58% of the vote - a majority of 38%.

However, the Brexit party won’t contest the seat of Change UK MP, Anna Soubry. Obviously won as a Tory in 2017, this is a leave voting area (55%).

The seat was won last time with a majority of 860 over Labour. The Liberals will not be standing, but Greens / Change split the Remain vote.

Brexit not standing here is a massive blow for Labour and Change UK. Mrs Soubry will need to be one hell of a good local MP to retain this seat, but it’s possible she picks up Tory Remain voters to split the blue vote and let in Labour.


007Dale
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Nov 12, 2019, 8:47 AM

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Re: [007Dale] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

One more to consider; Ashfield. They voted 70% Leave in 2016. Last won by the Tories in a 1977 by-Election, this has long been held by Labour.

In 2017, labour won by 400 votes over Tories. However, UKIP took 1,800 votes in that election.

In 2015, labour won by 9,000 votes over the Tories, when UKIP got 10,000 votes.

Between 2015 and 2017 UKIP votes went Tory, so the assumption might be; Brexit Party standing here is bad for the Tories. However, you could argue the 1,800 who voted UKIP in 2017 could never bring themselves to vote Tory. Therefore does Brexit standing here help the Tories by taking Labour votes? Difficult to say, but it’s possible.


TroubleAtMill
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The ruder people on this thread, put people off being persuaded to their argument.
Put a reasoned argument, you have a better chance of persuading me an undecided floating voter to your argument, rather than put me off your party and position.
Currently we unfortunately getting to the ludicrous position where the most coherent policies and arguments being are being put forward by the Monster Raving Loony Party, CoolFrown


dottirofhod
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Nov 12, 2019, 10:18 AM

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Currently we unfortunately getting to the ludicrous position where the most coherent policies and arguments being are being put forward by the Monster Raving Loony Party, CoolFrown



Vote for insanity.

Just love their manicfesto A-Z policies.
Policies A-Z
The A-Z of the OMRLP Manicfesto Just a sample of what you’d get by voting for insanity – you know it makes sense!
A.AIR bags will be fitted to the Stock Exchange immediately, ready for the next crash.
B. BRITAIN will exit Europe and join the Duchy of Cornwall to benefit from tax exemptions.
C. CAPITAL Punishment will be opposed on the grounds that it is unfair to Londoners.
D. DATA will be secured, placed in a brown bag and hidden in the PM’s socks and pants drawer.
E. Education. All University Tuition fees for women would be free as we are strong believers in Female intuition. (Due to gender equality laws we would include males as well)
F. FRIVOLOUS Fraud Office setup to inspect fraud too silly for the Serious Fraud Office.
G. GREYHOUND racing will be banned to prevent the country going to the dogs.
H. HALF the grey squirrels will be painted red to increase the red squirrel population.
I. INNOCENT prisoners will be released in order to reduce prison overcrowding.
J. JOBSEEKERS will be made to stand two abreast in order to halve dole queues.
K. KIDS will be made to sit closer together on smaller desks in to reduce school class sizes.
L. LONDON Marathon free to anyone finishing in sub-2 hours wearing large clown’s shoes.
M. MEGA carwash will be created by punching holes in the roof of the Channel Tunnel.
N. NATIONAL debt will be cleared by putting it all on our credit card.
O. OAPS will qualify for a Summer Ice Lolly Allowance if temperatures exceed 70 degrees.
P. PUDDLES deeper than 3 inches will be marked by a yellow plastic duck.
Q. QUITTERS will be encouraged not to start in the first place to improve their self esteem.
R. REGULATIONS concerning car boot sales will be relaxed to permit selling of all car parts.
S.STAMP duty will be cancelled as stamps are expensive enough without having to pay duty.
T.TERRORISTS will be made to wear Bells and Horns so we know where they are.
U.UNRULY teenagers will be superglued together as if you can’t beat them, join them.
V. VEHICLES will be fitted with bungy ropes in order to save fuel on the return journey.
W. WIND farms will be created nationwide, where breaking wind will be encouraged.
X. X-RAY machines will be manned by a skeleton staff.
Y. YELLOW lines will be painted where you can park instead of where you can’t to save money.
Z. ZEBRA crossings will be made permissible to all animals wishing to cross the road.



July 1, 2019 to June 30,2020 = 127 / 107 / 20 / 5 x 0-0's. (You know my rules) @ 07 / 12 / 2019 . Belgium top 5 tiers 0-0-0-(0-1-0)-(0-1-1-2) / Holland top 4 tiers - 0-0-0-(0-0) / Lux top 2 tiers 0 -2. England top 10 tiers - 0. Now blogging at https://eccentricity.video.blog/



Towlawtom
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Nov 12, 2019, 11:26 AM

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Post #186 of 596 (729 views)
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One more to consider; Ashfield. They voted 70% Leave in 2016. Last won by the Tories in a 1977 by-Election, this has long been held by Labour.

In 2017, labour won by 400 votes over Tories. However, UKIP took 1,800 votes in that election.

In 2015, labour won by 9,000 votes over the Tories, when UKIP got 10,000 votes.

Between 2015 and 2017 UKIP votes went Tory, so the assumption might be; Brexit Party standing here is bad for the Tories. However, you could argue the 1,800 who voted UKIP in 2017 could never bring themselves to vote Tory. Therefore does Brexit standing here help the Tories by taking Labour votes? Difficult to say, but it’s possible.


Maybe the electorate will consider other things too! Maybe Boris not declaring the floods up North a National Emergency.

Would he have done the same if they had occurred in The Surrey stockbroker heartlands?

Still plenty of time left for further Gaffes and lies from him.



I need to have the last word, as it always looks as if I am right !


prorege
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Nov 12, 2019, 1:35 PM

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Re: [Towlawtom] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Well, here’s my tuppenceworth.

Undecided who to vote for at the moment. I live in what would be described as a Labour / SNP marginal constituency.
So what are my political priorities:

1) Retaining membership of the EU, or failing that membership of the Customs Union with free movement of labour (achieved through a Referendum)
2) A more progressive and extensive taxation system to redistribute wealth and support better public, health and social services
3) Nationalisation of key industries such as the railways
4) Creation of a fully Federal UK with four national parliaments and a national parliament, all elected using a PR system
5) Replacement of the House of Lords with an elected upper chamber

In terms of these priorities the Lib Dems might be an obvious choice. However, under the current system a vote for them is a vote wasted, where I live.

Clearly I will not vote Tory. I never have done and never will. I fail to see how anybody can vote for these charlatans other than the privileged elite.

So that leaves Labour and the SNP. One of them will win my constituency regardless of how I vote. Does it matter which one I vote for?

Plus points about the SNP are mainly related to their performance in Edinburgh, which has been admirable. Their performance at Westminster has been disappointing, to say the least. Ian Blackford is a poor leader and I am surprised that Sturgeon hasn’t replaced him. The SNP’s activists, both on line and in the real world, annoy me intensely with their relentless selective use of facts and repetitive arguments. They seem to think the electorate are idiots who are unable to think for themselves.

Plus points about Labour, at Westminster, are hard to identify. The party needs greater clarity in its approach to Brexit. Fudging the issue in the hope of not alienating some voters is not helpful. Some of the backbenchers have impressed me but I doubt if they will flourish under the current leadership.

My general satisfaction with the SNP performance at Holyrood might be a reason for supporting independence and therefore voting SNP. I assume that post independence the SNP would simply become the National Party following a centre left agenda and cutting loose the more extreme factions. However, much as I have been alienated by the circus of Westminster in recent years, I am yet to be convinced of the economic arguments for independence. I find it hard to reconcile the view of Scotland as an oil-rich country with the SNP’s vision of an eco-friendly environmental utopia.
The possibility of a Labour / SNP alliance to keep the Tories out of power has some attractions. However, I am far from convinced that they will win enough seats between them to achieve this. Between them they will sweep the board in Scotland but I fear for Labour in England. It would be great if the Lib-Dems would join such a progressive Alliance but they will not do so. I believe that Labour and the SNP should formalise an alliance and campaign on the basis of a coalition government, with or without Lib Dem involvement. Their platform should be that if in government they would:

1) Commit to a Scottish independence referendum within the life of the Parliament
2) Commit to implement a PR voting system by the time of the next Parliament
3) Implement broadly left of centre social and economic policies
4) Re-negotiate an exit deal with the EU on the basis of remaining in the Customs Union and retaining free movement of labour, and put it to a referendum

So, back to the question – Labour or SNP? Which is the more likely to lead to a policy platform outlined above. I will make up my own mind in due course and the harder people and parties try to persuade me one way or the other with selective propaganda the more likely I am to oppose their arguments.


