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EU Withdrawal Negotiations

 

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buncranaboy
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Jun 14, 2019, 10:07 PM

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Post #3801 of 3976 (887 views)
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Re: [Yatesman] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Anyone else watching "Years and Years" ?


windydcfc
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Jun 15, 2019, 1:21 AM

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Post #3802 of 3976 (842 views)
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Re: [Yatesman] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
I concur, the EU negotiations have finished !

Its like going back to your boss to press for that payrise which you have unsuccessfully done so on 9 previous attemps and hoping that they will approve it on the 10th attempt.

The EU are not going to throw Ireland under a bus !

Even if 95% of the electorate voted leave, We would not be getting a better trading deal then the one we are currently getting with them.

There isn't a club anywhere in the world where non members get better benefits then existing members!



I disagree.

We aren't looking for a better deal outwith the EU we are looking to be independant of the EU, Free to make our own deals and free to not get dragged deeper in to the EU Empire and lose more and more aspects of our sovereignity.

As for Ireland........We have allowed that scenario to be overplayed.
The EU and The Uk both need to re-visit the Irish issue.....It doesn't need to involve throwing Ireland under a bus, it just needs the EU not disingenuosly trying to rip NI from the UK......It's worth £39billion to the EU to sort it !

A bit of realism and a smidge of pragmatism and all will be good...........Boris will see to that.



I’ve seen people copy a few statements made by politicians. But you take it to a new level. Any comments on the steel & car industry? I’m sure there’s a politicians narrative that you can copy from somewhere!


Yatesman
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Jun 15, 2019, 11:14 AM

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Post #3803 of 3976 (776 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Whatevs!

Shock horror....
Contributor to a political debate makes a political statement!!!!

Really not sure what your point is !

An accusation that someone agrees with a politician and is singing from the same hymn sheet is hardly a way to make a derogatory dig is it?

You really must to better.


PaulC
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Jun 15, 2019, 12:23 PM

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Post #3804 of 3976 (759 views)
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Re: [Yatesman] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
A bit of realism and a smidge of pragmatism and all will be good...........Boris will see to that.


You don't often see "realism" and "Boris" in the same sentence.

Like so many of his supporters, the charlatan is a fantasist.


colpic
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Jun 15, 2019, 8:54 PM

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Post #3805 of 3976 (697 views)
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Re: [buncranaboy] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Anyone else watching "Years and Years" ?


Yes but it's total nonsense. How could anyone possibly imagine that the PM could be manipulated by unknown shadowy figures? Certainly not someone with the integrity of Boris.....



Where's the 'ignore this poster' button?


Yatesman
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Jun 15, 2019, 10:56 PM

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Post #3806 of 3976 (668 views)
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Re: [colpic] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Anyone else watching "Years and Years" ?


Yes but it's total nonsense. How could anyone possibly imagine that the PM could be manipulated by unknown shadowy figures? Certainly not someone with the integrity of Boris.....


Storyline is obviously absolutely contrived from the lefty prejudices required to rationalise their constant beatings at the polls.
A bit of Novacaine for the lefty brain, perhaps!!


buncranaboy
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Jun 15, 2019, 11:09 PM

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Post #3807 of 3976 (663 views)
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Re: [Yatesman] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Well I'm not "lefty " but can still manage to enjoy it as thought-provoking television.
Does everything have to have an agenda with you?


Ronsdog
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Jun 15, 2019, 11:48 PM

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Post #3808 of 3976 (649 views)
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Re: [buncranaboy] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Anyone else watching "Years and Years" ?


Yup.

It pretty much sums up my view of a post-crash dystopian Britain that I've been predicting for the past couple of years. And in my view it matters little whether we are still members of the EU or not.

It's simply inevitable IMO.


Yatesman
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Jun 16, 2019, 9:54 AM

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Post #3809 of 3976 (595 views)
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Re: [buncranaboy] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Well I'm not "lefty " but can still manage to enjoy it as thought-provoking television.
Does everything have to have an agenda with you?


I can't comment further as I haven't seen it......but I didn't bring it into this thread and based on that and the description by the other poster and the fact it's a BBC production , then it's not a big step to sense a BBC led agenda.

Like Ronsdog, I think much is out of our control at present

Technology and scientific prgress will accelerate so far ahead of people's understanding of their impact and Big Gov't and Big Business will harnass those advances to such an overwhelming degree that your average Joe will be completely subsumed by a world that denies any true sense of Liberty and choice.

