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EU Withdrawal Negotiations

 

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Ronsdog
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Jul 22, 2019, 3:29 PM

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Post #4001 of 4192 (1093 views)
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Re: [broodleyhoo] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Gosh .

37 months in and people can still post that the majority of voters voted leave.

Of course it was the majority of those who voted, voted leave.
Just two words - but a significant difference.

Imagine you're on trial.
5 of the jury find you guilty, 4 find you not guilty and 3 can't decide.
You'd happily take 20 years in the Scrubs because the majority voted guilty, wouldn't you?


As a leaver I take your point Mr B, but it's hardly a fair analogy.

On the basis of your assertion that a majority is 50% +1 of the total electorate then this country hasn't had a legitimate government since the 1930s. That includes the landslide victories of both Thatcher and Blair. In fact the Labour Party have never received 50% of the vote in a GE let alone 50% of the total electorate.

One must assume that those that can't be bothered to vote simply don't care and their views can be subsequently discounted.

Perhaps you might wish to campaign for voting in national/local elections to become compulsory. I'm not sure that such a scenario would be met with universal approvalTongue

https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/.../CBP-7529.pdf#page25


(This post was edited by Ronsdog on Jul 22, 2019, 5:04 PM)


Yatesman
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Jul 22, 2019, 6:36 PM

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Post #4002 of 4192 (1023 views)
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Re: [broodleyhoo] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Not a reply to the previous post per se, but a more general point.

3 years in, the situation is clear

Either
a) Brexit is a great idea and it just needs a leader with a strong purpose, policy and vision to implement these and remove anyone who would inhibit such implementation
or
b) Brexit remains so hugely ill-defined apart from the most general of broad-brush aspirations that anyone who sits down to try to implement Brexit finds that it is impossible to do in any meaningful and non-damaging way.

The choice is yours.

But exhortations to bat for our side irrespective of any thinking through of the process should belong no closer to our to our political decision-making processes than the realms of the half-time pep talk for the club 3rd XV.


We'll go with a) in that case.

Brexit will ALWAYS be ill-defined to Remainers.

It isn't to the EU because they put a deal together.......just a shame it was a shite deal.
Common sense dictates that if one deal can be finalised then so can a second, improved deal or third much improved deal!

Get rid of Corbyn and put this man in charge. Labour might find it's heart and soul again.........and I might vote for them again!


https://brexitcentral.com/...est-hope-for-brexit/


Yatesman
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Jul 22, 2019, 6:40 PM

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Post #4003 of 4192 (1021 views)
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Re: [broodleyhoo] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Gosh .

37 months in and people can still post that the majority of voters voted leave.

Of course it was the majority of those who voted, voted leave.
Just two words - but a significant difference.

Imagine you're on trial.
5 of the jury find you guilty, 4 find you not guilty and 3 can't decide.
You'd happily take 20 years in the Scrubs because the majority voted guilty, wouldn't you?


Your analogy sucks.

Why even bother with analogy's when the matter at hand is perfectly lucid.

Leave Won..........Remain Lost.............

Now, What part of that Do You Not Get!??!


Towlawtom
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Jul 23, 2019, 7:45 PM

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Post #4004 of 4192 (919 views)
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Re: [Yatesman] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Gosh .

37 months in and people can still post that the majority of voters voted leave.

Of course it was the majority of those who voted, voted leave.
Just two words - but a significant difference.

Imagine you're on trial.
5 of the jury find you guilty, 4 find you not guilty and 3 can't decide.
You'd happily take 20 years in the Scrubs because the majority voted guilty, wouldn't you?


Your analogy sucks.

Why even bother with analogy's when the matter at hand is perfectly lucid.

Leave Won..........Remain Lost.............

Now, What part of that Do You Not Get!??!


When 52 per cent of the electorate cant agree on what sort of brexit they want and what sort of relationship they want with the EU when they leave then either another referendum or at least a general election would solve the deadlock

Meanwhile Jeremy Hunt appears to want EU help over gulf ships stating he wants to seek to create a European-led mission to ensure safe passage of international vessels in the Gulf.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49076294?fbclid=IwAR0zhA1INmFkFNMGpx5hmn57UupvC3k1_1VpuM90rOR6pbE_FTpPlNoX4WQ

Brexiters said we couid run the world after brexit so who needs the EU?

