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Home: Non-League Football Discussion: Restructuring Discussion:
South West Peninsula League area from 2019-20

 

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Richard Rundle
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Sep 15, 2018, 12:54 PM

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South West Peninsula League area from 2019-20 Can't Post or Reply Privately

This seems more appropriate to have a thread of its own rather than hijack the Hellenic League 2018-19 thread to which it is doubly irrelevant.

Just as a reminder, this is the text of the FA communication this week:

Dear Club Secretary

National League System Step 6 & 7 – South West England

You will be aware that over the last twelve months discussions have been taking place between the Devon County Football Association, Cornwall County Football Association, South West Peninsula League, Devon & Exeter League and the Football Association as to what would be the best structure to support and develop senior football in the South West.

The view of all representatives is that the new structure must provide the opportunity for those clubs who wish to progress in the National League System, whilst at the same time retaining the highest possible level of football for those clubs who through geographical or financial constraint wish to remain within a more localised structure.

The purpose of this letter is to
1. Outline the proposals that have emerged from the stakeholder discussions
2. Seek expressions of interest from clubs who wish to play at Step six or seven of the National League System

National League System
The National League System is a unique pyramid of leagues that links the grassroots game at Step seven to the professional game at Step one. For the pyramid to operate successfully and to provide the fluidity between the various steps there is mandatory promotion and relegation through Steps one to six as defined in the National League System regulations.

As a club in the National League System it is important to note that promotion and relegation is to the Step level and not a league as the placement of clubs is the sole responsibility of the Football Association.

All clubs that compete in the National League System must attain the required ground grading criteria for the Step that they play at, failure to do so will result in relegation.

The Football Association has publically stated its vision that by season 2020/21 the National League System will be a “pure pyramid” from Steps one to six based on one division at Step one, two divisions at Step two, four divisions at Step three, eight divisions at Step four, sixteen divisions at Step five and sixteen or twenty four divisions at Step six.

The South West Proposals
Following a series of stakeholder meetings, including meeting with clubs at designated club meetings or league AGMs, the feedback and views of all parties has been given very careful consideration by all of the stakeholders.

The stakeholders agreed that the objectives of any possible review were:-

1. To retain and develop a high level of senior football in Devon and Cornwall that is financially sustainable, encourages growth and provides opportunity for ambitious clubs.
2. To provide the opportunity for clubs to progress to Step five and for clubs at Step five to return to Step six. Over a period of time with increased promotion and relegation between step six and five it will improve the geographical landscape and movement between Step six and five will become more attainable.
3. Provide a competitive Step six competition for clubs in Cornwall whilst recognising that westerly clubs, particularly in Cornwall” may not go up due to the geography of the region and the associated financial impact may prevent promotion for some to Step five, however with increased movement between Step six and five in Devon over a period of time the number of clubs wishing to be prompted to Step five may well increase.
4. To provide robust and sustainable Step seven competitions that will see promotion and relegation to Step six leagues in the south-west.
5. To retain a structure that will enable clubs to compete in FA Competitions and to access Football Stadia Improvement Grants from the Football Foundation.
6. That any changes to the current structure should not disadvantage any clubs

The Proposals

1. The South West Peninsula League will run two Step six divisions (“the East division will predominately cover Devon and the West division mainly Cornwall”). The Champion Club of both Step six divisions will be promoted to Step five. Any Club failing to accept promotion will be in breach of National League System regulations and any penalty in respect of the clubs position in the NLS will be subject to the jurisdiction of the FA Leagues Committee.
2. The Cornwall Football Association will initially set up and run a Step seven league with a view to it becoming independent with the right structure and coordinators in the future.
3. The Devon Football Association will run two Step seven divisions (one in the south and central, one in the north and east). This is subject to enough clubs expressing interest in playing at step seven.
4. The proposal is that the new structure will be implemented for the start of the 2019/20 season with the promotion structure being applied from 2020/21 season.
5. Clubs who do not meet the required ground grading criteria for either Step six or seven will be required to sign an undertaking that full compliance will be achieved by 31st March in the second season of joining a league. Failure to meet the ground grading requirement will result in relegation.

What do you need to do as a club

As a club irrespective of which league you are currently a member of it is of vital importance that if you wish to be considered for membership of the new Step six or Step seven leagues you submit a written expression of interest along with your current ground grading classification by email to Laurence Jones, Head of National League System, at [email protected] by 31st December 2018. This is a requirement for all clubs even if you are currently playing in a step six or step seven league.

