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Home: Non-League Football Discussion: Restructuring Discussion:
FA statement on future pyramid

 

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paulh66
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Oct 4, 2018, 11:20 AM

Posts: 17579
Location: Surrey
Team(s): Tranmere Rovers, South Liverpool (the South will rise again), Cammell Laird

Post #276 of 287 (7039 views)
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Re: [drblues] FA statement on future pyramid [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

 
Local authorities have a lot of boxes ticked for them by their local football club but few support them in any meaningful way whatsoever. There are exceptions of course. More and more grounds though are moving out of town - if space is available that is. Others have no option but to ground share or fold. Even the community running track grounds being used are grinding out of time as that call for housing and cash to top up Council coffers overrides everything. It's a sorry situation and going forward will only get worse. There are areas of the country that have seen the loss of multiple grounds within a short radius and a short space of time.

Personally speaking and it's just my own opinion, I think Step 7 should be outside of the NLS and Step 6 should represent a half way house for facility requirements (including no overriding need for floodlights) on the way to full NLS membership at Step 5. Others may have their own opinion of course.


Subject to understanding in full the implications of what being outside the NLS would mean, then I agree that would help the situation. But it seems unlikely to happen and I don't see any other solution waiting to emerge over the horizon either. Mind you, the clubs who were compelled to meet these obligations have now either raised the money and done the work already or been booted out of the system because red tape prevented them from doing so, so it seems largely academic now.

Either way, external factors such as pressures on, and from, local authorities will always be present but that doesn't absolve the FA from its own responsibilities for shaping an environment in which clubs have been left with no option but to groundshare or fold.


drblues
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Oct 4, 2018, 12:05 PM

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Post #277 of 287 (7003 views)
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Re: [paulh66] FA statement on future pyramid [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Subject to understanding in full the implications of what being outside the NLS would mean, then I agree that would help the situation. But it seems unlikely to happen and I don't see any other solution waiting to emerge over the horizon either. Mind you, the clubs who were compelled to meet these obligations have now either raised the money and done the work already or been booted out of the system because red tape prevented them from doing so, so it seems largely academic now.


So what you are saying is give up. I would say that if promotion to Step 5 also entailed compliance to facility requirements then those who have already invested are not overtly penalised. If there are regional shortfalls of clubs then 'parachuting' those with facilities over those that cannot or refuse to get them should be on the table. The free flow of clubs that want to progress should be allowed. Clubs who want to participate in the NLS but cannot for whatever reason develop all the facilities, should be able to do so at Step 6.

The need for facilities at a standard will always cause discussion. We have that system for the time being and so it needs compliance, but I agree with those who say there should be room for some manoeuvre. For me Step 6 is the place for that in a half way house scenario.

Whether the governing body would ever move toward that I have no idea. And for me, the protection and creation of playing facilities around the country is what part of any Wembley windfall should be for.


(This post was edited by drblues on Oct 4, 2018, 12:09 PM)


paulh66
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Oct 4, 2018, 12:24 PM

Posts: 17579
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Post #278 of 287 (6985 views)
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Re: [drblues] FA statement on future pyramid [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I'm not for one second saying give up, I'm saying the FA seems to have given up - I see no solution forthcoming from it.


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Oct 4, 2018, 12:42 PM

Posts: 9564
Location: Lincoln
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Post #279 of 287 (6962 views)
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Re: [drblues] FA statement on future pyramid [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

Subject to understanding in full the implications of what being outside the NLS would mean, then I agree that would help the situation. But it seems unlikely to happen and I don't see any other solution waiting to emerge over the horizon either. Mind you, the clubs who were compelled to meet these obligations have now either raised the money and done the work already or been booted out of the system because red tape prevented them from doing so, so it seems largely academic now.


So what you are saying is give up. I would say that if promotion to Step 5 also entailed compliance to facility requirements then those who have already invested are not overtly penalised. If there are regional shortfalls of clubs then 'parachuting' those with facilities over those that cannot or refuse to get them should be on the table. The free flow of clubs that want to progress should be allowed. Clubs who want to participate in the NLS but cannot for whatever reason develop all the facilities, should be able to do so at Step 6.

The need for facilities at a standard will always cause discussion. We have that system for the time being and so it needs compliance, but I agree with those who say there should be room for some manoeuvre. For me Step 6 is the place for that in a half way house scenario.

Whether the governing body would ever move toward that I have no idea. And for me, the protection and creation of playing facilities around the country is what part of any Wembley windfall should be for.



Didn't the step 5/6 league's reject the idea of dumbing down the ground grading requirements at the meeting in Leicester on Sunday. So if the league's don't want it, then no matter what you or anyone wants or thinks on here. It's dead in the water isn't it?


Yeading89
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Oct 4, 2018, 1:33 PM

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Post #280 of 287 (6899 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] FA statement on future pyramid [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I agree that the step six leagues should be a half way house.If all clubs know that once they reach step six with or without lights etc they will not be promoted if they win the league unless A They want to go up B The work is done before they are promoted,Not all clubs want to reach the heights of semi pro level they cannot afford. Whats wrong with a mix of lights/no lights at step six.
The ambitious clubs will do whats necessary to climb. Their choice.


drblues
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Oct 4, 2018, 3:09 PM

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Post #281 of 287 (6834 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] FA statement on future pyramid [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Didn't the step 5/6 league's reject the idea of dumbing down the ground grading requirements at the meeting in Leicester on Sunday. So if the league's don't want it, then no matter what you or anyone wants or thinks on here. It's dead in the water isn't it?