So Brexiters logic - EU Navy Good ! - EU Army bad !



I need to have the last word, as it always looks as if I am right !


Yatesman
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Jul 23, 2019, 9:08 PM

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Post #4005 of 4192 (897 views)
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Re: [Towlawtom] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Gosh .

37 months in and people can still post that the majority of voters voted leave.

Of course it was the majority of those who voted, voted leave.
Just two words - but a significant difference.

Imagine you're on trial.
5 of the jury find you guilty, 4 find you not guilty and 3 can't decide.
You'd happily take 20 years in the Scrubs because the majority voted guilty, wouldn't you?


Your analogy sucks.

Why even bother with analogy's when the matter at hand is perfectly lucid.

Leave Won..........Remain Lost.............

Now, What part of that Do You Not Get!??!


When 52 per cent of the electorate cant agree on what sort of brexit they want and what sort of relationship they want with the EU when they leave then either another referendum or at least a general election would solve the deadlock

Meanwhile Jeremy Hunt appears to want EU help over gulf ships stating he wants to seek to create a European-led mission to ensure safe passage of international vessels in the Gulf.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49076294?fbclid=IwAR0zhA1INmFkFNMGpx5hmn57UupvC3k1_1VpuM90rOR6pbE_FTpPlNoX4WQ

Brexiters said we couid run the world after brexit so who needs the EU?

So Brexiters logic - EU Navy Good ! - EU Army bad !



Brexiteers never said they could run the world. You've ran out of arguments now and are resorting to your self engineered stereotypes.

As for The Gulf .............It's a Swedish ship so I say we let them deal with issue.

Btw.............your first paragraph attempting a logical argument for a second referendum makes no sense because there is no guarantee that you will get an outcome that you will find any more comprehensible or desirable

Leave voters voted to Leave the EU...........'details to be negotiated.' We didn't need to absolutely define the nature of Leaving because it was to be negotiated.

Negotiated means that there is fluidity in your wishes and expectations and a willingness to compromise.

Leavers bought in to that.

The Politicians in Parliament let the electorate decide on whether to Leave or Stay and then we passed the baton back to them to negotiate a good, unproblematic withdrawal deal ...........Boy, did they drop that baton


(This post was edited by Yatesman on Jul 23, 2019, 9:33 PM)


Richard Rundle
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Jul 23, 2019, 10:46 PM

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Post #4006 of 4192 (864 views)
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Re: [Yatesman] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Leave voters voted to Leave the EU...........'details to be negotiated.' We didn't need to absolutely define the nature of Leaving because it was to be negotiated.


Yet when options like leaving the EU but remaining in the Customs Union or the Single Market come up, we get "that's not the sort of "Brexit" we voted for".


Ronsdog
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Jul 24, 2019, 12:18 AM

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Post #4007 of 4192 (850 views)
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Re: [Towlawtom] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Gosh .

Meanwhile Jeremy Hunt appears to want EU help over gulf ships stating he wants to seek to create a European-led mission to ensure safe passage of international vessels in the Gulf.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49076294?fbclid=IwAR0zhA1INmFkFNMGpx5hmn57UupvC3k1_1VpuM90rOR6pbE_FTpPlNoX4WQ

Brexiters said we couid run the world after brexit so who needs the EU?

So Brexiters logic - EU Navy Good ! - EU Army bad !


It's hardly unreasonable to expect the EU, of which we are still a member and on whose behalf we impounded the Iranian vessel, acting on an EU mandate, to be supportive.

The Spanish had a naval vessel in the Hormuz Straits when the Swedish owned vessel was boarded illegally, yet it stood off and didn't intervene.

So much for European cooperation.
The U.K. acted on an EU mandate and received no thanks or assistance for our action.

Hopefully Boris will rid us of our EU membership sooner rather than later and we can once more look to strengthen our alliance with our real friends and partners across the pond.


(This post was edited by Ronsdog on Jul 24, 2019, 12:30 AM)


Richard Rundle
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Jul 24, 2019, 7:58 AM

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Post #4008 of 4192 (809 views)
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Re: [Ronsdog] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
The Spanish had a naval vessel in the Hormuz Straits when the Swedish owned vessel was boarded illegally, yet it stood off and didn't intervene.


I've not heard this part of the story. Do you have a source please?


