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Home: Non-League Football Discussion: General Discussion:
FA Cup Entry 2019-20

 

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Philmobil
Youth Team Regular

Jul 6, 2019, 7:31 AM

Posts: 221
Location: United Kingdom
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Post #1 of 37 (7564 views)
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FA Cup Entry 2019-20 Can't Post or Reply Privately

For all the Non-league clubs who have missed out on FA Cup entry for 2019-20 season (getting the attached letter from the FA) despite having competed in the competition for years or decades, it was actually possible for them to have been accommodated if FA had restructured FA Cup at same time as restructuring the Non-League pyramid!

I wrote this blog 2 years ago about how the FA could increase the number of entries at the level where the interest from clubs is the highest.

They obviously didn't read it (or ignored it because it was covered quite widely on social media by mainstream publications)

https://facupfactfile.wordpress.com/...in-fa-cup-1st-round/


keneastlancs
Reserve Team Regular

Jul 6, 2019, 9:53 AM

Posts: 566
Location: Darwen Lancashire
Team(s): all non league - especially north western teams

Post #2 of 37 (7269 views)
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Re: [Philmobil] FA Cup Entry 2019-20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
For all the Non-league clubs who have missed out on FA Cup entry for 2019-20 season (getting the attached letter from the FA) despite having competed in the competition for years or decades, it was actually possible for them to have been accommodated if FA had restructured FA Cup at same time as restructuring the Non-League pyramid!

I wrote this blog 2 years ago about how the FA could increase the number of entries at the level where the interest from clubs is the highest.

They obviously didn't read it (or ignored it because it was covered quite widely on social media by mainstream publications)

https://facupfactfile.wordpress.com/...in-fa-cup-1st-round/


Very good proposals have you considered how it will change with the increase to 24 teams in each step 2 league hence 72 teams excemption in your chart till 4th round not 68 your idea may need tweaking. but it is very good.


Richard Rundle
Man City Transfer Target!

Jul 6, 2019, 10:01 AM

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Post #3 of 37 (7238 views)
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Re: [Philmobil] FA Cup Entry 2019-20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I can't see the FA ever wanting to annoy the EFL Championship clubs by doing something like this. The change I would make to get more Step 6 clubs in is to exempt the National League sides until the 3rd Round Qualifying, not the 4th but I recognise that that too is very unlikely.


Philmobil
Youth Team Regular

Jul 6, 2019, 10:06 AM

Posts: 221
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Post #4 of 37 (7225 views)
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Re: [keneastlancs] FA Cup Entry 2019-20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Yes, I wrote the proposals before the current changes. I was going to wait until the final structure is in place to tweak it anew


Philmobil
Youth Team Regular

Jul 6, 2019, 10:09 AM

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Post #5 of 37 (7214 views)
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Re: [Richard Rundle] FA Cup Entry 2019-20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Whilst I agree there would be opposition from clubs to having to start earlier in the FA Cup, changes have been made to the competition in the past.

Obviously it's been a while since professional clubs have been affected in the FA Cup due to structure changes, but it's not that long ago since EFL Championship clubs had to start earlier in the League Cup than they previously did, so it is obviously something that could happen ... if there was a will for it to happen.


Rebel Yeller
Reserve Team Sub

Jul 6, 2019, 10:58 AM

Posts: 460
Location: Staines
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Post #6 of 37 (7106 views)
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Re: [Philmobil] FA Cup Entry 2019-20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Just another small example of the uncaring society in which we live. Step 6 clubs are amongst those most in need of some FA Cup cash, so the powers that be deny them the chance to get it. So much for looking after grass roots.


leohoenig
Administrator

Jul 6, 2019, 11:30 AM

Posts: 13545
Location: Outer Cheltenhamshire
Team(s): Cheltenham Town

Post #7 of 37 (7038 views)
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Re: [Rebel Yeller] FA Cup Entry 2019-20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The full compliment, (in the revised structure) of the top ten levels is, (if I added up correctly), 1,072 clubs
It would be easily possible to allow them all into the FA Cup if the exemptions were worked well. Surely this would be a good target for the FA?



