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Home: Non-League Football Discussion: Restructuring Discussion:
Is there a need for Step 7?

 

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Yorkstar
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Nov 2, 2018, 8:06 AM

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Is there a need for Step 7? Can't Post or Reply Privately

With the creation (chaos) of the new structure for Steps 3 - 6 from the FA, I am wondering if there still is needed a Step 7?

Most of these are county leagues, run by the CFA's. The grounds tend to be more fields than actual structures, and there are not many who facilities (at least in Yorkshire) which will enable promotion to Step 6 without significant funds.

Would it not be better to fill Step 6 leagues with any qualifying applicants, and then allow teams outside to apply to the FA to join Step 6 - the FA could investigate facilities, the playing record, etc and decide if suitable.

The current Step 7 clubs who do not want promotion can then concentrate on their football, not their facilities and the FA would save by not having to fund Step 7 (which costs them 3,000 per league + the grants). This money could be put back into CFA budgets and used differently.

Thoughts?


007Dale
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Nov 2, 2018, 10:37 AM

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Re: [Yorkstar] Is there a need for Step 7? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Personally, I would scrap step 6, it adds unnecessary depth to the pyramid without sufficient width.

Imagine a scenario with 32 good quality county leagues, lots of local games and minimal travel. These could feed into 16 step 5 leagues. Requires a few of the smaller county leagues to come together, but would be my preferred solution.


Sunny Nunny
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Nov 2, 2018, 10:58 AM

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Re: [007Dale] Is there a need for Step 7? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Agree . Should be regional leagues at step 5 & county leagues at step 6 . Some of the travelling clubs have to do at step 6 & 7 is ridiculous for clubs of their size .


Bigaitch
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Nov 2, 2018, 6:54 PM

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Re: [007Dale] Is there a need for Step 7? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Personally, I would scrap step 6, it adds unnecessary depth to the pyramid without sufficient width.

Imagine a scenario with 32 good quality county leagues, lots of local games and minimal travel. These could feed into 16 step 5 leagues. Requires a few of the smaller county leagues to come together, but would be my preferred solution.


Bang on ! Could not agree more re this. More quality is required, less quantity.


leohoenig
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Nov 2, 2018, 10:56 PM

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Re: [Bigaitch] Is there a need for Step 7? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I quite agree with the sentiments, but would take it further. Below this step 6/7, every County should be expected to create its local pyramid with suitable numbers if steps/tiers and appropriate regionisation, so as every team had a firm promotion/relegation structure from the Premier League to the parks.

Gloucestershire had this set up thirty years ago (although I am not 100% sure it is still in place). There should not be a route to the leapfrog any level just because you have negotiated a ground with facilities



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pitch 63
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Nov 3, 2018, 11:52 AM

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Re: [leohoenig] Is there a need for Step 7? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I quite agree with the sentiments, but would take it further. Below this step 6/7, every County should be expected to create its local pyramid with suitable numbers if steps/tiers and appropriate regionisation, so as every team had a firm promotion/relegation structure from the Premier League to the parks.

Gloucestershire had this set up thirty years ago (although I am not 100% sure it is still in place). There should not be a route to the leapfrog any level just because you have negotiated a ground with facilities


It's still in existence. Clubs have to start at the very bottom of the pyramid on parks pitches.


ictoan
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Nov 3, 2018, 2:16 PM

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Re: [pitch 63] Is there a need for Step 7? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Sussex has a long established pyramid. Eastbourne Borough are probably the best example of a club that has climbed from parks football to the National League.



There 'Ant no place like Sussex, until you goes above, 'Cause Sussex will be Sussex and Sussex wunt be druv.

The North begins at Gatwick.


Carter
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Nov 3, 2018, 8:51 PM

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Re: [ictoan] Is there a need for Step 7? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

There is probably a case in some arts of the country to remove Step from some leagues, particularly thise that have rarely if ever promoted anyone for what ever reason.
However there are some araes where there are very strong step 7 leagues, so it shouldnt be done across the board.


old knut
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Nov 4, 2018, 11:44 PM

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Re: [007Dale] Is there a need for Step 7? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Scrap step 6 ?
Oh dear, my lot at step 6 have spent almost 1 million pounds on upgrading their ground in the past 15 years, using grants and funding wherever possible. We are doing our utmost now to regain step 5 status on the pitch (suddenly there is only 1 promotion place available, maybe 2) and you want us to play at county level on fields with a rope surround. We turned down step 4 nine years ago, having unexpectedly won our step 5 league, on travel grounds and the costs involved. I pushed for promotion but the chairman was right, we could not afford it and a few years later the playing budget disappeared and relegation to step 6 followed. We did the right thing, spending it on the ground and now at long last we can afford to have a playing budget again you want to scrap our step six league and put us out to grass.

