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Home: Non League Football Information: History:
Essex Thames-side Challenge Trophy

 

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southend statto
First Team Star

Jul 22, 2016, 10:09 AM

Posts: 1923
Location: East Anglia (South Division)
Team(s): most of my local sides

Post #26 of 66 (5425 views)
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Re: [Southend_phil] Essex Thames-side Challenge Trophy [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

thanks Phil,

along with other information passed to me, this leaves just the one final to find a result for.

1965-66 Leytonstone beat Ilford at Ilford on 26th May 1966

on a side note, is this a record? Daggers played all their 1970-71 ETT matches - from 1st round to the final - during the 1971-72 season! surprised they didn't withdraw!
(they did mange to fit in their 1971-72 ETT fixtures in the same season.)


southend statto
First Team Star

Aug 11, 2016, 1:04 PM

Posts: 1923
Location: East Anglia (South Division)
Team(s): most of my local sides

Post #27 of 66 (5131 views)
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Re: [southend statto] Essex Thames-side Challenge Trophy [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

one more query - as I have two different scores for the 1991-92 final.


Billericay Town drew with Ford United 2-2 a.e.t. but did Town win 4-2 or 3-2 on penalties?


Thank you














Ropemaker
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Aug 11, 2016, 1:44 PM

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Post #28 of 66 (5106 views)
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Re: [southend statto] Essex Thames-side Challenge Trophy [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
one more query - as I have two different scores for the 1991-92 final.

Billericay Town drew with Ford United 2-2 a.e.t. but did Town win 4-2 or 3-2 on penalties?

Thank you

NL Directory has 4-2



Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get you.


southend statto
First Team Star

Aug 11, 2016, 1:59 PM

Posts: 1923
Location: East Anglia (South Division)
Team(s): most of my local sides

Post #29 of 66 (5089 views)
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Re: [Ropemaker] Essex Thames-side Challenge Trophy [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

thank you, but the Essex Senior League's weekly 'Centre Spot' has 3-2 - one to resolve!


jonw
Youth Team Regular


Aug 12, 2016, 12:21 PM

Posts: 241
Location: Braintree
Team(s): Braintree Town

Post #30 of 66 (4981 views)
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Re: [southend statto] Essex Thames-side Challenge Trophy [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I'm pretty sure I was at that game and took photos on the pitch at the end of the game. I'll check my records tonight.


jonw
Youth Team Regular


Aug 14, 2016, 12:43 AM

Posts: 241
Location: Braintree
Team(s): Braintree Town

Post #31 of 66 (4883 views)
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Re: [southend statto] Essex Thames-side Challenge Trophy [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The 1991-92 final was played at Billericay on 21st April 1992 in front of a crowd of 600+. Billericay led 2-1 at half time, with Ford equalising in the second half. The game went to extra time where there was no further score so the game went to penalties. Billericay won the shoot-out 3-1. That doesn't match either of the scores you have seen but I am very particular with penalty scores and if that's what I put down at the time I am 100% sure that is correct! Ford had a player sent off.


southend statto
First Team Star

Aug 15, 2016, 10:02 PM

Posts: 1923
Location: East Anglia (South Division)
Team(s): most of my local sides

Post #32 of 66 (4756 views)
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Re: [jonw] Essex Thames-side Challenge Trophy [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

thanks Jon. someone else who went to this final is looking up the score for me - just waiting for him to get back to me - let's hope he doesn't come up with something else! anyway, thanks for taking the time out to look this up for me - much appreciated.


southend statto
First Team Star

Aug 18, 2016, 1:06 PM

Posts: 1923
Location: East Anglia (South Division)
Team(s): most of my local sides

Post #33 of 66 (4653 views)
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Re: [jonw] Essex Thames-side Challenge Trophy [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

how can I tell you this - the friend who went wrote down a different penalty score - however, as you kindly gave me the date of the final, I will check the local newspapers and let all know.


southend statto
First Team Star

Aug 20, 2016, 7:55 AM

Posts: 1923
Location: East Anglia (South Division)
Team(s): most of my local sides

Post #34 of 66 (4441 views)
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Re: [jonw] Essex Thames-side Challenge Trophy [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Sorry Jon, but Billericay won 3-2, not 3-1 but thank you for checking.

Penalty shootout:

Billericay: Munday, McDonald, West [hit bar], Taylor;

Ford: Spittle [saved], Evans, Sewell [saved], Parrish, Brock [saved]


jonw
Youth Team Regular


Sep 21, 2016, 8:51 AM

Posts: 241
Location: Braintree
Team(s): Braintree Town

Post #35 of 66 (3650 views)
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Re: [southend statto] Essex Thames-side Challenge Trophy [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Thanks. I'll amend my records accordingly.
I'm a bit concerned that I was having difficulty keeping count in a penalty shoot out that long ago. Nowadays I could understand it!