Fat AND Pompous.
The proof that you can have too much of a good thing
Now blogging at http://www.leohoenig.com



leohoenig
Administrator

Jul 6, 2019, 12:06 PM

Posts: 13545
Location: Outer Cheltenhamshire
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Post #8 of 37 (6960 views)
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Re: [leohoenig] FA Cup Entry 2019-20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

3rd Round
32 ties, 64 teams, 20 exemptions (Premier), 44 Qual.
2nd Round
44 ties, 88 teams, 24 exemptions (Champ), 64 Qual
1st Round
64 ties, 128 teams, 48 exemptions (League1/2), 80 Qual
5Q
80 ties, 160 teams, 24 exemptions (Step 1), 136 Qual
4Q
136 ties, 272 teams, 48 exemptions (Step 2), 224 Qual
3Q
224 ties, 448 teams, 88 exemptions (Step 3), 360 Qual
2Q
360 ties, 720 teams, 620 exemptions (Step 4, 5 + byes), 100 Qual
1Q
100 ties, 200 teams (possible allow a few Step 7 in)



Fat AND Pompous.
The proof that you can have too much of a good thing
Now blogging at http://www.leohoenig.com



(This post was edited by leohoenig on Jul 6, 2019, 12:07 PM)


ladderman
Man City Transfer Target!

Jul 6, 2019, 2:46 PM

Posts: 7419
Location: Bishop's Stortford
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Post #9 of 37 (6736 views)
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Re: [leohoenig] FA Cup Entry 2019-20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I'd agree with that. It's not rocket science. there are far more winners than losers, but there's not a hope in hell of it happening.


Cris
Youth Team Star

Jul 6, 2019, 2:57 PM

Posts: 352
Location: Birmingham
Team(s): Bromsgrove Sporting

Post #10 of 37 (6720 views)
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Re: [Philmobil] FA Cup Entry 2019-20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
For all the Non-league clubs who have missed out on FA Cup entry for 2019-20 season (getting the attached letter from the FA) despite having competed in the competition for years or decades, it was actually possible for them to have been accommodated if FA had restructured FA Cup at same time as restructuring the Non-League pyramid!

I wrote this blog 2 years ago about how the FA could increase the number of entries at the level where the interest from clubs is the highest.

They obviously didn't read it (or ignored it because it was covered quite widely on social media by mainstream publications)

https://facupfactfile.wordpress.com/...in-fa-cup-1st-round/


Correct me if Iím wrong, but the FA havenít actually cut the number of clubs entering the FA Cup itís just there are more playing at step 5 or above. Isnít it disingenuous to suggest the FA have somehow suddenly dropped a load of clubs from the competition? Could you name the clubs that have been consistently at step 6 who have competed in the FA cup for decades and suddenly aren't? I canít think of any.


(This post was edited by Cris on Jul 6, 2019, 2:58 PM)


Philmobil
Youth Team Regular

Jul 6, 2019, 3:15 PM

Posts: 221
Location: United Kingdom
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Post #11 of 37 (6684 views)
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Re: [Cris] FA Cup Entry 2019-20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I never suggested the FA had 'suddenly dropped a load of clubs from the competition'. I also never mentioned that the clubs missing out were long term Step 6 clubs.

What I did allude to is that the FA has missed an opportunity to increase the number of clubs in the FA Cup as they were re-structuring the pyramid, and that some long standing FA Cup participants would be missing out in 2019-20.

Yes, unfortunately the number of entries have remained the same, but there's confusion with clubs who have not taken into consideration the greater number of teams now above Step 6 when bemoaning that they've missed out. Which means they have not digested the fact that they have to finish higher up their Step 6 league to qualify for FA Cup than they used to.

But if the FA had understood the implications to clubs' perceptions then they may have looked at re-structuring the FA Cup, too, or at least providing better communication.