Too many steps I do agree but why sling clubs like mine at step 6 on the scrapheap and destroy our ambition?


Sarumio
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Nov 5, 2018, 9:13 AM

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Re: [old knut] Is there a need for Step 7? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Scrap step 6 ?
Oh dear, my lot at step 6 have spent almost 1 million pounds on upgrading their ground in the past 15 years, using grants and funding wherever possible. We are doing our utmost now to regain step 5 status on the pitch (suddenly there is only 1 promotion place available, maybe 2) and you want us to play at county level on fields with a rope surround. We turned down step 4 nine years ago, having unexpectedly won our step 5 league, on travel grounds and the costs involved. I pushed for promotion but the chairman was right, we could not afford it and a few years later the playing budget disappeared and relegation to step 6 followed. We did the right thing, spending it on the ground and now at long last we can afford to have a playing budget again you want to scrap our step six league and put us out to grass.

Too many steps I do agree but why sling clubs like mine at step 6 on the scrapheap and destroy our ambition?


Oooh this is like a game.

Are we talking Winterton Rangers here?


Terrierdave
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Nov 5, 2018, 9:17 AM

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Re: [Sarumio] Is there a need for Step 7? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Programme editor for them it appears


Sarumio
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Nov 5, 2018, 9:53 AM

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Re: [pitch 63] Is there a need for Step 7? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
I quite agree with the sentiments, but would take it further. Below this step 6/7, every County should be expected to create its local pyramid with suitable numbers if steps/tiers and appropriate regionisation, so as every team had a firm promotion/relegation structure from the Premier League to the parks.

Gloucestershire had this set up thirty years ago (although I am not 100% sure it is still in place). There should not be a route to the leapfrog any level just because you have negotiated a ground with facilities


It's still in existence. Clubs have to start at the very bottom of the pyramid on parks pitches.


Ah yes I remember watching AFC Liverpool in the I-Zingari Combination.

Oh and remember that time when the masses turned up to watch AFC Wimbledon's first ever match in the Wimbledon & District League's bottom division.

And when Gresley played in the Midlands Regional Alliance.


(This post was edited by Sarumio on Nov 5, 2018, 9:59 AM)


Tim
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Nov 5, 2018, 10:24 AM

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Re: [Sarumio] Is there a need for Step 7? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
I quite agree with the sentiments, but would take it further. Below this step 6/7, every County should be expected to create its local pyramid with suitable numbers if steps/tiers and appropriate regionisation, so as every team had a firm promotion/relegation structure from the Premier League to the parks.

Gloucestershire had this set up thirty years ago (although I am not 100% sure it is still in place). There should not be a route to the leapfrog any level just because you have negotiated a ground with facilities[/r

It's still in existence. Clubs have to start at the very bottom of the pyramid on parks pitches.


Ah yes I remember watching AFC Liverpool in the I-Zingari Combination.

Oh and remember that time when the masses turned up to watch AFC Wimbledon's first ever match in the Wimbledon & District League's bottom division.

And when Gresley played in the Midlands Regional Alliance.


Read again. Pitch63 is talking about Gloucestershire. Where the pyramid works....


pokal02
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Nov 5, 2018, 1:32 PM

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Re: [Sarumio] Is there a need for Step 7? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

To be fair, I don't see this as slinging ambitious step 6 clubs on the scrapheap. There would still be promotion to Step 5 and the 'county' leagues would be of considerably higher standard than at present, with each (if there were 32) receiving an average of 10-11 clubs (ie more than 50% of the league) from the current Step 6.


mick
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Nov 5, 2018, 4:55 PM

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Re: [Sarumio] Is there a need for Step 7? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Ah yes I remember watching AFC Liverpool in the I-Zingari Combination.


So you watched AFC Liverpool playing in a Gloucestershire League where they were the only team. Impressive. Did they win ?


Skippy01
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Nov 6, 2018, 2:09 AM

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Re: [mick] Is there a need for Step 7? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Down in Cornwall and Devon, Steps 6 and 7 are very much needed. The step 6 teams are significantly stronger. If teams such as Wendron, Bude and Ludgvan were put in the same league as Falmouth, Saltash and St Austell were then there would be many lopsided score lines and interest would wane.


