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Home: Non-League Football Discussion: Restructuring Discussion:
League names

 



kivo
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Apr 21, 2019, 8:27 PM

Posts: 1202
Location: Kiveton Park, Sheffield
Team(s): Kiveton Park, Sheffield Wednesday

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League names Can't Post or Reply Privately

Not necessarily 'restructuring', but will be affected by the planned changes to the pyramid in forthcoming years.
Will the names of the divisions at Steps 3 and 4 will be amended from the shambles as we see it now?

It's very confusing for a seasoned non-league fan, so no idea how on earth a non-non-leaguer would make sense of the different divisions.

In a few years we'll have a 4-8 set-up at Steps 3 & 4.

The logical solution would be to have four separate leagues each having one Step 3 division and two Step 4 divisions.

However, it's more likely that we'll see the Southern League running two Step 3 divisions and two Step 4 divisions, the Isthmian League running one Step 3 division and three Step 4 divisions, the Northern Premier League running one Step 3 division and two Step 4 divisions and the Northern League running one Step 4 division.

The creation of a new organisation (the much-vaunted Central League?) to run one Step 3 and two Step 4's would solve all of this, but doesn't seem likely when current leagues fancy more power.

Then there are the individual division names - all the Step 3 divisions should be named the Premier Division and the Step 4 divisions Division One (followed by the geographic term).

Instead, we currently haveEvostik Premier
Evostik East
Evostik West
Evostik South Premier
Evostik South East
Evostik South West
Bostik Premier
Bostik East
Bostik South Central
Bostik South East

Good luck at guessing which of the above are at Step 3 or Step 4 if you're not in the know.



(This post was edited by kivo on Apr 21, 2019, 10:26 PM)


Richard Rundle
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Apr 21, 2019, 9:24 PM

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Then there are the individual division names - all the Step 5 divisions should be named the Premier Division and the Step 6 divisions Division One


Or even better Division One and Division Two.


ladderman
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Apr 21, 2019, 10:02 PM

Posts: 7419
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Post #3 of 25 (7669 views)
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Not necessarily 'restructuring', but will be affected by the planned changes to the pyramid in forthcoming years.
Will the names of the divisions at Steps 3 and 4 will be amended from the shambles as we see it now?

It's very confusing for a seasoned non-league fan, so no idea how on earth a non-non-leaguer would make sense of the different divisions.

In a few years we'll have a 4-8 set-up at Steps 3 & 4.

The logical solution would be to have four separate leagues each having one Step 5 division and two Step 6 divisions.

However, it's more likely that we'll see the Southern League running two Step 5 divisions and two Step 6 divisions, the Isthmian League running one Step 5 division and three Step 6 divisions, the Northern Premier League running one Step 5 division and two Step 6 divisions and the Northern League running one Step 6 division.
The creation of a new organisation (the much-vaunted Central League?) to run one Step 5 and two Step 6's would solve all of this, but doesn't seem likely when current leagues fancy more power.

Then there are the individual division names - all the Step 5 divisions should be named the Premier Division and the Step 6 divisions Division One (followed by the geographic term).
Instead, we currently haveEvostik Premier
Evostik East
Evostik West
Evostik South Premier
Evostik South East
Evostik South West
Bostik Premier
Bostik East
Bostik South Central
Bostik South East

Good luck at guessing which of the above are at Step 3 or Step 4 if you're not in the know.

You're clearly struggling to differeniciate between steps 3,4,5 and 6.


(This post was edited by ladderman on Apr 21, 2019, 10:03 PM)


kivo
First Team Regular


Apr 21, 2019, 10:25 PM

Posts: 1202
Location: Kiveton Park, Sheffield
Team(s): Kiveton Park, Sheffield Wednesday

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In Reply To
Then there are the individual division names - all the Step 5 divisions should be named the Premier Division and the Step 6 divisions Division One


Or even better Division One and Division Two.

Indeed


Terrierdave
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Apr 23, 2019, 9:04 AM

Posts: 363
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Post #5 of 25 (6824 views)
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However, it's more likely that we'll see the Southern League running two Step 3 divisions and two Step 4 divisions, the Isthmian League running one Step 3 division and three Step 4 divisions, the Northern Premier League running one Step 3 division and two Step 4 divisions and the Northern League running one Step 4 division.


Other than the fact they have applied to run the division, what else makes you think that they will actual win? Personally, I would be amazed if the NPL don't get it, as anything else would be completely out of step (pun not intended).


