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Home: Games: Twenty Questions:
Twenty Questions #986

 



John Treleven
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     Twenty Questions #986   or Reply Privately

Another person and the reason


paulh66
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Jul 4, 2017, 11:09 AM

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     Re: [John Treleven] Twenty Questions #986 [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

A full international?


John Treleven
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     Re: [paulh66] Twenty Questions #986 [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

Not a full international


Karb
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Jul 4, 2017, 12:15 PM

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     Re: [John Treleven] Twenty Questions #986 [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

Nice finish to #985

Is our person male?



"People do not have moments of truth in station waiting rooms"


John Treleven
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     Re: [Karb] Twenty Questions #986 [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

Yes, male


Ronsdog
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Jul 4, 2017, 12:35 PM

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     Re: [John Treleven] Twenty Questions #986 [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

 

A British bloke?


John Treleven
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     Re: [Ronsdog] Twenty Questions #986 [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

Yes, British


Ropemaker
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Jul 4, 2017, 2:43 PM

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Post #8 of 127 (5269 views)
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     Re: [John Treleven] Twenty Questions #986 [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

Alive?



Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get you.


John Treleven
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Jul 4, 2017, 3:13 PM

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     Re: [Ropemaker] Twenty Questions #986 [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

No longer with us


Cantab Towner
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Jul 4, 2017, 4:48 PM

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Post #10 of 127 (5251 views)
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     Re: [John Treleven] Twenty Questions #986 [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

Born before 1st Jan 1940?


Tykeoldboy
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Jul 4, 2017, 5:03 PM

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Post #11 of 127 (5249 views)
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     Re: [Cantab Towner] Twenty Questions #986 [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

Played in an FA Cup final?



The feeling of utter devastation when you pick up your mug and realise you already finished your tea.


John Treleven
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Jul 4, 2017, 5:10 PM

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     Re: [Cantab Towner] Twenty Questions #986 [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

Yes born pre 1940


John Treleven
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     Re: [Tykeoldboy] Twenty Questions #986 [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

This one did not play in an F.A. Cup final


Ronsdog
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Jul 5, 2017, 12:08 AM

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     Re: [John Treleven] Twenty Questions #986 [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

 

Surname A-M ?

(copyright duly noted, temporarily lifted whilst you're in the chair)

Wink


John Treleven
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     Re: [Ronsdog] Twenty Questions #986 [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

Yes surname A-M


Karb
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Jul 5, 2017, 7:46 AM

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     Re: [John Treleven] Twenty Questions #986 [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

Best known for playing football?



"People do not have moments of truth in station waiting rooms"


John Treleven
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     Re: [Karb] Twenty Questions #986 [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

Yes best known as a footballer


Ropemaker
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Jul 5, 2017, 2:21 PM

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     Re: [John Treleven] Twenty Questions #986 [In reply to]   or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Yes best known as a footballer

Before WW1?



Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get you.


John Treleven
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     Re: [Ropemaker] Twenty Questions #986 [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

Played after WW1


Cantab Towner
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Jul 5, 2017, 8:59 PM

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     Re: [John Treleven] Twenty Questions #986 [In reply to]   or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Yes, British

English?


John Treleven
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     Re: [Cantab Towner] Twenty Questions #986 [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

Yes, English


paulh66
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Jul 5, 2017, 11:11 PM

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     Re: [John Treleven] Twenty Questions #986 [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

Did he play in the Football League for either a Devon or Dorset club?


Ronsdog
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Jul 6, 2017, 1:00 AM

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     Re: [John Treleven] Twenty Questions #986 [In reply to]   or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Yes surname A-M


Surname G-K ?


John Treleven
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     Re: [paulh66] Twenty Questions #986 [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

He did not play in the Football League for either a Devon or Dorset club


John Treleven
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     Re: [Ronsdog] Twenty Questions #986 [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

Surname not G-K


Karb
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     Re: [John Treleven] Twenty Questions #986 [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

Is our man mostly associated with a single club?