007Dale
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Nov 12, 2019, 2:21 PM

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Post #188 of 596 (673 views)
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Interesting read Prorege, good to get insight into someone’s thought process.

I think this election, more than ever, will be one where tactical voting comes into play. People will vote in a tactical way, to increase the chances of (what they consider) the most important issue to them.

You mention not voting Lib Dem as they can’t win, so you take a pragmatic view about who next best can deliver what you want - I think more people will do this.

For me, the biggest issue in this election is not allowing Corbyn into Number 10. As a brexiteer, I would even vote Lib Dem if I thought it stopped Corbyn, because, whilst I want Brexit delivered, I really don’t won’t the country trashed by Labour (& selfishly my personal circumstances to worsen).

Fortunately for me, I can have my cake and eat it, at this election, where a vote for the Tories, keeps Labour out.

What I like about tactical voting is that is shows our electorate are considered enough to see the bigger picture and vote in a way that delivers the outcome they want, not blithely vote down party lines for historic or social reasons.


Chris1963
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Nov 12, 2019, 3:42 PM

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Post #189 of 596 (628 views)
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Ian Blackford is a poor leader and I am surprised that Sturgeon hasn’t replaced him.


Is Ian Blackford actually the leader of the SNP? I've never even heard of him. Every time I turn on the TV, I see Nicola Sturgeon being interviewed by the BBC!


PaulC
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Nov 12, 2019, 4:59 PM

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Post #190 of 596 (580 views)
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In Reply To

Ian Blackford is a poor leader and I am surprised that Sturgeon hasn’t replaced him.


Is Ian Blackford actually the leader of the SNP? I've never even heard of him. Every time I turn on the TV, I see Nicola Sturgeon being interviewed by the BBC!


Blackford is the leader of the Westminster group of MPs. That is all.

Sturgeon is the SNP leader.

Prorege means he’s surprised Sturgeon hasn’t replaced Blackford with someone else. I’m not sure that’s within her gift.


(This post was edited by PaulC on Nov 12, 2019, 5:02 PM)


steve walker
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Nov 12, 2019, 8:02 PM

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Post #191 of 596 (512 views)
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I'm not sure I buy in to the notion that the Tories are poised to stomp on Workers' rights.

As you say, Employment Law in the UK is far superior to EU requirements and if the Tories had wished to, have had a decade to reduce that. Therefore your claim that to disengage from the EU can only mean a desire to reduce standards is wholly false.

What troubles you about a US style economy?

There is no indication that is to be our future model so why do you believe that?



It's a fairly obvious point in that if you want to disengage from current EU standards on workers rights then in the long term you are not looking to improve them are you? You can improve them at will without EU approval. These are basic things such as holiday entitlement and maternity rights amongst many others. So it really isn't "wholly false" now but opens the door in the future, a door which will no doubt be walked through.

What troubles me about a US style economy is that everything has to be paid for individually. Private Insurance is needed if you become ill, I don't think it's a route we want to go down and don't get me started on the America First climate change reversal by Trump

Why do I believe that? Are you kidding? Johnson + Farage + his best mate Trump all working together and you don't think we are Americas next top model? I don't want to go to that place.


007Dale
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Nov 12, 2019, 8:51 PM

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Re: [steve walker] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

YouGov have released the first poll since the Brexit Party announcement:

Conservative 42% (+3%)
Labour 28% (+2%)
Lib Dem 15% (-2%)
Brexit 4% (-6%)
Green 4% (-)
SNP 3% (-1%)

Tory Majority 14% (+2%)


(This post was edited by 007Dale on Nov 12, 2019, 8:52 PM)


Towlawtom
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Nov 12, 2019, 9:35 PM

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Re: [007Dale] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

And From Survation taken today who were perhaps the most accurate pollsters in 2017

CON: 35% (+1)
LAB: 29% (+3)
LDEM: 17% (-2)
BREX: 10% (-2)
GRN: 1% (-)

Not looking so good for the Tories and further bad news for them.
Many Labour leavers state that Brexit is not their top priority.



I need to have the last word, as it always looks as if I am right !


Yatesman
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Nov 12, 2019, 9:47 PM

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Post #194 of 596 (441 views)
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In Reply To

In Reply To


I'm not sure I buy in to the notion that the Tories are poised to stomp on Workers' rights.

As you say, Employment Law in the UK is far superior to EU requirements and if the Tories had wished to, have had a decade to reduce that. Therefore your claim that to disengage from the EU can only mean a desire to reduce standards is wholly false.

What troubles you about a US style economy?

There is no indication that is to be our future model so why do you believe that?



It's a fairly obvious point in that if you want to disengage from current EU standards on workers rights then in the long term you are not looking to improve them are you? You can improve them at will without EU approval. These are basic things such as holiday entitlement and maternity rights amongst many others. So it really isn't "wholly false" now but opens the door in the future, a door which will no doubt be walked through.

What troubles me about a US style economy is that everything has to be paid for individually. Private Insurance is needed if you become ill, I don't think it's a route we want to go down and don't get me started on the America First climate change reversal by Trump

Why do I believe that? Are you kidding? Johnson + Farage + his best mate Trump all working together and you don't think we are Americas next top model? I don't want to go to that place.



I don't agree with your analysis. You are just cherry picking aspects of Leaving and making erroneous assumptions based on nothing but your anti-Tory prejudice.

We are leaving the EU so that means EU law is no longer applicable......But that's why we have UK Law and UK law is at least is good as, never worse than and often better than EU law.
And it will continue to evolve and improve and be relevant to this country.........as always!

Your comments on the UK slavishly copying the US economic or environmental model is not really plausible, just Project Fear.


colpic
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Nov 13, 2019, 1:35 AM

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Post #195 of 596 (403 views)
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Re: [Yatesman] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To


I'm not sure I buy in to the notion that the Tories are poised to stomp on Workers' rights.

As you say, Employment Law in the UK is far superior to EU requirements and if the Tories had wished to, have had a decade to reduce that. Therefore your claim that to disengage from the EU can only mean a desire to reduce standards is wholly false.

What troubles you about a US style economy?

There is no indication that is to be our future model so why do you believe that?



It's a fairly obvious point in that if you want to disengage from current EU standards on workers rights then in the long term you are not looking to improve them are you? You can improve them at will without EU approval. These are basic things such as holiday entitlement and maternity rights amongst many others. So it really isn't "wholly false" now but opens the door in the future, a door which will no doubt be walked through.

What troubles me about a US style economy is that everything has to be paid for individually. Private Insurance is needed if you become ill, I don't think it's a route we want to go down and don't get me started on the America First climate change reversal by Trump

Why do I believe that? Are you kidding? Johnson + Farage + his best mate Trump all working together and you don't think we are Americas next top model? I don't want to go to that place.



I don't agree with your analysis. You are just cherry picking aspects of Leaving and making erroneous assumptions based on nothing but your anti-Tory prejudice.

We are leaving the EU so that means EU law is no longer applicable......But that's why we have UK Law and UK law is at least is good as, never worse than and often better than EU law.
And it will continue to evolve and improve and be relevant to this country.........as always!

Your comments on the UK slavishly copying the US economic or environmental model is not really plausible, just Project Fear.


Project Fear - the standard leaver response when they can't put forward a counter argument. Very very boring.

Your comments display a consistently arrogant and condescending attitude. You are harvesting comments to fit your own narrow bias and you simply dismiss the points that you have no answer to with aggressive rhetoric. Given your obvious contempt for fellow posters, I'm at a loss as to why do you even bother to grace us with your presence? I'm sure that there must be another forum somewhere just crying out for an intellect such as yours. (My God, I'm starting to sound like you....)