Richard Rundle
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Nov 6, 2018, 8:50 AM

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Re: [Skippy01] Is there a need for Step 7? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Down in Cornwall and Devon, Steps 6 and 7 are very much needed. The step 6 teams are significantly stronger. If teams such as Wendron, Bude and Ludgvan were put in the same league as Falmouth, Saltash and St Austell were then there would be many lopsided score lines and interest would wane.


Yet that's sort of what the FA are pushing through for next season.


genesimmons
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Nov 7, 2018, 1:39 PM

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Re: [Richard Rundle] Is there a need for Step 7? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Not yet unless you have a area with less than a dozen teams in a step 7 division. In the north east there are two step 7 leagues with a few wearside league clubs having grounds to play higher up the pyramid. If and when a new north east/Yorkshire step 4 division is formed step 7 leagues in the area may loose a few clubs. Would be a few years before step 7 in the region would be scrapped if ever. Also if there was no step 7 the same clubs at step 6 could finish bottom every other year like they did before step 7 was part of the pyramid and make things really boring.



You wanted the best, you got the best


BDA_85
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Nov 7, 2018, 3:44 PM

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Re: [genesimmons] Is there a need for Step 7? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Still an issue in SSML Prem. The bottom 3 last season were Oxhey Jets, Cockfosters and Stotfold and none of them were relegated. So far this season Stotfold haven't won a league game and were knocked out the North Beds Charity Cup by a Div 1 team and the League Challenge Trophy by a Div 2 team.


Sarumio
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Nov 8, 2018, 9:20 AM

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Re: [BDA_85] Is there a need for Step 7? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Still an issue in SSML Prem. The bottom 3 last season were Oxhey Jets, Cockfosters and Stotfold and none of them were relegated. So far this season Stotfold haven't won a league game and were knocked out the North Beds Charity Cup by a Div 1 team and the League Challenge Trophy by a Div 2 team.


And the team directly above Stotfold is,,,,Cockfosters!


BDA_85
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Nov 8, 2018, 10:32 AM

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Re: [Sarumio] Is there a need for Step 7? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Indeed! Cockfosters are slightly more in touch with those above.


stevegraze
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Nov 26, 2018, 9:43 PM

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Re: [leohoenig] Is there a need for Step 7? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Gloucestershire has a very well organised local pyramid (down to Step 13!). Teams that get relegated from the Glos Northern Senior League usually go down to the Cheltenham, North Glos, or Stroud and District League.


(This post was edited by stevegraze on Nov 26, 2018, 10:34 PM)


leohoenig
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Nov 26, 2018, 10:08 PM

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Re: [stevegraze] Is there a need for Step 7? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Gloucestershire has a very well organised local pyramid (down to Step 13!). Teams that get relegated from the Glos Northern Senior League usually go down to the Cheltenham, North Glos, or Cirencester and District League.


Stroud League, not Cirencester.
If we carry on the steps, the Northern Senior is steps 8/9, then three leagues at Step 10. I can't remember if the Cirencester is nominally step 11 or 12, but it clubs wanting to progress are most likely to move to Stroud or Cheltenham Leagues. The North Glos includes Gloucester, but also the Forest of Dean



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stevegraze
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Nov 26, 2018, 10:43 PM

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Re: [leohoenig] Is there a need for Step 7? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Yes. Since the Glos County League is Step 7, the Glos NSL's two divisions are steps 8, and 9, while the top divisions of the Cheltenham, North Glos, and Stroud Leagues are step 10 (with their lower divisions going down to step 13). I have seen teams like Gala Wilton and Slimbridge go up from the local step 10 leagues into the Hellenic League (at Step 5). The fact that such teams stormed up the leagues in successive seasons/with successive title wins (and that the champions of the Cheltenham League usually win Glos NSL Div 2 and go straight to the top of Glos NSL Div 1) tells me that the difference in the standard of play between the leagues/divisions at steps 8-10 is pretty even.

Bishops Cleeve's first team play at Step 5, while their reserves are at Step 8, and their Third team at step 10.


chrisby
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Nov 27, 2018, 9:18 AM

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Re: [stevegraze] Is there a need for Step 7? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Gloucestershire do seem to have a very well organised and defined set-up: it's a shame some other counties don't follow their model.

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