Already the law makers and regulatory bodies are overwhelmed and are unable too mitigate the intrusions of Social Media companies , Global Corporate Businesses and Government backed Cyber intrusions that , tbh we are already f*ck*d. Our lives are completely out of our control. The vote to Leave the EU is another manifestation where The Powers that Be will not allow free will or free choice.

Life as lived today is just a veneer of Liberty. People know something is wrong, it's sometimes hard to get a true handle on what is wrong.

It seems to many people that populism is the antidote.
Too many others mass protest is the answer.

The world is in turmoil and that will be the new normal.


leohoenig
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Jun 16, 2019, 12:34 PM

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Post #3810 of 3976 (562 views)
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Re: [buncranaboy] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Well I'm not "lefty " but can still manage to enjoy it as thought-provoking television.
Does everything have to have an agenda with you?


Downloaded and watched the first episode following comments on this thread. Not sure what to make of it yet, although I note the full PC checked cast list.

It does occur to me that to some extent, Russel T Davies is expanding a single episode of Doctor Who into a whole series - with the exception that I assume we don't get the Doctor turning back time at the end so as everything is OK



Fat AND Pompous.
The proof that you can have too much of a good thing
Now blogging at http://www.leohoenig.com



Yatesman
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Jun 17, 2019, 7:12 AM

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Post #3811 of 3976 (463 views)
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Re: [leohoenig] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I wonder if the writers of 'Years and Years' had the imagnation gor this ..........

https://ukandeu.ac.uk/gravy-train-a-first-taste-of-life-as-an-mep/


Yatesman
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Jun 17, 2019, 1:20 PM

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Post #3812 of 3976 (404 views)
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Re: [Yatesman] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Tom Watson has made a gutless speech of appeasement to the EU , making absolutely no pretence that the Labour Party will take it's lead from it's small membership than from it's mass voter base.

All pretence is gone now that Labour is absolutely a Remain party and utterly out of sync with Corbyn.


kirby knitters
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Jun 17, 2019, 2:04 PM

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Post #3813 of 3976 (385 views)
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Re: [PaulC] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
"Nigel Farage, the man of the Paypal."
Gordon Brown

Rather an expensive day for SNP MEP Allyn Smith who has issued an "unreserved" apology over his ridiculous statement that the Brexit Party is a "money laundering front"

Chairman Richard Tew threatened to sue Smith over the claim made in a TV interview. Smith has now admitted he has no evidence to back up such a claim and has agreed to pay a "significant" contribution to Tice's legal costs and also make a donation to the Help for Heroes charity.


steve walker
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Jun 17, 2019, 6:03 PM

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Post #3814 of 3976 (338 views)
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Re: [Yatesman] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Tom Watson has made a gutless speech of appeasement to the EU , making absolutely no pretence that the Labour Party will take it's lead from it's small membership than from it's mass voter base.

All pretence is gone now that Labour is absolutely a Remain party and utterly out of sync with Corbyn.



I'm not sure how that is "gutless" or "appeasement". Tom Watson wants a public vote on the terms of leaving the EU. So does Sir Kier Stalmer, Emily Thornberry and others not just in Labour.

I'm not a Labour party member but I thought their policy was determined democratically at Conference? Their policy seems to be to push for a General Election and have a public vote if that can't be achieved.

Once Johnson is elected as Tory leader (I refuse to call him Boris as that implies a harmless buffoon) there will be a General Election because he won't get a no deal exit through Parliament, and his advisors who are pulling the strings will be telling him the whole country loves him so he will think he will win. The EU have already said that Oct 31st will be extended in the event of a Referendum or Election.

This is how I see it panning out so Corbyn is probably right to hide behind 'party policy' for now and wait until the gloves come off for an election.


jon b
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Jun 17, 2019, 6:35 PM

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Post #3815 of 3976 (328 views)
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Re: [Yatesman] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I wonder if the writers of 'Years and Years' had the imagnation gor this ..........

https://ukandeu.ac.uk/...e-of-life-as-an-mep/


Anything that keeps the thoroughly obnoxious Fox out of the UK is money well spent. Cool

No doubt Nigel and his former colleague UKIP MEPs have somehow steeled themselves to take the money over the years.

.


jon b
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Jun 17, 2019, 7:31 PM

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Post #3816 of 3976 (315 views)
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Re: [Yatesman] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Thanks for bringing Tom Watson's excellent speech to our attention. A pleasant change from the Big Bad ooo ever so frightening EU conspiracy Brexiter nonsense.