HarryC
Chelsea Transfer Target

Jul 6, 2019, 5:22 PM

Posts: 3028
Location: Fleet
Team(s): Fleet, Aldershot, Chelsea

Post #12 of 37 (6565 views)
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Re: [leohoenig] FA Cup Entry 2019-20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
3rd Round
32 ties, 64 teams, 20 exemptions (Premier), 44 Qual.
2nd Round
44 ties, 88 teams, 24 exemptions (Champ), 64 Qual
1st Round
64 ties, 128 teams, 48 exemptions (League1/2), 80 Qual
5Q
80 ties, 160 teams, 24 exemptions (Step 1), 136 Qual
4Q
136 ties, 272 teams, 48 exemptions (Step 2), 224 Qual
3Q
224 ties, 448 teams, 88 exemptions (Step 3), 360 Qual
2Q
360 ties, 720 teams, 620 exemptions (Step 4, 5 + byes), 100 Qual
1Q
100 ties, 200 teams (possible allow a few Step 7 in)


with one less qualifying round, this could also mean step 5 leagues could go back to starting in Mid August and not the first couple of days of the month, stressing this benefit might get the leagues on board to push the FA, better than individual clubs could


BDA_85
First Team Regular

Jul 6, 2019, 8:12 PM

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Post #13 of 37 (6321 views)
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Re: [Philmobil] FA Cup Entry 2019-20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
For all the Non-league clubs who have missed out on FA Cup entry for 2019-20 season (getting the attached letter from the FA) despite having competed in the competition for years or decades


Such as?


Philmobil
Youth Team Regular

Jul 6, 2019, 11:07 PM

Posts: 221
Location: United Kingdom
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Post #14 of 37 (6024 views)
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Re: [BDA_85] FA Cup Entry 2019-20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I've not seen all clubs who've failed to make the cut but they do include Newport (IOW), Epsom & Ewell, Bodmin Town, Glasshoughton Welfare, Burnham Ramblers, Bedfont & Feltham plus many more

Remember they haven't qualified in the same way clubs haven't done so over the last 6 years or more, by not finishing as one of the best 736 clubs, but the FA could have made changes to the Cup structure to raise the number of entries to keep them in (and open up to more who want to be in too)


Dazzla84
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Jul 7, 2019, 4:48 AM

Posts: 456
Location: South Shields
Team(s): South Shields and North East football in general

Post #15 of 37 (5888 views)
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Re: [leohoenig] FA Cup Entry 2019-20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
3rd Round
32 ties, 64 teams, 20 exemptions (Premier), 44 Qual.
2nd Round
44 ties, 88 teams, 24 exemptions (Champ), 64 Qual
1st Round
64 ties, 128 teams, 48 exemptions (League1/2), 80 Qual
5Q
80 ties, 160 teams, 24 exemptions (Step 1), 136 Qual
4Q
136 ties, 272 teams, 48 exemptions (Step 2), 224 Qual
3Q
224 ties, 448 teams, 88 exemptions (Step 3), 360 Qual
2Q
360 ties, 720 teams, 620 exemptions (Step 4, 5 + byes), 100 Qual
1Q
100 ties, 200 teams (possible allow a few Step 7 in)


That proposal looks great, just that I cant see Championship clubs being too happy about being made to play an extra round



CLARET AND BLUE PIXELS: http://claretandbluepixels.wordpress.com

My blog for Talk on Non-League Football, South Shields FC and Video Games, yep a weird combination


Islanderuk
Youth Team Sub

Jul 7, 2019, 9:58 AM

Posts: 159
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Post #16 of 37 (5656 views)
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Re: [Philmobil] FA Cup Entry 2019-20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Your comment copies below does appear to suggest that the FA have suddenly dropped a load of clubs from the competition

"For all the Non-league clubs who have missed out on FA Cup entry for 2019-20 season (getting the attached letter from the FA) despite having competed in the competition for years or decades"


royboy
Reserve Team Regular

Jul 7, 2019, 10:10 AM

Posts: 713
Location: Arnold Nottingham
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Post #17 of 37 (5630 views)
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Re: [Philmobil] FA Cup Entry 2019-20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Prior to the creation of the Alliance-now National League-there were just four qualifying rounds with a maximum of non-league clubs 280,minimum 224, along with 4 exempt to the first round proper.

Last season a small number of step 4 clubs were placed in the opening round and no doubt this will be increased for 20/21. Wether this should be uplifted to include all step 6 clubs is a matter for debate and would require a major change to the distribution of the prize fund.

