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Liverpool County Premier League 2018-19

 

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Jimbo
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Jun 22, 2018, 12:49 PM

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Liverpool County Premier League 2018-19 Can't Post or Reply Privately

A document has surfaced on Twitter outlining the proposed constitution for next season's competition. This will no doubt be subject to change as the weeks progress.

Premier Division (Fifteen teams)

AFC Liverpool Reserves
Alder
Alumni
Bankfield OB (from Division One)
BRNESC (from Division One – formerly British Rail)
Custy's
East Villa
Knowsley North (from Division One)
Liverpool NALGO
MSB Woolton
Old Xaverians
South Sefton Borough
The Dock (from Division One – formerly Waterloo Dock Reserves)
Waterloo Dock
Waterloo GSOB

Division One (Ten teams)

BRNESC Reserves (formerly BRNESC)
City of Liverpool Reserves (from Division Two)
Edge Hill BCOB
FC Pilchy (from Division Two)
Liver Academy
Lower Breck Reserves
Quarry Bank Old Boys (from Division Two)
ROMA
South Garston
Warbreck

Division Two (Ten teams)

ACOL (from Liverpool Old Boys’ League)
AFC Kirkby
Botanic
Liverpool Hibernia (from I-Zingari Combination)
Marshalls (formerly Roby - uncertain as to how they link with the Marshalls WCL sides)
Mersey Harps (new)
MSB Woolton Reserves (new)
Old Xaverians Reserves (transferred from U18 division – formerly Rosemont Athletic)
Red Rum
Stoneycroft (from I-Zingari Combination)


Several notable points to discuss here...

At least five sides appear at this stage to have withdrawn: Lower Breck (to NWCFL), Aintree Villa (to West Cheshire League), Fantail, The Saddle and Waterloo GSOB Reserves (each presumably folded).

The situation concerning Aigburth PH is a little more uncertain. They have not been allocated a league place as of yet, and their future is described as being "in doubt". After their difficulties in raising teams towards the end of last season, this is not too great a surprise - still, it would be a pretty limp ending for an old club which has won five of the previous seven league titles.

Waterloo Dock Reserves have been allowed to join their first team in the Premier Division courtesy of a natty name change - to "The Dock". This leads on to the unusual situation at BRNESC - whose first and reserve sides have essentially switched places within recent seasons. Promoted British Rail, formerly BRNESC Reserves, have now changed their name to BRNESC. BRNESC themselves, playing a division below, are now to be known as BRNESC Reserves!

Another anomaly is the promotion of City of Liverpool Reserves, who have gained a place in Division One, ahead of AFC Kirkby and Botanic, despite an eighth-place finish.


(This post was edited by Jimbo on Jun 22, 2018, 12:59 PM)


simonsm
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Jun 23, 2018, 12:43 AM

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Re: [Jimbo] Liverpool County Premier League 2018-19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I see two teams up from the I Zingari Combination. That league Division 1 only had 5 teams in it last season, but they surely have to close it unless they find multiple new teams from somewhere?


Jimbo
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Jun 23, 2018, 11:14 AM

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Re: [simonsm] Liverpool County Premier League 2018-19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

At least one other side has left the Combination, to my knowledge. I understand however that they are confident of recruiting at least half-a-dozen new members prior to the start of the season. There might just be life in the old dog yet...


Steveb
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Jun 27, 2018, 7:16 PM

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Re: [Jimbo] Liverpool County Premier League 2018-19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

South Garston have tweeted that they’ve folded.




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Jimbo
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Jul 15, 2018, 1:20 PM

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Re: [simonsm] Liverpool County Premier League 2018-19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Returning to the topic of the I-Zingari Combination...

Their Full-time page has recently been updated, revealing that their single open-age division is set to be composed of four teams:


FC Garston
FC Northern
The Hares
Ullet Road Church


All with the exception of FC Northern are new recruits. This has all got a little silly now - clearly the other supposed interested parties failed to materialise.


simonsm
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Jul 15, 2018, 6:21 PM

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Re: [Jimbo] Liverpool County Premier League 2018-19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

It does show the lack of teams at that level just below the Liverpool County Premier League that aren't old boys, business league teams or part of a christian league... That compares quite poorly to most other towns and cities nearby like Warrington, Wigan (both massively rugby league towns foremost), Preston etc all with relatively thriving leagues at that level.

Liverpool's obsession with football is often quoted as a reason why other team sports don't take off much there - like Rugby League, Rugby Union, Basketball etc beyond the basic amateur level, but surely people aren't too bothered about playing the sport as much as watching it at Anfield and Goodison? Or is that unfair?


