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The Vote Again Brigade - An Observation

 

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HertsHopper
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Feb 25, 2019, 2:17 PM

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The Vote Again Brigade - An Observation Can't Post or Reply Privately

So my non-league travels have taken me around the south-east of England this season, especially the Isthmian clubs. On Saturday I paid a first visit to East Grinstead who were entertaining Hastings United. I had my usual walk down the high street looking for a place to have a nice pint when I was approached by a plum-voiced lady who stuck a leaflet under my nose, imploring me to campaign for a 'People's Vote'. ''People's Vote?'' say's I, ''didn't we already have one of those already?'' ''Huh'' say's she, ''I knew what you were going to say before you said it.''
''How could you tell?'' I enquired, but Mrs Vote Again (and do it right next time) was already stomping down the road. The encounter bemused me somewhat and I had experienced the exact same thing in Dorking recently.
So what do East Grinstead and Dorking have in common? Both are overwhelmingly white, middle class, wealthy London commuter towns. I've yet to see the same mob in Herne Bay, Margate, Ramsgate, Hastings etc. Also how could she tell what I was going to say before I said it? Is it because I have short hair and tattoo's? I must give off a council estate vibe, and my working class voice when I did speak must have confirmed the ladies fears. If their hobby is preaching to the converted each Saturday in the likes of East Grinstead and Dorking then good luck to them, but they should learn to engage with people outside of their exclusively white, elderly, middle class comfort zone.


(This post was edited by HertsHopper on Feb 25, 2019, 2:20 PM)


Isaac
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Feb 25, 2019, 2:59 PM

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Post #2 of 46 (2215 views)
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In Reply To
So my non-league travels have taken me around the south-east of England this season, especially the Isthmian clubs. On Saturday I paid a first visit to East Grinstead who were entertaining Hastings United. I had my usual walk down the high street looking for a place to have a nice pint when I was approached by a plum-voiced lady who stuck a leaflet under my nose, imploring me to campaign for a 'People's Vote'. ''People's Vote?'' say's I, ''didn't we already have one of those already?'' ''Huh'' say's she, ''I knew what you were going to say before you said it.''
''How could you tell?'' I enquired, but Mrs Vote Again (and do it right next time) was already stomping down the road. The encounter bemused me somewhat and I had experienced the exact same thing in Dorking recently.
So what do East Grinstead and Dorking have in common? Both are overwhelmingly white, middle class, wealthy London commuter towns. I've yet to see the same mob in Herne Bay, Margate, Ramsgate, Hastings etc. Also how could she tell what I was going to say before I said it? Is it because I have short hair and tattoo's? I must give off a council estate vibe, and my working class voice when I did speak must have confirmed the ladies fears. If their hobby is preaching to the converted each Saturday in the likes of East Grinstead and Dorking then good luck to them, but they should learn to engage with people outside of their exclusively white, elderly, middle class comfort zone.


I'm in East Grinstead from time to time so I'll keep an eye out for her, she'll get short shrift from meMad!


AndyE
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Feb 25, 2019, 3:52 PM

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Post #3 of 46 (2180 views)
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Re: [HertsHopper] The Vote Again Brigade - An Observation [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
So what do East Grinstead and Dorking have in common? Both are overwhelmingly white, middle class, wealthy London commuter towns. I've yet to see the same mob in Herne Bay, Margate, Ramsgate, Hastings etc. Also how could she tell what I was going to say before I said it? Is it


What East Grinstead and Dorking have in common, and the other places named don't, is that they voted Remain.

Obviously that makes them better places for Peoples Vote-ists to do their thing.


R.S.Cavendish
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Feb 25, 2019, 5:19 PM

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Post #4 of 46 (2134 views)
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Re: [AndyE] The Vote Again Brigade - An Observation [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Just as a side comment, it was beyond my belief that people voted to leave. The Boris led campaign was an obvious pack of lies from start to finish. So what do we get? The return of hanging; ducking stools; pounds, shillings and pence; feet and inches; no foreign food; compulsory church on Sunday. In fact it's back to the dark ages.