The number of step 6 clubs getting in has varied but this has, almost, as much to do with non-applicants from step 5 as it as with increasing the divisions at steps 1-4. As a matter of interest the figures are as follows 12/13 125, 13/14 88,17/18 77 and last year 80. As a proportion of the whole these figures are quite low and explain why a great many clubs find themselves in/out on a regular basis.


royboy
Reserve Team Regular

Jul 7, 2019, 10:23 AM

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Post #18 of 37 (5608 views)
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Re: [Islanderuk] FA Cup Entry 2019-20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Some posters have made reference to "a letter" being issued by the F A but the quoted links do not take you to this "letter". Can anybody help with this?

On a separate question has an acceptance list be issued and, if not, how are posters able to refer to specific clubs as being excluded?

Any help would be much appreciated.


Philmobil
Youth Team Regular

Jul 7, 2019, 11:11 AM

Posts: 221
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Post #19 of 37 (5507 views)
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Re: [Islanderuk] FA Cup Entry 2019-20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

No, it says as I meant it to say, clubs who have missed out despite having competed in it for years ... no mention or inference that the FA have dropped a load of clubs from the competition


Islanderuk
Youth Team Sub

Jul 7, 2019, 11:34 AM

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Post #20 of 37 (5479 views)
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Re: [Philmobil] FA Cup Entry 2019-20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Let us not indulge in semantics


Cris
Youth Team Star

Jul 7, 2019, 11:39 AM

Posts: 352
Location: Birmingham
Team(s): Bromsgrove Sporting

Post #21 of 37 (5468 views)
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Re: [Philmobil] FA Cup Entry 2019-20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
No, it says as I meant it to say, clubs who have missed out despite having competed in it for years ... no mention or inference that the FA have dropped a load of clubs from the competition


Can you list these clubs who have missed out despite competing in it for decades?


leohoenig
Administrator

Jul 7, 2019, 12:06 PM

Posts: 13545
Location: Outer Cheltenhamshire
Team(s): Cheltenham Town

Post #22 of 37 (5425 views)
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Re: [royboy] FA Cup Entry 2019-20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Some posters have made reference to "a letter" being issued by the F A but the quoted links do not take you to this "letter". Can anybody help with this?

On a separate question has an acceptance list be issued and, if not, how are posters able to refer to specific clubs as being excluded?

Any help would be much appreciated.


https://twitter.com/.../1147151356899336193



Fat AND Pompous.
The proof that you can have too much of a good thing
Now blogging at http://www.leohoenig.com



CleethorpesOggy
Youth Team Regular

Jul 7, 2019, 1:51 PM

Posts: 207
Location: Cleethorpes
Team(s): Cleethorpes Town FC; Arnold Town FC; Nottingham Forest FC

Post #23 of 37 (5284 views)
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Re: [leohoenig] FA Cup Entry 2019-20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The letter references 1.84 ppg as the cut-off. Therefore, assuming 38 games played, you needed 70 points or more to be in.



2019/20 season: 16 competitive games
(10 NPL SE, 2 FA Cup, 2 FA Trophy, 1 League Cup, 1 FA Youth Cup)

Total goals: 64 (4 per game)
Most: 9 (Cleethorpes Town 5 Loughborough Dynamo 4 - 31/8/19)

Last 0-0: Ilkeston Town v Cleethorpes Town (Northern Premier League SE - 17/8/19)
(Current run: 15)

New grounds: 3 (Latest: Sutton Coldfield Town)


shimtoan
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Jul 8, 2019, 12:00 PM

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Post #24 of 37 (4526 views)
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Re: [CleethorpesOggy] FA Cup Entry 2019-20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

just the 4 FA Cup entrants from the EMCL then
Dunkirk - relegated from Step 5Sherwood Colliery - 3rd in EMCLHeanor Town - 4th in EMCLRadford - 1.842 PPG
are there any divisions at Step 6 with less entrants?



unless stated, all views are my own and are not the views of any other person, club, or organisation


BDA_85
First Team Regular

Jul 8, 2019, 12:29 PM

Posts: 1413
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Post #25 of 37 (4483 views)
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Re: [shimtoan] FA Cup Entry 2019-20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

SSM1 has gone from 4 last season (Broadfields United, London Lions, Winslow United & Wodson Park) to 3 (Stotfold (R), London Tigers (R) & Winslow United (PPG of 1.95)) this season (if relegated step 5 clubs enter).


(This post was edited by BDA_85 on Jul 8, 2019, 12:32 PM)

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