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Air strikes on Syria

 

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Climate Change
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Apr 14, 2018, 10:16 PM

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Post #1 of 33 (3907 views)
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Air strikes on Syria Can't Post or Reply Privately

Right or wrong?



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kirby knitters
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Apr 14, 2018, 10:18 PM

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Post #2 of 33 (3905 views)
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Re: [Climate Change] Air strikes on Syria [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Right.


PaulC
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Apr 15, 2018, 7:46 AM

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Post #3 of 33 (3815 views)
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Re: [kirby knitters] Air strikes on Syria [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Right.


Why are chemical weapons(which the Syrians are merely alleged to have used) wrong, whilst bombs which blow people to bits or result in people dying a long lingering death, or being badly maimed for life, OK?

Is it right to attack the enemies of ISIS?

Haven't we learned from our middle east adventures in Libya and Iraq?

Why was Theresa May too afraid to seek the approval of our elected parliament?

Why do we think we are the world's policeman?

Why are we attacking a nation which offers no threat to us?

This is gesture bombing. We do as the madman Trump requests, we tell Putin what we are planning and no doubt ask his advice on what we should bomb. We probably hit a few empty warehouses.

But it keeps the increasingly dumbed-down electorate happy whilst solving absolutely nothing. Innocent people will keep on being killed in Syria.

EDIT
Just listening the news. After bombing Syria, Theresa May is now asking for the alleged chemical attack to be investigated. You couldn't make it up!


(This post was edited by PaulC on Apr 15, 2018, 7:49 AM)


TroubleAtMill
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Apr 15, 2018, 8:30 AM

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Post #4 of 33 (3804 views)
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Re: [PaulC] Air strikes on Syria [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Chemical Weapons - most governments have signed treaties banning them = bad weapon = must respond, even if use alleged and not proven.

Traditional explosive bombs etc not banned for government use = good = shoulder shrug.

Air Strikes = easy (good publicity) option = who cares about repucusions later, we need good publicity now.


prorege
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Apr 15, 2018, 10:07 AM

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Post #5 of 33 (3779 views)
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Re: [kirby knitters] Air strikes on Syria [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Right.

Wrong.



R.S.Cavendish
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Apr 15, 2018, 10:15 AM

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Post #6 of 33 (3774 views)
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Re: [prorege] Air strikes on Syria [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Very, very wrong. It's nothing to do with us. We are a third rate nation trying to be big boys and girls. Why not bomb all other conflicts. Leave it alone.


PaulC
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Apr 15, 2018, 2:09 PM

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Post #7 of 33 (3703 views)
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Re: [PaulC] Air strikes on Syria [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

And a few more questions:

If we knew where Assad was hiding his chemical weapons why did we wait for him to use them again?

As recently as November 2017 the OPCW said the building that was hit had no chemical weapons. Why didn't we inform OPCW of their existence?

Why was the bombing ordered before the OPCW investigation took place?


TroubleAtMill
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Apr 15, 2018, 3:21 PM

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Post #8 of 33 (3667 views)
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Re: [PaulC] Air strikes on Syria [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Don't ask questions, it's not seemly. Unimpressed


007Dale
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Apr 15, 2018, 9:35 PM

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Post #9 of 33 (3554 views)
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Re: [PaulC] Air strikes on Syria [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Right.


Why are chemical weapons(which the Syrians are merely alleged to have used) wrong, whilst bombs which blow people to bits or result in people dying a long lingering death, or being badly maimed for life, OK?

Is it right to attack the enemies of ISIS?

Haven't we learned from our middle east adventures in Libya and Iraq?

Why was Theresa May too afraid to seek the approval of our elected parliament?

Why do we think we are the world's policeman?

Why are we attacking a nation which offers no threat to us?

This is gesture bombing. We do as the madman Trump requests, we tell Putin what we are planning and no doubt ask his advice on what we should bomb. We probably hit a few empty warehouses.

