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Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town

 

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Isaac
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Oct 21, 2019, 4:28 PM

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Re: [kirby knitters] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

7,45pm at Coles Park, no mention of anybody being banned and nor should there be.

It seems wrong that the penalty Yeovil scored from now counts for nothing.


kirby knitters
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Re: [Chris1963] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Didn't think for a minute they would change the habit of a lifetime but the option was available if they wanted to use it in the strange circumstances.


Chris1963
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Didn't think for a minute they would change the habit of a lifetime but the option was available if they wanted to use it in the strange circumstances.


Yes, the option is available, but only by default as neither UEFA or FIFA have issued any rule about it. But as Yeovil were leading 1-0 at the time, Haringey would be pretty unhappy if the game was restarted from that point!


kirby knitters
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Re: [kirby knitters] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Salford fans are the latest to come under scrutiny after Police heard songs offensive to the traveller community being sung at Northampton on Saturday.


Bigaitch
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Re: [Isaac] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

And surely the abuse directed at this girl and pregnant lady are every bit as bad as any racism? The whole issue of behaviour at football needs to be addressed including on the pitch and in the dugouts, the respect campaign has been nothing more than a cosmetic exercise.

Two arrests have been made in conjunction with the incidents on Saturday.


Best post I have read on here for ages. Spot on.....


Geoff
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Re: [Doobs] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Maybe Haringey should have had sufficient (and suitably burly) stewards & police to be able to eject the preparators but even if they had and the thugs had been removes &/or arrested the damage had already been done.
I saw the faces of the players who had been abused and they were clearly seriously affected, as were several innocent spectators closer to the incident than I was. Whether the players were in a fit mental state to continue, even if the match had gone ahead without further problems is questionable. For what it is worth, in my opinion, to force or even expect them to do so would have been unfair.
I heard no criticism of the stewarding, Haringey Borough, Yeovil, (or their fans in general) or the decision to abandon the game. The only people I heard anyone blaming for the events were the handful of people acting in an abusive, racist fashion, who were universally condemned by all those who I spoke to regardless of their allegiances (i.e. those who were actually there).
Personally I think a replay is probably the right decision and I can see no justification in imposing sanctions against either club. Holding either club responsible for the actions of a few idiots which could not have reasonably been forseen seems both unfair and vindictive.
The home club is well known for being friendly and inclusive. They may have been naïve not to anticipate this sort of behaviour but the friendly atmosphere & the lack of abuse to opponents which is all too common at many if not most other grounds is totally absent at White Hart Lane. Remember they had similar high profile games last season (v Orient & Wimbledon) without problems, why should they expect anything different this time?


youngster
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Re: [Steveb] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

 

“the PC brigade, who've hijacked the word racism and almost redefined it over the last couple of decades” ... this statement is on a par with anything that begins “I’m not a racist but ...”


Typical response from the leader of the PC brigade in his rose tinted glasses. Many have said on here that they’ve hardly ever come across racial abuse, my only experience was making the mistake of walking into a black pub in a Ipswich in the late 70’s, us minority whites were left in no doubt where we stood, it was their pub, and it wasn’t the only one in those days. I’m pleased to report I have no knowledge of the local white population treating the blacks like this. Thankfully Ipswich has lived in racial harmony for the past 40 years, but as we all know, racism appears to only work one way. I’m not a racist, I’m a realist who tells the truth.


cherryhopper
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Re: [youngster] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

And Haringey Borough's 'reward' if they beat Yeovil will be a home tie vs Hartlepool United, another club with previous on racist incidents this season.


Isaac
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Re: [kirby knitters] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Salford fans are the latest to come under scrutiny after Police heard songs offensive to the traveller community being sung at Northampton on Saturday.


According to a Northampton fan the word pikey was mentioned, nobody seemed to be offended and he doubted whether it would have been mentioned if it weren't for the incident at Haringey.


Isaac
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Re: [youngster] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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“the PC brigade, who've hijacked the word racism and almost redefined it over the last couple of decades” ... this statement is on a par with anything that begins “I’m not a racist but ...”