If you have questions or further enquiries as a result of this letter please can you make contact
Step Six Divisions – Devon and Cornwall – to Mr P Hiscox, Company Secretary, South West Peninsula League 45a Serge Court, The Quay Exeter Devon EX2 4EB
Step Seven Division – Devon FA – to Mr P Morrison Chief Executive Devon County FA Coach Rd Newton Abbot Devon TQ12 1EJ
Step Seven League – Cornwall FA- To Mrs D Aberdeen Chief Executive Cornwall FA Kernow House 15 Callywith Gate Launceston Rd Bodmin Cornwall PL31 2RQ

CLOSING DATE FOR EXPRESSIONS OF INTEREST IS 31ST DECEMBER 2018.

Yours sincerely

Laurence C Jones
Head of the National League System
The Football Association


Unicorn
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Sep 16, 2018, 8:52 AM

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Post #2 of 102 (37336 views)
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Re: [Richard Rundle] South West Peninsula League area from 2019-20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Yes this does need a thread of its own.
The comment about 16 or 24 teams at step 6 makes no sense at all to me.
On the very statement where they are suggesting another step 6 for SWP which will increase the number to 20. it is suggesting a possible reduction to 16.
I see an absence of any pattern.I think some clarification is required.


(This post was edited by Unicorn on Sep 16, 2018, 8:56 AM)


SWP-Phil
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Sep 16, 2018, 9:13 AM

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Re: [Unicorn] South West Peninsula League area from 2019-20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Steps 5 & 6 are a max of 20 clubs per division, Step 7 is a max (proposed not fully implemented) of 16 per division.



_______________________________________________

Follow the SW Peninsula League on Twitter: @swpleague

For all the News on the SW Peninsula League go to : www.swpleague.co.uk


Unicorn
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Sep 16, 2018, 9:57 AM

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In Reply To
Steps 5 & 6 are a max of 20 clubs per division, Step 7 is a max (proposed not fully implemented) of 16 per division.


My query is the number of division at step 6
That does not make sense to me.
I meant to say divisions my fault.


(This post was edited by Unicorn on Sep 16, 2018, 10:03 AM)


windydcfc
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Sep 16, 2018, 11:54 AM

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Post #5 of 102 (37204 views)
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In Reply To
Steps 5 & 6 are a max of 20 clubs per division, Step 7 is a max (proposed not fully implemented) of 16 per division.



The query is regarding the proposed amount of leagues at step 6. It’s either 16 or 24 & what will be the FA’s mindset in determining what they will go for. I assumed that it’ll be determined by the number of clubs per league i.e. 20 clubs per league=16 leagues & 16 clubs per league=24 leagues.
If the FA decides on 16 leagues, then surely the SWPL step 6 status is under threat? Because each step 5 league will have only a single step 6 league promoting into it! So the Western League Prem will have the Western League Div1. I know there’ll be 2 extra step 5 leagues, but by your own admission it won’t be in the SWPL!


SWP-Phil
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Sep 16, 2018, 11:59 AM

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Post #6 of 102 (37200 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] South West Peninsula League area from 2019-20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The FA have stated the SWP will have 2 Step 6's - whether they are 2 of 16 or 2 of 24 makes no difference as we are a unique geographical area.



_______________________________________________

Follow the SW Peninsula League on Twitter: @swpleague

For all the News on the SW Peninsula League go to : www.swpleague.co.uk


paulh66
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Sep 16, 2018, 12:20 PM

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Post #7 of 102 (37178 views)
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Re: [Richard Rundle] South West Peninsula League area from 2019-20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

 
The Football Association has publically stated its vision that by season 2020/21 the National League System will be a “pure pyramid” from Steps one to six based on one division at Step one, two divisions at Step two, four divisions at Step three, eight divisions at Step four, sixteen divisions at Step five and sixteen or twenty four divisions at Step six.


If they're still considering a 16 division step 6 then the creation of new divisions in the north west, east and south west sure is an odd way of going about it. Then again, as the FA can't even spell publicly correct, nothing would surprise me. But I assume 24 is now the goal for the "pure pyramid" (...now there's a phrase just waiting to haunt someone!)


(This post was edited by paulh66 on Sep 16, 2018, 12:23 PM)


shimtoan
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Sep 16, 2018, 3:03 PM

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Post #8 of 102 (37094 views)
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In Reply To
The Football Association has publically stated its vision that by season 2020/21 the National League System will be a “pure pyramid” from Steps one to six based on one division at Step one, two divisions at Step two, four divisions at Step three, eight divisions at Step four, sixteen divisions at Step five and sixteen or twenty four divisions at Step six.


