Non League Matters - The Continuation of Tonys english Football Site 



  Main Index MAIN
INDEX
Search Posts SEARCH
POSTS
Who's Online WHO'S
ONLINE
Log in LOG
IN

Home: Non-League Football Discussion: Other British Isles Football:
Colwyn Bay & the Welsh Pyramid

 

First page Previous page 1 2 Next page Last page  View All


Counting Crows
Youth Team Star


Mar 8, 2019, 1:53 PM

Posts: 281
Location: Caerdydd
Team(s): Cwmbrn Town

Post #26 of 45 (4141 views)
Shortcut
Re: [gcnc] Colwyn Bay & the Welsh Pyramid [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The T2 licence is quite stringent and includes the financial aspect, not just having seats/lights etc.

It's quite likely that they'd fail in any attempt to acquire a T2 licence, assuming they haven't already missed the application deadline.

Tier 3 would be a sensible place to start, and as someone earlier mentioned, there is a vacancy there. Plus I believe their reserve side plays in the Welsh Alliance Reserve Division so they've have a pool of players that could step in?



www.cwmbrantownafc.co.uk
https://twitter.com/#!/CwmbranTown


Unicorn
Chelsea Transfer Target

Mar 9, 2019, 8:03 AM

Posts: 3755
Location: Canterbury
Team(s): Arsenal and South Eastern Football

Post #27 of 45 (3870 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Counting Crows] Colwyn Bay & the Welsh Pyramid [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

It was the desire of the Welsh governance back in 1992 ( approx) to get all welsh teams playing in their own country.
I assume that position has not changed. So i would think that the move of Colwyn Bay into the Welsh system will be made as smooth as humanly possible and even if they have missed a few deadlines ways will be found to ignore them.


gcnc
Man City Transfer Target!

Mar 9, 2019, 10:13 AM

Posts: 11002
Location: Pontypool
Team(s): Newport County

Post #28 of 45 (3807 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Unicorn] Colwyn Bay & the Welsh Pyramid [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I think Counting Crows' analysis is correct. I expect them to be offered a place at Tier 3 or, if not, definitely Tier 4. They have missed the deadline for Tier 2 applications, and I don't get the impression they are that concerned about starting high up anyway.


Unicorn
Chelsea Transfer Target

Mar 9, 2019, 11:15 AM

Posts: 3755
Location: Canterbury
Team(s): Arsenal and South Eastern Football

Post #29 of 45 (3781 views)
Shortcut
Re: [gcnc] Colwyn Bay & the Welsh Pyramid [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I think Counting Crows' analysis is correct. I expect them to be offered a place at Tier 3 or, if not, definitely Tier 4. They have missed the deadline for Tier 2 applications, and I don't get the impression they are that concerned about starting high up anyway.


Not quite what you said in post number 3.
Are saying this simply because you now feel that the club do not want to start higher than Tier 3.


gcnc
Man City Transfer Target!

Mar 9, 2019, 12:32 PM

Posts: 11002
Location: Pontypool
Team(s): Newport County

Post #30 of 45 (3744 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Unicorn] Colwyn Bay & the Welsh Pyramid [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
I think Counting Crows' analysis is correct. I expect them to be offered a place at Tier 3 or, if not, definitely Tier 4. They have missed the deadline for Tier 2 applications, and I don't get the impression they are that concerned about starting high up anyway.


Not quite what you said in post number 3.
Are saying this simply because you now feel that the club do not want to start higher than Tier 3.


What I said in post number 3 was that the FAW should offer them a place in Tier 2, particularly if that would encourage them to make the switch. What I think the FAW should do and what I expect them to actually do are usually different as seasoned observers of the FAW, and readers of my post on such subjects, will testify Wink

But yes, the mood music from Colwyn Bay does now seem to be that they might be better off finding their feet at a lower level.


Bantam Cymraeg
Chelsea Transfer Target


Mar 9, 2019, 12:56 PM

Posts: 4285
Location: Flintshire
Team(s): Bradford City

Post #31 of 45 (3723 views)
Shortcut
Re: [gcnc] Colwyn Bay & the Welsh Pyramid [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I think that there would be a huge outcry from clubs if they were placed higher than Tier 3, primarily because of the new licensing rules brought in for next season that clubs have been working towards (and for which CB have missed the application deadline). They've had a few poor seasons recently, including 2 relegations, so starting at Tier 3 with plenty of local derbies, and a league that they could well go and win, would be an ideal level for them to start. They can then have a look around and see what needs to be done for a Tier 2 licence for the following season without having to rush it through in a couple of months. Crowds would certainly increase to see a successful team playing local opposition.


wishmaster3211
First Team Star


Mar 9, 2019, 12:58 PM

Posts: 2481
Location: A small town in Monmouthshire
Team(s): Calne Town, Darlington, Rosenborg, Sussex CCC, Huddersfield RL

Post #32 of 45 (3722 views)
Shortcut
Re: [gcnc] Colwyn Bay & the Welsh Pyramid [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

An interesting thread. I've been following this on social media and I believe some of it doesn't add up, as a few posts above say. Straight away if you looked at costs a lot of it was players wages which as usual were way too high so as a first pass you'd cut your cloth. If they get back into WPL they'll have to pay the same to compete. Also there were some disgruntled fans talking about the vote being based on shareholding not just numbers.

