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Home: Non-League Football Discussion: Other British Isles Football:
Bonnyrigg Rose next to go Senior ?

 

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fitbadaft
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Mar 8, 2018, 1:28 PM

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Bonnyrigg Rose next to go Senior ? Can't Post or Reply Privately

It would appear that another Junior domino may be about to fall and a big one at that. Bonnyrigg have called an EGM on March 21st on the clubs ‘strategic direction’.


Tykeoldboy
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Mar 8, 2018, 2:04 PM

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Re: [fitbadaft] Bonnyrigg Rose next to go Senior ? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

If both Clydebank and Bonnyrigg do both make the jump from juniors to seniors then either the SJFA will either bury it's head in the sand and hope this is the last and it goes away or they ask themselves what can they do to either stop more clubs moving from junior to senior ranks. Governing bodies being what they are, the SJFA will probably ignore this, do nothing and hope it goes away.


prorege
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Mar 8, 2018, 5:27 PM

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Re: [fitbadaft] Bonnyrigg Rose next to go Senior ? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

There's a lot going on behind the scenes across various cklubs and in the "corridors of power".

As many as 20 East Junior clubs could be willing to quit the Association if they cannot gain licensed status any other way. Whether this leads to a "take-over" of the East of Scotland league, or leads to the SFA rescinding the "Senior" requirement for achieving a licence, remains to be seen.

Another possible outcome is that the East Region Juniors become the feeder league for the Lowland league with the East of Scotland seniors integrated into it.

I expect that by 2020 there will, one way or another, be effective integration of the East Juniors and Seniors.

Clydebank may be more likely to apply to the South of Scotland, get turned down, and blow the whiole mess wide open by appealing to the SFA. The gover ing body would theh have to decide if they really want a pyramid or not.

Furthernore, a team from not far North of the Tay will seek licensed status in the near future. We'll have to see how the mandarins sort out that one, given that the HFL is 2 clubs above pyramid capacity and there are no feeders.


Cowden Andy
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Mar 8, 2018, 5:39 PM

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Re: [prorege] Bonnyrigg Rose next to go Senior ? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

If Bonnyrigg do move over that will mean that the sides who have won the East Super League in the last 3 years have left the East Region which you would imagine would be a worry to the blazers on the East Region.

As you say the Bankies could russle things up if they applied and got knocked back from the south, would maybe push the SFA into having to do something about a West feeder for the LL.

Your one about the team from the north of the Tay is an interesting one.


Cowden Andy
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Mar 8, 2018, 5:41 PM

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Re: [fitbadaft] Bonnyrigg Rose next to go Senior ? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
It would appear that another Junior domino may be about to fall and a big one at that. Bonnyrigg have called an EGM on March 21st on the clubs ‘strategic direction’.


A possible big derby for WW.


crankie2
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Mar 18, 2018, 12:53 PM

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Re: [prorege] Bonnyrigg Rose next to go Senior ? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

` The governing body would then have to decide if they really want a pyramid or not.. `

That is a pretty `romantic` view of Scottish Football. Your`governing body`is now and has always been dominated by the combined influence of 60 clubs in the SPFL and Highland league ... neither of whom particularly want new competition ... but have had to accept the `absolute rock-bottom minimum` due to pyramid campaign, upgrading of junior leagues, and the subsequent movement of many clubs from ordinary (closeted) junior, amateur and youth clubs into `Community Club Developmental` status. There are now just under 600 clubs in the SFA `version` of that ... Quality Mark. Fairly obviously, you cannot `develop` as a serious football club unless you can COMPETE ... so where do these clubs go when they wish to begin to do so ? Again, fairly obviously, `SFA` is not the answer to that question .. ..

SFA does not now and never has organised `league` football. If the SJFA or anyone else wish to see something considerably different from the `dross` we have endured since the collapse of real football in this country .. they must approach the Scottish Government, to get football properly organised in Scotland .. they are the senior body responsible for `Sport` in Scotland.

SFA is a company limited by guarantee in Scotland, responding only to the wishes of its membership ... 89 clubs and a few affilliated associations. Again, fairly obviously, without the support of a majority of those members, SFA have no `locus of responsibility` in this area. It really is time to get REAL here ...



prorege
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Mar 18, 2018, 1:01 PM

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Re: [crankie2] Bonnyrigg Rose next to go Senior ? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

You have taken my comment entirely out of context. It was made in the context of Clydebank being unsuccessful im an application to the South of Scotland league.

You are also mistaken in saying the SFA has no role in league football - they established the Lowland League and dictated that it should run in parallel with the Highland League. The HL chose not to obey the SFA instructions regarding league size.