PaulC
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Feb 25, 2019, 7:34 PM

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Post #5 of 46 (2036 views)
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Re: [HertsHopper] The Vote Again Brigade - An Observation [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Is there any reason why this isn't in the existing EU/Brexit thread.


jon b
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Feb 25, 2019, 8:10 PM

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Post #6 of 46 (2002 views)
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It's another independent breakaway group.


Tykeoldboy
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Feb 25, 2019, 8:52 PM

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Post #7 of 46 (1967 views)
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Re: [jon b] The Vote Again Brigade - An Observation [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I propose a vote on whether to move this thread to the EU/Brexit thread and if I don't get the outcome I want then we will vote again and again.


PaulC
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Feb 25, 2019, 9:55 PM

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I propose a vote on whether to move this thread to the EU/Brexit thread and if I don't get the outcome I want then we will vote again and again.


I propose Theresa May sets the date of the vote.


Ronsdog
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Feb 26, 2019, 1:19 AM

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Post #9 of 46 (1833 views)
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In Reply To

In Reply To
I propose a vote on whether to move this thread to the EU/Brexit thread and if I don't get the outcome I want then we will vote again and again.


I propose Theresa May sets the date of the vote.


.................which will be delayed whilst we argue about which question to pose !!!


coops
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Feb 26, 2019, 2:18 AM

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Post #10 of 46 (1815 views)
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In Reply To
I propose a vote on whether to move this thread to the EU/Brexit thread and if I don't get the outcome I want then we will vote again and again.


We'll have a meaningful vote next week.

Or maybe the week after.

Or maybe on another unspecified date at some point, but rest assured we will have one.


Yatesman
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Feb 26, 2019, 7:20 AM

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Post #11 of 46 (1761 views)
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Re: [HertsHopper] The Vote Again Brigade - An Observation [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
So my non-league travels have taken me around the south-east of England this season, especially the Isthmian clubs. On Saturday I paid a first visit to East Grinstead who were entertaining Hastings United. I had my usual walk down the high street looking for a place to have a nice pint when I was approached by a plum-voiced lady who stuck a leaflet under my nose, imploring me to campaign for a 'People's Vote'. ''People's Vote?'' say's I, ''didn't we already have one of those already?'' ''Huh'' say's she, ''I knew what you were going to say before you said it.''
''How could you tell?'' I enquired, but Mrs Vote Again (and do it right next time) was already stomping down the road. The encounter bemused me somewhat and I had experienced the exact same thing in Dorking recently.
So what do East Grinstead and Dorking have in common? Both are overwhelmingly white, middle class, wealthy London commuter towns. I've yet to see the same mob in Herne Bay, Margate, Ramsgate, Hastings etc. Also how could she tell what I was going to say before I said it? Is it because I have short hair and tattoo's? I must give off a council estate vibe, and my working class voice when I did speak must have confirmed the ladies fears. If their hobby is preaching to the converted each Saturday in the likes of East Grinstead and Dorking then good luck to them, but they should learn to engage with people outside of their exclusively white, elderly, middle class comfort zone.


Very similar to the way the white ,elderly, (smugly) comfortable middle class contributors on this forum have just hi jacked your thread and refused to take your point seriously........How dare the hoi polloi threaten their cosy little world and try to improve your lot.

Now get back in your box, you pleb


Isaac
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Feb 26, 2019, 7:22 AM

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Post #12 of 46 (1756 views)
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Re: [R.S.Cavendish] The Vote Again Brigade - An Observation [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Just as a side comment, it was beyond my belief that people voted to leave. The Boris led campaign was an obvious pack of lies from start to finish. So what do we get? The return of hanging; ducking stools; pounds, shillings and pence; feet and inches; no foreign food; compulsory church on Sunday. In fact it's back to the dark ages.


What utter tripe, you're the one living in the dark ages!


essexian
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Feb 26, 2019, 7:35 AM

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Post #13 of 46 (1740 views)
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Re: [Isaac] The Vote Again Brigade - An Observation [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Hi, my name is not important. Sorry for the delay on the line but it’s a long way from Moscow to you.