"People do not have moments of truth in station waiting rooms"


John Treleven
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     Re: [Karb] Twenty Questions #986 [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

He played for numerous clubs


Tykeoldboy
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Jul 6, 2017, 4:42 PM

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     Re: [John Treleven] Twenty Questions #986 [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

Did he play in any of the first 4 seasons of the football league (before the second division was added)?



The feeling of utter devastation when you pick up your mug and realise you already finished your tea.


John Treleven
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     Re: [Tykeoldboy] Twenty Questions #986 [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

No he did not play in the first four seasons of the league.


Ropemaker
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Jul 6, 2017, 5:20 PM

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Post #30 of 127 (2296 views)
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     Re: [John Treleven] Twenty Questions #986 [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

Known/chosen for a first/record?



Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get you.


John Treleven
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     Re: [Ropemaker] Twenty Questions #986 [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

He has an unusual achievement but not unique


paulh66
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Jul 6, 2017, 7:16 PM

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     Re: [John Treleven] Twenty Questions #986 [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

A goalkeeper?


John Treleven
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     Re: [paulh66] Twenty Questions #986 [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

Not a goalkeeper


Ronsdog
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Jul 7, 2017, 12:57 AM

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     Re: [John Treleven] Twenty Questions #986 [In reply to]   or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Surname not G-K


A-C?


John Treleven
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     Re: [Ronsdog] Twenty Questions #986 [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

Yes A-C


Tykeoldboy
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Jul 7, 2017, 3:56 PM

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     Re: [John Treleven] Twenty Questions #986 [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

A forward player? (in those black & white days a forward player would be outside right , inside right, centre forward, inside left and outside left)



The feeling of utter devastation when you pick up your mug and realise you already finished your tea.


Ropemaker
Man City Transfer Target!

Jul 7, 2017, 4:35 PM

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     Re: [John Treleven] Twenty Questions #986 [In reply to]   or Reply Privately


In Reply To
He has an unusual achievement but not unique

Connected to a single match?



Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get you.


John Treleven
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Jul 7, 2017, 4:44 PM

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     Re: [Tykeoldboy] Twenty Questions #986 [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

I am old enough to know what those positions are/were
No, not a forward


John Treleven
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     Re: [Ropemaker] Twenty Questions #986 [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

Not connected to a single match


Karb
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Jul 7, 2017, 4:58 PM

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     Re: [John Treleven] Twenty Questions #986 [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

Born before 01/01/1920?



"People do not have moments of truth in station waiting rooms"


John Treleven
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     Re: [Karb] Twenty Questions #986 [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

born in or after 1920


(This post was edited by John Treleven on Jul 7, 2017, 5:00 PM)


Ropemaker
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Jul 8, 2017, 1:07 AM

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     Re: [John Treleven] Twenty Questions #986 [In reply to]   or Reply Privately


In Reply To
He has an unusual achievement but not unique

Connected to a single club?



Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get you.


John Treleven
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Jul 8, 2017, 5:58 AM

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Location: Jersey
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Post #43 of 127 (2100 views)
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     Re: [Ropemaker] Twenty Questions #986 [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

He was involved with more than one club


Ropemaker
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Jul 8, 2017, 11:13 AM

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     Re: [John Treleven] Twenty Questions #986 [In reply to]   or Reply Privately


In Reply To
He was involved with more than one club

Just for clarification John

Is our man's achievement connected to more than one of his clubs?



Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get you.


John Treleven
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Jul 8, 2017, 1:04 PM

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     Re: [Ropemaker] Twenty Questions #986 [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

Yes for more than one team


Ronsdog
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Jul 9, 2017, 3:56 AM

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     Re: [John Treleven] Twenty Questions #986 [In reply to]   or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Yes A-C


B?


John Treleven
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     Re: [Ronsdog] Twenty Questions #986 [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

No, surname is A or C


Karb
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Jul 9, 2017, 8:29 AM

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     Re: [John Treleven] Twenty Questions #986 [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

Surname C?