Having said that, and as I've said before, it would be a shame if you left us. Just try not to be so totally obnoxious, because that really isn't the way to influence people. One day you might have something useful to say, but no one will be reading it in view of the way you conduct yourself. Anyway, all the best etc - I'll check back on this board in a couple of weeks to see if you've come to your senses. Give my regards to Isaac - I assume you are related?
Wink



Where's the 'ignore this poster' button?


Yatesman
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Nov 13, 2019, 7:03 AM

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Post #196 of 596 (374 views)
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Re: [colpic] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I don't think I deserved that...........Your whole post is saying nothing just attacking me!
You ask me not to be obnoxious........by being obnoxious!!

I've never once referred to my intellect to justify my position on a given issue .
That's Paul C territory.
I've consisttently argued against diminishing and denegrating a person's political stance or opinions based on their assumed intelligence or educational attainment........... Although I might have suggested that people who have been to university have lost their ability to think freely and are more prone to dogmatic attitudes based on their percieved superiority..........I might have suggested it's that which pollutes our national political discourse!

As for Project Fear, I suggest the opposite to you that it is the default position of liberals and Remain voters because THEY have no coherent arguments!!

Anyway, I'll try to use more of these things ..
SmileSmileSmileSmileWink


007Dale
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Nov 13, 2019, 7:53 AM

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Post #197 of 596 (359 views)
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Re: [Towlawtom] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
And From Survation taken today who were perhaps the most accurate pollsters in 2017

CON: 35% (+1)
LAB: 29% (+3)
LDEM: 17% (-2)
BREX: 10% (-2)
GRN: 1% (-)

.


It matters little as Polls are notoriously unreliable, but the pedantic in me likes to keep things accurate.

I believe you’re quoting the Survation poll taken 6-8 November, before the Brexit Party announcement.

I was highlighting the poll by YouGov 10-11 November, after the announcement.

As I say, it doesn’t really matter at this stage, things will change.


007Dale
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Nov 13, 2019, 8:20 AM

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Post #198 of 596 (346 views)
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Re: [007Dale] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Farage has had a bit of stick the last few days over his decision to stand down in 317 seats.

He’s suggested that the Tories should stand down in seats that they’ve not won in 100 years to give the Brexit Party a clear run.

If we look at a Brexit top-target of Hartlepool, the results of the 2017 GE;

Labour 22k
Con 14k
UKIP 5k

This would suggest the Tories have more chance of winning this if Brexit stand down, rather than the other way round.

However, it’s likely a large portion of those UKIP voters could never counternance voting Tory.

If we go back to 2015:
Labour 14k
UKIP 11k
Con 8k

This suggests the UKIP collapse had equal impact on both Labour and Tories in 2017.

Therefore there may be some merit in Farage’s argument in this seat that Brexit Party have a better chance of winning.

If the Tories did stand-down here, much would depend on where the Tory-Remain vote went.


windydcfc
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Nov 13, 2019, 9:38 AM

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There’s a lot of Brexit Party members are furious at Farage for pulling them out of those Tory held seats. They are asking for their money back and Farage has said no! You’ve got to ask where the money has gone.
Talking about money, the investigation into Russian interference in our election. Has been shelved until after the election. I wonder why the Tories would want to hide some of their donors? Nothing to do with them being Russian Oligarchs with links to Putin!
The Russians are influencing western elections and referendums.



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


007Dale
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Nov 13, 2019, 9:41 AM

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Re: [007Dale] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

David Gauke has stuck the knife in the Tories this morning. The former Tory Lord Chancellor will stand as an Independent in Remain (54%) backing SW Herts.

It’s an enormous ask to retain his seat, which won’t be contested by the Brexit Party. It’s one of the safest Tory seats in the country:

2017:
Tory: 35k
Labour: 16k
LD: 7k
Green: 2k
UKIP: 1k


philglossop
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Nov 13, 2019, 10:28 AM

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Plymouth could be interesting.

Plymouth Moor View is currently Tory under Johnny Mercer, Armed Forces minister and they've cunningly said they will be rebuilding the main hospital Derriford for the City which is based in his constituency.

Whilst I'm in Sutton and Devonport which is Labour under Luke Pollard. But I have to say theres a lot of disquiet about his actions as our MP. Plymouth voted 60 to leave, whilst Mr Pollard is clearly a remainer. The Tory candidate main banner is Brexit, and I've seen a lot more Tory posters around compared to 2017.

As a local government employee, I'm a natural Labour supporter normally. But I dont like nor trust Mr Pollard, and I dont trust Mr Corbyn full stop. Is that enough to swing my vote Tory for the first time in my life, I dont know. 4 weeks to make my mind up.


007Dale
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Nov 13, 2019, 1:02 PM

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In Reply To
Plymouth could be interesting.

Plymouth Moor View is currently Tory under Johnny Mercer, Armed Forces minister and they've cunningly said they will be rebuilding the main hospital Derriford for the City which is based in his constituency.

Whilst I'm in Sutton and Devonport which is Labour under Luke Pollard. But I have to say theres a lot of disquiet about his actions as our MP. Plymouth voted 60 to leave, whilst Mr Pollard is clearly a remainer. The Tory candidate main banner is Brexit, and I've seen a lot more Tory posters around compared to 2017.

As a local government employee, I'm a natural Labour supporter normally. But I dont like nor trust Mr Pollard, and I dont trust Mr Corbyn full stop. Is that enough to swing my vote Tory for the first time in my life, I dont know. 4 weeks to make my mind up.


That’s promoted me to have a look at PS&D - very interesting.

2017 would suggest not a marginal (Labour maj 6-7k)

But as recently as 2010 it was a 3-way marginal, pre Lib Dem collapse.

From 2015, the strong UKIP vote seemed to move almost entirely to Labour in 2017.

Ann Widdecombe is standing as the Brexit candidate, could they take sufficient votes off labour to let the Tories in again? Particularly in a major Leave area?

Plymouth Moor View is a Con-Labour marginal, with Brexit not standing and the Lib Dem’s nowhere. This seat looks like it will be a straight fight between them, if this one goes Labour, then it’s all over for Johnson.


Towlawtom
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Nov 13, 2019, 4:41 PM

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And the government still don't want 16 or 17 year olds to vote!
But these 2 can!

https://twitter.com/joepike/status/1194300101398806528?s=19



I need to have the last word, as it always looks as if I am right !

(This post was edited by Towlawtom on Nov 13, 2019, 4:43 PM)


leohoenig
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Nov 13, 2019, 5:26 PM

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Re: [Towlawtom] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

In the follow up to that tweet is this piece. I know its wrong, but it is still difficult to argue about

https://www.vox.com/...ocracy-jason-brennan



Fat AND Pompous.
The proof that you can have too much of a good thing
Now blogging at http://www.leohoenig.com



Yatesman
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Nov 13, 2019, 5:46 PM

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In Reply To
In the follow up to that tweet is this piece. I know its wrong, but it is still difficult to argue about

https://www.vox.com/...ocracy-jason-brennan


Its a typical 'blame the voters' piece.

How about a level of competency for politicians before we start taking people's votes away?

It seems more daft that any fool or charlatan can and does, become MP's , MSP's and MEP's.


Yatesman
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Nov 13, 2019, 6:00 PM

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In Reply To
And the government still don't want 16 or 17 year olds to vote!
But these 2 can!

https://twitter.com/joepike/status/1194300101398806528?s=19


The right to vote in a democracy is enshrined in Human Rights legislation as is free speech.

Are you anti-Human Rights as well as anti-Democratic?


007Dale
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Nov 13, 2019, 6:57 PM

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In Reply To
And the government still don't want 16 or 17 year olds to vote!


I’m not sure I fully understand why the Tory Government is suddenly anti-democratic because it won’t let 16 / 17 year olds vote.

Between 1997 and 2010 we had a Labour Government with a huge majority, and they didn’t feel the need to change it.

The majority of countries in the World don’t let children vote, Including most of the European Union members.

Of the few that do allow it, some of those only allow it for local elections. Scotland obviously moving to allow it in their elections.

Personally, I’m not a fan of letting children vote due to the undue influence of parents and teachers.