As he says……


We talk about the evils of no-deal till we’re blue in the face, because we’re still scared to tell the truth about Europe. We’re more comfortable warning of an ineffable catastrophe, because we’re hard-wired to be unable to say the words that I’ve come here this morning to say:

The European Union is not something to apologise for. It is a good thing. It is Good with a capital G. An enduring, deep, benevolent collaboration between sovereign states unique in the history of the world.

It produced a lasting peace from the ashes of war.

It produced prosperity where there had been deprivation.

It produced transnational partnership where once there was suspicion and division.

It’s not perfect, but what large institution is?

The core values of the EU are internationalism. Solidarity. Freedom. Those are British values.



If anyone of ability such as Watson were Labour Leader, the party would be way ahead in the opinion polls.

But as a Lib Dem I'm delighted that Labour are sticking with Jezza, it's bringing my lot back from the dead.

.


Yatesman
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Jun 17, 2019, 8:10 PM

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Post #3817 of 3976 (296 views)
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Re: [kirby knitters] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
"Nigel Farage, the man of the Paypal."
Gordon Brown

Rather an expensive day for SNP MEP Allyn Smith who has issued an "unreserved" apology over his ridiculous statement that the Brexit Party is a "money laundering front"

Chairman Richard Tew threatened to sue Smith over the claim made in a TV interview. Smith has now admitted he has no evidence to back up such a claim and has agreed to pay a "significant" contribution to Tice's legal costs and also make a donation to the Help for Heroes charity.



That is excellent. Not only is the man now a proven liar , he has had to contribute to 'Help for Heroes' a charity that aids ex Armed Forces.

When you consider how much the SNP detests The British Army that is genius!


Yatesman
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Jun 17, 2019, 8:14 PM

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Post #3818 of 3976 (294 views)
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Re: [jon b] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
I wonder if the writers of 'Years and Years' had the imagnation gor this ..........

https://ukandeu.ac.uk/...e-of-life-as-an-mep/


Anything that keeps the thoroughly obnoxious Fox out of the UK is money well spent. Cool

No doubt Nigel and his former colleague UKIP MEPs have somehow steeled themselves to take the money over the years.

.


I know little about her character but I'm prepared to trust her insights into the running of the EU....seeing as she's an MEP 'n' all.

Taking the money back is the best thing our MEP's could be doing.


Yatesman
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Jun 17, 2019, 8:55 PM

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Post #3819 of 3976 (281 views)
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Re: [jon b] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Thanks for bringing Tom Watson's excellent speech to our attention. A pleasant change from the Big Bad ooo ever so frightening EU conspiracy Brexiter nonsense.

As he says……


We talk about the evils of no-deal till we’re blue in the face, because we’re still scared to tell the truth about Europe. We’re more comfortable warning of an ineffable catastrophe, because we’re hard-wired to be unable to say the words that I’ve come here this morning to say:

The European Union is not something to apologise for. It is a good thing. It is Good with a capital G. An enduring, deep, benevolent collaboration between sovereign states unique in the history of the world.

It produced a lasting peace from the ashes of war.

It produced prosperity where there had been deprivation.

It produced transnational partnership where once there was suspicion and division.

It’s not perfect, but what large institution is?

The core values of the EU are internationalism. Solidarity. Freedom. Those are British values.



If anyone of ability such as Watson were Labour Leader, the party would be way ahead in the opinion polls.

But as a Lib Dem I'm delighted that Labour are sticking with Jezza, it's bringing my lot back from the dead.

.


Watson's rhetoric of appeasement is absolute nonsense.

Pure Rose Tinted hyperbole.

The Collabaration of States or the Domination of States ?

Where is the freedom to resist?

Where is the freedom to change your mind.?

Where is the freedom to opt out ?

There is none.

Once you're in that's it and you go deeper and deeper and all under the guise of economic proclivity.

In order to go in deeper and deeper you lose more and more Sovereignity .............until there is none left and your nation is a region in a federal Europe , still detested by a Jealous French, Fearful German and psychophantic Belgian ruling Elite.

British no more. Independant no more. Able to chart or own course and create our own unique and brilliant destiny no more.

Forever an apologetic, subdued and defeated people and nation.

That's the future Remainers are proposing and despite LOSING a UK peoples' vote on the question already the arrogant, entitled and contemptuous Remainers prefer to listen to the continental voices over their own peoples' democratic decision.

