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Appeals - Summer 2019

 

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petermiller36
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May 19, 2019, 12:23 PM

Posts: 1112
Location: Nottingham
Team(s): Ware & AFC Wimbledon

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Appeals - Summer 2019 Can't Post or Reply Privately

With their being a lot of fallout from the FA's league, and a huge thread regarding the line ups, I thought I'd start a thread to show where all the appeals are at.

Buckhurst Hill - non promotion from Step 7 - Awaiting date
Frimley Green - non promotion from Step 6 - Stated they will appeal
Harleston Town - non promotion and relegation from Step 6 - Awaiting date
London Colney - placement in Essex Senior - Stated they will appeal

If you know of others then I'll add them to the list.



Steps 4-7 Relegation and Promotion document:
http://bit.ly/PPG1819


Lionarm
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May 19, 2019, 2:58 PM

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Re: [petermiller36] Appeals - Summer 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Staplehurst Monarchs United and Peckham Town have been denied places in the Southern Counties East Football League First Division due to ground grading issues. A League statement said: ďBoth have appealed this decision and if are successful could still join us in the coming weeks.Ē


keneastlancs
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May 19, 2019, 3:24 PM

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Location: Darwen Lancashire
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Re: [Lionarm] Appeals - Summer 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

There have been 7 clubs relegated from step 6 (not including the ones relegated due to ground grading) they are (Arnold town, Codicote, Cove, Harworth Colliery, Hatfield Town, Stone Dominoes, Thrapston) and currently 7 vacancies in the leagues (excluding Hellenic) -2 in SC, 3in SCE and 2 in WMRLl, simply bring those 7 back in tweak a bit and done; then bring- in the Hellenic division 2 clubs that wanted promotion (Langley, Long Crendon, Moreton Rangers, Wantage Town Dev) and promote Steplehurst Monachs, Buckhursrt Hill and Peckham this would give an extra 7 clubs - tweak again and the Hellenic division 1s could have 18 teams in each a much more acceptable number in the league and this would stop appeals. and they keep to what they said about no teams relegated from step 6. Leaving the whole of step 6 just 4 teams short of the ideal.... Just a thought.


Sarumio
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May 19, 2019, 3:49 PM

Posts: 6233
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Re: [keneastlancs] Appeals - Summer 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Nice idea. But the FA had this option and chose against it.

Besides, they canít choose to promote Buckhurst Hill, yet not do the same with Letchworth Garden City Eagles or even Ilkley Town.

And they canít promote 3rd place Peckham Town, without infuriating other Step 7 runners up and triggering mass appeals from the likes of Cranfield, PFC Victoria and Clay Cross.

Of course all the above is nonsense and the FA can do whatever they like, with little regard for their rules, if the breaking of them, suits their own goals, and makes their life as easy as possible!


Richard Rundle
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May 19, 2019, 3:55 PM

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Re: [keneastlancs] Appeals - Summer 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

When did they say there was going to be no relegations from Step 6? (I haven't read the 40-odd pages of the "Projections" thread). That makes no sense. Especially when they've specifically said no reprieves for bottom clubs in Steps 1-5.

If you've finished bottom of your division, you've got no comeback really. You deserve to go down, and if that leaves a space somewhere, fair enough.

The only relegated team who've got much of a case is Codicote.


Sarumio
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May 19, 2019, 4:20 PM

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Re: [Richard Rundle] Appeals - Summer 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Richard, you cannot seriously be comparing the situation at Step 5 to that at Step 6.

Step 5 is full and can always be filled. Step 6 is not and cannot be anywhere near as easily.

And no, bottom place does not mean relegation is deserved, necessarily. Promotion from step 6 divisions has been based on PPG. Relegation from Step 6 divisions has done been done in the same way! Thereís no consistency and rules are not being abused by! Harworth Colliery has the best PPG of all Step 6 bottom placed sides, and were relegated whilst New College Swindon who had the worst, stay at Step 6? You think thatís right!? And you say the others donít have any room to complain? You really think

Would you be saying the same had a Step 6 runner up with a worse PPG for promoted over another with a better record? Are you also in favour of Northallertonís promotion?


windydcfc
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May 19, 2019, 4:43 PM

Posts: 10251
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Re: [Sarumio] Appeals - Summer 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Richard, you cannot seriously be comparing the situation at Step 5 to that at Step 6.