Perhaps we should have a referendum on lowering the UK voting age :)


PaulC
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Nov 13, 2019, 9:43 PM

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In Reply To
Personally, I’m not a fan of letting children vote due to the undue influence of parents and teachers.


Is it any worse than stupid adults being unduly influenced by the Mail and Express?


(This post was edited by PaulC on Nov 13, 2019, 9:44 PM)


Climate Change
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Nov 13, 2019, 10:02 PM

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In Reply To

In Reply To
Personally, I’m not a fan of letting children vote due to the undue influence of parents and teachers.


Is it any worse than stupid adults being unduly influenced by the Mail and Express?


If you were the parent and teacher, yes.



I don't need Google. I have a Hoddy.


Yatesman
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Nov 13, 2019, 10:17 PM

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In Reply To

In Reply To
Personally, I’m not a fan of letting children vote due to the undue influence of parents and teachers.


Is it any worse than stupid adults being unduly influenced by the Mail and Express?


Total circulation of the Mail and Express ?

Less than 1.5million

In an electorate of 47,900,000 methinks you rather overplay their influence.

Lets just look at that again.....

47,900,000

1,500,000

Hmmmmmm!


jon b
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Nov 13, 2019, 10:34 PM

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In Reply To

Personally, I’m not a fan of letting children vote due to the undue influence of parents and teachers.

Perhaps we should have a referendum on lowering the UK voting age :)


I'm also dubious about the idea of letting 16 & 17 year olds vote. If they're not considered mature enough to be held legally responsible over a contract then how could they be considered mature enough to decide matters of national policy?

.


PaulC
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Nov 13, 2019, 11:19 PM

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In Reply To

In Reply To

Personally, I’m not a fan of letting children vote due to the undue influence of parents and teachers.

Perhaps we should have a referendum on lowering the UK voting age :)


I'm also dubious about the idea of letting 16 & 17 year olds vote. If they're not considered mature enough to be held legally responsible over a contract then how could they be considered mature enough to decide matters of national policy?

.


The evidence from Scotland is that 16-17 year olds took their duties very responsibly. They accessed far more sources of information than any other age group before reaching their decisions.

There are very large numbers of over 18s who lack intelligence, political maturity and commonsense, yet they are allowed to vote. Political maturity is not determined by age alone.


PaulC
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Nov 13, 2019, 11:41 PM

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In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Personally, I’m not a fan of letting children vote due to the undue influence of parents and teachers.


Is it any worse than stupid adults being unduly influenced by the Mail and Express?


Total circulation of the Mail and Express ?

Less than 1.5million

In an electorate of 47,900,000 methinks you rather overplay their influence.

Lets just look at that again.....

47,900,000

1,500,000

Hmmmmmm!

That’s incredibly simplistic.

Print readership
Mail 4m
Express 0.8m

Online readership
Mail 11m

Facebook, Twitter.

Free publicity from BBC and Sky who quote them extensively in their newspaper reviews.


Yatesman
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Nov 14, 2019, 7:05 AM

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In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Personally, I’m not a fan of letting children vote due to the undue influence of parents and teachers.


Is it any worse than stupid adults being unduly influenced by the Mail and Express?


Total circulation of the Mail and Express ?

Less than 1.5million

In an electorate of 47,900,000 methinks you rather overplay their influence.

Lets just look at that again.....

47,900,000

1,500,000

Hmmmmmm!

That’s incredibly simplistic.

Print readership
Mail 4m
Express 0.8m

Online readership
Mail 11m

Facebook, Twitter.

Free publicity from BBC and Sky who quote them extensively in their newspaper reviews.


Incredibly Simplistic should be your tag line..........It's your stock in trade Smile

Here's the circulation figures https://en.wikipedia.org/...ngdom_by_circulation

No doubt most of the online hits are from Snowflakes looking to be offended......

Could you post evidence that the Mail or the Mail Online influences readers any more or more effectively than The Guardian Online for example.

Unlike print papers one would suspect that in the online world a person has access to ALL publications and therefore one should conclude that online readers have a more even access to opinions.

Therefore the 1.2 million print readership of The Mail and the 0.345million readership of the Expresss has a minimal influence on an electorate of 47,900,000 .

In fact, I suspect the Mail and Express is bought by people ALREADY holding the attitudes promulgated by those papers and so influences very few people.

I think it's simply hard for leftys to accept that they are not trusted, not believed and are mostly held in contempt by pragmatic and rational thinking voters.


PaulC
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Nov 14, 2019, 8:00 AM

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In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Personally, I’m not a fan of letting children vote due to the undue influence of parents and teachers.


Is it any worse than stupid adults being unduly influenced by the Mail and Express?


Total circulation of the Mail and Express ?

Less than 1.5million

In an electorate of 47,900,000 methinks you rather overplay their influence.

Lets just look at that again.....

47,900,000

1,500,000

Hmmmmmm!

That’s incredibly simplistic.

Print readership
Mail 4m
Express 0.8m

Online readership
Mail 11m

Facebook, Twitter.

Free publicity from BBC and Sky who quote them extensively in their newspaper reviews.


Incredibly Simplistic should be your tag line..........It's your stock in trade Smile

Here's the circulation figures https://en.wikipedia.org/...ngdom_by_circulation

No doubt most of the online hits are from Snowflakes looking to be offended......

Could you post evidence that the Mail or the Mail Online influences readers any more or more effectively than The Guardian Online for example.

Unlike print papers one would suspect that in the online world a person has access to ALL publications and therefore one should conclude that online readers have a more even access to opinions.

Therefore the 1.2 million print readership of The Mail and the 0.345million readership of the Expresss has a minimal influence on an electorate of 47,900,000 .

In fact, I suspect the Mail and Express is bought by people ALREADY holding the attitudes promulgated by those papers and so influences very few people.

I think it's simply hard for leftys to accept that they are not trusted, not believed and are mostly held in contempt by pragmatic and rational thinking voters.


I’ll let you discover the difference between circulation and readership.


jon b
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Nov 14, 2019, 8:20 AM

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In Reply To

I think it's simply hard for leftys to accept that they are not trusted, not believed and are mostly held in contempt by pragmatic and rational thinking voters.


Or rightys.

As in post 56 you stated that you consider yourself a lefty, presumably you're referring to the extreme left. As for the extreme right, we know which side of the Brexit debate they're on.

.


jon b
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Nov 14, 2019, 12:14 PM

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In Reply To

My major problem at this General Election is who to vote for, as none of the parties currently appeal to me.


Ditto Unimpressed

And, according to a couple of analysts on R4 this morning, a great chunk of people are paying zilch attention to any of the campaigns so far.

Maybe our bunfight on here has kicked off a bit early. A case of premature electionation.

Those analysts expect the election to only move into gear in the final fortnight, so there's plenty of time/scope for something unexpected to blow best laid plans on all sides onto the rocks.

For instance, in these parts we're feeling a bit damp and neglected at the moment, Unsure we're not convinced that a party centred on the home counties really cares about us disappearing under water. Shocked

.


007Dale
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Nov 14, 2019, 2:54 PM

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Re: [jon b] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

ComRes (11th / 12th Nov) has an increased lead for the Tories (10% v 8%).

However, that is an increase in both Tory and Labour vote at the expense of Brexit and Lib Dem.

To be seen what impact the Floods and NHS wait times have on this. The Sunday Paper polls will be a good indicator; if Labour aren’t showing an improvement by then, it’s really looking poor for them.


Towlawtom
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Nov 14, 2019, 4:16 PM

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Re: [007Dale] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Still a hell of a lot better for labour then at the same point in 2017.
Boris isn't campaiging very well and still a lot to play for.
I'm looking forward to the debate between Corbyn and Johnson to see who comes off best. That could have some influence on the voters.



I need to have the last word, as it always looks as if I am right !


PaulC
Man City Transfer Target!


Nov 14, 2019, 5:21 PM

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In Reply To
Still a hell of a lot better for labour then at the same point in 2017.
Boris isn't campaiging very well and still a lot to play for.
I'm looking forward to the debate between Corbyn and Johnson to see who comes off best. That could have some influence on the voters.


Johnson is just so poor when responding to direct questioning. Beyond slogans “let’s get Brexit done” and acting the fool there is nothing. He had no vision for the country. His only ambition is for himself.