So, you Brits are going to have another vote on whether you leave the EU are you. Well, terms are the same as last time: I provide lots of money, you act illegally and against election law. Don’t worry, while people will know what we have done, they don’t care/won’t be able to do anything about it as I have also brought most of the Traitors Party… sorry, just my little joke, I meant the Tory party, the BBC and of course the wonderful Daily Mail and Express. Hell, we used to have a good laugh at the stuff Pravda used to publish but frankly, they weren’t half as good as lying and deceiving the public as these two organs of the “free” press.

“Free” press….hahahahahahahahha….it cost me a fortune! Nevermind eh, it will be worth it in the end when we have separated the UK from Europe and can use it as an off seas dumping ground for all our dodgy money! And of course, given we also own the USA, we move closer to world domination!

So, the plan for the new referendum is first get the right question on the ballot paper: there should only be two: Leave with Mrs May’s deal or No Deal. Thankfully, quite a few people are so thick they think No Deal means staying in the EU. Ah, are they going to have such a surprise when they discover it doesn’t and that they have to pay £55 a day for visiting Europe and of course, they can no longer get fresh veg, their car washed or a decent plumber as they have all been rounded up and sent home. Also, if there are only two questions, then Remain voters won’t vote in large numbers meaning that the result will be unrepresentative but who cares….didn’t stop us last time did it!

Three questions on the ballot makes it a little more difficult but I have a plan….go hell for leather on pushing that the vote is illegal, is against the will of the people and is the EU telling us to vote again and again and again until we get it right. Wouldn’t it be funny if the public knew the truth…..hahahahaha. If that doesn’t work, we could get some of our useful idiots to start a few riots and perhaps burn down a polling station or two….. nah, that’s not really the British way so instead, let’s go for a boycott and if needed, let them win this round and go for a long term approach. I am sure Nigel and Moggy would be happy with a few more millions of our dirty money to push for a fourth vote in a few years. We would put around stories about how the EU did us over and how we are now poorer because of them. Well it worked last time despite not being true.

My only concern….we need a way of getting out of the money laundering/Tax rules which are being introduced in April. If we don’t, sorry, we no longer have a use for your damp little dump of an island and will take our money elsewhere.


Regards


Mr P.


Yatesman
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Feb 26, 2019, 7:41 AM

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Post #14 of 46 (1733 views)
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Re: [essexian] The Vote Again Brigade - An Observation [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Hi, my name is not important. Sorry for the delay on the line but it’s a long way from Moscow to you.

So, you Brits are going to have another vote on whether you leave the EU are you. Well, terms are the same as last time: I provide lots of money, you act illegally and against election law. Don’t worry, while people will know what we have done, they don’t care/won’t be able to do anything about it as I have also brought most of the Traitors Party… sorry, just my little joke, I meant the Tory party, the BBC and of course the wonderful Daily Mail and Express. Hell, we used to have a good laugh at the stuff Pravda used to publish but frankly, they weren’t half as good as lying and deceiving the public as these two organs of the “free” press.

“Free” press….hahahahahahahahha….it cost me a fortune! Nevermind eh, it will be worth it in the end when we have separated the UK from Europe and can use it as an off seas dumping ground for all our dodgy money! And of course, given we also own the USA, we move closer to world domination!

So, the plan for the new referendum is first get the right question on the ballot paper: there should only be two: Leave with Mrs May’s deal or No Deal. Thankfully, quite a few people are so thick they think No Deal means staying in the EU. Ah, are they going to have such a surprise when they discover it doesn’t and that they have to pay £55 a day for visiting Europe and of course, they can no longer get fresh veg, their car washed or a decent plumber as they have all been rounded up and sent home. Also, if there are only two questions, then Remain voters won’t vote in large numbers meaning that the result will be unrepresentative but who cares….didn’t stop us last time did it!