Step 5 is full and can always be filled. Step 6 is not and cannot be anywhere near as easily.

And no, bottom place does not mean relegation is deserved, necessarily. Promotion from step 6 divisions has been based on PPG. Relegation from Step 6 divisions has done been done in the same way! Thereís no consistency and rules are not being abused by! Harworth Colliery has the best PPG of all Step 6 bottom placed sides, and were relegated whilst New College Swindon who had the worst, stay at Step 6? You think thatís right!? And you say the others donít have any room to complain? You really think

Would you be saying the same had a Step 6 runner up with a worse PPG for promoted over another with a better record? Are you also in favour of Northallertonís promotion?



What makes it worse is that Northallerton & Knaresborough are practically neighbours. I canít believe the FA have broken their own rules over 30 miles.
On another point, Newark Flowserve arenít happy with being placed in the MFL. Their preference was UCL, then NCEL & then MFL. I wonder if one of the 3 Leicestershire clubs that have been laterally transferred would be interested in a joint appeal(if they want to stay in the MFL). Otherwise donít promote Northallerton, move Knaresborough & place Newark Flowserve in the NCEL. Promote Frimley Green, move a team across from the CCL(not sure who) to the SSML & return Eynesbury to the UCL.


Dr Love
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May 19, 2019, 4:50 PM

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Re: [Sarumio] Appeals - Summer 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Thereís no consistency and rules are not being abused by! Harworth Colliery has the best PPG of all Step 6 bottom placed sides, and were relegated whilst New College Swindon who had the worst, stay at Step 6? You think thatís right!? And you say the others donít have any room to complain? You really think

New College were in a division where teams dropped out. Harworth weren't. So presumably New College are the worst third bottom team.


Sarumio
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May 19, 2019, 4:58 PM

Posts: 6233
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Re: [Dr Love] Appeals - Summer 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Thereís no consistency and rules are not being abused by! Harworth Colliery has the best PPG of all Step 6 bottom placed sides, and were relegated whilst New College Swindon who had the worst, stay at Step 6? You think thatís right!? And you say the others donít have any room to complain? You really think

New College were in a division where teams dropped out. Harworth weren't. So presumably New College are the worst third bottom team.


As I mentioned on another thread, that doesnít wash! Cove?


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


May 19, 2019, 5:00 PM

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Re: [Dr Love] Appeals - Summer 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Thereís no consistency and rules are not being abused by! Harworth Colliery has the best PPG of all Step 6 bottom placed sides, and were relegated whilst New College Swindon who had the worst, stay at Step 6? You think thatís right!? And you say the others donít have any room to complain? You really think

New College were in a division where teams dropped out. Harworth weren't. So presumably New College are the worst third bottom team.



The NL2 was full & Durham City have one of the worst ppg at step 6. They also have no ground & are a basket case. Iím not sure why the FA couldnít have moved Cleator Moor Celtic alongside Carlisle City to the NL2!


Atavistic
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May 19, 2019, 5:01 PM

Posts: 607
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Re: [Sarumio] Appeals - Summer 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

But they've already broken the rule on multiple promotions from a Step 7 league by promoting both Worcester Raiders and Darlaston Town 1874 from WMRL1. So all these unsuccessful runners-up already have perfectly valid grounds for appeal. And they already broke the rules to promote Raiders anyway, by giving them dispensation to get their ground sorted but still promoting them (and not doing the same for Buckhurst Hill and Letchworth Garden City Eagles).
Dozens of clubs have strong cases for appeals based on such inconsistencies, so it'll be interesting to see how many take up their right to appeal because of this.