Yatesman
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Jul 24, 2019, 9:09 AM

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Post #4009 of 4192 (791 views)
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Re: [Richard Rundle] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Leave voters voted to Leave the EU...........'details to be negotiated.' We didn't need to absolutely define the nature of Leaving because it was to be negotiated.


Yet when options like leaving the EU but remaining in the Customs Union or the Single Market come up, we get "that's not the sort of "Brexit" we voted for".


Only someone completely ignorant or entirely misunderstanding of the concept of Leaving the EU would think remaining in the Customs Union and the Single Market is an acceptable outcome to deliver Brexit.

It is only proposed by those wishing to de factor Remain, to delay the process or muddy the waters.


Ronsdog
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Jul 24, 2019, 12:22 PM

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Post #4010 of 4192 (750 views)
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Re: [Richard Rundle] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
The Spanish had a naval vessel in the Hormuz Straits when the Swedish owned vessel was boarded illegally, yet it stood off and didn't intervene.


I've not heard this part of the story. Do you have a source please?


AP Arabic news wires. The Spanish naval attaché in Oman has refused to comment on the reports.


(This post was edited by Ronsdog on Jul 24, 2019, 12:29 PM)


Towlawtom
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Jul 24, 2019, 4:05 PM

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Post #4011 of 4192 (700 views)
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Re: [Yatesman] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Leave voters voted to Leave the EU...........'details to be negotiated.' We didn't need to absolutely define the nature of Leaving because it was to be negotiated.


Yet when options like leaving the EU but remaining in the Customs Union or the Single Market come up, we get "that's not the sort of "Brexit" we voted for".


Only someone completely ignorant or entirely misunderstanding of the concept of Leaving the EU would think remaining in the Customs Union and the Single Market is an acceptable outcome to deliver Brexit.

It is only proposed by those wishing to de factor Remain, to delay the process or muddy the waters.


Some brexit voters wanted nothing to do with the EU and always wanted a no deal
Some brexit voters wanted to leave but remain in the customs union and single market. The brexiteers wanted different things on their relationship with EU when we leave. Didn't farage at one stage want a Norway type deal?
I agree with you final terms were always tbc but many were swayed by the opinions of Davis and Fox believing that negotiations would assume a deal would already be in place as the eu didn't want a no deal and we were always going to get the best trading deal possible when leaving. Remember the" they need us more then we need them statement" plus of course easiest deal in history which has turned out to be false. I disagree the deadlock could easily be resolved and no néed for another referendum. Either revoke article 50 with enough parliamentary support or go for a general election so Johnson can get a clear mandate to get his no deal brexit endorsed if that's what he wants. .



I need to have the last word, as it always looks as if I am right !

(This post was edited by Towlawtom on Jul 24, 2019, 4:08 PM)


jrev61
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Jul 24, 2019, 8:12 PM

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Post #4012 of 4192 (660 views)
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Re: [Ronsdog] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

 


Hopefully Boris will rid us of our EU membership sooner rather than later and we can once more look to strengthen our alliance with our real friends and partners across the pond.

[/reply
I take it you mean Canada.



jrev61


Yatesman
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Jul 24, 2019, 9:20 PM

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Post #4013 of 4192 (644 views)
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Re: [Towlawtom] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Leave voters voted to Leave the EU...........'details to be negotiated.' We didn't need to absolutely define the nature of Leaving because it was to be negotiated.


Yet when options like leaving the EU but remaining in the Customs Union or the Single Market come up, we get "that's not the sort of "Brexit" we voted for".


Only someone completely ignorant or entirely misunderstanding of the concept of Leaving the EU would think remaining in the Customs Union and the Single Market is an acceptable outcome to deliver Brexit.

It is only proposed by those wishing to de factor Remain, to delay the process or muddy the waters.


Some brexit voters wanted nothing to do with the EU and always wanted a no deal
Some brexit voters wanted to leave but remain in the customs union and single market. The brexiteers wanted different things on their relationship with EU when we leave. Didn't farage at one stage want a Norway type deal?
I agree with you final terms were always tbc but many were swayed by the opinions of Davis and Fox believing that negotiations would assume a deal would already be in place as the eu didn't want a no deal and we were always going to get the best trading deal possible when leaving. Remember the" they need us more then we need them statement" plus of course easiest deal in history which has turned out to be false. I disagree the deadlock could easily be resolved and no néed for another referendum. Either revoke article 50 with enough parliamentary support or go for a general election so Johnson can get a clear mandate to get his no deal brexit endorsed if that's what he wants. .