(This post was edited by simonsm on Jul 15, 2018, 6:22 PM)


blackdouglas
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Jul 15, 2018, 8:41 PM

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Post #7 of 38 (11095 views)
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Re: [simonsm] Liverpool County Premier League 2018-19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I feel exactly the same, the city of Liverpool's famed obsession for football barely gets out the gates of Goodison or Anfield.



Northwood, Threave Rovers, Arsenal, Rangers (the real ones, NOT qpr),Watford, Rochdale, queen of the south and a few others.


paulh66
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Jul 15, 2018, 8:56 PM

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In Reply To
I feel exactly the same, the city of Liverpool's famed obsession for football barely gets out the gates of Goodison or Anfield.


I wondered when that old chestnut would get an airing on here again. Liverpool's a football city, end of. Trying to disprove that by looking for some obscure stats below step 7 doesn't cut it.


blackdouglas
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Jul 15, 2018, 9:00 PM

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In Reply To

In Reply To
I feel exactly the same, the city of Liverpool's famed obsession for football barely gets out the gates of Goodison or Anfield.


I wondered when that old chestnut would get an airing on here again. Liverpool's a football city, end of. Trying to disprove that by looking for some obscure stats below step 7 doesn't cut it.


I'm not looking below Step 7, I'm looking at Steps 4, 5, & 6.



Northwood, Threave Rovers, Arsenal, Rangers (the real ones, NOT qpr),Watford, Rochdale, queen of the south and a few others.


paulh66
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Jul 15, 2018, 9:52 PM

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Re: [blackdouglas] Liverpool County Premier League 2018-19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Same point applies, obviously. Probably even more so given the costs of operating a club at the steps you mention - money doesn't grow on trees up there.

When I was growing up the local semi-pro scene up there was caught in between two stools - a poor imitation of the pro game but, in general, not as good (either in quality or value for money) as the local amateur/Sunday league scene. This was accentuated by the economic climate in the city and still holds true to an extent, though it's been good to see the likes of Cables, Marine, Bootle and even COLFC encouraging a new breed of fan in increasing numbers in recent years.

The pool of playing talent has always been there, it just gets spread beyond the city - factor in not only the likes of the West Cheshire League at the amateur level but also semi pro clubs in other neighbouring areas like North Wales and Cheshire, a fair few of whom are always happy to splash the cash on Liverpool lads.

But the point stands, the city generally lives and breathes the game to an extent matched by few other British cities - Glasgow, Manchester and Newcastle maybe. I love going back for this reason, and I can assure you the interest and conversation - both with friends and strangers - always turns to football and goes way beyond red or blue. Mercifully!


blackdouglas
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Jul 15, 2018, 9:58 PM

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Re: [paulh66] Liverpool County Premier League 2018-19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I'm not looking for a debate. Like or not it's my personal opinion



Northwood, Threave Rovers, Arsenal, Rangers (the real ones, NOT qpr),Watford, Rochdale, queen of the south and a few others.


paulh66
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Jul 15, 2018, 10:03 PM

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Re: [blackdouglas] Liverpool County Premier League 2018-19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I assumed you chimed into a forum discussion because you were happy to discuss it. A few factors there might help answer the original poster's question, even if they just sail over you.


simonsm
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Jul 15, 2018, 11:59 PM

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Re: [paulh66] Liverpool County Premier League 2018-19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

 
I've lived in Liverpool in the early 90s watching NWCL football at Bootle and Maghull and FA Vase games at Waterloo Dock, plus following Ashton United when they played in the area... but it was clear to me even then that there was an obsession beyond what I had experienced in Manchester about football... at least Liverpool and Everton. Lower league football meant Tranmere Rovers and that was that.

When I worked in Liverpool for 5 years in the early 2000s it was clear that there was a lot of activity at the Powerleague type of level, more than I had noticed 10 years earlier, but the semi-pro and amateur Saturday football didn't seem any different.

But as mentioned above, Sunday League seemed really strong back in the early 90s and I think continues. I mean Radio Merseyside used to read out lists of Sunday League results at about 5.30pm every Sunday afternoon, something I thought was bizarre at the time. So it shows that recreational football was strong, but Saturday football less popular, and so those what wanted it had to go elsewhere, North Wales, the outlying towns like Warrington, or into Manchester, or the Wirral and West Cheshire.