"People do not have moments of truth in station waiting rooms"


John Treleven
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Jul 9, 2017, 8:30 AM

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     Re: [Karb] Twenty Questions #986 [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

Yes surname C


Ropemaker
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Jul 9, 2017, 11:08 AM

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     Re: [John Treleven] Twenty Questions #986 [In reply to]   or Reply Privately


In Reply To
He has an unusual achievement but not unique

Did this involve more than one season?



Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get you.


John Treleven
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Jul 9, 2017, 11:30 AM

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Post #51 of 127 (2628 views)
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     Re: [Ropemaker] Twenty Questions #986 [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

Same season


paulh66
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Jul 9, 2017, 12:00 PM

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     Re: [John Treleven] Twenty Questions #986 [In reply to]   or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Same season


Was he with a team that won a league title or a major cup in that particular season?


John Treleven
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Jul 9, 2017, 12:08 PM

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     Re: [paulh66] Twenty Questions #986 [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

Not a league title or major cup winner


Tykeoldboy
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Jul 9, 2017, 3:03 PM

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     Re: [John Treleven] Twenty Questions #986 [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

Was the club he made most appearances for from either Lancashire or the North-East?



The feeling of utter devastation when you pick up your mug and realise you already finished your tea.


John Treleven
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Jul 9, 2017, 3:21 PM

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     Re: [Tykeoldboy] Twenty Questions #986 [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

The club he made most appearances for was neither
Lancashire or North-East


Ronsdog
First Team Star


Jul 10, 2017, 10:12 AM

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     Re: [John Treleven] Twenty Questions #986 [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

 

Did his achievement involve goalscoring?


paulh66
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Jul 10, 2017, 11:02 AM

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     Re: [John Treleven] Twenty Questions #986 [In reply to]   or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Same season


Was he with a team that got relegated that season?


John Treleven
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Jul 10, 2017, 12:20 PM

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     Re: [Ronsdog] Twenty Questions #986 [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

Nothing to do with goalscoring


John Treleven
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Jul 10, 2017, 12:22 PM

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     Re: [paulh66] Twenty Questions #986 [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

His team was not relegated that season


Karb
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Jul 10, 2017, 12:23 PM

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Post #60 of 127 (2504 views)
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     Re: [John Treleven] Twenty Questions #986 [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

First initial (of the name he's most commonly known by) A-M?



"People do not have moments of truth in station waiting rooms"


John Treleven
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Jul 10, 2017, 12:36 PM

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     Re: [Karb] Twenty Questions #986 [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

Yes first name A-M


Tykeoldboy
Chelsea Transfer Target


Jul 10, 2017, 1:42 PM

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Post #62 of 127 (2489 views)
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     Re: [John Treleven] Twenty Questions #986 [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

This is an appearance record of some sort (youngest, longest, oldest, most, etc)?



The feeling of utter devastation when you pick up your mug and realise you already finished your tea.


John Treleven
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Jul 10, 2017, 3:49 PM

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     Re: [Tykeoldboy] Twenty Questions #986 [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

It is an appearance record of "some sort"


Ropemaker
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Jul 10, 2017, 10:11 PM

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     Re: [John Treleven] Twenty Questions #986 [In reply to]   or Reply Privately


In Reply To
It is an appearance record of "some sort"

Involving playing for A v B and for B v A in the same season, or similar?



Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get you.


Ronsdog
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Jul 11, 2017, 1:16 AM

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     Re: [John Treleven] Twenty Questions #986 [In reply to]   or Reply Privately


In Reply To
It is an appearance record of "some sort"


Does his achievement involve one or both of Tottenham and Arsenal?