I think a lot of people underestimate the strength not Welsh Football too, most Divisions suffer a gap between top and bottom and it does well to look how WPL sides have done in the Scottish version of Checkatrade. Also consider that successful WPL sides are recruiting from Steps 2/3 (sometimes higher) lastly, where I live quite a lot of "International" moves occur between Southern League sides and Welsh 1. Playing wise, I've seen first team friendlies involving Monmouth where they are a class above local step 5 opposition. Finance wise, it may be a different matter with crowds often struggling to make three figures in Welsh D1. Also I guess North Wales is stronger than South on balance.

It will be interesting to see how this pans out, hopefully for the best for Colwyn Bay. Its a big gain for Welsh Football for sure, but of course that does depend on how the WFA allocates them within the pyramid and not disadvantaging other sides.



"Run For the Hills Before They Burn"

Checkout my Facebook page "Proper Football Grounds"

facebook.com/paul.fergusson


Gladstone
Youth Team Star

Mar 9, 2019, 9:23 PM

Posts: 268
Location:
Team(s):

Post #33 of 45 (3605 views)
Shortcut
Re: [wishmaster3211] Colwyn Bay & the Welsh Pyramid [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
An interesting thread. I've been following this on social media and I believe some of it doesn't add up, as a few posts above say. Straight away if you looked at costs a lot of it was players wages which as usual were way too high so as a first pass you'd cut your cloth. If they get back into WPL they'll have to pay the same to compete. Also there were some disgruntled fans talking about the vote being based on shareholding not just numbers.

I think a lot of people underestimate the strength not Welsh Football too, most Divisions suffer a gap between top and bottom and it does well to look how WPL sides have done in the Scottish version of Checkatrade. Also consider that successful WPL sides are recruiting from Steps 2/3 (sometimes higher) lastly, where I live quite a lot of "International" moves occur between Southern League sides and Welsh 1. Playing wise, I've seen first team friendlies involving Monmouth where they are a class above local step 5 opposition. Finance wise, it may be a different matter with crowds often struggling to make three figures in Welsh D1. Also I guess North Wales is stronger than South on balance.

It will be interesting to see how this pans out, hopefully for the best for Colwyn Bay. Its a big gain for Welsh Football for sure, but of course that does depend on how the WFA allocates them within the pyramid and not disadvantaging other sides.


I find this an interesting thread too. If as appears the main issue with Colwyn Bay is finance, then checking this aspect ought to be high on the list when considering any licence for T2: I think (correct me if wrong)none is needed for T3.

The Scottish equivalent of the English Checkatrade is the Irn Bru Cup, in which English clubs competed for the first time this year: notably Sutton United and Boreham Wood, being the top two Conference sides who did not get promoted to the Football League. They made very little impression on it, whereas the performance of both TNS and Connah's Quay Nomads has been massive. CQN are actually in danger of winning it, though Ross County will surely be odds-on favourites. And in the English pyramid Colwyn Bay and Sutton United are about as far apart as are Ebbsfleet and Arsenal.

Crowds I concede: WPL scarcely ever make four figures, though in the English National league they are the norm. But playing standards are another matter. Would HJK Helsinki have come away 1-0 down on the first leg from Boreham Wood as they did from CQN in 2017? I don't think so: even though Boreham Wood, would be having well over ten times CQN's gate (472).



Gladstone

(This post was edited by Gladstone on Mar 9, 2019, 10:13 PM)


cybihood
Junior Team Sub

Mar 10, 2019, 8:51 AM

Posts: 17
Location:
Team(s):

Post #34 of 45 (3482 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Gladstone] Colwyn Bay & the Welsh Pyramid [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The Colwyn Bay finances look odd on both sides. Approx 150k costs and 50k revenue. Always hard to find full accounts at this level but Aberystwyth in WP do and they breakeven with costs of 300,000 a year and they are only mid-table. So if Colwyn aspire to get there they will struggle and will need more funding than in England although once in WP potential rewards are much higher.
In Tier 2 in Wales there are some teams such as Bangor spending not far off what bottom WP clubs spend but others with much lower costs than Colwyn Bay now. So they should be competitive in Tier 3 and most probably bottom half of Tier 2.