Typical response from the leader of the PC brigade in his rose tinted glasses. Many have said on here that they’ve hardly ever come across racial abuse, my only experience was making the mistake of walking into a black pub in a Ipswich in the late 70’s, us minority whites were left in no doubt where we stood, it was their pub, and it wasn’t the only one in those days. I’m pleased to report I have no knowledge of the local white population treating the blacks like this. Thankfully Ipswich has lived in racial harmony for the past 40 years, but as we all know, racism appears to only work one way. I’m not a racist, I’m a realist who tells the truth.


Excellent post sir.


Isaac
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Oct 21, 2019, 8:53 PM

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Re: [Geoff] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Maybe Haringey should have had sufficient (and suitably burly) stewards & police to be able to eject the preparators but even if they had and the thugs had been removes &/or arrested the damage had already been done.
I saw the faces of the players who had been abused and they were clearly seriously affected, as were several innocent spectators closer to the incident than I was. Whether the players were in a fit mental state to continue, even if the match had gone ahead without further problems is questionable. For what it is worth, in my opinion, to force or even expect them to do so would have been unfair.
I heard no criticism of the stewarding, Haringey Borough, Yeovil, (or their fans in general) or the decision to abandon the game. The only people I heard anyone blaming for the events were the handful of people acting in an abusive, racist fashion, who were universally condemned by all those who I spoke to regardless of their allegiances (i.e. those who were actually there).
Personally I think a replay is probably the right decision and I can see no justification in imposing sanctions against either club. Holding either club responsible for the actions of a few idiots which could not have reasonably been forseen seems both unfair and vindictive.
The home club is well known for being friendly and inclusive. They may have been naïve not to anticipate this sort of behaviour but the friendly atmosphere & the lack of abuse to opponents which is all too common at many if not most other grounds is totally absent at White Hart Lane. Remember they had similar high profile games last season (v Orient & Wimbledon) without problems, why should they expect anything different this time?


I think you've answered your own question as to why HB didn't have enough stewards or police and if perpetrators were ejected then what? Are they just going to toddle off home or are they going to cause more problems outside the ground? And if the police arrest them it takes officers away from the game and something more serious might occur in their absence.

I don't accept that HB players were too traumatised to continue and I don't see why the game couldn't have been played to a finish once some sort of order was restored. For the HB manager to ask the referee if he could gaurntee the safety of his players was ridiculous, how can any referee at any game possibly gaurntee that?

I suppose replaying the game was the only option, I just feel sorry for the fans. In the interests of fair play I think the game should start with a walk in goal for Yeovil.


kirby knitters
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Oct 21, 2019, 9:04 PM

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Post #62 of 125 (2815 views)
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Re: [Isaac] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Salford fans are the latest to come under scrutiny after Police heard songs offensive to the traveller community being sung at Northampton on Saturday.


According to a Northampton fan the word pikey was mentioned, nobody seemed to be offended and he doubted whether it would have been mentioned if it weren't for the incident at Haringey.

Who's the pikey on the hill. That is what was sung by a few Salford fans and the only person offended was an on duty Police officer, and this good body of men claim to be overworked!!! Hardly in the same category as Hartlepool or Haringey but no doubt now the subject of an FA inquiry.


Chris1963
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Oct 21, 2019, 9:32 PM

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Post #63 of 125 (2738 views)
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Re: [Isaac] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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In Reply To

“the PC brigade, who've hijacked the word racism and almost redefined it over the last couple of decades” ... this statement is on a par with anything that begins “I’m not a racist but ...”


Typical response from the leader of the PC brigade in his rose tinted glasses. Many have said on here that they’ve hardly ever come across racial abuse, my only experience was making the mistake of walking into a black pub in a Ipswich in the late 70’s, us minority whites were left in no doubt where we stood, it was their pub, and it wasn’t the only one in those days. I’m pleased to report I have no knowledge of the local white population treating the blacks like this. Thankfully Ipswich has lived in racial harmony for the past 40 years, but as we all know, racism appears to only work one way. I’m not a racist, I’m a realist who tells the truth.