Even if any of what you say has any merit , it still does not make the case to dismiss the result of the referendum and hold another one.

Another referendum would be boycotted bt millions of disillusioned Leave voters who would regard it as a stitch up.

You can't turn the clock back to 2016...........What's done is done and now is the time to finally deliver...........Go Boris, ya wee Dancer!


Towlawtom
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Jul 26, 2019, 1:41 PM

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Post #4014 of 4192 (514 views)
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Re: [Yatesman] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

10 EU Laws we will lose the right to have when we leave on 31st October.


Consular Protection Directive: As EU citizens, Brits can automatically rely on consular protection from any EU country when in an emergency in a country and there is no British representation. Handy!


Transfers of Undertakings Directive: People whose employer changes after merger, takeover or acquisition are protected by EU law. Red tape slashing brexiteer on the side of big business would probably like to remove/water down these employee protections we have.


Mobile Roaming Regulation: Outside EU rules on roaming charges, Brits could get stung by phone companies abroad. Something to mull over as you Instagram on the beach this summer. Who else remembers those eye-watering charges!?


Consumer Rights Directive: This creates rights across the EU. It aligns national consumer rules eg on the information you need to be given before you buy something, and your right to cancel online purchases. This means that you can rely on same rights wherever you shop in the EU.


Mutual Recognition of Qualifications Directive: This gives automatic recognition to qualifications for nurses, midwives, doctors etc subject to meeting certain conditions. This give our NHS access to a huge pool of talent. Is this bad for us?


Pet Passports Regulation: This lets you bring your pooch on holiday!


Driving Licences Directive: I will quote directly from the Directive - 'Driving licences issued by Member States shall be mutually recognised.' This is Excellent because it means we can just nip across the channel and drive anywhere within the EU.


Flight Compensation Regulation: This provides compensation and assistance to passengers caught out by delayed or cancelled flights. Delayed flights etc can really ruin your day so it's nice to have some way of getting compensated.

We actually voted against this eu law which was forced on us. You have to question why we voted against this law.



Citizens Rights Directive: This is the one we all love. It sets out our freedom of movement rights across the entire EU along with all its opportunities. It balances the fundamental right for us to move freely in the EU and Member States limiting the burden that this may cause


General Food Law Regulation: This creates a farm-to-fork approach that covers all sectors of the food chain. It aims for a high level of protection of human life, health and the protection of consumers’ interests, as well as the protection of animal health and welfare.





I need to have the last word, as it always looks as if I am right !

(This post was edited by Towlawtom on Jul 26, 2019, 1:43 PM)


007Dale
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Jul 26, 2019, 2:00 PM

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Post #4015 of 4192 (508 views)
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Re: [Towlawtom] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

Consular Protection Directive: As EU citizens, Brits can automatically rely on consular protection from any EU country when in an emergency in a country and there is no British representation.

Handy!


Is it? Given the U.K. has one of the most comprehensive diplomatic missions out of any country, i’d Suggest we are not net beneficiaries of this!

Out of interest, of the dozen or so countries we don’t have a diplomatic mission with, how many have you been to? Or anyone on this forum? Is it worth £39billion?


Towlawtom
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Jul 26, 2019, 2:30 PM

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Post #4016 of 4192 (492 views)
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Re: [007Dale] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

Consular Protection Directive: As EU citizens, Brits can automatically rely on consular protection from any EU country when in an emergency in a country and there is no British representation.

Handy!


Is it? Given the U.K. has one of the most comprehensive diplomatic missions out of any country, i’d Suggest we are not net beneficiaries of this!

Out of interest, of the dozen or so countries we don’t have a diplomatic mission with, how many have you been to? Or anyone on this forum? Is it worth £39billion?


Of course the 39 billion would cover more then being stuck in a country we have no diplomatic relations with. I'm sure you are intelligent enough to know that!



I need to have the last word, as it always looks as if I am right !


Ronsdog
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Jul 26, 2019, 2:42 PM

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Post #4017 of 4192 (489 views)
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Re: [Towlawtom] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

 
I could take issue with many of the points you raise in your list of EU memebership benefits; but specifically on the issue of animal welfare and food standards the Uk has higher welfare standards than the EU.
Crated veal production is but one cruel and outdated practice that the EU allows but we have banned.