Should Clydebank, or Banks o' Dee for that matter, seek a place within the SFA pyramid structure, then the governing body will need to respond in some way.


crankie2
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Mar 18, 2018, 5:45 PM

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Re: [prorege] Bonnyrigg Rose next to go Senior ? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I`m certain you are wrong on Lowland ... when SJFA stood back from `pyramid`(they were in on the first meetings turn of Millenium), this was the only possible option for merger of south and east club ambitions towards the play-off dictated by SPFL. The league is formed and run entirely by its members ... same as the SFA.

Neither would I have the same confidence over `Clydebank` or `x, y and z` ... SFA has ignored such clubs for almost 150 years and can simply go on doing so. But, it is entirely up to the members of Highland, South and East leagues who they accept or reject applications from. To change that ... we need to get rid of this `system` ..


Harry West
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Mar 19, 2018, 5:07 PM

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Re: [prorege] Bonnyrigg Rose next to go Senior ? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I have been keeping an eye on another web site about clubs potentially switching from Junior to Senior status.
There is huge speculation about tens of clubs making the switch or making serious investigations about the pros and cons of such a move.
It appears that the East of Scotland League is preparing for a significant influx of East region Juniors plus the possibility of also creating a West of Scotland Division.
I understand that the deadline for applications to the EOS is the end of this month. Perhaps matters will become clearer then.


prorege
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Mar 19, 2018, 5:30 PM

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Re: [Harry West] Bonnyrigg Rose next to go Senior ? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

You are quite right - things will soon become clearer.

One unintended consequence could be difficulties for some long-established East of Scotland league sides. The likes of Eyemouth and Coldstream have accepted Kelty as a "one off" - how they would cope in a league where they may get hammered and have to travel longer distances on a regular basis remains to be seen.

Also, some of the early "movers and shakers" for the Lowland League stand to lose their privileged position if the number of teams going over to the seniors rises.


leohoenig
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Mar 20, 2018, 12:09 AM

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Re: [prorege] Bonnyrigg Rose next to go Senior ? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

So you are saying that Kelty may not be a one off, and that other Junior sides could come in at East of Scotland level and walk straight through?
At East Kilbride at the start of the season, there was a feeling they had to go up this year, as Kelty would be too strong as competition next year



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PaulC
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Mar 20, 2018, 12:12 AM

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Re: [leohoenig] Bonnyrigg Rose next to go Senior ? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
So you are saying that Kelty may not be a one off, and that other Junior sides could come in at East of Scotland level and walk straight through?
At East Kilbride at the start of the season, there was a feeling they had to go up this year, as Kelty would be too strong as competition next year


They can walk straight through, but only one per season. It could be a long wait for some of them.


prorege
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Mar 20, 2018, 7:32 AM

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Re: [leohoenig] Bonnyrigg Rose next to go Senior ? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Current situation in the East Juniors is that the following teams are all rumoured to be considering jumping ship:

Dundonald Bluebell, St Andrews's United, Hill of Beath Hawthorn, Camelon, Sauchie, Musselburgh Athletic, Broxburn Athletic, Bo'ness United, Linlithgow Rose, Edinburgh United, Bonnyrigg Rose, Newtongrange Star, Tranent, Haddington Athletic, Penicuik Athletic.

Dalkeith have already declared that they are switching to the Seniors.

In the West rumours are floating about:

Kello Rovers, Girvan, Troon, Kilwinning Rangers, Cumnock, Clydebank, Port Glasgow, Kirkintilloch Rob Roy, Rossvale, Gartcairn, Arthurlie, Whitletts Vics, Carluke Rovers, Dunipace

Presumably these are interested in one of the nascent West of Scotland League proposals.

If this happens it is more a case of the Juniors taking over the senior structure than joining it.









BelfastBlue
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Mar 20, 2018, 10:10 AM

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Re: [prorege] Bonnyrigg Rose next to go Senior ? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I have a friend who is at Bo'ness and he tells me that while some want to progress to the EoS and then LL, most of the committee are happy where they are, so he does not expect any announcement to this end.