But it keeps the increasingly dumbed-down electorate happy whilst solving absolutely nothing. Innocent people will keep on being killed in Syria.

EDIT
Just listening the news. After bombing Syria, Theresa May is now asking for the alleged chemical attack to be investigated. You couldn't make it up!


Personally, I think there should have been a debate and vote in Parliament. It would force Jeremy Corbyn to take a position and (probably) put him at odds with a significant chunk of his party.

As to whether we should bomb - probably not going to make a difference either way. But you can assume that on the quiet Putin is not going to be overly keen on Assad putting Russia in this position, so perhaps some pressure will be applied by him, although of course they’ll never admit it.

We aren’t the worlds policemen - this is a role the UN should undertake.

So in conclusion and on balance - probably wrong. But, May missed a political trick to pass the blame of inaction on the opposition by having a vote in Parliament.


windydcfc
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Apr 16, 2018, 7:35 AM

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Post #10 of 33 (3437 views)
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Re: [Climate Change] Air strikes on Syria [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Right! But it’s too late to save the people from being wiped out by the Assad regime, Russia & Iran. It’s one of the saddest things I’ve witnessed from afar in years!



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


prorege
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Apr 16, 2018, 10:28 AM

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Post #11 of 33 (3399 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] Air strikes on Syria [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

If Assad is somehow removed from power, who do you expect to be running Syria in a few years time?


leohoenig
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Apr 16, 2018, 11:11 AM

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Post #12 of 33 (3379 views)
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Re: [prorege] Air strikes on Syria [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Government? when was the last time the USA/UK + anyone else we could rope in, started a war* which led to a stable government soon afterwards?

(*or waded into an existing conflict)



Fat AND Pompous.
The proof that you can have too much of a good thing
Now blogging at http://www.leohoenig.com



(This post was edited by leohoenig on Apr 16, 2018, 11:12 AM)


prorege
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Apr 16, 2018, 11:27 AM

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Post #13 of 33 (3367 views)
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Re: [leohoenig] Air strikes on Syria [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Precisely . . . the advocates of armed involvement are either slow learners or fast forgetters. Iraq? Libya? Afghanistan?


windydcfc
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Apr 16, 2018, 11:31 AM

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Post #14 of 33 (3362 views)
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Re: [prorege] Air strikes on Syria [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
If Assad is somehow removed from power, who do you expect to be running Syria in a few years time?



Personally I think Syria, Lebanon & Iraq should have their borders redrawn along religious & ethnic lines. The Sykes-Picot agreement has been a complete failure & the arbitrary lines created at the end of WWI should be scrapped! Have the Super & Regional powers got the will to sort the Middle East out?



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


(This post was edited by windydcfc on Apr 16, 2018, 11:32 AM)


prorege
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Apr 16, 2018, 11:56 AM

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Post #15 of 33 (3352 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] Air strikes on Syria [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

You haven't answered the question.


windydcfc
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Apr 16, 2018, 1:04 PM

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Post #16 of 33 (3319 views)
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In Reply To
You haven't answered the question.



There needs to be regional governors. With a overall control in the hands of the UN. They need to do something similar to what they did in Bosnia & Kosovo!



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


prorege
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Apr 16, 2018, 1:19 PM

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Post #17 of 33 (3300 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] Air strikes on Syria [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

That may be what is needed, but is not what the situation will be.

Your suggestion also contradicts your suggestion that boiders should be redrawn on ethnic lines. On that basis most of Syrian should be part of a Sunni Caliphate.


windydcfc
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Apr 16, 2018, 1:29 PM

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Post #18 of 33 (3286 views)
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In Reply To
That may be what is needed, but is not what the situation will be.

Your suggestion also contradicts your suggestion that boiders should be redrawn on ethnic lines. On that basis most of Syrian should be part of a Sunni Caliphate.



Their should be an Alawite, Sunni, Kurdish & Druze. The Christian areas could be amalgamated with the Christian areas in Lebanon. Or as distasteful as it is, a population exchange! Because these people have been killing each other since the dawn of time & it’s never going to end!