Ronald Price
Youth Team Star


Feb 23, 2017, 9:40 AM

Posts: 373
Location: Lincoln
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Post #36 of 66 (3047 views)
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Re: [southend statto] Essex Thames-side Challenge Trophy [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Can't remember the source, possibly the Dagenham Post, but I recall the trophy used for the Essex Elizabethan was that used for Dagenham 'summer' competitions in 1951 and 1953



Ron Price


Ronald Price
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Feb 23, 2017, 9:52 AM

Posts: 373
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Post #37 of 66 (3046 views)
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Re: [southend statto] Essex Thames-side Challenge Trophy [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The Thamesside history(began 45-46) is in one of the early NLDs. There was a similar Essex competition played between the wars.

The Elizabethan began as 'supplementary' competition as only eight clubs were originally allowed in the Thamesside. The latter had a wonderful galleon trophy which I believe is also pictured in the NLD article.

It is definitely not a renaming of the Grays and Tilbury Cup



Ron Price


Dingo
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May 15, 2019, 12:17 PM

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Post #38 of 66 (752 views)
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Re: [southend statto] Essex Thames-side Challenge Trophy [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

This seems like the right place to ask this question.

Can someone fill in the gaps for these ETT finals?:

53-54 Walthamstow Ave bt ??? (final carried over)
63-64 Dagenham bt ???
69-70 Dagenham bt ???
74-75 Dagenham bt ???

Thanks


southend statto
First Team Star

May 15, 2019, 1:26 PM

Posts: 1923
Location: East Anglia (South Division)
Team(s): most of my local sides

Post #39 of 66 (726 views)
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Re: [Dingo] Essex Thames-side Challenge Trophy [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I'll reply this evening with the results


Dingo
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May 15, 2019, 1:41 PM

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Post #40 of 66 (717 views)
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Re: [southend statto] Essex Thames-side Challenge Trophy [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Thanks


southend statto
First Team Star

May 15, 2019, 7:06 PM

Posts: 1923
Location: East Anglia (South Division)
Team(s): most of my local sides

Post #41 of 66 (677 views)
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Re: [Dingo] Essex Thames-side Challenge Trophy [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

53-54 Walthamstow Ave bt Leytonstone 5-2
63-64 Dagenham bt Leyton 1-0
69-70 Ilford bt Dagenham 3-2
74-75 Dagenham bt Leytonstone 1-0


southend statto
First Team Star

May 15, 2019, 7:10 PM

Posts: 1923
Location: East Anglia (South Division)
Team(s): most of my local sides

Post #42 of 66 (673 views)
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Re: [Dingo] Essex Thames-side Challenge Trophy [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

If anyone is interested, my latest book 5 please message me contains all of Southend United's results in defunct cup competitions, all ETT Final results - along with full results for a number of south east Essex sides, a full list of Eastern Prof Floodlight League Champions and League Cup Final results. It also includes a potted history of Leytonstone FC along with numerous LFC photos.


Dingo
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May 15, 2019, 8:29 PM

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Post #43 of 66 (647 views)
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Re: [southend statto] Essex Thames-side Challenge Trophy [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Thanks very much.

Its a shame this competition came to such an inglorious end.

There seems plenty of room for it now,but I guess there's not the will or desire.


New Forest
Junior Team Star


May 17, 2019, 11:03 AM

Posts: 101
Location: Aldershot
Team(s): Leyton then Waltham Forest now Walthamstow

Post #44 of 66 (536 views)
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Re: [Ronald Price] Essex Thames-side Challenge Trophy [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
The Thamesside history(began 45-46) is in one of the early NLDs. There was a similar Essex competition played between the wars.

The Elizabethan began as 'supplementary' competition as only eight clubs were originally allowed in the Thamesside. The latter had a wonderful galleon trophy which I believe is also pictured in the NLD article.

It is definitely not a renaming of the Grays and Tilbury Cup


My information is that the Grays & Tilbury Hospital Cup was renamed Essex Thameside Trophy for the 1945/6 season.

In Reply To


Ronald Price
Youth Team Star


May 18, 2019, 10:36 AM

Posts: 373
Location: Lincoln
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Post #45 of 66 (446 views)
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Re: [New Forest] Essex Thames-side Challenge Trophy [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The history is in the 1982-83 NLD and states that the galleon trophy (valued at 2000) was donated by Mr G Latilla president of Walthamstow Avenue; for its second season.

The between the wars competition was the South Essex Charity Cup and like the Thameside (initially) limited to eight clubs. The Thamesside clubs were Barking,Clapton. Grays Athletic,Ilford, Leyton, Leytonstone, Romford and Walthamstow Avenue. Dagenham became the first new entrant in 1959 replacing Romford who turned professional.

I believe the Grays & Ilbury Hospital Cup continuedto at least 1951 replacing Hospital with Charity following the intro of the NHS.