European chlorine washing of vegetables is allowed = Good?
American chlorine washing of poultry = Bad?

Go figure Tongue

Or is it that the EU is protectionist, French and Dutch farming practises, and generally anti American?

And anti free trade for that matter!


(This post was edited by Ronsdog on Jul 26, 2019, 2:47 PM)


Tykeoldboy
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Jul 26, 2019, 2:53 PM

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Post #4018 of 4192 (480 views)
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Re: [Ronsdog] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Driving Licences Directive: I will quote directly from the Directive - 'Driving licences issued by Member States shall be mutually recognised.' This is Excellent because it means we can just nip across the channel and drive anywhere within the EU.

You'll probably require a green card to take your car over the Channel and the cost of renting a car will increase due to higher insurance costs.

General Food Law Regulation: This creates a farm-to-fork approach that covers all sectors of the food chain. It aims for a high level of protection of human life, health and the protection of consumers’ interests, as well as the protection of animal health and welfare.

We will adhere to American food standards once out of the EU, with the flood of "quality" American foods that will be flood into the UK. That is something that will whet your appetite.



The feeling of utter devastation when you pick up your mug and realise you already finished your tea.


Northumbrian
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Jul 26, 2019, 3:03 PM

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Post #4019 of 4192 (471 views)
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Re: [Ronsdog] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I could take issue with many of the points you raise in your list of EU memebership benefits; but specifically on the issue of animal welfare and food standards the Uk has higher welfare standards than the EU.
Crated veal production is but one cruel and outdated practice that the EU allows but we have banned.

European chlorine washing of vegetables is allowed = Good?
American chlorine washing of poultry = Bad?

Go figure Tongue

Or is it that the EU is protectionist, French and Dutch farming practises, and generally anti American?

And anti free trade for that matter!



Veal Crates have been banned across the EU since January 2007.
The issue with chlorine soaked chicken (or other animal meat) is to try and keep animal welfare standards high by forcing the producer into keeping the animals healthy and clean whilst they are reared. This is opposed to keeping them in dirty unhealthy conditions and then soaking them in chlorine at the abattoir to kill the bacteria.


Ronsdog
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Jul 26, 2019, 3:19 PM

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Post #4020 of 4192 (461 views)
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Re: [Northumbrian] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
I could take issue with many of the points you raise in your list of EU memebership benefits; but specifically on the issue of animal welfare and food standards the Uk has higher welfare standards than the EU.
Crated veal production is but one cruel and outdated practice that the EU allows but we have banned.

European chlorine washing of vegetables is allowed = Good?
American chlorine washing of poultry = Bad?

Go figure Tongue

Or is it that the EU is protectionist, French and Dutch farming practises, and generally anti American?

And anti free trade for that matter!



Veal Crates have been banned across the EU since January 2007.
The issue with chlorine soaked chicken (or other animal meat) is to try and keep animal welfare standards high by forcing the producer into keeping the animals healthy and clean whilst they are reared. This is opposed to keeping them in dirty unhealthy conditions and then soaking them in chlorine at the abattoir to kill the bacteria.


Re ...Veal
The practice still continues on mainland Europe. They have simply renamed crates as pens.....

http://europa.eu/...ease_IP-96-79_en.htm


Towlawtom
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Jul 26, 2019, 3:23 PM

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Post #4021 of 4192 (460 views)
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Re: [Ronsdog] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I could take issue with many of the points you raise in your list of EU memebership benefits; but specifically on the issue of animal welfare and food standards the Uk has higher welfare standards than the EU.
Crated veal production is but one cruel and outdated practice that the EU allows but we have banned.

European chlorine washing of vegetables is allowed = Good?
American chlorine washing of poultry = Bad?

Go figure Tongue

Or is it that the EU is protectionist, French and Dutch farming practises, and generally anti American?

And anti free trade for that matter!


I disagree strongly with you on animal welfare. The Eu forced us to tighten up on health checks for livestock with more severe health checks, paperwork and traceability which we voted against. Shortly afterwards 6 million animals were destroyed in the 2001 foot & mouth epidemic.

The EU also forced trucks for livestock jouneys over 8 hours must have adequate bedding, feed, water, ventilation, partitions and access for inspectors.