If they're still considering a 16 division step 6 then the creation of new divisions in the north west, east and south west sure is an odd way of going about it. Then again, as the FA can't even spell publicly correct, nothing would surprise me. But I assume 24 is now the goal for the "pure pyramid" (...now there's a phrase just waiting to haunt someone!)

3 down, 2 up between Steps 5 & 6 if it's 24.

Wouldn't be a perfect pyramid anyhow, more like a cross between a sunhat and a sombrero



unless stated, all views are my own and are not the views of any other person, club, or organisation


windydcfc
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Sep 16, 2018, 3:25 PM

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Post #9 of 102 (37075 views)
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In Reply To
The FA have stated the SWP will have 2 Step 6's - whether they are 2 of 16 or 2 of 24 makes no difference as we are a unique geographical area.



If there’s 16 step 6 leagues & 2 of them are in the SWPL. Your area covers about 1/2 the Western league’s footprint. That’d mean that the other 14 step 6 league’s, would cover an area covered by 15 1/2 step 5 leagues! This surely can’t happen, can it?Crazy


Unicorn
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Sep 16, 2018, 7:43 PM

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Post #10 of 102 (36938 views)
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In Reply To
The FA have stated the SWP will have 2 Step 6's - whether they are 2 of 16 or 2 of 24 makes no difference as we are a unique geographical area.


It may make no difference to you but it does to the grand scheme of things.
How can there only be 16 step 6 divisions if two of them are in the SWP footprint.
It has to be 24 so the FA statement that there will be 16 or 24 is either incorrect or needs clarification.


ictoan
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Sep 16, 2018, 11:17 PM

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Post #11 of 102 (36812 views)
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Re: [Unicorn] South West Peninsula League area from 2019-20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Could 16 or 24 refer to a minimum and a maximum figure with latitude for any number in between?



There 'Ant no place like Sussex, until you goes above, 'Cause Sussex will be Sussex and Sussex wunt be druv.

The North begins at Gatwick.


paulh66
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Sep 17, 2018, 12:05 AM

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Post #12 of 102 (36779 views)
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Re: [Richard Rundle] South West Peninsula League area from 2019-20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Getting back to the SWP, from the outside looking in proposal 1 seems to be the biggie:

"The South West Peninsula League will run two Step six divisions (“the East division will predominately cover Devon and the West division mainly Cornwall”). The Champion Club of both Step six divisions will be promoted to Step five. Any Club failing to accept promotion will be in breach of National League System regulations and any penalty in respect of the clubs position in the NLS will be subject to the jurisdiction of the FA Leagues Committee."

Based on the communique in the opening post, I'd have thought any club considering expressing an interest in being part of the new set up would want clarity on the implications of this, specifically the penalties that a club declining promotion will face for so doing.

Furthermore, while I understand and agree that the south west faces particular challenges because of its location and infrastructure, if such penalties turn out to be less than those applied to clubs elsewhere in the country at step 6 then the FA is surely leaving itself open to challenge. Though I suppose the move up from step 6 to step 5 elsewhere isn't really that onerous, certainly in terms of geography, so the point is perhaps academic.


windydcfc
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Sep 17, 2018, 7:58 AM

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Post #13 of 102 (36698 views)
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In Reply To
Could 16 or 24 refer to a minimum and a maximum figure with latitude for any number in between?



It definitely says 16 or 24. There's nothing indicating that they mean between 16 & 24.


Unicorn
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Sep 17, 2018, 8:20 AM

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Post #14 of 102 (36686 views)
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Re: [paulh66] South West Peninsula League area from 2019-20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Getting back to the SWP, from the outside looking in proposal 1 seems to be the biggie:

"The South West Peninsula League will run two Step six divisions (“the East division will predominately cover Devon and the West division mainly Cornwall”). The Champion Club of both Step six divisions will be promoted to Step five. Any Club failing to accept promotion will be in breach of National League System regulations and any penalty in respect of the clubs position in the NLS will be subject to the jurisdiction of the FA Leagues Committee."

Based on the communique in the opening post, I'd have thought any club considering expressing an interest in being part of the new set up would want clarity on the implications of this, specifically the penalties that a club declining promotion will face for so doing.

