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Home: Non-League Football Discussion: Restructuring Discussion:
Bury Demise

 

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Unicorn
Chelsea Transfer Target

Oct 15, 2019, 1:31 PM

Posts: 3886
Location: Canterbury
Team(s): Arsenal and South Eastern Football

Post #151 of 170 (4165 views)
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Re: [spen666] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Really can not see what HMRC have to gain by pushing this.
The ground seems to be the property of someone else.
Might as well back off and see if something turns up.
If the club has nothing you can only get nothing.


So the HMRC should just allow taxpayers to not pay their debts?

If you don't pay your debts, you must face the consequences, whether a football club, Woolworths PLC, Thomas Cook Plc or Mrs. Miggins.

to decide not to chase debts is the stupidest thing I have heard. All you do is encourage others not to pay, knowing there will be no consequences


Its not stupid at all.
There is no point to putting the club out of business if there is no money available to be had anyway.
Give them room and all the time they need.
Put them out of business tomorrow and HMRC will probably get nothing.
They may get nothing by waiting but its worth taking that risk.


Doobs
Junior Team Sub

Oct 15, 2019, 3:27 PM

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Post #152 of 170 (4012 views)
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Re: [spen666] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Agreed. HMRC isn't an overdraft facility.


spen666
Youth Team Star

Oct 15, 2019, 3:56 PM

Posts: 281
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Post #153 of 170 (3958 views)
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Re: [Unicorn] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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In Reply To

In Reply To
Really can not see what HMRC have to gain by pushing this.
The ground seems to be the property of someone else.
Might as well back off and see if something turns up.
If the club has nothing you can only get nothing.


So the HMRC should just allow taxpayers to not pay their debts?

If you don't pay your debts, you must face the consequences, whether a football club, Woolworths PLC, Thomas Cook Plc or Mrs. Miggins.

to decide not to chase debts is the stupidest thing I have heard. All you do is encourage others not to pay, knowing there will be no consequences


Its not stupid at all.
There is no point to putting the club out of business if there is no money available to be had anyway.
Give them room and all the time they need.
Put them out of business tomorrow and HMRC will probably get nothing.
They may get nothing by waiting but its worth taking that risk.



of course its a stupid idea.

If people know HMRC won't chase debts, then they won't pay HMRC.

If Bury or any other business or individual don't pay the debts they are due then they deserve to be put out of business.

Why should I pay extra taxes to subsidize Bury football club or any other impecunious tax payer.

you may also care to think that Bury charge VAT on match tickets for example...so they have had the money for the tax man and then they have chosen to spend it on something different.

How long do HMRC wait to get paid from Bury? Its not bury are 7 days late with the money. They are in debt to the tune of £millions and to many different creditors

If you don't pay your debts, you deserve to be made bankrupt. The fact they are a football club is irrelevant and not a consideration.


Unicorn
Chelsea Transfer Target

Oct 15, 2019, 4:50 PM

Posts: 3886
Location: Canterbury
Team(s): Arsenal and South Eastern Football

Post #154 of 170 (3883 views)
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Re: [spen666] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Your not really understanding what i am saying.
But you are commenting on things that i have not said.
Never mind.
Tomorrow may end it.


paulh66
Qatar World Cup bid member!


Oct 15, 2019, 5:15 PM

Posts: 19255
Location: Surrey
Team(s): Tranmere Rovers, South Liverpool (the South will rise again), Cammell Laird

Post #155 of 170 (3829 views)
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Re: [Unicorn] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

 

In Reply To
There is no point to putting the club out of business if there is no money available to be had anyway.


The point of doing it is to show that ultimately, if you don't pay, you'll be liquidated. No messing around ad infinitum. Has a deterrent value too.


In Reply To
Put them out of business tomorrow and HMRC will probably get nothing.
They may get nothing by waiting but its worth taking that risk.


One has to assume the HMRC has already evaluated that risk when deciding upon the action it's taking.


Plus there's the broader picture, that the fate of the existing club needs to be finally decided sooner rather than later so that, one way or another, the town can re-establish a football club to represent it. With two credible buyers now having pulled out because of due diligence findings, it's hard to see how anyone in their right mind will ever save it now.

Looks like it'll be a very sad day tomorrow but also, hopefully, the start of a new dawn.


Unicorn
Chelsea Transfer Target

Oct 15, 2019, 6:10 PM

Posts: 3886
Location: Canterbury
Team(s): Arsenal and South Eastern Football

Post #156 of 170 (3741 views)
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Re: [paulh66] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Yes the deterrent argument is always valid.
However i am just giving my opinion.
In court tomorrow if i were HMRC and the club came up with an argument and/or asked for more time i would not push against it.
Maybe getting something in the future however unlikely is better than definitely getting nothing tomorrow.


kirby knitters
Qatar World Cup bid member!

Oct 15, 2019, 6:18 PM

Posts: 18106
Location: Kirby Muxloe
Team(s): Hinckley United FC.

Post #157 of 170 (3723 views)
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Re: [Unicorn] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Attended Court in Birmingham for the last rites over Knitters. Case was done with in a matter of minutes and walked out with a crazy sense of relief that the madness that led us to that sad position was finally at an end.. Still living in the past though thinking on what might have been.


Yorkstar
Youth Team Sub

Oct 16, 2019, 9:08 AM

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Post #158 of 170 (3187 views)
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Re: [Unicorn] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Put them out of business tomorrow and HMRC will probably get nothing.
They may get nothing by waiting but its worth taking that risk.