Yes. But this idea was not on the table. As part of an announced scheme there would be a purpose to any decision change in the future.


drblues
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Oct 4, 2018, 5:29 PM

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Post #282 of 287 (6720 views)
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Re: [Yeading89] FA statement on future pyramid [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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I agree that the step six leagues should be a half way house.If all clubs know that once they reach step six with or without lights etc they will not be promoted if they win the league unless A They want to go up B The work is done before they are promoted,Not all clubs want to reach the heights of semi pro level they cannot afford. Whats wrong with a mix of lights/no lights at step six.
The ambitious clubs will do whats necessary to climb. Their choice.


Indeed. That is the scenario I would promote.


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Oct 4, 2018, 6:31 PM

Posts: 9564
Location: Lincoln
Team(s): Derby County FC England Borussia Mönchengladbach

Post #283 of 287 (6640 views)
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Re: [drblues] FA statement on future pyramid [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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In Reply To
Didn't the step 5/6 league's reject the idea of dumbing down the ground grading requirements at the meeting in Leicester on Sunday. So if the league's don't want it, then no matter what you or anyone wants or thinks on here. It's dead in the water isn't it?


Yes. But this idea was not on the table. As part of an announced scheme there would be a purpose to any decision change in the future.



So the 1-2-4-8-16-16 will come into effect for season 20/21? But the dumbing down of the ground grading at step 6 will be looked at as part of the FA's continual restructure/development?


drblues
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Oct 4, 2018, 7:11 PM

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Post #284 of 287 (6609 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] FA statement on future pyramid [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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In Reply To

In Reply To
Didn't the step 5/6 league's reject the idea of dumbing down the ground grading requirements at the meeting in Leicester on Sunday. So if the league's don't want it, then no matter what you or anyone wants or thinks on here. It's dead in the water isn't it?


Yes. But this idea was not on the table. As part of an announced scheme there would be a purpose to any decision change in the future.



So the 1-2-4-8-16-16 will come into effect for season 20/21? But the
dumbing down of the ground grading at step 6 will be looked at as part of the FA's continual restructure/development?


Who knows?


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Oct 4, 2018, 8:04 PM

Posts: 9564
Location: Lincoln
Team(s): Derby County FC England Borussia Mönchengladbach

Post #285 of 287 (6569 views)
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Re: [drblues] FA statement on future pyramid [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Didn't the step 5/6 league's reject the idea of dumbing down the ground grading requirements at the meeting in Leicester on Sunday. So if the league's don't want it, then no matter what you or anyone wants or thinks on here. It's dead in the water isn't it?


Yes. But this idea was not on the table. As part of an announced scheme there would be a purpose to any decision change in the future.



So the 1-2-4-8-16-16 will come into effect for season 20/21? But the
dumbing down of the ground grading at step 6 will be looked at as part of the FA's continual restructure/development?


Who knows?



I thought you might have an idea?


markust
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Oct 5, 2018, 6:07 PM

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Post #286 of 287 (6144 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] FA statement on future pyramid [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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I'm sure a league south of Manchester/Liverpool & including the WMRL area makes sense. Maybe the MFL will take some clubs from the NCEL, if it loses it's West Midlands clubs & we'll get a de-facto Central/East Midlands/Coastal League anyway.


If you are talking about adding a few of the NWC clubs to the WMFL then I would totally disagree. Leagues are best set up focused on a city or group of cities. This would leave clubs on the edge of Manchester and Liverpool travelling across large distances of countryside into midlands cities of Wolverhampton and Birmingham, where currently there are plenty of teams on their doorstep.

On the other hand, if you were talking of splitting the current NWC Prem area in half and going North Shropshire, Staffs, Cheshire up to South Manchester, and then North Manchester, West Yorks, Merseyside and Lancs up to Cumbria then you could have something that would work.


(This post was edited by markust on Oct 5, 2018, 6:09 PM)


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Oct 5, 2018, 6:54 PM

Posts: 9564
Location: Lincoln
Team(s): Derby County FC England Borussia Mönchengladbach

Post #287 of 287 (6110 views)
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Re: [markust] FA statement on future pyramid [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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In Reply To
I'm sure a league south of Manchester/Liverpool & including the WMRL area makes sense. Maybe the MFL will take some clubs from the NCEL, if it loses it's West Midlands clubs & we'll get a de-facto Central/East Midlands/Coastal League anyway.


If you are talking about adding a few of the NWC clubs to the WMFL then I would totally disagree. Leagues are best set up focused on a city or group of cities. This would leave clubs on the edge of Manchester and Liverpool travelling across large distances of countryside into midlands cities of Wolverhampton and Birmingham, where currently there are plenty of teams on their doorstep.

On the other hand, if you were talking of splitting the current NWC Prem area in half and going North Shropshire, Staffs, Cheshire up to South Manchester, and then North Manchester, West Yorks, Merseyside and Lancs up to Cumbria then you could have something that would work.



The WMRL is too small & doesn't heave enough suitable clubs to sustain a step 5 league. The Herefordforshire clubs in that league want to move to the Hellenic & they may get their wish if the Hellenic loses it's Home Counties teams. If the FA want's to create a Midlands League in the West Midlands, then using the M6 corridor south of Manchester makes sense to me. The MFL Prem would be covered by the MFL1 & EMCL area/teams

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