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Home: Non Football Related: General Chat:
Brexit - Again

 

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MelChester
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Sep 6, 2019, 1:17 PM

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Post #51 of 419 (872 views)
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A right wing elite party who want to leave with no deal so it's leaders don't have to abide by forth coming EU rules about offshore investments.

Don't think 17.4 million people voted for that, 25 to 30 million voted for remain or soft / medium Brexit .Not quite sure where no deal creapt in other than for the rich to get richer. I dislike the far left almost as much as I do the fat right.


northstandexile
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Sep 6, 2019, 1:28 PM

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Post #52 of 419 (866 views)
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What I can’t get over is how can any deal be financially better off than remaining.

No country is going to give us a better trade deal than the one we have as part of the EU.


Ronsdog
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Sep 6, 2019, 1:34 PM

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Post #53 of 419 (865 views)
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Not quite sure where no deal creapt in other than for the rich to get richer. I dislike the far left almost as much as I do the fat right.


It crept in as a strategy to unite the Leave vote and nullify the threat to the Tories of the Brexit party. If Johnson is right in his thinking then after over three years of dithering and obfuscation by Parliamentarians, we will finally rid ourselves of the EU yoke.

As a leaver, who is neither rich nor privilidged, along with 34% of the total electorate I support this way forward. The prize is far more important than the means to it.


(This post was edited by Ronsdog on Sep 6, 2019, 1:37 PM)


Towlawtom
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Sep 6, 2019, 1:50 PM

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Post #54 of 419 (844 views)
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What I can’t get over is how can any deal be financially better off than remaining.

No country is going to give us a better trade deal than the one we have as part of the EU.


Yes but at least we will be free, able to take control of our borders, Make our own laws and get rid of all those unelected bureaucrats LaughLaugh



I need to have the last word, as it always looks as if I am right !


Mr. T
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Sep 6, 2019, 2:38 PM

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Post #55 of 419 (821 views)
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Something that the hapless May should have done when her cabinet leaked and briefed against her.

Except May was really for staying. The Chequers business showed this, when Baker, Davis and Johnson realised what an appalling document the WA was.


northstandexile
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Sep 6, 2019, 6:28 PM

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Post #56 of 419 (763 views)
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What I can’t get over is how can any deal be financially better off than remaining.

No country is going to give us a better trade deal than the one we have as part of the EU.


Yes but at least we will be free, able to take control of our borders, Make our own laws and get rid of all those unelected bureaucrats LaughLaugh


Control of our borders? When we have no border controls between NI and ROI.


MelChester
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Sep 6, 2019, 6:49 PM

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Post #57 of 419 (753 views)
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Not quite sure where no deal creapt in other than for the rich to get ricaher. I dislike the far left almost as much as I do the fat right.


It crept in as a strategy to unite the Leave vote and nullify the threat to the Tories of the Brexit party. If Johnson is right in his thinking then after over three years of dithering and obfuscation by Parliamentarians, we will finally rid ourselves of the EU yoke.

As a leaver, who is neither rich nor privilidged, along with 34% of the total electorate I support this way forward. The prize is far more important than the means to it.


It’s actually split the leave vote, because many did not vote for or do not want no deal. Many leave voters would prefer to remain than leave with a no deal.


steve walker
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Sep 6, 2019, 7:04 PM

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Post #58 of 419 (741 views)
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Not quite sure where no deal creapt in other than for the rich to get ricaher. I dislike the far left almost as much as I do the fat right.


It crept in as a strategy to unite the Leave vote and nullify the threat to the Tories of the Brexit party. If Johnson is right in his thinking then after over three years of dithering and obfuscation by Parliamentarians, we will finally rid ourselves of the EU yoke.

As a leaver, who is neither rich nor privilidged, along with 34% of the total electorate I support this way forward. The prize is far more important than the means to it.


It’s actually split the leave vote, because many did not vote for or do not want no deal. Many leave voters would prefer to remain than leave with a no deal.



I don't think 'no deal' was ever touted as a favourable outcome by the Leave campaign in the run up to the Referendum. We were told that since we were already compliant with EU regulations it could be sorted as the easiest deal in history.

Similarly the Irish border situation was hardly ever mentioned unless I am going senile and forget and when I look back on Google the few references there are to it were dismissed by many including our current PM as being "not a problem".

Certainly seems to be a problem now.


Chris1963
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Sep 6, 2019, 8:35 PM

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Post #59 of 419 (702 views)
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[reply

Yes but at least we will be free, able to take control of our borders, Make our own laws and get rid of all those unelected bureaucrats


1) We already have control of our own borders. We have never been part of the Schengen area. This is due to the UK being an island nation.

2) We already make our own laws, in our own Parliament. Same with all the other EU members. The EU allows them to make their own laws.