Ron Price


Dingo
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May 18, 2019, 11:49 AM

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Post #46 of 66 (432 views)
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Re: [Ronald Price] Essex Thames-side Challenge Trophy [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
The between the wars competition was the South Essex Charity Cup and like the Thameside (initially) limited to eight clubs.
I believe the Grays & Tilbury Hospital Cup continued to at least 1951 replacing Hospital with Charity following the intro of the NHS.


Oh,I understand better now,thanks Ronald.

Reading this thread,I had thought that the ''between the wars competition'' was the ''Grays & Tilbury Hospital Cup''.
I didn't realise that there was another competition called the ''South Essex Charity Cup''.
Using the Barking archive it seems to show that it was more of an ''East London Charity Cup'' really,but nevermind.

Thanks for clearing that up (for me anyway !)


(This post was edited by Dingo on May 18, 2019, 11:55 AM)


New Forest
Junior Team Star


May 20, 2019, 12:23 PM

Posts: 101
Location: Aldershot
Team(s): Leyton then Waltham Forest now Walthamstow

Post #47 of 66 (310 views)
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Re: [Dingo] Essex Thames-side Challenge Trophy [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

There still appears to be some confusion over the Essex Thameside Trophy. The fixture lists were littered with various cup competitions for Essex based clubs.

West Ham Charity Cup - started in 1887 and ended in 1931 - details on Wikipedia. The last match was between Leyton Reserves & Clapton Reserves for the 1930/1 final (payed on 3rd October 1931). Leyton (First XI) did reach the final the previous September by beating Leytonstone, but the final was held-over until the next season and completed by their reserve sides. Which is probably why the competition came to an end.


South Essex Charity Cup - was operating at least from 1931/2 when Romford were in the final. It appears to have ended in 1938/9. Leyton played Clapton on 1st September 1938 and drew. The replay was set for 17th April 1939, I don't have the result. The winners I believe would have played Walthamstow Avenue in the final, but with the outbreak of war, and had the final been held-over, it probably was never played. It did not operate during the war.

There was a Tilbury Challenge Cup in 1930/1 - won by Romford.

Then the Grays & Tilbury Challenge Cup when again Romford won on 1933/4. Not sure about the 1938/9 final, but I do have the remaining winners:

1939/40 Leytonstone 3 Leyton 2
1940/1 No matches
1941/2 Leyton 1 Walthamstow Avenue 1 awarded jointly
1942/3 Walthamstow Avenue 3 Leyton 1
1943/4 Walthamstow Avenue winners
1944/5 Walthamstow Avenue winners

Then I believe it became the Essex Thamside Trophy.

Further research by anyone appreciated.


Dingo
Junior Team Regular

May 20, 2019, 1:58 PM

Posts: 45
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Post #48 of 66 (278 views)
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Re: [New Forest] Essex Thames-side Challenge Trophy [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
South Essex Charity Cup - was operating at least from 1931/2 when Romford were in the final. It appears to have ended in 1938/9. Leyton played Clapton on 1st September 1938 and drew. The replay was set for 17th April 1939, I don't have the result. The winners I believe would have played Walthamstow Avenue in the final, but with the outbreak of war, and had the final been held-over, it probably was never played. It did not operate during the war.


Going by what Ron said earlier ''The South Essex Charity Cup (was).limited to eight clubs'' and looking at the Barking history,the eight clubs were:
Barking,Clapton,Romford,Dagenham,Leytonstone,Walthamstow Ave,Ilford and one other.
Leyton would be the obvious one missing,and you say that they played in the 38/39 version.
So that looks like the eight.

With regards to that 38/39 version,I noted yesterday or the day before from an Ilford programme,that the South Essex Charity Cup was listed as ''winners'' for 38/39.
So you might be a little bit out there (or the programme honours could be wrong of course).


New Forest
Junior Team Star


May 20, 2019, 3:59 PM

Posts: 101
Location: Aldershot
Team(s): Leyton then Waltham Forest now Walthamstow

Post #49 of 66 (241 views)
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Re: [Dingo] Essex Thames-side Challenge Trophy [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The 1938/9 South Essex Charity Cup seems a bit of a mystery. I have both Leyton and Walthamstow Avenue programmes from April 1939. Leyton as I said were due to play Clapton in their replay. Whereas Walthamstow Avenue had beaten Barking, but no further results or fixtures mentioned. An Ilford programme for the 1945/6 season omits winning the South Essex Charity Cup in 1938/9. Then in another Ilford programme for 1948/9 they now do claim it I have handbooks for Leyton, Clapton and Walthamstow Avenue and none of them list themselves as 'winners or finalists'. So who could have played Ilford in the final?

In the course of fiddling around I have found that in the 1944/5 Grays & Tilbury Charity Cup Final Walthamstow Avenue beat Grays Athletic by 3 - 1.


Dingo
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May 20, 2019, 4:59 PM

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Post #50 of 66 (220 views)
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Re: [New Forest] Essex Thames-side Challenge Trophy [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
So who could have played Ilford in the final?


I'm guessing Dagenham,Leytonstone or Romford ?

Because they all played in previous season's.

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