Three questions on the ballot makes it a little more difficult but I have a plan….go hell for leather on pushing that the vote is illegal, is against the will of the people and is the EU telling us to vote again and again and again until we get it right. Wouldn’t it be funny if the public knew the truth…..hahahahaha. If that doesn’t work, we could get some of our useful idiots to start a few riots and perhaps burn down a polling station or two….. nah, that’s not really the British way so instead, let’s go for a boycott and if needed, let them win this round and go for a long term approach. I am sure Nigel and Moggy would be happy with a few more millions of our dirty money to push for a fourth vote in a few years. We would put around stories about how the EU did us over and how we are now poorer because of them. Well it worked last time despite not being true.

My only concern….we need a way of getting out of the money laundering/Tax rules which are being introduced in April. If we don’t, sorry, we no longer have a use for your damp little dump of an island and will take our money elsewhere.


Regards


Mr P.


Ahhhh.......That explains everything, thank you.

Good to know someone's got a plan!


TroubleAtMill
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Feb 26, 2019, 8:53 AM

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Post #15 of 46 (1672 views)
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Re: [Yatesman] The Vote Again Brigade - An Observation [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Nothing wrong with having another vote and in all liklihood I'll change my vote, from what to what doesn't really matter.

With the re-vote I expect the same outcome, a leave win. I know enough people who voted remain last time who will now vote leave (in part due to EUs perceived intransigence) to counterbalance those moving from leave to remain, (who perceive they were hoodwinked by farage Boris and Co or no longer trust the government to deliver a sane economically viable leave, which they had believed possible)


jon b
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Feb 26, 2019, 8:58 AM

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Post #16 of 46 (1670 views)
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Re: [Yatesman] The Vote Again Brigade - An Observation [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

 

Very similar to the way the white ,elderly, (smugly) comfortable middle class contributors on this forum have just hi jacked your thread and refused to take your point seriously........How dare the hoi polloi threaten their cosy little world and try to improve your lot.

Now get back in your box, you pleb


Although the opening post was an interesting story, it seemed a bit odd that it was thought worth a separate thread from the main Brexit thread given that it seems to basically be saying that you're likely to encounter fiercely committed Remainers in areas that voted Remain in the Referendum and fiercely committed Leavers in areas that voted Leave.

We're also all too well aware that there are smug and arrogant individuals on both sides of the Brexit debate.


(This post was edited by jon b on Feb 26, 2019, 10:31 AM)


PaulC
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Feb 26, 2019, 9:22 AM

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Nothing wrong with having another vote and in all liklihood I'll change my vote, from what to what doesn't really matter.

With the re-vote I expect the same outcome, a leave win. I know enough people who voted remain last time who will now vote leave (in part due to EUs perceived intransigence) to counterbalance those moving from leave to remain, (who perceive they were hoodwinked by farage Boris and Co or no longer trust the government to deliver a sane economically viable leave, which they had believed possible)


Yet the last 100+ polls show the trend is away from Leave towards Remain. Remain lead is in the range of 6-9%.




TroubleAtMill
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Feb 26, 2019, 9:44 AM

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Post #18 of 46 (1636 views)
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In Reply To
Nothing wrong with having another vote and in all liklihood I'll change my vote, from what to what doesn't really matter.

With the re-vote I expect the same outcome, a leave win. I know enough people who voted remain last time who will now vote leave (in part due to EUs perceived intransigence) to counterbalance those moving from leave to remain, (who perceive they were hoodwinked by farage Boris and Co or no longer trust the government to deliver a sane economically viable leave, which they had believed possible)


Yet the last 100+ polls show the trend is away from Leave towards Remain. Remain lead is in the range of 6-9%.



I may well be wrong in my prediction, which would make as reliable as any opinion poll. Cool


paulh66
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Feb 26, 2019, 10:58 AM

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Post #19 of 46 (1583 views)
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Is there any reason why this isn't in the existing EU/Brexit thread.


Assuming this is a question (most educated voters use a ? in such cases) then the answer should be perfectly obvious - this thread, as the title and content suggests, is an observed example of one fanatic's unwillingness to reach across the divide, and the sheer futility of their actions. More so as, in this case, it's a divide based merely on initial perception rather than anything more substantive. A little social commentary, if you like.