Richard Rundle
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Apr 23, 2019, 7:10 PM

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In Reply To
However, it's more likely that we'll see the Southern League running two Step 3 divisions and two Step 4 divisions, the Isthmian League running one Step 3 division and three Step 4 divisions, the Northern Premier League running one Step 3 division and two Step 4 divisions and the Northern League running one Step 4 division.


Other than the fact they have applied to run the division, what else makes you think that they will actual win? Personally, I would be amazed if the NPL don't get it, as anything else would be completely out of step (pun not intended).


The Northern League have just tweeted (https://twitter.com/theofficialnl/status/1120750545818521606) that they have been unsuccessful in their application to run the new Step 4 Division.


dcuk
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Apr 23, 2019, 7:18 PM

Posts: 66
Location: Tonbridge
Team(s): Tonbridge Angels, Norwich City

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From the NL statement:


Quote
We believe the decision will have far-reaching consequences for non-league football in the region.


This is surely nonsense, the new Step 4 division will cover the same geographical area regardless of who administers it!


(This post was edited by dcuk on Apr 23, 2019, 7:43 PM)


Richard Rundle
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Apr 23, 2019, 7:36 PM

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Quote
We believe the decision will have far-reaching consequences for non-league football in the region.


This is surely nonsense, the new Step 4 division will cover the same geographical area regardless of who administers it!


For the avoidance of doubt, the above is not quoting me, but a part of the Northern League statement.


dcuk
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Apr 23, 2019, 7:44 PM

Posts: 66
Location: Tonbridge
Team(s): Tonbridge Angels, Norwich City

Post #9 of 25 (6252 views)
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In Reply To

Quote
We believe the decision will have far-reaching consequences for non-league football in the region.


This is surely nonsense, the new Step 4 division will cover the same geographical area regardless of who administers it!


For the avoidance of doubt, the above is not quoting me, but a part of the Northern League statement.


Thanks Richard, I've edited :)


hawkwind
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Apr 24, 2019, 1:48 AM

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Post #10 of 25 (5910 views)
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Re: [kivo] League names [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Not necessarily 'restructuring', but will be affected by the planned changes to the pyramid in forthcoming years.
Will the names of the divisions at Steps 3 and 4 will be amended from the shambles as we see it now?

It's very confusing for a seasoned non-league fan, so no idea how on earth a non-non-leaguer would make sense of the different divisions.

In a few years we'll have a 4-8 set-up at Steps 3 & 4.

The logical solution would be to have four separate leagues each having one Step 3 division and two Step 4 divisions.

However, it's more likely that we'll see the Southern League running two Step 3 divisions and two Step 4 divisions, the Isthmian League running one Step 3 division and three Step 4 divisions, the Northern Premier League running one Step 3 division and two Step 4 divisions and the Northern League running one Step 4 division.

The creation of a new organisation (the much-vaunted Central League?) to run one Step 3 and two Step 4's would solve all of this, but doesn't seem likely when current leagues fancy more power.

Then there are the individual division names - all the Step 3 divisions should be named the Premier Division and the Step 4 divisions Division One (followed by the geographic term).

Instead, we currently haveEvostik Premier
Evostik East
Evostik West
Evostik South Premier
Evostik South East
Evostik South West
Bostik Premier
Bostik East
Bostik South Central
Bostik South East

Good luck at guessing which of the above are at Step 3 or Step 4 if you're not in the know.


I know it's confusing and I agree a number of league divisions could be better named in line with your suggestion but perhaps the current situation isn't quite as bad as you implied.

The Southern League has two divisions at both Steps 3 and 4 and their names of Premier Central, Premier South, One Central and One South seem ok to me.

The Isthmian League I would rename the three Step Four leagues from North, South East and South Central to One North, One South and One West respectively which is both simpler and fits better the locations of the clubs.

The Northern Premier League again at Step 4 add "One" to each division name. (Perhaps in the near future we'll see a NPL1N, NPL1W and NPL1E?)

The above is pragmatic least change but I agree with posters who would prefer divisions to be named One and Two rather than Premier and One.


chienmort
First Team Sub


Apr 30, 2019, 11:10 AM

Posts: 1088
Location: Poole
Team(s): Poole Town FC, Queens Park RANGERS.

Post #11 of 25 (4927 views)
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Re: [hawkwind] League names [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Not necessarily 'restructuring', but will be affected by the planned changes to the pyramid in forthcoming years.
Will the names of the divisions at Steps 3 and 4 will be amended from the shambles as we see it now?

It's very confusing for a seasoned non-league fan, so no idea how on earth a non-non-leaguer would make sense of the different divisions.