He always looks so flustered when he has to think on his feet and he takes criticism very badly. I’m looking forward to his head to head with Corbyn.


Yatesman
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Nov 14, 2019, 7:31 PM

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In Reply To

In Reply To
Still a hell of a lot better for labour then at the same point in 2017.
Boris isn't campaiging very well and still a lot to play for.
I'm looking forward to the debate between Corbyn and Johnson to see who comes off best. That could have some influence on the voters.


Johnson is just so poor when responding to direct questioning. Beyond slogans “let’s get Brexit done” and acting the fool there is nothing. He had no vision for the country. His only ambition is for himself.

He always looks so flustered when he has to think on his feet and he takes criticism very badly. I’m looking forward to his head to head with Corbyn.


I think Boris enjoys those sorts of events.

He's very clever at getting his core message across to voters.

Corbyn, on the other hand, is joyless and irksome and an easy target thanks to his flip flopping on Brexit/ScotIndy and his fantasy economics!


(This post was edited by Yatesman on Nov 14, 2019, 7:35 PM)


PaulC
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Nov 14, 2019, 9:22 PM

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Re: [Isaac] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Traditional Labour leave voters need to wake up !
Do they love Brexit more then the NHS and protecting their working and social rights which Boris will slash,


Simple choice for them to make!


And you really think Labour will look after the NHS?[/reply]

So under the Tories, England had the worst A&E waiting time ever recorded, cancer treatment waiting time targets which haven’t been met since 2015 and 100,000 unfilled vacancies.

The Tories are not fit to be guardians of our health service.


007Dale
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Nov 14, 2019, 10:21 PM

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Post #223 of 596 (290 views)
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In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Traditional Labour leave voters need to wake up !
Do they love Brexit more then the NHS and protecting their working and social rights which Boris will slash,


Simple choice for them to make!


And you really think Labour will look after the NHS?[/reply]

So under the Tories, England had the worst A&E waiting time ever recorded, cancer treatment waiting time targets which haven’t been met since 2015 and 100,000 unfilled vacancies.

The Tories are not fit to be guardians of our health service.[/reply]

Austerity, as a direct result of the incompetence of the last Labour Government, is the main reason for NHS funding being curbed.

What was it the outgoing Government said in 2010 “sorry there’s no money left.” We’ll go figure, it has an impact on health, education, policing.

Mind you, if you think the last 9 years of austerity is bad, wait and see what happens after 5 years of a Corbyn labour government. Firstly we’d need to increase NHS funding by 20% just to keep service levels the same, when we’ve given everyone Friday’s off.

Looking forward to reading the Labour manifesto to see where all this money is coming from to nationalise everything and increase spending in all Government departments.

But at least Corbyn is clear on his Scottish Independence policy...


Chris1963
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Nov 14, 2019, 10:37 PM

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Post #224 of 596 (262 views)
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In Reply To

In Reply To
the Labour manifesto to see where all this money is coming from to nationalise everything and increase spending in all Government departments.


One way in which Labour could pay for all this stuff would be to pull British troops out of all Muslim countries (and possibly the Falklands as well) which would save billions. I don't know if they are actually considering this and if they are, they are certainly doing well at keeping it under wraps.


(This post was edited by Chris1963 on Nov 14, 2019, 10:38 PM)


Yatesman
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Nov 14, 2019, 11:16 PM

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Post #225 of 596 (236 views)
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Re: [PaulC] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Traditional Labour leave voters need to wake up !
Do they love Brexit more then the NHS and protecting their working and social rights which Boris will slash,


Simple choice for them to make!


And you really think Labour will look after the NHS?[/reply]

So under the Tories, England had the worst A&E waiting time ever recorded, cancer treatment waiting time targets which haven’t been met since 2015 and 100,000 unfilled vacancies.

The Tories are not fit to be guardians of our health service.[/reply]


Whatever issues and struggles the NHS are facing they would be far worse under Labour.

The truth is that the NHS is being misused and it's ethos has been lost/confused/compromised by poliitcal interference .

The NHS is asked to do far more than it should need to and is just a cash cow for thousands of middle managers and administrators. It is out of focus and needs a major reboot.

The Tories have been running the NHS for most of the 71 years it has existed so that proves it cares for the NHS ,however......

It needs taking out of the political sphere and running independently of politicians.


PaulC
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Nov 14, 2019, 11:25 PM

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Post #226 of 596 (645 views)
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In Reply To
Austerity, as a direct result of the incompetence of the last Labour Government, is the main reason for NHS funding being curbed.

What was it the outgoing Government said in 2010 “sorry there’s no money left.” We’ll go figure, it has an impact on health, education, policing.

..


Oh dear, the tired old Tory trope.

2008-10 was a consequence of the global financial meltdown.

Even Osborne accepts Labour was not responsible for the financial troubles.

https://twitter.com/EL4JC/status/920028051911663616?s=20

I see you are another one to fall for the standing joke amongst outgoing Chancellors.

"Sorry old cock, to leave it in this shape," Reggie Maudling, Tory Chancellor.

If you actually took the trouble to find out for yourself, rather than simply regurgitate uncritically Tory/Daily Mail nonsense you would see this lost decade was almost totally of the Tories making. What an achievement to condemn the UK to a decade of stagnation yet run up a debt of nearly £1 trillion.

You wouldn’t trust the Tories to run a whelk store.


jon b
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Nov 15, 2019, 12:04 AM

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The Conservatives pretending that they've have avoided the worldwide financial crash is farcical given that they were pushing for reduced regulation of the UK financial sector right up to the time that the sky fell in.

Of course, the Tories like the rest of us, hadn't realised that the high flying massive profit generating bankers weren't wise boys but wide boys who in reality weren't very good at the basics of responsible banking.

Not so much Mr Mainwarings but Walker spivs.

.


buncranaboy
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Nov 15, 2019, 12:13 AM

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In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
the Labour manifesto to see where all this money is coming from to nationalise everything and increase spending in all Government departments.


One way in which Labour could pay for all this stuff would be to pull British troops out of all Muslim countries (and possibly the Falklands as well) which would save billions. I don't know if they are actually considering this and if they are, they are certainly doing well at keeping it under wraps.


Why Muslim countries ?


Chris1963
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Nov 15, 2019, 1:01 AM

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Simple really - because Labour will be relying on the Muslim vote at the forthcoming election.


Ronsdog
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Nov 15, 2019, 1:34 AM

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In Reply To
Simple really - because Labour will be relying on the Muslim vote at the forthcoming election.


.....just for the record. https://www.mend.org.uk/...-voting-patterns.pdf


007Dale
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Nov 15, 2019, 5:40 AM

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Latest fantasy politics from Labour:
- trash the Telecoms sector by nationalising Openreach and giving everyone free fibre.

Consequences:
- national debt increases yet further
- pension funds collapse, where heavily invested in BT and other telco’s
- no competition = worse service
- Sky, Virgin, Talk Talk, Rest of BT (part not nationalised), etc collapse as product they sell now given away by Government. Hundreds of thousands unemployed as a result.
- Digital tax (to pay for run costs) not implementable.

I just can’t fathom how Labour think they should be put in charge of the economy again. Madness. Utter Madness.


jon b
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Almost as mad as pouring billions down the drain through Brexit.

.


007Dale
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Almost as mad as pouring billions down the drain through Brexit.

.


Why stop at Broadband? Let’s nationalise the Supermarkets and give everyone free food.


Yatesman
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Nov 15, 2019, 7:30 AM

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In Reply To
Austerity, as a direct result of the incompetence of the last Labour Government, is the main reason for NHS funding being curbed.

What was it the outgoing Government said in 2010 “sorry there’s no money left.” We’ll go figure, it has an impact on health, education, policing.

..


Oh dear, the tired old Tory trope.

2008-10 was a consequence of the global financial meltdown.

Even Osborne accepts Labour was not responsible for the financial troubles.

https://twitter.com/EL4JC/status/920028051911663616?s=20

I see you are another one to fall for the standing joke amongst outgoing Chancellors.

"Sorry old cock, to leave it in this shape," Reggie Maudling, Tory Chancellor.