They may gain more fans from local derbies but maybe from away fans as the club didn't have many home fans in Conference North. On flip side, if some fans want to stay in England these may stop watching.

Ultimately a difficult one and shows how difficult football finance is without a wealthy backer.


gcnc
Man City Transfer Target!

Mar 10, 2019, 7:56 PM

Posts: 11002
Location: Pontypool
Team(s): Newport County

Post #35 of 45 (3285 views)
Shortcut
Re: [cybihood] Colwyn Bay & the Welsh Pyramid [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

It's being reported that after discussions with the FAW, Colwyn Bay will be at least at Tier 3, and possibly Tier 2. The FAW's decision will be announced on March 29th - the most important thing happening on that day Wink

https://clwbpeldroed.org/...n-bay-wales-england/


(This post was edited by gcnc on Mar 10, 2019, 7:57 PM)


wishmaster3211
First Team Star


Mar 11, 2019, 4:24 PM

Posts: 2481
Location: A small town in Monmouthshire
Team(s): Calne Town, Darlington, Rosenborg, Sussex CCC, Huddersfield RL

Post #36 of 45 (3035 views)
Shortcut
Re: [gcnc] Colwyn Bay & the Welsh Pyramid [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
It's being reported that after discussions with the FAW, Colwyn Bay will be at least at Tier 3, and possibly Tier 2. The FAW's decision will be announced on March 29th - the most important thing happening on that day Wink

https://clwbpeldroed.org/...n-bay-wales-england/


For what it's worth I feel it should be 3 and no higher. As others say, would they even pass financial tests for 2?



"Run For the Hills Before They Burn"

Checkout my Facebook page "Proper Football Grounds"

facebook.com/paul.fergusson


oftenscore6
Chelsea Transfer Target

Mar 14, 2019, 2:09 PM

Posts: 5112
Location: Saddleworth
Team(s): FCUM, MUFC, Hammarby, St Pauli, Hawthorn (AFL)

Post #37 of 45 (2652 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Bantam Cymraeg] Colwyn Bay & the Welsh Pyramid [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I think that there would be a huge outcry from clubs if they were placed higher than Tier 3, primarily because of the new licensing rules brought in for next season that clubs have been working towards (and for which CB have missed the application deadline). They've had a few poor seasons recently, including 2 relegations, so starting at Tier 3 with plenty of local derbies, and a league that they could well go and win, would be an ideal level for them to start. They can then have a look around and see what needs to be done for a Tier 2 licence for the following season without having to rush it through in a couple of months. Crowds would certainly increase to see a successful team playing local opposition.

I don't think they should get a free pass on a tier 2 license, but a late application, if they want to and have the right things in place for, would smoothe their way across. If they don't want to, or cannot qualify for the license, then step 3. Any lower looks a bit cruel to me. Welsh Alliance 2 is way below NP1W iMO.

Whilst technically possible they could defer an application for a year if they aren't placed at their desired level, this seems unlikely to me - the next season would be a dead rubber in that case, so hard to generate interest from anyone I would think (fans, sponsors, players).



-----------------------------------------------
Last new football ground (914) RTU Stadium Rigas FS 0-0 Spartaks
With FC United: 132
On the agenda:
20/5 Dundalk v Bohemian FC
23/5 Hindley v Wigan St Cuthberts (rl)


Gladstone
Youth Team Star

Mar 14, 2019, 7:50 PM

Posts: 268
Location:
Team(s):

Post #38 of 45 (2473 views)
Shortcut
Re: [oftenscore6] Colwyn Bay & the Welsh Pyramid [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
I think that there would be a huge outcry from clubs if they were placed higher than Tier 3, primarily because of the new licensing rules brought in for next season that clubs have been working towards (and for which CB have missed the application deadline). They've had a few poor seasons recently, including 2 relegations, so starting at Tier 3 with plenty of local derbies, and a league that they could well go and win, would be an ideal level for them to start. They can then have a look around and see what needs to be done for a Tier 2 licence for the following season without having to rush it through in a couple of months. Crowds would certainly increase to see a successful team playing local opposition.

I don't think they should get a free pass on a tier 2 license, but a late application, if they want to and have the right things in place for, would smoothe their way across. If they don't want to, or cannot qualify for the license, then step 3. Any lower looks a bit cruel to me. Welsh Alliance 2 is way below NP1W iMO.

Whilst technically possible they could defer an application for a year if they aren't placed at their desired level, this seems unlikely to me - the next season would be a dead rubber in that case, so hard to generate interest from anyone I would think (fans, sponsors, players).


I concur with virtually all of this, with one caveat: should the FAW deem them fit on a late application for Tier 2 (unlikely if their finances are as iffy as they appear from this thread) then Tier 2 North should be expanded to 17 clubs for 2019/20. Else it is unfair on the other clubs looking to promotion/reprieve to/from T2 when the dust has settled on Cymru Alliance and Tier 3 leagues.