The EU also forced us after the foot and mouth epidemic to tighten up on adequate labelling for compound feed and we voted against that

All those we voted against and you have to ask why??



I need to have the last word, as it always looks as if I am right !


Ronsdog
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Jul 26, 2019, 6:53 PM

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Post #4022 of 4192 (403 views)
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Re: [Towlawtom] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
I could take issue with many of the points you raise in your list of EU memebership benefits; but specifically on the issue of animal welfare and food standards the Uk has higher welfare standards than the EU.
Crated veal production is but one cruel and outdated practice that the EU allows but we have banned.

European chlorine washing of vegetables is allowed = Good?
American chlorine washing of poultry = Bad?

Go figure Tongue

Or is it that the EU is protectionist, French and Dutch farming practises, and generally anti American?

And anti free trade for that matter!


I disagree strongly with you on animal welfare. The Eu forced us to tighten up on health checks for livestock with more severe health checks, paperwork and traceability which we voted against. Shortly afterwards 6 million animals were destroyed in the 2001 foot & mouth epidemic.

The EU also forced trucks for livestock jouneys over 8 hours must have adequate bedding, feed, water, ventilation, partitions and access for inspectors.

The EU also forced us after the foot and mouth epidemic to tighten up on adequate labelling for compound feed and we voted against that

All those we voted against and you have to ask why??


Regulations which the UK complied with despite our reluctance and opposition.

The real problem that has always driven my opposition to the EU is that as a rules based organisation it allows the French and Germans to ignore and subvert the regulations. We have seen it with regard to both nations ignoring financial rules on budget deficits and in the case of France a total disregard for animal welfare rules. The case of fois gras simply proves the point. Double standards or what?

https://stop-foie-gras.com/...ition-cage-foie-gras

The EU is a broken organisation that continues to believe, as many remainers in the UK do, it's own propaganda.

Better off out and it is to be hoped that our new PM will expose the myth that the EU is a benign organisation.....it's nothing more than a Franco/German stitch up.

Thankfully other member countries are coming to the same conclusion and Italy will soon expose its greatest flaw , a common currency, within a matter of months.

With or without a deal this nation will overcome the many obstacles that the EU will put in our path to attempt to prevent us becoming a sovereign state once more.

https://www.independent.co.uk/...rights-a8771086.html


(This post was edited by Ronsdog on Jul 26, 2019, 7:06 PM)


Towlawtom
Reserve Team Regular


Jul 26, 2019, 8:27 PM

Posts: 638
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Post #4023 of 4192 (364 views)
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Re: [Ronsdog] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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[

I disagree strongly with you on animal welfare. The Eu forced us to tighten up on health checks for livestock with more severe health checks, paperwork and traceability which we voted against. Shortly afterwards 6 million animals were destroyed in the 2001 foot & mouth epidemic.

The EU also forced trucks for livestock jouneys over 8 hours must have adequate bedding, feed, water, ventilation, partitions and access for inspectors.

The EU also forced us after the foot and mouth epidemic to tighten up on adequate labelling for compound feed and we voted against that

All those we voted against and you have to ask why??


Regulations which the UK complied with despite our reluctance and opposition.

The real problem that has always driven my opposition to the EU is that as a rules based organisation it allows the French and Germans to ignore and subvert the regulations. We have seen it with regard to both nations ignoring financial rules on budget deficits and in the case of France a total disregard for animal welfare rules. The case of fois gras simply proves the point. Double standards or what?

https://stop-foie-gras.com/...ition-cage-foie-gras

The EU is a broken organisation that continues to believe, as many remainers in the UK do, it's own propaganda.

Better off out and it is to be hoped that our new PM will expose the myth that the EU is a benign organisation.....it's nothing more than a Franco/German stitch up.

Thankfully other member countries are coming to the same conclusion and Italy will soon expose its greatest flaw , a common currency, within a matter of months.

With or without a deal this nation will overcome the many obstacles that the EU will put in our path to attempt to prevent us becoming a sovereign state once more.

https://www.independent.co.uk/...rights-a8771086.html


So then why would We have opposed the laws from the examples I have posted. What justification was there in opposing them that benefited animal welfare?

After brexit we will be able to overturn all of those and many others like no more compensation for passengers from delayed flights as just one example.

Its completely wrong to say our policies overall on animal welfare are better than the EU's .