If you actually took the trouble to find out for yourself, rather than simply regurgitate uncritically Tory/Daily Mail nonsense you would see this lost decade was almost totally of the Tories making. What an achievement to condemn the UK to a decade of stagnation yet run up a debt of nearly £1 trillion.

You wouldn’t trust the Tories to run a whelk store.



So you are saying Labour abjectly failed to regulate the Financial Sector as it shoud have and failed to build up a Bank Bail Out fund and failed to level out the boom/bust nature of the housing market?

They also failed to invest enough in the economy and infrastructure during the good times .

Glad we cleared that up!

Apart from that, Yes, a lot of the nature of the 2008 crash was outside the Labour Govt's control and in the Eurozone the amount of debt being run up by Greece , especially but also Spain, Italy and Portugal became a massive burden for the EU.

The crash of 2008 - 2013 then hit business and consumer confidence/spending and the Gov't was probably right to adopt a cautious economic policy.
It's as well we weren't a member of the Eurozone or it would have been worse.


Yatesman
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Nov 15, 2019, 7:33 AM

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In Reply To

In Reply To
Almost as mad as pouring billions down the drain through Brexit.

.


Why stop at Broadband? Let’s nationalise the Supermarkets and give everyone free food.


Tbh I agree with free Broadband because you can't do anything these days without having to be online.

Therefore businesses and Gov't should pay for it.


007Dale
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Nov 15, 2019, 7:53 AM

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In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Almost as mad as pouring billions down the drain through Brexit.

.


Why stop at Broadband? Let’s nationalise the Supermarkets and give everyone free food.


Tbh I agree with free Broadband because you can't do anything these days without having to be online.

Therefore businesses and Gov't should pay for it.


But you can’t use broadband without electricity, so are you saying we should all have free electricity as well?


jon b
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Nov 15, 2019, 8:10 AM

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Latest fantasy politics from Labour


It is amazing what strange fantasies some politicians can conjure up.

There was one halfwit who wasted millions on the idea of a "garden bridge" across the Thames. Then he proposed building an airport in the Thames estuary, followed by a bridge across the English Channel - the busiest shipping area in the world - and he then trumped that insanity by wanting to build bridge across the Irish Sea over a massive WW2 arms dump.

I wonder what happened to that fantasist? Did he lie down in front of bulldozers at Heathrow or die in a ditch somewhere?

.


PaulC
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Simple really - because Labour will be relying on the Muslim vote at the forthcoming election.


Is that because of the rampant islamophobia within the Tory party?


jon b
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So you are saying Labour abjectly failed to regulate the Financial Sector as it shoud have and failed to build up a Bank Bail Out fund and failed to level out the boom/bust nature of the housing market?

They also failed to invest enough in the economy and infrastructure during the good times .

Glad we cleared that up!

Apart from that, Yes, a lot of the nature of the 2008 crash was outside the Labour Govt's control and in the Eurozone the amount of debt being run up by Greece , especially but also Spain, Italy and Portugal became a massive burden for the EU.

The crash of 2008 - 2013 then hit business and consumer confidence/spending and the Gov't was probably right to adopt a cautious economic policy.
It's as well we weren't a member of the Eurozone or it would have been worse.


You think that the Tories would have more tightly regulated the Financial Sector?! Cool At the time they were pushing for much less regulation not more.

And the idea that they would have invested more....... Cool

As for not being in the Eurozone, for that alone Gordon Brown deserves a medal, statue etc etc

.


kirby knitters
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Nov 15, 2019, 8:39 AM

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In Reply To
Simple really - because Labour will be relying on the Muslim vote at the forthcoming election.


Is that because of the rampant islamophobia within the Tory party?

No mention of the rampant antisemitism which has been giving Labour heaps of grief over the last few years!


Towlawtom
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Nov 15, 2019, 11:20 AM

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Unbelievable, Matt Hancock has recently said ‘in many ways the nhs is performing better than it ever has.’

Staggering, that it was confirmed A&E performance is at its worst & more patients are languishing on trolleys.

CONservatives utterly clueless about pain & misery their health cuts caused.



I need to have the last word, as it always looks as if I am right !


Towlawtom
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Nov 15, 2019, 11:37 AM

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Why are the CONservatives launching a migrant-bashing campaign ? Because they want to distract you from the catastrophic NHS story.

It's the oldest political trick in the book: the powerful scapegoating migrants to deflect from the problems caused by elites.

It was immigrants who imposed austerity.
Immigrants cut police numbers by 21,000.
Immigrants imposed the brutal bedroom tax and benefit sanctions.
Immigrants starved schools & hospitals of funds.
Immigrants slashed social care.

Remember: immigrants did all this, not the CONservatives



I need to have the last word, as it always looks as if I am right !

(This post was edited by Towlawtom on Nov 15, 2019, 11:38 AM)


Ronsdog
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Nov 15, 2019, 2:36 PM

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In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Simple really - because Labour will be relying on the Muslim vote at the forthcoming election.


Is that because of the rampant islamophobia within the Tory party?

No mention of the rampant antisemitism which has been giving Labour heaps of grief over the last few years!


The New Statemens take on the issue.....https://www.newstatesman.com/...anti-semitism-crisis


jon b
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I find it bizarre that somehow for many on the left the difficulties in Palestine/Israel are simplified into Palestinians good and Isrealis/Jews evil.

I wouldn't even rely on them to accept the right of Israel to exist.

I've heard some on the left compare it to supporting the Republicans against Franco and the Nationalists/Fascists in the Spanish Civil War. Some sort of weird holy grail.

All over the world there are bitter and prolonged conflicts between different ethnic/religious groups over who owns what bit of land. For some reason Israel/Palestine is the one that the Labour left are obsessed with. It's difficult to see it as anything other than modern day anti-semitism.

.


Yatesman
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Nov 15, 2019, 5:24 PM

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Unbelievable, Matt Hancock has recently said ‘in many ways the nhs is performing better than it ever has.’

Staggering, that it was confirmed A&E performance is at its worst & more patients are languishing on trolleys.

CONservatives utterly clueless about pain & misery their health cuts caused.



I can understand why he would say that.

Most people who use the NHS get really good, professional service by first rate caring people.

The problem the NHS has , apart from being an unwieldy behemoth, is that the cost of its services has risen exponentially thanks to leaps forward in treatments and new drugs and because it is a victim of its own success.
As people live longer their demands on the NHS become more complex and more expensive.

Btw, The Tories haven't cut anything. Health boards do that.

The Tories are investing record sums in the NHS trying to keep up with the increased demand .


Yatesman
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Nov 15, 2019, 5:25 PM

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Why are the CONservatives launching a migrant-bashing campaign ? Because they want to distract you from the catastrophic NHS story.

It's the oldest political trick in the book: the powerful scapegoating migrants to deflect from the problems caused by elites.

It was immigrants who imposed austerity.
Immigrants cut police numbers by 21,000.
Immigrants imposed the brutal bedroom tax and benefit sanctions.
Immigrants starved schools & hospitals of funds.
Immigrants slashed social care.

Remember: immigrants did all this, not the CONservatives


I think the middle classes in the UK have Immigrant Dependency issues!!

I wonder if the NHS can treat that!


(This post was edited by Yatesman on Nov 15, 2019, 5:29 PM)


Yatesman
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Nov 15, 2019, 5:27 PM

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I find it bizarre that somehow for many on the left the difficulties in Palestine/Israel are simplified into Palestinians good and Isrealis/Jews evil.

I wouldn't even rely on them to accept the right of Israel to exist.

I've heard some on the left compare it to supporting the Republicans against Franco and the Nationalists/Fascists in the Spanish Civil War. Some sort of weird holy grail.

All over the world there are bitter and prolonged conflicts between different ethnic/religious groups over who owns what bit of land. For some reason Israel/Palestine is the one that the Labour left are obsessed with. It's difficult to see it as anything other than modern day anti-semitism.

.



I agree.

Their obsession with Uni-Campus politics has caused them to lose sight of their duty to the British Working Class.........

Hence why they have now been abandoned by them!!


PaulC
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Nov 15, 2019, 6:31 PM

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In Reply To
I find it bizarre that somehow for many on the left the difficulties in Palestine/Israel are simplified into Palestinians good and Isrealis/Jews evil.