Absolutely Shameless

Prosperity has flourished worldwide, not just in the Eurozone.

Peace flourished because there was no appetite for war anyway and because The US paid for German re industrialization....Oh, that and NATO.

Transnational Partnerships were created through trade through peace and through the UN and the EEC.

The EU do not believe in Internationalism......It is a closed shop and requires special terms for access.
Solidarity............With Whom? Not the UK.
Freedom...........Free to be told what to do and how to do it and pay handsomely for the privilege .

I notice Watson didn't use the term 'Democratic' That would be a tough attribute to pin on the EU.
Maybe he has conceded that , in his opinion, that is no longer a British Value!!!


Ronsdog
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Jun 17, 2019, 10:20 PM

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Post #3820 of 3976 (258 views)
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Re: [Yatesman] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

 

Well said Mr Y, a succinct and surgical appraisal of the EUs intentions for all of the continents nations, not just the UK.
Sovereign nations to be subsumed into a pan European super state.

I don't always agree with your rhetoric or occasional disdainful attitude toward others who hold an opposite view, but on this occasion you outlined the reasons for the why myself and millions of others voted to leave the EU, without lapsing into rancour.

Great post.


Richard Rundle
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Jun 17, 2019, 10:24 PM

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Post #3821 of 3976 (255 views)
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Re: [Yatesman] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

Where is the freedom to change your mind.?


Excuse me while I roll on the floor laughing. You've been saying for three years the British people are not allowed to change their mind.


PaulC
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Jun 17, 2019, 10:28 PM

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Post #3822 of 3976 (253 views)
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Re: [Yatesman] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

"Where is the freedom to opt out ?"

Does this apply to Scotland within the UK too?


jon b
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Jun 17, 2019, 10:59 PM

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Post #3823 of 3976 (247 views)
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Re: [Yatesman] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I notice Watson didn't use the term 'Democratic' That would be a tough attribute to pin on the EU.
Maybe he has conceded that , in his opinion, that is no longer a British Value!!!


Democracy? Excellent! Obviously you want more of his speech. Cool

Enjoy:

"I’m a European democratic socialist. I don’t go along with the EU despite being a socialist, I embrace the EU because I am a socialist.

Democratic socialism is achieving common causes by the strength of collective endeavour. That’s what Europe is."



And he's very keen on democracy in the UK.


"The notion that it’s in some way undemocractic to let the people put an end to this crisis because, after three years, parliament and government cannot, is absurd.

And if you want Brexit, and you believe there is still a majority for it in the UK, then a public vote will break the deadlock and deliver the Brexit you want.

Whereas if many people have changed their minds and no longer want Brexit now that they have more information about what it means, how is it undemocratic to give them the chance to express that three years on and with the country in limbo?

Labour is the party of democracy - so we must ask the people …"




Personally, unlike Watson, rather than a Referendum or GE I'd settle for a Brexit that's wasn't Unicorn No Deal territory, but with Bojo and Jezza looking like being Leaders of HM Govt and HM Opposition for the crucial period, who knows where we'll end up. Crazy

.


Yatesman
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Jun 18, 2019, 7:02 AM

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Post #3824 of 3976 (202 views)
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Re: [PaulC] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
"Where is the freedom to opt out ?"

Does this apply to Scotland within the UK too?


Obviously !!

Now, you can't possibly have a referendum every 5 years on such a fundamental issue as that would be economic and social suicide. How could businesses plan or thrive under those conditions? How could society settle or be at ease with itself ?

Once every 30 years is reasonable, but only if there is an obvious sense that a referendum on this issue is wanted by a large portion of the populace .

I'd be happy to pencil in an Indyref for July 2045 right now if you wish !


Yatesman
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Jun 18, 2019, 7:08 AM

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Post #3825 of 3976 (199 views)
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Re: [Richard Rundle] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

Where is the freedom to change your mind.?


Excuse me while I roll on the floor laughing. You've been saying for three years the British people are not allowed to change their mind.


Wrong, You have quite embarassingly misunderstood.

I've been saying that I want the result of the 2016 implemented before any other vote on any other issues pertaining to Brexit.

I could concede another national plebiscite if there was not a Remain option, so if there was a No Deal / Specific negotiated Deal option.

As with Indy Ref , I could contemplate a vote on rejoining in say, 2049, if there is a general feeling from the populace that that would be desirable.

I could pencil in another EU referendum for 2049 right now, if you like !

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