In a few years we'll have a 4-8 set-up at Steps 3 & 4.

The logical solution would be to have four separate leagues each having one Step 3 division and two Step 4 divisions.

However, it's more likely that we'll see the Southern League running two Step 3 divisions and two Step 4 divisions, the Isthmian League running one Step 3 division and three Step 4 divisions, the Northern Premier League running one Step 3 division and two Step 4 divisions and the Northern League running one Step 4 division.

The creation of a new organisation (the much-vaunted Central League?) to run one Step 3 and two Step 4's would solve all of this, but doesn't seem likely when current leagues fancy more power.

Then there are the individual division names - all the Step 3 divisions should be named the Premier Division and the Step 4 divisions Division One (followed by the geographic term).

Instead, we currently haveEvostik Premier
Evostik East
Evostik West
Evostik South Premier
Evostik South East
Evostik South West
Bostik Premier
Bostik East
Bostik South Central
Bostik South East

Good luck at guessing which of the above are at Step 3 or Step 4 if you're not in the know.


I know it's confusing and I agree a number of league divisions could be better named in line with your suggestion but perhaps the current situation isn't quite as bad as you implied.

The Southern League has two divisions at both Steps 3 and 4 and their names of Premier Central, Premier South, One Central and One South seem ok to me.

The Isthmian League I would rename the three Step Four leagues from North, South East and South Central to One North, One South and One West respectively which is both simpler and fits better the locations of the clubs.

The Northern Premier League again at Step 4 add "One" to each division name. (Perhaps in the near future we'll see a NPL1N, NPL1W and NPL1E?)

The above is pragmatic least change but I agree with posters who would prefer divisions to be named One and Two rather than Premier and One.

It might also help if the NPL and Southern were not required to Evostik in their names.



Poole Town FC - les couilles du chien


derekn
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Apr 30, 2019, 6:16 PM

Posts: 2233
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Just ignore sponsors names, they're Isthmian, Southern and Northern Premier.


shimtoan
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May 1, 2019, 2:58 AM

Posts: 1354
Location: Dunkirk, Nottingham
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Post #13 of 25 (4061 views)
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Just ignore sponsors names, they're Isthmian, Southern and Northern Premier.

hear hear



unless stated, all views are my own and are not the views of any other person, club, or organisation


Part-Timer
Chelsea Transfer Target

May 1, 2019, 10:56 AM

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Location: Huntingdonshire
Team(s): Brentford, Bradford City, Peterborough United, Yaxley

Post #14 of 25 (3750 views)
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Just ignore sponsors names, they're Isthmian, Southern and Northern Premier.

hear hear

Sponsors plough thousands of pounds into these leagues. Ignoring the names is rather churlish. They deserve all the name recognition they can get.


derekn
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May 1, 2019, 11:02 AM

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Then call them Bostik Isthmian, Evostik Southern and Evostik Northern Premier.


cope1
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May 1, 2019, 7:21 PM

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It depends what you're using it for. The press should absolutely use the sponsored name and it should be used in any kind of formal context as it serves to promote the sponsor and make the league more attractive as a sponsorship proposition which results in more money for the league and it's clubs. However, I personally stick to 'real' names in my geeky spreadsheets, etc, because I prefer the continuity and I've got no reason to care about sponsorship.


cope1
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May 1, 2019, 7:30 PM

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Round my way we have the Ryman League. Nobody's heard of the Isthmian League and if you mention the Bostik League you have to explain that it was what used to be called the Ryman League. That opens up a whole new can of worms as, with furrowed brows, people ask if the Ryman League has folded or been taken over. At this point you'd be wise to just stop explaining but if you try to explain that Ryman was only the sponsored name and that now the sponsor is Bostik people will start finishing their pints and putting on their coats.

To be honest, anyone left after that is probably worth avoiding. It might seem frustrating when people don't understand these things, but one pint with anyone who does is usually enough to have you wishing you'd kept your mouth shut.


kivo
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May 1, 2019, 7:51 PM

Posts: 1202
Location: Kiveton Park, Sheffield
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S1 Conference National
S2 Conference North-----Conference South
S3 Northern League 1-----Midland League 1-----South-Western League 1-----South-Eastern League 1
S4 Northern League 2 (x2)-----Midland League 2 (x2)-----South-Western League 2 (x2)-----South-Eastern League 2 (x2)

It's as simple as that, but been made so confusing.

We have a Southern League, a Midland League and a Northern League, but one is at Steps 3&4 while the others are at Steps 5&6.