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Karen Browne
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May 19, 2019, 5:04 PM

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Re: [windydcfc] Appeals - Summer 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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In Reply To
Richard, you cannot seriously be comparing the situation at Step 5 to that at Step 6.

Step 5 is full and can always be filled. Step 6 is not and cannot be anywhere near as easily.

And no, bottom place does not mean relegation is deserved, necessarily. Promotion from step 6 divisions has been based on PPG. Relegation from Step 6 divisions has done been done in the same way! Thereís no consistency and rules are not being abused by! Harworth Colliery has the best PPG of all Step 6 bottom placed sides, and were relegated whilst New College Swindon who had the worst, stay at Step 6? You think thatís right!? And you say the others donít have any room to complain? You really think

Would you be saying the same had a Step 6 runner up with a worse PPG for promoted over another with a better record? Are you also in favour of Northallertonís promotion?



What makes it worse is that Northallerton & Knaresborough are practically neighbours. I canít believe the FA have broken their own rules over 30 miles.
On another point, Newark Flowserve arenít happy with being placed in the MFL. Their preference was UCL, then NCEL & then MFL. I wonder if one of the 3 Leicestershire clubs that have been laterally transferred would be interested in a joint appeal(if they want to stay in the MFL). Otherwise donít promote Northallerton, move Knaresborough & place Newark Flowserve in the NCEL. Promote Frimley Green, move a team across from the CCL(not sure who) to the SSML & return Eynesbury to the UCL.


Eynesbury Rovers requested a lateral move



Karen Browne
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Fixtures Officer


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


May 19, 2019, 5:10 PM

Posts: 10251
Location: Barnetby
Team(s): Derby County FC England Borussia MŲnchengladbach

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Re: [Karen Browne] Appeals - Summer 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Richard, you cannot seriously be comparing the situation at Step 5 to that at Step 6.

Step 5 is full and can always be filled. Step 6 is not and cannot be anywhere near as easily.

And no, bottom place does not mean relegation is deserved, necessarily. Promotion from step 6 divisions has been based on PPG. Relegation from Step 6 divisions has done been done in the same way! Thereís no consistency and rules are not being abused by! Harworth Colliery has the best PPG of all Step 6 bottom placed sides, and were relegated whilst New College Swindon who had the worst, stay at Step 6? You think thatís right!? And you say the others donít have any room to complain? You really think

Would you be saying the same had a Step 6 runner up with a worse PPG for promoted over another with a better record? Are you also in favour of Northallertonís promotion?



What makes it worse is that Northallerton & Knaresborough are practically neighbours. I canít believe the FA have broken their own rules over 30 miles.
On another point, Newark Flowserve arenít happy with being placed in the MFL. Their preference was UCL, then NCEL & then MFL. I wonder if one of the 3 Leicestershire clubs that have been laterally transferred would be interested in a joint appeal(if they want to stay in the MFL). Otherwise donít promote Northallerton, move Knaresborough & place Newark Flowserve in the NCEL. Promote Frimley Green, move a team across from the CCL(not sure who) to the SSML & return Eynesbury to the UCL.


Eynesbury Rovers requested a lateral move



So did Ollerton Town & Shirebrook & Bolsover didnít. Move the clubs that donít want to move & leave the one that does Crazy


Dr Love
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May 19, 2019, 5:42 PM

Posts: 2963
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Re: [Sarumio] Appeals - Summer 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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As I mentioned on another thread, that doesnít wash! Cove?

Quite clearly it does. Otherwise what could be fairly consisdered the worst club to finish step six last season would be able to stay up.