3) Unelected bureaucrats? You mean the British Civil Service?

The truth is that Brexiteers are fighting an imaginary dragon. Rather than see the EU as an enemy, they should look to it as a friend and a protector against Vladimir Putin, who would love to see the EU collapse.


Richard Rundle
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Sep 6, 2019, 9:27 PM

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Post #60 of 419 (685 views)
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The truth is that Brexiteers are fighting an imaginary dragon. Rather than see the EU as an enemy, they should look to it as a friend and a protector against Vladimir Putin, who would love to see the EU collapse.


And you could easily replace the name "Vladimir Putin" with the name "Donald Trump" and the post still makes sense.


Towlawtom
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Sep 6, 2019, 10:59 PM

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Post #61 of 419 (653 views)
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[reply

Yes but at least we will be free, able to take control of our borders, Make our own laws and get rid of all those unelected bureaucrats


1) We already have control of our own borders. We have never been part of the Schengen area. This is due to the UK being an island nation.

2) We already make our own laws, in our own Parliament. Same with all the other EU members. The EU allows them to make their own laws.

3) Unelected bureaucrats? You mean the British Civil Service?

The truth is that Brexiteers are fighting an imaginary dragon. Rather than see the EU as an enemy, they should look to it as a friend and a protector against Vladimir Putin, who would love to see the EU collapse.


My comments were of course said in jest Chris1963. Its the usual bullshit arguments the leavers give when asked why they voted leave.

Usually if someone says to you " The Eu is run by Unelected bureaucrats", It would be common sense to research how our UK parliament is run where the EU puts our so called democratic process to shame!



I need to have the last word, as it always looks as if I am right !


PaulC
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Sep 6, 2019, 11:25 PM

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Post #62 of 419 (649 views)
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Unelected bureaucrats. Blimey, we have an unelected legislature packed with has beens, cronies and people who have bankrolled parties.

Add to that the anti-democratic chicanery of Johnson and the UK really isn;t much better than a banana republic.


(This post was edited by PaulC on Sep 6, 2019, 11:31 PM)


007Dale
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Sep 7, 2019, 6:40 AM

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Post #63 of 419 (604 views)
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[reply/]
Add to that the anti-democratic chicanery of Johnson and the UK really isn;t much better than a banana republic.


I know, that undemocratic Johnson, fancy trying to call a General Election in order to deliver a referendum result voted for by the people.


MelChester
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Sep 7, 2019, 8:03 AM

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Post #64 of 419 (586 views)
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[reply/]
Add to that the anti-democratic chicanery of Johnson and the UK really isn;t much better than a banana republic.


I know, that undemocratic Johnson, fancy trying to call a General Election in order to deliver a referendum result voted for by the people.


No he doesn't, he wants to deliver a Brexit very few voted for and only a small percentage want. The circumstances have been explained many times this week about him calling an election at this time is not of benefit to the other parties and the only person it would help is Boris and his cronies. They have engineered this mess let them stew. Many remainers would except a soft Brexit that was proposed in 2016, but the Tories have been infilttrated by a right wing elite who want to force a no deal to feather their on nests. If a no deal happened there would be very few winners and the worst losers would not be many remainers but those who are less well off and who voted for Brexit. They will be the hardest hit.


PaulC
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Sep 7, 2019, 8:06 AM

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Post #65 of 419 (586 views)
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[reply/]
Add to that the anti-democratic chicanery of Johnson and the UK really isn;t much better than a banana republic.


I know, that undemocratic Johnson, fancy trying to call a General Election in order to deliver a referendum result voted for by the people.


We are getting a General Election. After Johnson has obeyed the will of our sivereign Parliament.


007Dale
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Sep 7, 2019, 8:43 AM

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Post #66 of 419 (574 views)
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[reply/]
Add to that the anti-democratic chicanery of Johnson and the UK really isn;t much better than a banana republic.


I know, that undemocratic Johnson, fancy trying to call a General Election in order to deliver a referendum result voted for by the people.


No he doesn't, he wants to deliver a Brexit very few voted for and only a small percentage want.


I’m intrigued as to why, if as you say so few want this Brexit, why opposition parties are so frightened to have an election - it can only be because they know exactly who will win and why.

Pro-Brexit parties have won every national election since 2014. They’ll win the 2019 General Election whenever it comes. At worst, all this legislation has done is delay Brexit to 31st January, when Boris (with a new Parliament reflecting the will of the people) will enact a Brexit deal or no-deal. And as all this happens, labour continue to shed votes to parties with a clearly defined Brexit position.


PaulC
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Sep 7, 2019, 8:53 AM

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Post #67 of 419 (567 views)
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[reply/]
Add to that the anti-democratic chicanery of Johnson and the UK really isn;t much better than a banana republic.


I know, that undemocratic Johnson, fancy trying to call a General Election in order to deliver a referendum result voted for by the people.