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


AnotherGlassboy
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Apr 16, 2018, 2:34 PM

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Post #19 of 33 (3247 views)
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Re: [prorege] Air strikes on Syria [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
If Assad is somehow removed from power, who do you expect to be running Syria in a few years time?


The Isthmian League? It is South East of London, after all...


Fanatic
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Apr 16, 2018, 3:39 PM

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Post #20 of 33 (3210 views)
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Re: [PaulC] Air strikes on Syria [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

If we knew where Assad was hiding his chemical weapons why did we wait for him to use them again?


This is probably the most pertinent question for me, especially after they were used earlier in the conflict.

I can't think of a messier war that Syria. There don't seem to be any good guys (with the possible exception of the Kurds, and they are only in the north-eastern fringes of the country) so backing any of the groups involved will mean siding with another awful group.


Part-Timer
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Apr 16, 2018, 4:57 PM

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Post #21 of 33 (3168 views)
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Re: [Fanatic] Air strikes on Syria [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

You couldn't make it up:

Syria bombs Syria so we punish them by..... bombing Syria. Crazy

Russia says there is no evidence of a chemical attack and then says that Britain did it. Crazy

Can't we get on with something where everyone knows what they're doing. Like Brexit, perhaps. Tongue


Northumbrian
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Apr 16, 2018, 5:21 PM

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Post #22 of 33 (3151 views)
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Re: [Part-Timer] Air strikes on Syria [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

And whilst the Syrian Civil War grinds on the U.N. estimates 5,000 civilians have died in Yemen over the last two years due to Saudi Arabian airforce bombing.
Of course this is perfectly okay because they bought the planes, bombs etc. from the U.S.A., Britain and France.


Part-Timer
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Apr 16, 2018, 5:22 PM

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Post #23 of 33 (3147 views)
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Re: [Northumbrian] Air strikes on Syria [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
And whilst the Syrian Civil War grinds on the U.N. estimates 5,000 civilians have died in Yemen over the last two years due to Saudi Arabian airforce bombing.
Of course this is perfectly okay because they bought the planes, bombs etc. from the U.S.A., Britain and France.

And they have got lots of oil.


HantsLondoner
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Apr 16, 2018, 5:39 PM

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Post #24 of 33 (3136 views)
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Re: [Part-Timer] Air strikes on Syria [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Was it right?

Unfortunately, I don't know.
Only those responsible in the Conservative party know the facts, they have just gone ahead and done it, without even consulting Parliament, and without telling the people..... was it necessary to do it so quickly?

All the questions asked in this thread are valid questions. I'd like to see the answers to them. I expect they'll come out in time, well after the effects are known.

May seems to think that her party represents the entire country and therefore no consultation is necessary before she implements her interpretation of the facts.

That latter phrase reminds me of another ongong project that she's currently 'implementing'. It seems to be a common trait of her government.
Again, her interpretation of the facts.

If she wants the support of Parliament and the country it would be good to work with them occasionally.




If you're going to/been to a Hampshire Premier League match, I'd really appreciate you filling in a questionnaire - available in the Groundhopping/General section, or just PM me for a copy. Thanks.

(This post was edited by HantsLondoner on Apr 16, 2018, 5:46 PM)


Northumbrian
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Apr 16, 2018, 5:46 PM

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Post #25 of 33 (3130 views)
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Re: [Part-Timer] Air strikes on Syria [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

 

Can't we get on with something where everyone knows what they're doing. Like Brexit, perhaps. Tongue

——————————————————————————————
In a way our tiny token effort in the bombing of Syria is linked to Brexit! Trump and Macron were obviously going ahead anyway and Theresa May must have decided she better join in to keep America happy. There was no time to debate in Parliament or anything else as the bombing was timed so it could be announced on prime time US TV. However, as we will be desperate to try and get a trade deal with the USA post-Brexit she was scared France would be seen as a better friend than ourselves and decided we had to be involved too.

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