The other thread, as its title suggests, is (supposedly) about Brexit negotiations.

Of course, both threads have degenerated into the usual myopic tub-thumping we've come to expect from... well....fanatics unwilling to reach across the divide.


R.S.Cavendish
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Feb 26, 2019, 11:21 AM

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Post #20 of 46 (1559 views)
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Re: [Isaac] The Vote Again Brigade - An Observation [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Ah, the Dark Ages.

Wonderful times. I remember them fondly.


PaulC
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Feb 26, 2019, 12:56 PM

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Post #21 of 46 (1508 views)
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In Reply To
Is there any reason why this isn't in the existing EU/Brexit thread.


Assuming this is a question (most educated voters use a ? in such cases) then the answer should be perfectly obvious - this thread, as the title and content suggests,.


Tut tut. Two subjects require pluralisation of the verb.


HertsHopper
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Feb 26, 2019, 3:00 PM

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Post #22 of 46 (1404 views)
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Just an observation based on my non-league wanderings. I did look at the last page of the existing EU thread but it didn't seem to fit there and a decent amount of various viewpoints have been expressed here, suggesting it was possibly worthwhile.
I suppose the point was in pointing out the irony (and ultimate futility) of the 'people's vote' lot in their unwillingness to engage with other viewpoints outside of their target demographic.


PaulC
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Feb 26, 2019, 5:53 PM

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So what do East Grinstead and Dorking have in common? Both are overwhelmingly white, middle class, wealthy London commuter towns. I've yet to see the same mob in Herne Bay, Margate, Ramsgate, Hastings etc.


Demographics
Herne Bay 99% white
Margate 97.1% white
Hastings 93.8% white
Ramsgate 98.0% white

Dorking 95.0% white
East Grinstead 94.9% white


Yatesman
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Feb 26, 2019, 7:14 PM

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Post #24 of 46 (1260 views)
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In Reply To
So what do East Grinstead and Dorking have in common? Both are overwhelmingly white, middle class, wealthy London commuter towns. I've yet to see the same mob in Herne Bay, Margate, Ramsgate, Hastings etc.


Demographics
Herne Bay 99% white
Margate 97.1% white
Hastings 93.8% white
Ramsgate 98.0% white

Dorking 95.0% white
East Grinstead 94.9% white


That explains so little I fail to see the point of the post.

Demographics are not just about skin colour but Age, Sex, income level, educational attainment, marital status, religion, place of birth etc, etc

Two areas that are both 99% white will have extreme difference in character if the comparitive median ages are 67 and 45 and the comparitive median income is £45,000 pa and £21,000 pa for example.

Simply stating skin colour is meaningless......

White ( British) ?
White ( Irish) ?
White ( Polish) ?
White ( Other European) ?
White ( Other)


HertsHopper
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Feb 26, 2019, 7:16 PM

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Re: [PaulC] The Vote Again Brigade - An Observation [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Granted there isn't much difference on the 'white' part of the equation on the examples I provided. I was pointing out the different experiences in travelling to Isthmian league clubs, I didn't claim that my example towns weren't overwhelmingly white. Being wealthy London commuter towns in those cases is the main factor. I could have mentioned somewhere much closer to home for me that voted leave - Luton, in that case it would be a London commuter town (to some extent), but isn't overwhelmingly white or wealthy. Contrast how Luton voted vs St Albans and you get the picture. Or contrast middle class St Albans with a working class town a similar distance from London in Stevenage that IS overwhelmingly white but certainly not wealthy. So to summarize, my point would have been better made by leaving the white part out in relation to my specific example of Isthmian league towns. Thank you for pointing out a part of my sentence that could be misperceived.

If you look at a map of the referendum result, you'll struggle to see any south-east (or for that point any part of England)working class communities that voted majority Remain. The moneyed area's that voted Remain are all very white too, whereas the Leave area's are a real mixture of ethnically diverse (Bedford, Luton) and not so ethnically diverse. Food for thought.


(This post was edited by HertsHopper on Feb 26, 2019, 7:49 PM)

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