Excellent post sir.


Is there really a black pub in Ipswich? I don't think I've even seen a black person on my numerous visits to the town!

I'd love to know which pub it is, so that I can go and have a drink there myself next time I'm in Ipswich.


Chris1963
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Re: [kirby knitters] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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In Reply To

In Reply To
Salford fans are the latest to come under scrutiny after Police heard songs offensive to the traveller community being sung at Northampton on Saturday.


According to a Northampton fan the word pikey was mentioned, nobody seemed to be offended and he doubted whether it would have been mentioned if it weren't for the incident at Haringey.

Who's the pikey on the hill. That is what was sung by a few Salford fans and the only person offended was an on duty Police officer, and this good body of men claim to be overworked!!! Hardly in the same category as Hartlepool or Haringey but no doubt now the subject of an FA inquiry.


Why is Northampton specifically associated with travellers? As far as I know, they tend to be fairly evenly distributed all over England.


kirby knitters
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Oct 21, 2019, 9:43 PM

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Re: [Chris1963] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Loads of travellers sites in Northants for whatever reason. I remember a court case last year when many were put away because of violence in the Desborough area.


Cris
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Oct 21, 2019, 10:02 PM

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Re: [youngster] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

“the PC brigade, who've hijacked the word racism and almost redefined it over the last couple of decades” ... this statement is on a par with anything that begins “I’m not a racist but ...”


Typical response from the leader of the PC brigade in his rose tinted glasses. Many have said on here that they’ve hardly ever come across racial abuse, my only experience was making the mistake of walking into a black pub in a Ipswich in the late 70’s, us minority whites were left in no doubt where we stood, it was their pub, and it wasn’t the only one in those days. I’m pleased to report I have no knowledge of the local white population treating the blacks like this. Thankfully Ipswich has lived in racial harmony for the past 40 years, but as we all know, racism appears to only work one way. I’m not a racist, I’m a realist who tells the truth.


Have you considered that the reason there were “black pubs” was because of the racism experienced in other pubs? Given the rampant racism experienced by black people in the 70s it’s hardly surprising they’d not be particularly comfortable about a group of white people coming in to one of the few safe places the community could get together. You were not the victim of racism.

You having no knowledge of racism, does not mean it wasn’t happening and the idea Ipswich has lived in “racial harmony” for 40 years can pretty quickly be dispelled with a quick google search.

Racism does work one way, white people are not disadvantaged because of their race, black and Asian people are.

Don’t refer to a group of people as “the blacks”, it’s flat out racist language.


(This post was edited by Cris on Oct 21, 2019, 10:05 PM)


Cris
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Oct 21, 2019, 10:12 PM

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Re: [kirby knitters] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Loads of travellers sites in Northants for whatever reason. I remember a court case last year when many were put away because of violence in the Desborough area.


Would that be the case where a local drug gang went to a traveller site and shot a 17 year old boy? The vast majority of those convicted and imprisoned over incident were locals not travellers. Apologies if these facts are an inconvenience to anyone’s agenda.


kirby knitters
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Loads of travellers sites in Northants for whatever reason. I remember a court case last year when many were put away because of violence in the Desborough area.


Would that be the case where a local drug gang went to a traveller site and shot a 17 year old boy? The vast majority of those convicted and imprisoned over incident were locals not travellers. Apologies if these facts are an inconvenience to anyone’s agenda.

Yes that's the one and no agenda on my part and just googled it and many of those convicted were from the area. Suggests all involved were criminal gangs involved in drugs.


mick
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Re: [Cris] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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You were not the victim of racism.


As you know that youngster was not subject to racial abuse in Ipswich in the 1970s, even though you were not there, no doubt you are also equally certain that my friends and I were not subject to such abuse when also attempting to enter a pub (in Birmingham) in the same decade ... .
... but, there again, referring to a group of people as "honkys" is apparently not racist according to you as "racism works one way". Presumably you believe the people at that pub threateniing us "honkys" with serious violence if we did not leave immediately would have made the same threats against non-whiite persons trying to enter i.e they were not racist, just violent.