Last season I was following the Liverpool Premier League reasonably closely and saw the odd match, but the amount of postponements near the end of the season - as soon as the sun came out - seemed much higher than at the same level in other areas. On Twitter the clubs that cared were unhappy about the lack of respect for the league and the teams who did want to put in the effort. The apparent relative apathy for amateur Saturday football may have just been a coincidence, but it coincided with Liverpool being in the Champions League and some clubs were blaming the players for preferring armchair football than playing.


paulh66
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Jul 16, 2018, 1:32 AM

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Re: [simonsm] Liverpool County Premier League 2018-19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

You might be interested in this article the Independent carried last year in which the interviewees give first-hand insight into the changing landscape of the Liverpool Sunday and amateur leagues: https://www.independent.co.uk/...ins-fc-a7936001.html

I agree with you about the impact of the modern professional game (TV etc) though I'm not sure that has particularly affected Merseyside more than other places - I remember hearing reports of amateur clubs in Leicestershire struggling in a similar way when the Foxes won the league, for example. Rather, I contrast the current situation with the 80s, when Liverpool and Everton were far more successful than they are now, but the Sunday and amateur scene was thriving. As well as the County Comb, the local amateur Zingari, Business Houses and Shipping Leagues all ran with many divisions, as did the Sunday leagues - your mention of Radio Merseyside brings back some memories, and reminds me that the local Echo also had pages of these tables.

But semi-pro was always the poor relation, especially in 80s when the city was on its knees and people had to watch the pennies - why pay to watch semi-pro when you could not only go and see two of the top teams in Europe for just a few quid more, but you could also watch as good (or better) quality on the local parks for free? Many hundreds regularly did the latter.

As the names of some of those local leagues implies, the collapse of the docks and other traditional big employers hit the amateur scene hard. Added to which the cash-strapped council was forever selling off the land that amateur clubs played on, and grass roots facilities in general were dwindling. The knock-on effect for interest in semi-pro football was arguably minimal, but it didn't lead to an exodus to Anfield or Goodison either.

Over the last decade or so there have been some encouraging signs - the council is investing in facilities again, some of the local semi-pro clubs are enjoying decent increases in support (and a couple of new ones have sprouted up!), and so on. The amateur game on Merseyside will never return to its heyday and semi-pro will always be stuck in the middle to a degree, but that's down to a combination of factors rather than any further domination over people's lives by the big 2, imho.


(This post was edited by paulh66 on Jul 16, 2018, 1:58 AM)


simonsm
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Jul 23, 2018, 9:56 PM

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Re: [paulh66] Liverpool County Premier League 2018-19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Checking Full Time today...

Knowsley North are missing from Premier Div, so down to 14.

Div 1 and 2 are now only listing 5 teams each?

Div 1 - BRNESC Res, Edge Hill BCOB, Quarry Bank OB, ROMA, Warbreck

Div 2 - AFC Kirkby, Botanic, MSB Woolton Reserves, Marshalls Roby, Stoneycroft


mick
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Jul 23, 2018, 10:08 PM

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Re: [simonsm] Liverpool County Premier League 2018-19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Always seems to happen with this league. Not really worth checking until just before the fixtures are due to start.


simonsm
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Jul 26, 2018, 8:02 PM

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Re: [mick] Liverpool County Premier League 2018-19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Today showing in Div 2:

Finn Harps U21 - presume this is what was listed as "Mersey Harps" originally? Would that be the Irish team's U21 side then? If so I presume they have a Liverpool base or it will be some long way trips? So wonder where they will play?


paulh66
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Jul 26, 2018, 8:35 PM

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Re: [simonsm] Liverpool County Premier League 2018-19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Finn Harps U21s are the reigning champions of the Liverpool County FA U21 League and I think they field teams at lower age groups too. My guess is that this is their first venture into open age football.

I doubt they have any formal affiliation with the Irish club and a brief look at their Twitter account doesn't suggest otherwise, though I stand to be corrected on that.


Steveb
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Jul 26, 2018, 9:45 PM

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Finn Harps U21s are the reigning champions of the Liverpool County FA U21 League and I think they field teams at lower age groups too. My guess is that this is their first venture into open age football.

I doubt they have any formal affiliation with the Irish club and a brief look at their Twitter account doesn't suggest otherwise, though I stand to be corrected on that.


Finn Harps is quite a well established Liverpool club. I’ve certainly seen them previously in either the Liverpool County Premier League or the old I Zingari League. Think it’s just been a few years since they last had an open age men’s team playing Saturday football.




http://stevebthegroundhopper.blogspot.co.uk/




simonsm
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Jul 27, 2018, 7:33 PM

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Re: [Steveb] Liverpool County Premier League 2018-19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I found this on the Finn Harps (Ireland!) web site from when their Academy side played the Liverpool version in a pre-season friendly last year:

http://www.finnharps.com/fhfc/?p=5060

"A party of volunteers, parents and players from the Finn Harps Liverpool Junior Football Club will arrive in Ballybofey this evening. The Liverpudians who will be guests of our League of Ireland Premier Division Finn Harps F.C. will play a friendly fixture against an Academy team on this Saturday morning. Liverpool Finn Harps was setup up 40 years ago as a result of the large Irish population on Merseyside."

It also says that Liverpool Finn Harps Juniors were set up in 2001 to fill a void in youth football in West Derby.