One Step 3&4 league is named after something to do with ancient Greece...

Two separate Step 3&4 leagues have the same sponsor name.

Trying to get people into non-league football is such a chore because folk haven't got a clue what level of football their local team is at.


(This post was edited by kivo on May 1, 2019, 7:55 PM)


shimtoan
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May 1, 2019, 9:00 PM

Posts: 1354
Location: Dunkirk, Nottingham
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Post #19 of 25 (3286 views)
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S1 Conference National
S2 Conference North-----Conference South
S3 Northern League 1-----Midland League 1-----South-Western League 1-----South-Eastern League 1
S4 Northern League 2 (x2)-----Midland League 2 (x2)-----South-Western League 2 (x2)-----South-Eastern League 2 (x2)

It's as simple as that, but been made so confusing.

We have a Southern League, a Midland League and a Northern League, but one is at Steps 3&4 while the others are at Steps 5&6.

One Step 3&4 league is named after something to do with ancient Greece...

Two separate Step 3&4 leagues have the same sponsor name.

Trying to get people into non-league football is such a chore because folk haven't got a clue what level of football their local team is at.

The women's system is more logical namewise



unless stated, all views are my own and are not the views of any other person, club, or organisation


Reborn Yellow
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May 1, 2019, 9:10 PM

Posts: 217
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Further down we have more Greek names including one coupled with a dubious geographical location. We have united and combined counties. ‘Northern’ leagues that stretch into the Midlands. A pair of West Yorkshire leagues and of course, the Central Midlands, which is sort of north-east Midlands and southern Yorkshire. Not forgetting all the First Divisions which aren't


Dingo
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May 1, 2019, 9:19 PM

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This is my stab at this game (for 20/21)

I understand the views of previous poster’s,but this is my attempt at a realistic solution (ie the Southern League are very unlikely to give up one of their two step 3 divisions) and an amalgamation of my favourite opinions so far:

S1 x1-------------------------------------------National League
S2 x2-------------National (North)----------------------------------National (South)
S3 x4 Northern Premier-Southern Premier Midlands-Southern Premier South West-Isthmian Premier
S4 x8 Northern 1(n/e),1(n/w),1(east)-Southern 1(central),1(south)-Isthmian 1(north),1(s/e),1(west)

It is so annoying that the Southern League has the word ‘’Southern’’ in the title,makes it a tough one to get around.

Personally I think its important for the eight divisions at step 4 to have different geographic names,so:
North,North East,East,South East,South,South West(already used at step 3),West,North West and Central


(This post was edited by Dingo on May 1, 2019, 9:27 PM)


cope1
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May 2, 2019, 7:59 PM

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I agree on the issue of having all eight step 4 leagues named uniquely. Not sure if it's possible, but it would be good to remove them from the various empires and have them represented as part of the while.0


knmeynell
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May 2, 2019, 8:01 PM

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Post #23 of 25 (2481 views)
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One Step 3&4 league is named after something to do with ancient Greece...


One Step 5 league is also named after the modern version of said country, whilst another is named after a long defunct Anglo-Saxon kingdom.


shimtoan
First Team Regular


May 2, 2019, 9:16 PM

Posts: 1354
Location: Dunkirk, Nottingham
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In Reply To
One Step 3&4 league is named after something to do with ancient Greece...


One Step 5 league is also named after the modern version of said country, whilst another is named after a long defunct Anglo-Saxon kingdom.

3 at Step 5 give you no clue as to where they could be geographically, and another is innaccurate with it's geographical name



unless stated, all views are my own and are not the views of any other person, club, or organisation


Oxford Stone
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May 16, 2019, 1:40 PM

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Post #25 of 25 (1168 views)
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Round my way we have the Ryman League. Nobody's heard of the Isthmian League and if you mention the Bostik League you have to explain that it was what used to be called the Ryman League. That opens up a whole new can of worms as, with furrowed brows, people ask if the Ryman League has folded or been taken over. At this point you'd be wise to just stop explaining but if you try to explain that Ryman was only the sponsored name and that now the sponsor is Bostik people will start finishing their pints and putting on their coats.

To be honest, anyone left after that is probably worth avoiding. It might seem frustrating when people don't understand these things, but one pint with anyone who does is usually enough to have you wishing you'd kept your mouth shut.


I remember in the programme for a season-opener in the mid 90s in the SWL (Okehampton v Wadebridge), one player's profile mentioned reverentially that he had Diadora experience. The nearest mid Devon has ever had to Pele turning up.

 
 


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