(This post was edited by mick on Oct 21, 2019, 10:46 PM)


Cris
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Oct 21, 2019, 10:47 PM

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Re: [kirby knitters] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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In Reply To

In Reply To
Loads of travellers sites in Northants for whatever reason. I remember a court case last year when many were put away because of violence in the Desborough area.


Would that be the case where a local drug gang went to a traveller site and shot a 17 year old boy? The vast majority of those convicted and imprisoned over incident were locals not travellers. Apologies if these facts are an inconvenience to anyone’s agenda.

Yes that's the one and no agenda on my part and just googled it and many of those convicted were from the area. Suggests all involved were criminal gangs involved in drugs.


I haven’t seen any reports suggesting any of the travellers were part of a drug gang, it is reported that they were involved in a dispute about drugs, the reports are also clear that the 17 year old victim had not been involved in the dispute.

Your original post, only referring to many travellers being locked up, rather than reflecting the reality, plays in to the narrative that travellers are responsible for large amounts of crime, when in reality they are more often victims rather than perpetrators.


Isaac
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In Reply To

In Reply To

“the PC brigade, who've hijacked the word racism and almost redefined it over the last couple of decades” ... this statement is on a par with anything that begins “I’m not a racist but ...”


Typical response from the leader of the PC brigade in his rose tinted glasses. Many have said on here that they’ve hardly ever come across racial abuse, my only experience was making the mistake of walking into a black pub in a Ipswich in the late 70’s, us minority whites were left in no doubt where we stood, it was their pub, and it wasn’t the only one in those days. I’m pleased to report I have no knowledge of the local white population treating the blacks like this. Thankfully Ipswich has lived in racial harmony for the past 40 years, but as we all know, racism appears to only work one way. I’m not a racist, I’m a realist who tells the truth.


Have you considered that the reason there were “black pubs” was because of the racism experienced in other pubs? Given the rampant racism experienced by black people in the 70s it’s hardly surprising they’d not be particularly comfortable about a group of white people coming in to one of the few safe places the community could get together. You were not the victim of racism.

You having no knowledge of racism, does not mean it wasn’t happening and the idea Ipswich has lived in “racial harmony” for 40 years can pretty quickly be dispelled with a quick google search.

Racism does work one way, white people are not disadvantaged because of their race, black and Asian people are.

Don’t refer to a group of people as “the blacks”, it’s flat out racist language.


What planet are you on? Calling a group of black people 'the blacks', is racist? Do you know some call themselves the n word? Racism only works one way? Really? I don't know about Ipswich but certainly in South London there were pubs where white people weren't welcome, oh but according to you it's because they've been made unwelcome in white pubs? I don't think I've ever read such rubbish quite honestly.


kirby knitters
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In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Loads of travellers sites in Northants for whatever reason. I remember a court case last year when many were put away because of violence in the Desborough area.


Would that be the case where a local drug gang went to a traveller site and shot a 17 year old boy? The vast majority of those convicted and imprisoned over incident were locals not travellers. Apologies if these facts are an inconvenience to anyone’s agenda.

Yes that's the one and no agenda on my part and just googled it and many of those convicted were from the area. Suggests all involved were criminal gangs involved in drugs.


I haven’t seen any reports suggesting any of the travellers were part of a drug gang, it is reported that they were involved in a dispute about drugs, the reports are also clear that the 17 year old victim had not been involved in the dispute.

Your original post, only referring to many travellers being locked up, rather than reflecting the reality, plays in to the narrative that travellers are responsible for large amounts of crime, when in reality they are more often victims rather than perpetrators.

Original post done from memory so sorry if you were offended by it but there are usually two sides to every story and certainly not defending the shooting of anybody but things like this do not happen in rural Northants. The days of travellers travelling seem to have gone and a trail of destruction is usually the end result if and when they finally do move on. Much maligned but unfortunately for good reason.