No he doesn't, he wants to deliver a Brexit very few voted for and only a small percentage want.


I’m intrigued as to why, if as you say so few want this Brexit, why opposition parties are so frightened to have an election - it can only be because they know exactly who will win and why.

Pro-Brexit parties have won every national election since 2014. They’ll win the 2019 General Election whenever it comes. At worst, all this legislation has done is delay Brexit to 31st January, when Boris (with a new Parliament reflecting the will of the people) will enact a Brexit deal or no-deal. And as all this happens, labour continue to shed votes to parties with a clearly defined Brexit position.


You need to think things through rather than just recycle Tory press releases.

There will be a General Election. It will take place after 31 October.

15 October is what Johnson wants. He is begging, pleading for that date because two days later he has to report back to Brussels. How embarrassing will that be?

By 31 October he will probably be forced to resign because the PM will either have to beg for an extension or revoke Article50.

The opposition parties have him and the Tories by the short and curlies.

The Tory press spin the yarn about Corbyn being cowardly, those who believe what Tories tell them swallow it, whilst the reality is the opposition parties are playing a blinder, They have given Johnson and Cummings a thrashing.


PaulC
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Sep 7, 2019, 8:58 AM

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Post #68 of 419 (563 views)
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Oh, as for Pro Brexit parties winning n 2019, whenever it comes, study the latest poll.


ICM (Election Before Oct 31) - 2019-09-03
Con: 37%
Lab: 30%
LDem: 16%
BRX: 9%
Grn: 4%
SNP: 3%
UKIP: 1%
PC: 1%

Projection
Con: 340 (+22)
Lab: 217 (-45)
SNP: 41 (+6)
LDem: 30 (+18)
PC: 3 (-1)
Grn: 1 (-)
Changes w/ 2017



ICM (Election after Oct 31 and still in EU) - 2019-09-03
Lab: 28%
Con: 28%
BRX: 18%
LDem: 17%
Grn: 4%
SNP: 3%
UKIP: 2%
PC: 1%
CHUK: 0%


Projection
Con: 266 (-52)
Lab: 261 (-1)
SNP: 50 (+15)
LDem: 50 (+38)
PC: 3 (-1)
BRX: 1 (+1)
Grn: 1 (-)
Changes w/ 2017


MelChester
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Sep 7, 2019, 8:59 AM

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Post #69 of 419 (562 views)
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I said no deal not Brexit, they are very different.

The election thing has been explained to death, the other parties are not stupid.


PaulC
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Sep 7, 2019, 9:37 AM

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Post #70 of 419 (551 views)
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Marina Hyde’s opinion piece on Boris Johnson is a gem.


“As for his turns away from Westminster, Thursday afternoon found him at a Yorkshire police academy, where he appeared deeply confused. He resembled a political Elvis – twilight years – who’d had to be slapped awake on the tour bus by his manager, given some of his special medicine, and shoved on to greet the LA crowd with the words “Hello Philadelphia!” This, but in Wakefield.”

https://www.theguardian.com/...escort-conservatives


PaulC
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Sep 7, 2019, 9:49 AM

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Post #71 of 419 (546 views)
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“Yes, sir, of course you’re Prime Minister of the United Kingdom.”




MelChester
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Sep 7, 2019, 10:30 AM

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Post #72 of 419 (529 views)
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At the moment x 2!


007Dale
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Sep 7, 2019, 11:30 AM

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Post #73 of 419 (507 views)
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This is so funny, one fact destroys all this Remain propaganda; Jeremy Corbyn will still be Labour leader after 31st October.

The U.K. will not elect a hard-left Government, before or after the 31st October.

Post any Opinion Poll you can find, it doesn’t matter, because when the British are eventually allowed to go to the polls, the Brexit supporting parties will win. They’ve won actual elections consistently over the last six years.

The country still wants to leave, we will leave. 31st October, 31st January or any date in between.

I’ll let you go and find another opinion poll to stand behind...


MelChester
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Sep 7, 2019, 12:23 PM

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Post #74 of 419 (487 views)
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Of course they won't elect a far left government, like they won't elect a far right one either. Both the Tories and Labour have alienated many supporters to move to the centre ground. If pacts are not formed 4 or 5 parties will get a reasonable number of seats and no one will be in overall control. We will probably have a situation where the party that gets the most votes (not seats) will not be in power


PaulC
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Sep 7, 2019, 12:40 PM

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Post #75 of 419 (482 views)
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Post any Opinion Poll you can find, it doesn’t matter, because when the British are eventually allowed to go to the polls, the Brexit supporting parties will win.


Can you explain why the polls shows supporters of pro-Brexit supporters are now in the minority?

In the absence of Yatesman, you are doing a great job on his behalf, arguing against reality.

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