"The creation of Finn Harps Juniors had filled a void in the area and it became evident that people had been waiting for a club which allowed children to play football in a safe and supervised manner."

"...Finn Harps JFC are represented in some of the strongest leagues across the north west but at the same time we ensure the level is relevant to the team and its current development to ensure enjoyment and development is still a priority."

It doesn't say what happened to the original Finn Harps (Liverpool) though, so I presume the open age team must have folded some years ago.

[EDIT]
In fact they are in FCHD: http://www.fchd.info/FINNHARL.HTM

2006-07 Founder members of Liverpool County Premier League
Three points deducted
2007 Left Liverpool County Premier League

Looks like they disappeared about 11 years ago.


(This post was edited by simonsm on Jul 27, 2018, 7:37 PM)


Steveb
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Jul 27, 2018, 7:48 PM

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In Reply To
[EDIT]
In fact they are in FCHD: http://www.fchd.info/FINNHARL.HTM

2006-07 Founder members of Liverpool County Premier League
Three points deducted
2007 Left Liverpool County Premier League

Looks like they disappeared about 11 years ago.


I saw them play a home game in Sept 2004 at a ground I've recorded as Mill Bank, Bankfield Road in Liverpool, then I saw them at home again two years later by which time they played at Thomas Lane. I have a note that they folded (at least in terms of men's Saturday football) after the 2006/7 season.




http://stevebthegroundhopper.blogspot.co.uk/




paulh66
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Jul 27, 2018, 8:02 PM

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Re: [simonsm] Liverpool County Premier League 2018-19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Good stuff. And mention of them hosting the Irish Finn Harps when they played Everton in the 1978 UEFA Cup finally reminds me where I'd heard of them before!


Jimbo
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Jul 29, 2018, 1:43 PM

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Re: [paulh66] Liverpool County Premier League 2018-19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The I-Zingari Combination now appears to have increased its membership to seven teams. In addition to the four mentioned previously, Empress, Widnes Dragons and a Litherland REMYCA side have been added to Full-time.

Full fixtures have been uploaded for the LCPL Premier Division, suggesting that its 14-team constitution is final (or at least as final as can be). Aigburth PH therefore do look to have folded, as do Knowsley North. The latter surprises me greatly, as when I caught one of their matches towards the end of last season they had a strong side and a large following. They furthermore seemed very enthusiastic about making the step up - something somewhere must have gone badly wrong.


simonsm
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Jul 29, 2018, 11:47 PM

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Re: [Jimbo] Liverpool County Premier League 2018-19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

 
> In addition to the four mentioned previously, Empress, Widnes Dragons and a Litherland REMYCA side have been added to Full-time.

Interesting... the original Widnes name was "The Dragons" or maybe "Widnes Dragons" when they were in the youth leagues. Although I'm sure at the time it was complicated what happened - was there another Widnes team that were to be set up then The Dragons became Widnes Vikings instead... memory is hazy now.

But this seems a coincidence that a Widnes Dragons appears from nowhere - is it Widnes's reserves/3rds? Joining the I Zingari I guess is better than joining the Warrington League as they would have to start several divisions lower there I would have thought, and considering there is just one flimsy division in I Zingari it may be the best attempt to launch higher?

I presume Litherland REMYCA is their 3rd team "A" as they were in the LCPL D2 the season before last. Their Reserves are in West Cheshire 2 now called Development.

No idea who Empress are? Is it a pub maybe?


Jimbo
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Jul 30, 2018, 12:21 PM

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In Reply To

Interesting... the original Widnes name was "The Dragons" or maybe "Widnes Dragons" when they were in the youth leagues. Although I'm sure at the time it was complicated what happened - was there another Widnes team that were to be set up then The Dragons became Widnes Vikings instead... memory is hazy now.

But this seems a coincidence that a Widnes Dragons appears from nowhere - is it Widnes's reserves/3rds? Joining the I Zingari I guess is better than joining the Warrington League as they would have to start several divisions lower there I would have thought, and considering there is just one flimsy division in I Zingari it may be the best attempt to launch higher?


This is going to be fun! Their website indicates that they are the same Widnes Dragons club which several years ago adopted the Vikings name and branding. Having played junior football under the Widnes Vikings tag, they reverted to their original title earlier this year. I would imagine that the I-Zingari side is an open-age offshoot from their youth section.

Widnes FC, the current NPL side, describe their origins as being in the Dragons club. They did however drop the "Vikings" from their name a number of seasons ago, and now administer junior teams of their own. It is all a little confusing. For a number of seasons, the entirety of the former Dragons setup would have been named Widnes Vikings, but the then-NWCFL side seems at some point to have split off as a separate entity.

My memory is also unfortunately pretty hazy...

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