John Treleven
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Jul 11, 2017, 8:25 AM

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     Re: [Ropemaker] Twenty Questions #986 [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

Not involvlng playing for and against same team


John Treleven
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Jul 11, 2017, 8:26 AM

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     Re: [Ronsdog] Twenty Questions #986 [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

Neither Tottenham or Arsenal involved


Karb
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Jul 11, 2017, 12:59 PM

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     Re: [John Treleven] Twenty Questions #986 [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

Does his achievement relate to the terms or manner of his transfer?



"People do not have moments of truth in station waiting rooms"


John Treleven
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Jul 11, 2017, 1:01 PM

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     Re: [Karb] Twenty Questions #986 [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

Not transfer related


Ropemaker
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Jul 11, 2017, 5:54 PM

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     Re: [John Treleven] Twenty Questions #986 [In reply to]   or Reply Privately


In Reply To
The club he made most appearances for was neither Lancashire or North-East

I've lost track a bit here John so just to clarify

Have we established whether or not our man's achievement involves Lancs and/or NE clubs?

Cheers



Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get you.


John Treleven
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Jul 11, 2017, 5:59 PM

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     Re: [Ropemaker] Twenty Questions #986 [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

No, not involving any Lancs/North-East club(s)


Ropemaker
Man City Transfer Target!

Jul 11, 2017, 6:11 PM

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If that had already been established, can I ask another Q?

If it hadn't, well, it has now anyway! Smile



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John Treleven
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It had already been answered so go again


Ropemaker
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Thanks

Any London or Yorkshire teams involved in the achievement?



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John Treleven
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not playing for London or Yorkshire teams


Karb
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First name G-M?



"People do not have moments of truth in station waiting rooms"


John Treleven
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Yes first name G-M


paulh66
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In Reply To
Same season


A pre WW2 season?


John Treleven
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Post war


Ropemaker
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In Reply To
Same season

1946/47-1959/60 inc?



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John Treleven
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Yes 46-47 to 59-60


Ronsdog
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In Reply To
Yes 46-47 to 59-60


Does his achievement relate to or involve Midlands derbies?


paulh66
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Were both his teams in the same division in the season in question?


John Treleven
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It does not involve Midland derbies


John Treleven
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His teams were not in the same division


Karb
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Were both clubs among the 92 (or 88) at the time?



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John Treleven
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One of his teams was in the 88/92 at the time, the other was not


Tykeoldboy
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Does this involve playing in both the FA Cup Final and the FA Amateur Cup Final?



The feeling of utter devastation when you pick up your mug and realise you already finished your tea.


John Treleven
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Not playing in both the FA Cup Final and the FA Amateur Cup Final but the right thought process


Ropemaker
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In Reply To
Not playing in both the FA Cup Final and the FA Amateur Cup Final but the right thought process

Played in both FA Cup/Amateur Cup competitions, if not the finals?



Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get you.


John Treleven
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Not an F.A. Cup/Amateur Cup playing double


paulh66
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Stan Crowther, played in the 1957/8 FA Cup competition for two different clubs. Signed by Man U after the Munich crash and just before their FA Cup tie with Sheff Wed, he'd normally have been cup tied having played for Villa in an earlier round but was given special dispensation by the FA to play for United and ended up going to Wembley with them.


John Treleven
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That was answer to the previous quiz


paulh66
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Been a long, long day! Blush


Ropemaker
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In Reply To
Yes 46-47 to 59-60

46/47-52/53 inc?



Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get you.


paulh66
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     Re: [John Treleven] Twenty Questions #986 [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

Did he play in a FA Amateur Cup final?


John Treleven
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53-54 to 59-60


John Treleven
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Post #98 of 127 (1548 views)
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He did not play in an F.A. Amateur Cup Final


Karb
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First name G-I?



"People do not have moments of truth in station waiting rooms"


Tykeoldboy
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Post #100 of 127 (1505 views)
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Did he play for a professional club outside England & Wales?



The feeling of utter devastation when you pick up your mug and realise you already finished your tea.