I wouldn't even rely on them to accept the right of Israel to exist.

I've heard some on the left compare it to supporting the Republicans against Franco and the Nationalists/Fascists in the Spanish Civil War. Some sort of weird holy grail.

All over the world there are bitter and prolonged conflicts between different ethnic/religious groups over who owns what bit of land. For some reason Israel/Palestine is the one that the Labour left are obsessed with. It's difficult to see it as anything other than modern day anti-semitism.

.

There is nothing anti-Semitic in being critical of the Israeli state over abject treatment of some of its citizens.

It compares badly with apartheid S Africa. Apartheid supported by Tories, opposed by Labour


Yatesman
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Nov 15, 2019, 10:13 PM

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In Reply To

In Reply To
I find it bizarre that somehow for many on the left the difficulties in Palestine/Israel are simplified into Palestinians good and Isrealis/Jews evil.

I wouldn't even rely on them to accept the right of Israel to exist.

I've heard some on the left compare it to supporting the Republicans against Franco and the Nationalists/Fascists in the Spanish Civil War. Some sort of weird holy grail.

All over the world there are bitter and prolonged conflicts between different ethnic/religious groups over who owns what bit of land. For some reason Israel/Palestine is the one that the Labour left are obsessed with. It's difficult to see it as anything other than modern day anti-semitism.

.



It compares badly with apartheid S Africa. Apartheid supported by Tories, opposed by Labour


How far back shall we go ?

Apatheid was an abomination.

The SNP supported Hitler and Hugh MacDiarmid was an avowed fascist. A significant vein of Scottish Nationalism is supportive of Irish Terrorism and have provided material support for the IRA

Shall we remind Scottish voters of the murky side of Scottish Nationalism at this election?


PaulC
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Nov 15, 2019, 10:50 PM

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The SNP supported Hitler


No it didn’t.


Yatesman
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Nov 15, 2019, 10:57 PM

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In Reply To
The SNP supported Hitler


No it didn’t.


Did Hugh Macdiarmid founding father of the SNP
support fascism......
Writing several papers on the subject.....and say that a Hitler invasion of Britain would be good for Scotland.....

I'll save you the bother......Yes he did!


007Dale
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Nov 16, 2019, 8:36 AM

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A further 41 seats across Great Britain that the Brexit party won’t contest. Mostly in Scotland, but Canterbury, Bristol NW and Stoke North in England.

After the disaster of the £100bn Free Broadband miscalculation, the Labour Party are squabbling over their manifesto today.

One assumes they’ll have just re-printed Michael Foot’s manifesto from 1983.


Towlawtom
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Tories:
“There’s absolutely no need for everyone to have free broadband. It’s a stunt!”

Also the Tories:
“The only way you can get Universal Credit is to apply for it online.”



I need to have the last word, as it always looks as if I am right !


PaulC
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Nov 16, 2019, 9:22 AM

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In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
The SNP supported Hitler


No it didn’t.


Did Hugh Macdiarmid founding father of the SNP
support fascism......
Writing several papers on the subject.....and say that a Hitler invasion of Britain would be good for Scotland.....

I'll save you the bother......Yes he did!


In what sense was McDiarmid “the SNP”?

LOL!


Yatesman
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Nov 16, 2019, 9:23 AM

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Tories:
“There’s absolutely no need for everyone to have free broadband. It’s a stunt!”

Also the Tories:
“The only way you can get Universal Credit is to apply for it online.”


As I've said, I like the free Broadband idea.

Life seems to lived online more and more nowadays from Gov't departments, Local Authorities, Banks , Tickets for public transport, Learning ,etc

Perhaps there could be a simpler way than Nationalisation such as compelling providers to supply Broadband services to anyone that falls under a certain income threshold or anyone on benefits with big penalties if they fail.


Yatesman
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Nov 16, 2019, 9:33 AM

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In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
The SNP supported Hitler


No it didn’t.


Did Hugh Macdiarmid founding father of the SNP
support fascism......
Writing several papers on the subject.....and say that a Hitler invasion of Britain would be good for Scotland.....

I'll save you the bother......Yes he did!


In what sense was McDiarmid “the SNP”?

LOL!


There's a direct line from Hugh MacDiarmid forming 'The National Party of Scotland' in 1928 to him standing as a GE candidate in 1945 for 'The Scottish National Party' and also again in 1950 in Glasgow Kelvingrove for ............'The Scottish National Party'.

You could research this yourself btw!

https://www.scotsman.com/...r-the-nazis-1-797634

Like I said, The murky side of ScotNatsism


(This post was edited by Yatesman on Nov 16, 2019, 9:38 AM)


Towlawtom
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Nov 16, 2019, 9:48 AM

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In Reply To

In Reply To
Tories:
“There’s absolutely no need for everyone to have free broadband. It’s a stunt!”

Also the Tories:
“The only way you can get Universal Credit is to apply for it online.”


As I've said, I like the free Broadband idea.

Life seems to lived online more and more nowadays from Gov't departments, Local Authorities, Banks , Tickets for public transport, Learning ,etc

Perhaps there could be a simpler way than Nationalisation such as compelling providers to supply Broadband services to anyone that falls under a certain income threshold or anyone on benefits with big penalties if they fail.


Just making light of the Tory double standards.
I'd agree with some of that. Means tests should apply to a lot of stuff that is given out for free, JSA, Maternity leave, bus passes etc.
Would make an exception for NHS though keep free treatment for all!



I need to have the last word, as it always looks as if I am right !


windydcfc
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Nov 16, 2019, 10:28 AM

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Boris’s interview with Naga was an absolute car crash https://www.google.co.uk/...chetty-children/amp/
I can understand why people don’t like Corbyn, but the alternative is a party filled with over privileged oafs and the biggest over privileged oaf is their leader. I know many forum members are Tory voters. Surely none of you can honestly relate to Boris? I think the whole political structure needs to change, because the one we have right now is depressingly dreadful.



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


PaulC
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Nov 16, 2019, 10:46 AM

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In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
The SNP supported Hitler


No it didn’t.


Did Hugh Macdiarmid founding father of the SNP
support fascism......
Writing several papers on the subject.....and say that a Hitler invasion of Britain would be good for Scotland.....

I'll save you the bother......Yes he did!


In what sense was McDiarmid “the SNP”?

LOL!


There's a direct line from Hugh MacDiarmid forming 'The National Party of Scotland' in 1928 to him standing as a GE candidate in 1945 for 'The Scottish National Party' and also again in 1950 in Glasgow Kelvingrove for ............'The Scottish National Party'.

You could research this yourself btw!

https://www.scotsman.com/...r-the-nazis-1-797634

Like I said, The murky side of ScotNatsism



A direct link which led to him being thrown out of the NPS (as it then was) in 1933 and joining the CPGB.

It’s interesting you cite 1928, before Hitler came to power and 1945 and 1950, after he was dead as evidence that Grieve and therefore the SNP supported Hitler. His expulsion during the time Hitler was in power is a bit awkward.

LOL!

Instead of citing a unionist rag, try some academic research instead.

https://www.napier.ac.uk/...emanisamenacepdf.pdf

Again I ask, how is an individual thrown out of the SNP “the SNP”?


(This post was edited by PaulC on Nov 16, 2019, 10:56 AM)


007Dale
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Nov 16, 2019, 11:46 AM

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Oh dear, the LOL brothers are at it again.

Anyway, back to the topic in hand and a massive blow to Labour as the latest poll has been released;

Panelbase (13th/14th):

Tories 43 (+3)
Labour 30 (-)
Lib Dem’s 15 (-)
Brexit 5 (-3)

Tory Majority up 3 to 13%

They’ll be more released for the Sunday’s, they have to show a turnaround for Labour, otherwise it’s curtains for them.


Yatesman
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Nov 16, 2019, 11:51 AM

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Massive Yawn!

The founding father of the Modern Scottish Nationalist movement was a proponent of National Socialism and wanted Hitler to win the war.......that's from his own pen.........Own it!

No amount of wordage from modern day apologists can change that.
He supported Hitler during the war and stood as an SNP candidate after the war. ...
Boosh!