Gladstone


Unicorn
Chelsea Transfer Target

Mar 15, 2019, 8:37 AM

Posts: 3755
Location: Canterbury
Team(s): Arsenal and South Eastern Football

Post #39 of 45 (2268 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Gladstone] Colwyn Bay & the Welsh Pyramid [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

When a club passes from one national system to another should there not be input from EUFA even if Colwyn Bay are not a top flight club?


leohoenig
Administrator

Mar 15, 2019, 9:35 AM

Posts: 13096
Location: Outer Cheltenhamshire
Team(s): Cheltenham Town

Post #40 of 45 (2218 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Unicorn] Colwyn Bay & the Welsh Pyramid [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
When a club passes from one national system to another should there not be input from EUFA even if Colwyn Bay are not a top flight club?



I do not expect UEFA to get involved - especially as Colwyn Bay are moving into the FAW leagues. If a team playing in Welsh leagues tried to join the English pyramid, and the FAW objected then there may be UEFA involvement


Any player staying with the club from last season to this will need international clearance!!



Fat AND Pompous.
The proof that you can have too much of a good thing
Now blogging at http://www.leohoenig.com



dottirofhod
Man City Transfer Target!


Mar 15, 2019, 11:51 AM

Posts: 13226
Location: The North. 'Ich hassen lehm kopfs'
Team(s): Crewe Alex and obviously England.(Unlike a lot on here)

Post #41 of 45 (2155 views)
Shortcut
Re: [leohoenig] Colwyn Bay & the Welsh Pyramid [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

But what about EUFA ?



July 1, 2018 to June 30,2019 = 253 /214 / 41 (You know my rules) @ 25 / 05 / 2019.

Benelux = Bel = 0-0-0-(0-0-0)-(0-0-0-0-0). Lux = 0-0. Neth-= 0-0-0-(0 - 0).
Now blogging at https://eccentricity.video.blog/author/dadofdottie/





adamsquire86
Youth Team Sub


Mar 18, 2019, 6:52 PM

Posts: 165
Location: Wrexham
Team(s): Wrexham, Wales, Coedpoeth United, Cefn Druids, Cardiff City

Post #42 of 45 (1613 views)
Shortcut
Re: [leohoenig] Colwyn Bay & the Welsh Pyramid [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
When a club passes from one national system to another should there not be input from EUFA even if Colwyn Bay are not a top flight club?



I do not expect UEFA to get involved - especially as Colwyn Bay are moving into the FAW leagues. If a team playing in Welsh leagues tried to join the English pyramid, and the FAW objected then there may be UEFA involvement


Any player staying with the club from last season to this will need international clearance!!


Any current players wishing to stay wouldnt need International Clearance. Although they play in an English league, they register their players with the FAW. Therefore all current Colwyn Bay players international clearance is already in Wales.



Welsh Head Researcher for Football Manager computer game series. Anyone interested in being a researcher get in touch.


cybihood
Junior Team Sub

Mar 29, 2019, 5:06 PM

Posts: 17
Location:
Team(s):

Post #43 of 45 (1154 views)
Shortcut
Re: [adamsquire86] Colwyn Bay & the Welsh Pyramid [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Colwyn Bay have been put in Tier 2 next season.
Seems quite generous. Wonder what will happen if only two clubs eligible for promotion to Tier 2 - does third bottom stay up as normal or drop down?


T P Johnson
Reserve Team Regular

Mar 29, 2019, 6:16 PM

Posts: 613
Location:
Team(s):

Post #44 of 45 (1089 views)
Shortcut
Re: [cybihood] Colwyn Bay & the Welsh Pyramid [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

From some tweets it appears Tier 2 North will run with 17 clubs next season unless of course one is refused a licence
Both Barry Town and Rhyl were put in that tier when they returned.


Tim Johnson


gcnc
Man City Transfer Target!

Mar 30, 2019, 8:24 AM

Posts: 11002
Location: Pontypool
Team(s): Newport County

Post #45 of 45 (851 views)
Shortcut
Re: [T P Johnson] Colwyn Bay & the Welsh Pyramid [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

FAW statement;

The Football Association of Wales today accepted Colwyn Bay Football Clubs application to participate in the Welsh domestic game.

From next season Colwyn Bay will play their football in the newly formed FAW Tier Two League.

The new league will operate with 17 clubs in the 2019-20 season. This means that there will no impact on relegation from the Huws Gray Alliance League to Tier Three this season.

Next season Craig Hoggs team will enter the JD Welsh Cup at the First Round stage on October 19th,2019.


First page Previous page 1 2 Next page Last page  View All
 
 


free hit counters

Search for (options) HOSTED BY SUMMIT SOCCER v.1.2.3