The Combined Counties 1st division had an extra team put in after the season started, and one that no-one seemed to want there. They disappeared and Cove finished 18th, which at best is second bottom. A look at their twitter doesn't make them seem particularly unhappy about their demotion (unlike some of the other teams mentioned).


paulh66
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May 19, 2019, 6:20 PM

Posts: 18644
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Re: [Atavistic] Appeals - Summer 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Until we know the full facts I'd be wary of outright accusations that the FA has broken its own rules. No doubt that the likes of the Northallerton and Darlaston promotions are a surprise, but they may yet be a product of, say, an interpretation of 5.5.2(e) - filling a vacancy created after the end of the season at step 5 and below. A rather racey and arguably unsatisfactory interpretation, I'd agree, especially if the vacancy only arose as a result of the FA's allocations in the first place, and the wording of the Reg only refers to reprieves rather than extra promotions. But the catch-all Reg 5.11 (i.e. any question arising re the interpretation of the Regulations is decided at the FA's discretion) would allow for it if 5.5.2(e) had turned out to be a grey area in the committee's deliberations. Time will tell if that was the FA's thinking, or if they've relied on something else, or if they have indeed blundered.

I saw Frimley Green's tweet earlier today. I only skimmed it but they seemed to be aggrieved because of two factors - first, the fact that clubs higher up went bust during the season, which FG don't seem to realise triggered reprieves (in line with the regulations) rather than extra promotions, and second, the promotion of a third place club, Northallerton, ahead of them, which I would have sympathy with them about. Though because we don't yet know the full facts it's a bit of a stretch at this stage to say that'd be a firm enough basis for a successful appeal.


markust
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May 19, 2019, 6:31 PM

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Re: [paulh66] Appeals - Summer 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
first, the fact that clubs higher up went bust during the season, which FG don't seem to realise triggered reprieves (in line with the regulations) rather than extra promotions


That's not correct. The rules were very specific that 2nd placed clubs would be promoted to fill spots before step 5 clubs were reprieved.

At no point do third placed clubs come anywhere near the rulebook.



Quote
The Clubs in the bottom two places in each of the fourteen divisions at Step 5 at the end of the Regular Season will be relegated and placed in the most geographically appropriate division at Step 6. These Clubs will be replaced by the nineteen Clubs finishing in first position in each of the Leagues at Step 6 at the end of the Regular Season together with the required number of Clubs finishing in second position at the end of the Regular Season on a points per match ratio. If there are insufficient Clubs to fill vacancies Clubs finishing second to bottom of the Step 5 divisions will
be reprieved so that the best such Club shall be reprieved first.


http://www.hallmarksecurityleague.com/...lations%20018-19.pdf


paulh66
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May 19, 2019, 6:41 PM

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Re: [markust] Appeals - Summer 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
first, the fact that clubs higher up went bust during the season, which FG don't seem to realise triggered reprieves (in line with the regulations) rather than extra promotions


That's not correct. The rules were very specific that 2nd placed clubs would be promoted to fill spots before step 5 clubs were reprieved.

http://www.hallmarksecurityleague.com/...lations%20018-19.pdf


It is correct. You're looking in the wrong section, try 5.5.3 - vacancies created during the season, which is what Frimley Green were alluding to about clubs folding.


petermiller36
First Team Sub

May 19, 2019, 7:00 PM

Posts: 1112
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Re: [paulh66] Appeals - Summer 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Hmmm seems I can't edit the original post.

Updated list:

Buckhurst Hill - non promotion from Step 7 - Awaiting date
Frimley Green - non promotion from Step 6 - Stated they will appeal
Harleston Town - non promotion and relegation from Step 6 - Awaiting date
London Colney - placement in Essex Senior - Stated they will appeal
Peckham Town - non promotion from Step 7 - Awaiting date
Staplehurst Monarchs United - non promotion from Step 7 - Awaiting date



Steps 4-7 Relegation and Promotion document:
http://bit.ly/PPG1819


shimtoan
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May 19, 2019, 7:48 PM

Posts: 1307
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Re: [Karen Browne] Appeals - Summer 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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...
On another point, Newark Flowserve arenít happy with being placed in the MFL...

Blank me! 60 mile minimum round trip! I remember a time when Alliance clubs weren't happy about having to travel to ours, now they've got an extra half hour each way



unless stated, all views are my own and are not the views of any other person, club, or organisation


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


May 19, 2019, 7:56 PM

Posts: 10251
Location: Barnetby
Team(s): Derby County FC England Borussia MŲnchengladbach

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Re: [shimtoan] Appeals - Summer 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
...
On another point, Newark Flowserve arenít happy with being placed in the MFL...