John Treleven
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First name not G-I


John Treleven
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I not aware of him playing for a professional club outside England & Wales


paulh66
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In Reply To
53-54 to 59-60


57/8?


Ronsdog
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Does his achievement involve the Inter Cities Fairs Cup?


John Treleven
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Yes 1957-58


John Treleven
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Not Inter-Cities Fairs Cup


Tykeoldboy
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Post #107 of 127 (1567 views)
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What about the European Cup?



The feeling of utter devastation when you pick up your mug and realise you already finished your tea.


John Treleven
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Not European Cup either


foreststag
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Jul 15, 2017, 11:56 PM

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Is it John Charles?


foreststag
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You said earlier not a full international so it can't be


Ronsdog
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Did his achievement occur whilst playing for Wolves/Villa/Birmingham/WBA ?


paulh66
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Is there a connection to the Munich air crash?


John Treleven
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Not John Charles


John Treleven
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Confirming not a full international


John Treleven
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Yes, one of his teams involved in this was one of Wolves/Villa/Birmingham/WBA


John Treleven
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Not connected to Munich air crash


Karb
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Post #117 of 127 (1440 views)
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First initial J?



"People do not have moments of truth in station waiting rooms"


John Treleven
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First name not J


mip
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In Reply To
Yes, one of his teams involved in this was one of Wolves/Villa/Birmingham/WBA


Wolves?


John Treleven
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Yes, one of his teams involved in this was Wolves


Ropemaker
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Post #121 of 127 (1332 views)
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In Reply To
Yes, one of his teams involved in this was Wolves

In a FL match?



Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get you.


Ronsdog
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mip
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Has our bloke won the FA Youth Cup?


Ronsdog
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 Is our man Les Cocker?

Youth cup winner in 57/58 but only figured in one league game for Wolves.

He broke the hearts of both Bobby Moore and Jimmy Greaves......

http://www.wolvesheroes.com/...-the-broken-hearted/


(This post was edited by Ronsdog on Jul 17, 2017, 12:56 AM)


John Treleven
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not in a F.L. match


John Treleven
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Yes he had a F.A. Youth Cup winners medal


John Treleven
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*** GOAL ***

Les Cocker (Wolves, Wellington Town pre Telford, Arcadia Shepherds of South Africa, Kidderminster, Stourbridge, Dudley, Darlaston and Lower Gornal)

Not to be confused with the similarly named Leeds and England trainer.

This Les Cocker died earlier this year, aged 77.

In 1957-58 he was on the winning team in both F.A. Youth Cup (Wolves) and F.A. County Youth Cup (Staffordshire) but although he was also an England Youth international he was to make just one Football League appearance.


How’s this for an apparent fall from grace? (2010)

On February 4, 1961, Les Cocker underpinned his status as an FA Youth Cup winner with Wolves and an England age-group international by making his Football League debut.

Five weeks later, he signed permanently for Wellington Town.

It sounds a nightmare descent, but the move was quite palatable to the 21-year-old, who was to have his best days in senior football when he headed for South Africa several years later.

So why did he happily accept a career path that looks sharply downward on the face of it?
“I had a job in engineering as well and was happy to pursue that alongside playing a good class of non-League football,” he now says.

“Other clubs, such as Shrewsbury, were interested in me while I was at Wolves but I felt very wanted by Wellington and they were in the Southern League premier division.

“I had felt messed about by Stan Cullis at times and had only played that one game in the first team because Jimmy Murray was ruled out at short notice.

“So I jumped at the chance of going to Wellington and stayed there for five years or so.”

Cocker’s one and only Football League appearance came when he lined up at inside-forward in a 2-1 defeat at Blackburn nine months on from when the two clubs had met, with a contrasting outcome, in the 1960 FA Cup final.

He was a wing-half in his earlier Molineux career but the fact that Ron Flowers and Eddie Clamp filled those roles at Ewood Park on either side of skipper and centre-half Bill Slater underlined how difficult breaking through in that area was always likely to be.