Cris
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Oct 21, 2019, 11:18 PM

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You were not the victim of racism.


As you know that youngster was not subject to racial abuse in Ipswich in the 1970s, even though you were not there, no doubt you are also equally certain that my friends and I were not subject to such abuse when also attempting to enter a pub (in Birmingham) in the same decade ... .
... but, there again, referring to a group of people as "honkys" is apparently not racist according to you as "racism works one way". Presumably you believe the people at that pub threateniing us "honkys" with serious violence if we did not leave immediately would have made the same threats against non-whiite persons trying to enter i.e they were not racist, just violent.


Here’s the reality for you, black people were not made welcome in pubs by white people, they were victims of abuse, discrimination and violence. As a response they set up their own pubs, given the attitude of many white people to black people at the time it’s hardly surprising they wouldn’t be particularly welcoming. Only someone with an overinflated sense of entitlement and arrogance would expect to be welcomed in such circumstances.


Cris
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Oct 21, 2019, 11:35 PM

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In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Loads of travellers sites in Northants for whatever reason. I remember a court case last year when many were put away because of violence in the Desborough area.


Would that be the case where a local drug gang went to a traveller site and shot a 17 year old boy? The vast majority of those convicted and imprisoned over incident were locals not travellers. Apologies if these facts are an inconvenience to anyone’s agenda.

Yes that's the one and no agenda on my part and just googled it and many of those convicted were from the area. Suggests all involved were criminal gangs involved in drugs.


I haven’t seen any reports suggesting any of the travellers were part of a drug gang, it is reported that they were involved in a dispute about drugs, the reports are also clear that the 17 year old victim had not been involved in the dispute.

Your original post, only referring to many travellers being locked up, rather than reflecting the reality, plays in to the narrative that travellers are responsible for large amounts of crime, when in reality they are more often victims rather than perpetrators.

Original post done from memory so sorry if you were offended by it but there are usually two sides to every story and certainly not defending the shooting of anybody but things like this do not happen in rural Northants. The days of travellers travelling seem to have gone and a trail of destruction is usually the end result if and when they finally do move on. Much maligned but unfortunately for good reason.


You might want to reflect on why you remember an incident where a 17 traveller boy was shot and a large number of locals were convicted and imprisoned solely for the involvement of traveller. As for usually leaving a trial of destruction, that perception might be a result of how travellers are reported in the media, ie when sites are left in good condition this is not reported. there’s no “good reason” to generalise about a group of people based on the actions of some of them. There’s examples of racism from football supporters, that doesn’t mean it’s fair to describe all football fans as racist.


mick
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Oct 21, 2019, 11:42 PM

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Re: [Cris] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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In Reply To

In Reply To
You were not the victim of racism.


As you know that youngster was not subject to racial abuse in Ipswich in the 1970s, even though you were not there, no doubt you are also equally certain that my friends and I were not subject to such abuse when also attempting to enter a pub (in Birmingham) in the same decade ... .
... but, there again, referring to a group of people as "honkys" is apparently not racist according to you as "racism works one way". Presumably you believe the people at that pub threateniing us "honkys" with serious violence if we did not leave immediately would have made the same threats against non-whiite persons trying to enter i.e they were not racist, just violent.


Here’s the reality for you, black people were not made welcome in pubs by white people, they were victims of abuse, discrimination and violence. As a response they set up their own pubs, given the attitude of many white people to black people at the time it’s hardly surprising they wouldn’t be particularly welcoming. Only someone with an overinflated sense of entitlement and arrogance would expect to be welcomed in such circumstances.


So it is perfectly acceptable for black people to be "not particularly welcoming" (a.k.a. abusive and violent) towards white people and any white person who attempts to enter a pub close to where they live is arrogant.

By your argument, white people who have been abused and threatened with violence in such a manner would be fully justified in behaving the same towards black people ....... in "reaiity", a number of black people were regular patrons of other pubs we frequented in the city and none of us ever felt the need to be unwelcoming to them even after the incident I described.

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