The problem is that if they wait, the club may incurs more costs (PAYE/NIC) which they cannot pay - thus increasing the indebtedness. HMRC will want the club liquidated to stop this potentially occurring.

If a new company is formed, then they become liable for the new costs, which HMRC may be able to collect.


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Oct 16, 2019, 12:42 PM

Posts: 10473
Location: Barnetby
Team(s): Derby County FC England Borussia Mönchengladbach

Post #159 of 170 (2994 views)
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Re: [Yorkstar] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The case was adjourned for 14 days.



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


Reborn Yellow
Youth Team Regular


Oct 16, 2019, 12:52 PM

Posts: 235
Location: Notts Senior League Land
Team(s): Hucknall Town, Nottingham Forest

Post #160 of 170 (2959 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The BBC doesn't seem to know the difference between the National League and Nation league system.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50069246


spen666
Youth Team Star

Oct 16, 2019, 4:06 PM

Posts: 281
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Post #161 of 170 (2741 views)
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Re: [Unicorn] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Yes the deterrent argument is always valid.
However i am just giving my opinion.
In court tomorrow if i were HMRC and the club came up with an argument and/or asked for more time i would not push against it.
Maybe getting something in the future however unlikely is better than definitely getting nothing tomorrow.



Bury have been in the Bankruptcy Court more often than they have played football in last few months.

Promises about a takeover or a new proposal are all simply hot air it seems.

Its time for everyone's sake they were put out of their misery. Clubs in the pyramid do not know what they need to do to avoid relegation or(potentially) gain promotion as the spectre of this failed club being parachuted into the pyramid at some unknown and as yet undetermined level


rainworthgord
First Team Star

Oct 16, 2019, 5:40 PM

Posts: 2113
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Post #162 of 170 (2613 views)
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Re: [Reborn Yellow] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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The BBC doesn't seem to know the difference between the National League and Nation league system.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50069246


Are you going to tell them or shall I? Shocking failure to check facts.


Unicorn
Chelsea Transfer Target

Oct 16, 2019, 6:52 PM

Posts: 3886
Location: Canterbury
Team(s): Arsenal and South Eastern Football

Post #163 of 170 (2506 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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The case was adjourned for 14 days.


Which will take them to the 30 October which is the date when the court can hear the challenge to HMRC petition.
Interesting.


scottywalds
First Team Star


Oct 16, 2019, 7:45 PM

Posts: 2232
Location: Boston
Team(s): Boston United

Post #164 of 170 (2441 views)
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Re: [Reborn Yellow] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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The BBC doesn't seem to know the difference between the National League and Nation league system.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50069246


Not the only one to make a mistake Tongue


Doobs
Junior Team Sub

Oct 16, 2019, 9:14 PM

Posts: 19
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Post #165 of 170 (2352 views)
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Re: [scottywalds] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Indeed.

But

Alan Skelton, of Buy Our Bury - a group working for a fan-owned Bury FC - told the BBC they could take over the petition on 30 October as the club would not be paying the £54,000 in National Insurance that HMRC claimed they owed as the club no longer has any employees.

Deserves a level of mocking too. That's really not how it works


Reborn Yellow
Youth Team Regular


Oct 17, 2019, 8:07 AM

Posts: 235
Location: Notts Senior League Land
Team(s): Hucknall Town, Nottingham Forest

Post #166 of 170 (2088 views)
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Re: [scottywalds] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Whoops!


Unicorn
Chelsea Transfer Target

Oct 17, 2019, 8:56 AM

Posts: 3886
Location: Canterbury
Team(s): Arsenal and South Eastern Football

Post #167 of 170 (2034 views)
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Re: [Doobs] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Indeed.

But

Alan Skelton, of Buy Our Bury - a group working for a fan-owned Bury FC - told the BBC they could take over the petition on 30 October as the club would not be paying the £54,000 in National Insurance that HMRC claimed they owed as the club no longer has any employees.

Deserves a level of mocking too. That's really not how it works


This was of course a fresh winding up petition brought by HMRC.
If there is any opposition/ defence put up the court will nearly always simply set a future date to hear all the submissions.


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Oct 17, 2019, 5:35 PM

Posts: 10473
Location: Barnetby
Team(s): Derby County FC England Borussia Mönchengladbach

Post #168 of 170 (1666 views)
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Re: [Unicorn] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

An updated letter about the proposed way forward, has been released on Twitter by Bury North MP James Frith. If anyone wants read it, it’s on his twitter page @JamesFrith



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


spen666
Youth Team Star

Oct 18, 2019, 11:01 AM

Posts: 281
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Post #169 of 170 (1148 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
An updated letter about the proposed way forward, has been released on Twitter by Bury North MP James Frith. If anyone wants read it, it’s on his twitter page @JamesFrith


to save people hunting down the letter and wasting time reading it it says

waffle waffle blah blah blah vague suggestions of something, but to vague to mean anything, blah blah look at me I am a good MP waffle waffle


shimtoan
First Team Regular


Oct 18, 2019, 5:14 PM

Posts: 1369
Location: Dunkirk, Nottingham
Team(s): Dunkirk

Post #170 of 170 (885 views)
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Re: [spen666] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
An updated letter about the proposed way forward, has been released on Twitter by Bury North MP James Frith. If anyone wants read it, it’s on his twitter page @JamesFrith


to save people hunting down the letter and wasting time reading it it says

waffle waffle blah blah blah vague suggestions of something, but to vague to mean anything, blah blah look at me I am a good MP waffle waffle

standard fayre, waste of a tree?



unless stated, all views are my own and are not the views of any other person, club, or organisation

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