Blank me! 60 mile minimum round trip! I remember a time when Alliance clubs weren't happy about having to travel to ours, now they've got an extra half hour each way



I canít understand why the FA has moved Shepshed. Who are on the far side of the M1. Whilst Newark Flowserve(from Balderton) are almost on the A1. They would have to travel down the A46 & drive passed a load of UCL clubs to play some MFL Prem teams.


shimtoan
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May 19, 2019, 8:09 PM

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Re: [windydcfc] Appeals - Summer 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
...
On another point, Newark Flowserve arenít happy with being placed in the MFL...

Blank me! 60 mile minimum round trip! I remember a time when Alliance clubs weren't happy about having to travel to ours, now they've got an extra half hour each way



I canít understand why the FA has moved Shepshed. Who are on the far side of the M1. Whilst Newark Flowserve(from Balderton) are almost on the A1. They would have to travel down the A46 & drive passed a load of UCL clubs to play some MFL Prem teams.

Wazza's map makes it seem the UCL is cutting the MFL is two



unless stated, all views are my own and are not the views of any other person, club, or organisation


Reborn Yellow
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May 19, 2019, 8:22 PM

Posts: 172
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Re: [petermiller36] Appeals - Summer 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I can't see what Peckham Town's problem is. Clay Cross are the club who ought to be appealing. Best PPG of second placed teams, better record than Darlaston.


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


May 19, 2019, 8:26 PM

Posts: 10251
Location: Barnetby
Team(s): Derby County FC England Borussia MŲnchengladbach

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In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
...
On another point, Newark Flowserve arenít happy with being placed in the MFL...

Blank me! 60 mile minimum round trip! I remember a time when Alliance clubs weren't happy about having to travel to ours, now they've got an extra half hour each way



I canít understand why the FA has moved Shepshed. Who are on the far side of the M1. Whilst Newark Flowserve(from Balderton) are almost on the A1. They would have to travel down the A46 & drive passed a load of UCL clubs to play some MFL Prem teams.

Wazza's map makes it seem the UCL is cutting the MFL is two



Itís difficult to move every club. Switch Lutterworth, Saffron Dynamo, Rugby & Shepshed to the MFL. Then South Normanton, Selston, Long Eaton Town & Newark Flowserve to the UCL.


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


May 19, 2019, 8:37 PM

Posts: 10251
Location: Barnetby
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Re: [windydcfc] Appeals - Summer 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I understand Stonehouse Town will be appealing. Especially after finding out that the FA are looking for 3 extra clubs for the Hellenic & the fact that the FALC promoted 2 clubs from the WMRL1.


Sarumio
Man City Transfer Target!

May 19, 2019, 8:48 PM

Posts: 6233
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Re: [Reborn Yellow] Appeals - Summer 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I can't see what Peckham Town's problem is. Clay Cross are the club who ought to be appealing. Best PPG of second placed teams, better record than Darlaston.


I'm just thinking out loud as it were but Peckham Town's 'problem' MIGHT be that if Staplehurst & Monarchs United are not being allowed up due to ground grading, then if Peckham's ground IS up to standard then they should be promoted in Staplehurst's place.

If that is the case then they would be entitled to a place at Step 6 ahead of Clay Cross Town.

I suspect that, having not been promoted, Peckham's ground hasn't passed muster either though.

Clay Cross should appeal (on the basis Darlaston have been promoted with an inferior PPG).

Codicote should appeal on the basis that their relegation is effectively unlawful.

Cove should appeal as they didn't finish bottom! AC London should be counted as the bottom side. And that they've been replaced by a completely new club from outside of England!

The remaining 5 (Arnold Town, Harworth, Hatfield Town, Thrapston Town, Stone Dominoes) should all appeal based on the fact they weren't the clubs with the worst PPG, and have been relegated on geographical discrimination.

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