Now back to the election campaign of 2019, thank you!


Yatesman
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Nov 16, 2019, 12:38 PM

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In Reply To
Oh dear, the LOL brothers are at it again.

Anyway, back to the topic in hand and a massive blow to Labour as the latest poll has been released;

Panelbase (13th/14th):

Tories 43 (+3)
Labour 30 (-)
Lib Dem’s 15 (-)
Brexit 5 (-3)

Tory Majority up 3 to 13%

They’ll be more released for the Sunday’s, they have to show a turnaround for Labour, otherwise it’s curtains for them.


I'm not a big fan of polls , as you know, as I have strong doubts about the dodgy science employed.

However, Corbyn is starting to remind me of Michael Foot.


PaulC
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Nov 16, 2019, 2:22 PM

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Massive Yawn!

The founding father of the Modern Scottish Nationalist movement was a proponent of National Socialism and wanted Hitler to win the war.......that's from his own pen.........Own it!

No amount of wordage from modern day apologists can change that.
He supported Hitler during the war and stood as an SNP candidate after the war. ...
Boosh!

Now back to the election campaign of 2019, thank you!


Grieve is not the SNP. The SNP did not support Hitler.

You are wrong again. Live with it.

Back to the election campaign from which you deviated.


PaulC
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Nov 16, 2019, 2:37 PM

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Re: [007Dale] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The latest poll shows a complete wipe out of the Tories in Scotland with every seat going to the SNP.


Climate Change
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Nov 16, 2019, 5:23 PM

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The latest poll shows a complete wipe out of the Tories in Scotland with every seat going to the SNP.


Scottish opinion polls suggest the SNP will increase its number of Westminster seats to around 45 – a view endorsed privately by other parties – regaining some it lost in the 2017 snap election. It currently holds 35 out of Scotland’s 59 Westminster constituencies.

Don't forget, Mr C, by your reckoning not every opinion collected is that of an intellect, so probably not worth the paper it is written on.



I don't need Google. I have a Hoddy.

(This post was edited by Climate Change on Nov 16, 2019, 5:42 PM)


Yatesman
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Nov 16, 2019, 7:06 PM

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Re: [Climate Change] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

 Maybe it means Scots want to trade the freedom within the Union for subjugation in the EU.......bizarre!

EU to blame for UK floods:

https://twitter.com/.../1195662498063618048


hawkwind
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Nov 16, 2019, 7:48 PM

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Total nonsense.

As was already explained in 2016.


Towlawtom
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Nov 16, 2019, 8:26 PM

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Re: [hawkwind] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

That's from a great blog which I have posted on here in the past

Hundreds of fake lying headlines of things the right wing tabloids said would happen to the UK if we remain in the EU but of course never did.

Would suggest the Quitters had a good long look at it as that's where a lot of them got their inspiration from to leave..

https://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/euromyths-a-z-index/



I need to have the last word, as it always looks as if I am right !


Yatesman
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Nov 16, 2019, 8:34 PM

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Total nonsense.

As was already explained in 2016.


Well they would say that wouldn't they.

It proves the extra layer of rules and regulation are totally unnecessary and leads to confusion.......

Bring it back home..........!


007Dale
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Nov 17, 2019, 12:56 PM

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Re: [Yatesman] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Despite criticism of the Tories for their handling of the Flood crisis and long A&E wait times, the Labour Party is successfully managing to sabotage its chances of winning, with a succession of ill-conceived and unfunded policy announcements.

All three major poll’s released today have significant increased majority’s for the Tories;

DeltaPoll: Tory Majority 15% (+3)
Opinium: Tory Majority 16% (+4)
YouGov: Tory Majority 17% (+3)

Some polls suggesting that Lib Dem support is falling, as voters are now more worried about a communist Government, than Brexit, forcing them to switch votes to the Tories.

It’s interesting, because what started as the ‘Brexit Election’ is now no longer the most important issue for people - as they see more and more of what a Corbyn Government would do to this country.


PaulC
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Nov 17, 2019, 1:17 PM

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It’s interesting, because what started as the ‘Brexit Election’ is now no longer the most important issue for people - as they see more and more of what a Corbyn Government would do to this country.


What would it do (spare us any Daily Mail headlines)?


Yatesman
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Nov 17, 2019, 2:24 PM

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It’s interesting, because what started as the ‘Brexit Election’ is now no longer the most important issue for people - as they see more and more of what a Corbyn Government would do to this country.


What would it do (spare us any Daily Mail headlines)?



I'm Pretty sure you're the only person on this forum that reads the Daily Mail.

Most people think Labour offering freebies reduces their credibility.
Most people know that everything has to be paid for somewhere down the line and free stuff meands higher taxes.

I've changed my mind about free Broadband!

I don't want free stuff.

I want a free country

I want freedom of choice.

I want the money I earn at MY disposal so I can choose to spend it on the things I want.

I want LESS State, not the State controlling EVERYTHING.

Imagine Labour and the SNP controlling your internet .........Big Brother is watching YOU!!!!!


PaulC
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Nov 17, 2019, 2:57 PM

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Post #273 of 596 (207 views)
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In Reply To

In Reply To
It’s interesting, because what started as the ‘Brexit Election’ is now no longer the most important issue for people - as they see more and more of what a Corbyn Government would do to this country.


What would it do (spare us any Daily Mail headlines)?



I'm Pretty sure you're the only person on this forum that reads the Daily Mail.

Most people think Labour offering freebies reduces their credibility.
Most people know that everything has to be paid for somewhere down the line and free stuff meands higher taxes.

I've changed my mind about free Broadband!

I don't want free stuff.

I want a free country

I want freedom of choice.

I want the money I earn at MY disposal so I can choose to spend it on the things I want.

I want LESS State, not the State controlling EVERYTHING.

Imagine Labour and the SNP controlling your internet .........Big Brother is watching YOU!!!!!


"FREEDOM!!!" Have you been watching Braveheart again?

All that platitudinous waffle and at the end of the day polling finds the electorate approves of Labour’s plan to provide broadband free at the point of use and to acquire the necessary part of BT to do so.

The electorate also approves the taking into public ownership of trains, energy and (in England) water - Scotland never handed over its water to the spivs and wideboys.


(This post was edited by PaulC on Nov 17, 2019, 3:01 PM)


007Dale
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Nov 17, 2019, 3:05 PM

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The electorate also approves the taking into public ownership of trains, energy and (in England) water - Scotland never handed over its water to the spivs and wideboys.


Well, if you are right, they’ll be a Labour majority Government on Friday 13th December.


PaulC
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Nov 17, 2019, 3:41 PM

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The electorate also approves the taking into public ownership of trains, energy and (in England) water - Scotland never handed over its water to the spivs and wideboys.


Well, if you are right, they’ll be a Labour majority Government on Friday 13th December.


Like you, I’m just citing opinion polls.


Yatesman
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Nov 17, 2019, 6:17 PM

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Post #276 of 596 (588 views)
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In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
It’s interesting, because what started as the ‘Brexit Election’ is now no longer the most important issue for people - as they see more and more of what a Corbyn Government would do to this country.


What would it do (spare us any Daily Mail headlines)?



I'm Pretty sure you're the only person on this forum that reads the Daily Mail.

Most people think Labour offering freebies reduces their credibility.
Most people know that everything has to be paid for somewhere down the line and free stuff meands higher taxes.

I've changed my mind about free Broadband!

I don't want free stuff.

I want a free country

I want freedom of choice.

I want the money I earn at MY disposal so I can choose to spend it on the things I want.

I want LESS State, not the State controlling EVERYTHING.

Imagine Labour and the SNP controlling your internet .........Big Brother is watching YOU!!!!!




- Scotland never handed over its water to the spivs and wideboys.


Spivs and Wideboys, LOL!

The sort of attitude that proves the left are anti-business and anti-competition .

History has shown us that the State doesn't run utilities well, doesn't invest enough and doesn't innovate.

The State should stick to collecting taxes ,passing pointless legislation and nannying its citizenry....The things it's good at!


Climate Change
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Nov 17, 2019, 6:55 PM

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Post #277 of 596 (569 views)
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Scotland never handed over its water to the spivs and wideboys.



Did Wales?