Furthermore, while I understand and agree that the south west faces particular challenges because of its location and infrastructure, if such penalties turn out to be less than those applied to clubs elsewhere in the country at step 6 then the FA is surely leaving itself open to challenge. Though I suppose the move up from step 6 to step 5 elsewhere isn't really that onerous, certainly in terms of geography, so the point is perhaps academic.


Very true.
I feel if they ever get to their perceived perfect pyramid it will take 3/4 years to settle.
The perfect pyramid will have surely need to have different regulations for certain areas.
Being promoted from SCE step 6 to step 5 is a lot different to winning a Cornish based step 6 and being promoted to the Western league.


(This post was edited by Unicorn on Sep 17, 2018, 9:13 AM)


Unicorn
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Sep 17, 2018, 8:23 AM

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In Reply To

In Reply To
Could 16 or 24 refer to a minimum and a maximum figure with latitude for any number in between?



It definitely says 16 or 24. There's nothing indicating that they mean between 16 & 24.


Absolutely thats what its says.
So its either completely wrong or something from the FA that is beyond our understanding.


windydcfc
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Sep 17, 2018, 8:36 AM

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In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Could 16 or 24 refer to a minimum and a maximum figure with latitude for any number in between?



It definitely says 16 or 24. There's nothing indicating that they mean between 16 & 24.


Absolutely thats what its says.
So its either completely wrong or something from the FA that is beyond our understanding.



From what I've heard the FA wants to achieve the 24 step 6 leagues. i guess if they can't then they'll go for 16. I assume the FA wants a more straight forward relegation/promotion system. If they go for 16 league's, then it's 2(step 6) up 2 down(step 5). As Shimtoan's mentioned if it's 24 league's, then it'll be 2 up 3 down.


Unicorn
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Sep 17, 2018, 8:44 AM

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In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Could 16 or 24 refer to a minimum and a maximum figure with latitude for any number in between?



It definitely says 16 or 24. There's nothing indicating that they mean between 16 & 24.


Absolutely thats what its says.
So its either completely wrong or something from the FA that is beyond our understanding.



From what I've heard the FA wants to achieve the 24 step 6 leagues. i guess if they can't then they'll go for 16. I assume the FA wants a more straight forward relegation/promotion system. If they go for 16 league's, then it's 2(step 6) up 2 down(step 5). As Shimtoan's mentioned if it's 24 league's, then it'll be 2 up 3 down.


I think 16 is impossible.
Two for SWP. Two for NWCL. Then just 12 to cover everywhere else.
It must be an error. That might have been the original idea some time ago but as we stand now with new divisions either created or planned 16 seems a non starter.


windydcfc
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Sep 17, 2018, 9:08 AM

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In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Could 16 or 24 refer to a minimum and a maximum figure with latitude for any number in between?



It definitely says 16 or 24. There's nothing indicating that they mean between 16 & 24.


Absolutely thats what its says.
So its either completely wrong or something from the FA that is beyond our understanding.



From what I've heard the FA wants to achieve the 24 step 6 leagues. i guess if they can't then they'll go for 16. I assume the FA wants a more straight forward relegation/promotion system. If they go for 16 league's, then it's 2(step 6) up 2 down(step 5). As Shimtoan's mentioned if it's 24 league's, then it'll be 2 up 3 down.


I think 16 is impossible.
Two for SWP. Two for NWCL. Then just 12 to cover everywhere else.
It must be an error. That might have been the original idea some time ago but as we stand now with new divisions either created or planned 16 seems a non starter.



I did hear that it depends if the FA can find enough clubs. From what I've heard, for the FA to get to 24 step 6 leagues they would have to reduce the ground grading standards. The FA will consult with the leagues & ask no decision has been made on this. There's an FA meeting with the step 5/6 league's on the 30th September in Leicester. Whatever the plans from the FA's focus group, will be divulged then & I assume all this will be clarified.


(This post was edited by windydcfc on Sep 17, 2018, 10:55 AM)


philglossop
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Sep 20, 2018, 6:06 AM

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Re: [windydcfc] South West Peninsula League area from 2019-20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

And where are these clubs going to come from for the Step 7 Cornwall league?

ECPL Premier if you’re taking non reserve sides has just two teams. Polperro and St Stephens. Are we going to see teams jump up from either EC1/Duchy Premier just to fill a league??


Richard Rundle
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Sep 20, 2018, 8:22 AM

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Where are the teams coming from to fill any of the Step 7 divisions?