Cocker still lives with wife Wendy a few miles east of Wellington, in Newport, but it was a call from the Southern Hemisphere that took them far away from their Wolverhampton roots in the middle of the swinging sixties.

Wolves were well known in South Africa, having toured there to great acclaim in 1951 and 1957 and recruited the likes of Eddie Stuart, Des Horne and Cliff Durandt from the republic with considerable success.

But this was a new trend…..a player well known at Molineux heading the other way to make a living.

“Brian Punter, who got as far as the Wolves reserve team, followed me out to South Africa and lads like Barry Stobart, Johnny Kirkham, Mickey Lill, Fred Kemp and Terry Wharton also went but I think I was the first,” Cocker added.

“I was out there when England won the World Cup and I thoroughly enjoyed it, although our children were only something like four and two.

“We were very well looked after and the money was pretty good. All the players were part-time professionals and I had an engineering job as well, so our standard of living was excellent.

“Clubs over there had wealthy owners and there was also a lively social scene which we enjoyed.

“I remember we drove once to the Drakensburg Mountains, where the Zulus are from, and saw Victoria Falls and Kruger Park, so we made the most of the experience.

“I played in Pretoria for Arcadia United, who were in the top division, but it’s a big country and we were flown to the away matches in Cape Town, Durban, Port Elizabeth and so on, although Johannesburg was only just down the road.

“We did pretty well in my two seasons and reached a cup final which we lost.

“We had gates of around 15,000 and a club called Highlands Park in Johannesburg were after me when we had our first return trip home paid for after the second season.

“But Wendy was terribly seasick for most of the two and a half weeks on the journey from Cape Town and always missed her family a lot, so we never went back.

“Career-wise, it would have made sense to return to South Africa but you have to put your loved ones first and I went off to play instead for John Charles at Hereford and then did the rounds with Kidderminster, Stourbridge, Dudley, Darlaston and Lower Gornal.”

Cocker, not to be confused with the late former England and Leeds trainer of the same name, ran his own engineering business in the West Midlands but is now retired.


Moore and Greaves – The Broken Hearted (2010)

Cocker’s Role In Duo’s Despair

Nine days ago, we told the story of how Les Cocker became a trend setter by leaving Wolves and Wolverhampton behind in search of a new football life in South Africa.

In this the accent switches to how the former Molineux hopeful not only lined up as a team-mate of Bobby Moore in England’s youth team but also broke his heart as an opponent – and in the same summer that he had the last laugh on Jimmy Greaves.

“A lot of people remember that Jimmy was playing and regularly scoring for the Chelsea side who we beat in the FA Youth Cup final in 1958,” Cocker says.

“He was their star man and I remember he was in tears when we went up to receive the cup and our medals at Molineux.

“He had dominated the first leg and Stan Cullis gave us a rollicking over how we’d played when we lost 5-1 down there.

“But the manager was away on a first-team tour when we played the second leg and it was as if we were being punished. None of our kit had been put out and we had to go rummaging for it in the whicker baskets.

“Maybe he had told the staff not to molly-coddle us. He probably had a right shock when he heard Ted Farmer had scored all those goals and we won 6-1 in the return.”

What is not so well known is that Cocker, who had scored away to Aston Villa and Stoke in a victorious Youth Cup run in which Wolves played no fewer than 12 matches, was celebrating again later that summer.

Having gone with the club to a youth tournament in Germany and scored five goals in four games from wing-half, he skippered Staffordshire against London in the final of the FA County Youth Cup.

“This time it was Bobby Moore who was in tears,” he added. “He was playing for London, so was Barry Bridges, but we beat them 8-0 over two legs – first at QPR and then at Walsall.

“I then played a lot of games with Bobby in the England youth team and remember turning up for my debut and finding a good-luck telegram from Billy Wright on my peg.

“I wasn’t the only Wolves player in that side, though. Brian Perry, who had scored in the final against Chelsea, was also part of it."

 
 


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