As for Foie gras and veal I would always boycott them and not eat those products but that's another argument.



I need to have the last word, as it always looks as if I am right !


Ronsdog
First Team Star


Jul 26, 2019, 9:53 PM

Posts: 2647
Location: Sarf London
Team(s): Lowestoft Town, Crystal Palace

Post #4024 of 4192 (327 views)
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Re: [Towlawtom] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

?


Regulations which the UK complied with despite our reluctance and opposition.

The real problem that has always driven my opposition to the EU is that as a rules based organisation it allows the French and Germans to ignore and subvert the regulations. We have seen it with regard to both nations ignoring financial rules on budget deficits and in the case of France a total disregard for animal welfare rules. The case of fois gras simply proves the point. Double standards or what?

https://stop-foie-gras.com/...ition-cage-foie-gras

The EU is a broken organisation that continues to believe, as many remainers in the UK do, it's own propaganda.

Better off out and it is to be hoped that our new PM will expose the myth that the EU is a benign organisation.....it's nothing more than a Franco/German stitch up.

Thankfully other member countries are coming to the same conclusion and Italy will soon expose its greatest flaw , a common currency, within a matter of months.

With or without a deal this nation will overcome the many obstacles that the EU will put in our path to attempt to prevent us becoming a sovereign state once more.

https://www.independent.co.uk/...rights-a8771086.html


So then why would We have opposed the laws from the examples I have posted. What justification was there in opposing them that benefited animal welfare?

After brexit we will be able to overturn all of those and many others like no more compensation for passengers from delayed flights as just one example.

Its completely wrong to say our policies overall on animal welfare are better than the EU's .

As for Foie gras and veal I would always boycott them and not eat those products but that's another argument.



Perhaps its time for us to agree to disagree and allow others to make up their own minds following our recent exchanges Mr Tom.

However I doubt very much whether we have changed anybody's opinion on this vexatious matter.

Just one parting question. If I read paragraph 2 correctly am I to assume that you are now resolved to the UK leaving the EU ?


PaulC
Man City Transfer Target!


Jul 27, 2019, 8:23 AM

Posts: 11433
Location: Ayrshire, Midlothian
Team(s): AFC Darwen, Troon, Ayr Utd, Burnley

Post #4025 of 4192 (263 views)
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Re: [Towlawtom] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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10 EU Laws we will lose the right to have when we leave on 31st October.


Consular Protection Directive: As EU citizens, Brits can automatically rely on consular protection from any EU country when in an emergency in a country and there is no British representation. Handy!


Transfers of Undertakings Directive: People whose employer changes after merger, takeover or acquisition are protected by EU law. Red tape slashing brexiteer on the side of big business would probably like to remove/water down these employee protections we have.


Mobile Roaming Regulation: Outside EU rules on roaming charges, Brits could get stung by phone companies abroad. Something to mull over as you Instagram on the beach this summer. Who else remembers those eye-watering charges!?


Consumer Rights Directive: This creates rights across the EU. It aligns national consumer rules eg on the information you need to be given before you buy something, and your right to cancel online purchases. This means that you can rely on same rights wherever you shop in the EU.


Mutual Recognition of Qualifications Directive: This gives automatic recognition to qualifications for nurses, midwives, doctors etc subject to meeting certain conditions. This give our NHS access to a huge pool of talent. Is this bad for us?


Pet Passports Regulation: This lets you bring your pooch on holiday!


Driving Licences Directive: I will quote directly from the Directive - 'Driving licences issued by Member States shall be mutually recognised.' This is Excellent because it means we can just nip across the channel and drive anywhere within the EU.


Flight Compensation Regulation: This provides compensation and assistance to passengers caught out by delayed or cancelled flights. Delayed flights etc can really ruin your day so it's nice to have some way of getting compensated.

We actually voted against this eu law which was forced on us. You have to question why we voted against this law.



Citizens Rights Directive: This is the one we all love. It sets out our freedom of movement rights across the entire EU along with all its opportunities. It balances the fundamental right for us to move freely in the EU and Member States limiting the burden that this may cause


General Food Law Regulation: This creates a farm-to-fork approach that covers all sectors of the food chain. It aims for a high level of protection of human life, health and the protection of consumers’ interests, as well as the protection of animal health and welfare.



Yeh but we'll be free.

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