Currently I believe the Peninsula League has 52 teams, To fill even 2x18 & 3x16 needs 84. If you want the Step 6 divisions to be 20 teams you need 88. That means over 30 new teams need to step up.

A chunk of them may well be reserves, but the FA will want to see a decent proportion of first teams amongst the new contingent, and some of those you'd think were prime candidates in the past are that no longer - Upton Athletic, Parkway res, Csrharrack, etc.


SWP-Phil
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Sep 20, 2018, 9:08 AM

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Post #21 of 102 (35885 views)
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Waiting on the County FA's to publish their proposals and criteria, esp important in Devon will be if they go for 1 or 2 Step 7 Divisions, to go for 1 will reduce new teams needed.



_______________________________________________

Follow the SW Peninsula League on Twitter: @swpleague

For all the News on the SW Peninsula League go to : www.swpleague.co.uk


Sarumio
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Sep 20, 2018, 10:27 AM

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In Reply To
Waiting on the County FA's to publish their proposals and criteria, esp important in Devon will be if they go for 1 or 2 Step 7 Divisions, to go for 1 will reduce new teams needed.


Can you, in basic terms, please explain what is wrong with the current system in the South West?

A Step 6 division covering 2 English Counties, and two Step 7 divisions covering one English County each, and then 6 regional leagues below that each covering a smaller area still, with 3 in the East, 2 in the West and a straddling league between the two.

Seems to be a pretty standard Step 6 and 7 setup with an excellent (in comparison to many other areas of the country) Step 8 setup below.

So why are the FA and SWPL pushing to fix something that on the face of it does not appear to be broken?

Can you form any justification for why, what will effectively be the Cornwall County League and the Devon County League, in all but name, should be sitting at Step 6?


SWP-Phil
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Sep 20, 2018, 10:44 AM

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Re: [Sarumio] South West Peninsula League area from 2019-20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The two reasons are

1) The geography and (lack of) transport infrastructure of the region

2) The fact that the Cornish clubs will not (for whatever reason good or bad) take promotion to Step 5, whilst Devon based clubs cannot take promotion as they currently play in a division that is dominated by those Cornish clubs, hence 13/6 split and the 6 includes 3 West Devon clubs not including Argyle reserves who are ineligible to go up anyway.



_______________________________________________

Follow the SW Peninsula League on Twitter: @swpleague

For all the News on the SW Peninsula League go to : www.swpleague.co.uk


Sarumio
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Sep 20, 2018, 11:48 AM

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In Reply To
The two reasons are

1) The geography and (lack of) transport infrastructure of the region

2) The fact that the Cornish clubs will not (for whatever reason good or bad) take promotion to Step 5, whilst Devon based clubs cannot take promotion as they currently play in a division that is dominated by those Cornish clubs, hence 13/6 split and the 6 includes 3 West Devon clubs not including Argyle reserves who are ineligible to go up anyway.


OK so the Cornish clubs are blocking thr Devon clubs by being better than them and thus finishing highet than them?

I completely understand why Cornish clubs won't go up, and its not their fault at all. Its the FA's fault at not shrinking down the Western League and removing all the Wiltshire, Bristol and Gloucestershire sides from a league that in theory should also be catering for the far South Western counties (but at present does not).

A Western League covering Devon, Cornwall and Somerset alone is the answer, not creating County Leagues at Step 6.

A Cornwall County League at Step 6, in particular is not going to encourage or promote integration of the region into the wider non-league pyramid or solve the issue of Cornwish clubs snumbbing promotion to Step 5. Its going to become worse and the Cornish clubs will literally not leave their own county, except for FA Vase games in the future, with the geographic difference between Step 5 (Western) and Step 6 (Cornwall) becoming so great that, as I said in a previous post, Isolationism is the only result possible.

If anything its the Western League that needs splitting in two at Step 5 and 6, not the SWPL at 6 and 7.

PS - why do you think that Plymouth Argyle Reserves are inelligible for promotion to Step 5? Any specific reason why they would be?


SWP-Phil
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Sep 20, 2018, 11:56 AM

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Opinions - its why its such a great game - ohh and I don't disagree with all of yours by any means, but I have had to negotiate with those in London who of course always know best.

Argyle Reserves ineligible as Western Lge rules state no reserve teams may join (Reserves rule in the standardised wording being upto individual leagues to determine)



_______________________________________________

Follow the SW Peninsula League on Twitter: @swpleague

For all the News on the SW Peninsula League go to : www.swpleague.co.uk

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