Tykeoldboy
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Mar 20, 2018, 2:31 PM

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Re: [BelfastBlue] Bonnyrigg Rose next to go Senior ? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Is there now a strong case for reorganisation within Scottish football with junior leagues being part of the pyramid structure, under the SoS, EoS, North Caledonian and proposed WoS? There would have to be a proviso of there not being automatic promotion from junior leagues which might keep clubs onboard, since they would know that they wouldn't be forced into a league that would put an extra financial burden on them.


prorege
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Mar 20, 2018, 3:01 PM

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Re: [Tykeoldboy] Bonnyrigg Rose next to go Senior ? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

You are not seriously suggesting that Juniors would go below SOS and NCAL are you? They are geographically disparate. No Juniors in SOS footprint, no Juniors in NCAL.


mick
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Mar 20, 2018, 4:12 PM

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Re: [prorege] Bonnyrigg Rose next to go Senior ? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The SoS footprint covers the Annan-Kilmarnock-Stranraer triangle so a large % of Ayrshire Juniors do fall within it.

Nonetheless, I am amazed that it is apparently being suggested that said Juniors should go below the SoS.


Tykeoldboy
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Mar 20, 2018, 4:29 PM

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Re: [mick] Bonnyrigg Rose next to go Senior ? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

That's my lack of knowledge of Scottish non-league football's strength at each level. Having senior and junior league run in parallel and all feeding into the HL and LL wouldn't work, so that leaves merging junior league with seniors leaving those junior clubs that which wish to remain juniors at a the lower levels. Having a senior setup and a junior setup just complicates matters and I can't see the blazers that run the various organisations giving up their positions.


prorege
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Mar 20, 2018, 4:41 PM

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Re: [mick] Bonnyrigg Rose next to go Senior ? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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The SoS footprint covers the Annan-Kilmarnock-Stranraer triangle so a large % of Ayrshire Juniors do fall within it.

Nonetheless, I am amazed that it is apparently being suggested that said Juniors should go below the SoS.

Aye, but Bonnyton are only in it because there is no West of Scotland Senior league. The SOS really is a D and G League.



dottirofhod
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Mar 20, 2018, 5:28 PM

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Re: [prorege] Bonnyrigg Rose next to go Senior ? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Before anyone asks Dumfries and Galloway.
GAGAUE.




From July 1, 2018 to June 30, 2019 = 60 / 55 / 5. (You know my rules) @ 17 /09 /2018.
Benelux. Bel = 0-0-0- ( 0-0-0 ) - ( 5-0-2-1 ) UPDATED. Ta Reg. Lux = 0-0. Neth = 0-0-0 - ( 4 - 2 ).
Scotland. Senior. 0-0-0-0-(0-0)-(1 IHS - 2 BT & LT)-(NofS 0).
Junior.(0-0-0)- (0-0-1-0)-(0-0)-(0).
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blackdouglas
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Mar 20, 2018, 6:59 PM

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Re: [prorege] Bonnyrigg Rose next to go Senior ? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
The SoS footprint covers the Annan-Kilmarnock-Stranraer triangle so a large % of Ayrshire Juniors do fall within it.

Nonetheless, I am amazed that it is apparently being suggested that said Juniors should go below the SoS.

Aye, but Bonnyton are only in it because there is no West of Scotland Senior league. The SOS really is a D and G League.




The South of Scotland League really should consider a name change to "The South Western Counties League."

There is also the fact that it is by far the weakest of the 6 main Organisations, probably on a par with the North Caledonian. A good few clubs literally do play on park, or school, pitches.



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TroubleAtMill
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Mar 22, 2018, 4:49 AM

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Re: [fitbadaft] Bonnyrigg Rose next to go Senior ? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Bonnyrigg season ticket holders have supposidly voted to leave junior football for senior football in Scotland at their season ticket holders meeting.

Vote was 42-1 to leave, amongst attendees, according to Scottish football forum posts.


prorege
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Mar 22, 2018, 7:29 AM

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Re: [TroubleAtMill] Bonnyrigg Rose next to go Senior ? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Not necessarily for next season, however.

Perhaps more significantly, the SJFAs consultation with member clubs has produced a sizeable majority wanting the SJFA to join the "Pyramid" system. Again this does not mean it will happen overnight. It may mean that some individual clubs will hold back on jumping until a full-scale merger is agreed.


LLD
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Mar 22, 2018, 11:22 AM

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Re: [prorege] Bonnyrigg Rose next to go Senior ? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The think that is interesting me is that junior clubs are looking enviously at the supposed benefits of joining the East of Scotland or Lowland League which include better player insurance, provision of medical kit etc and the potential for more prize money.

The thing is that it's easy to provide some of these things to 13 or 16 clubs than it would be to 160 junior clubs in the SJFA's case or even 60-odd in the East or West Region, so if there is a large scale move of clubs then some of these perceived advantages may disappear.

I still think that the geography and population spread in our country lends itself to a pyramid with three regions sitting under the SPFL, which is obviously the current junior structure. Rather than trying to merge the juniors into the flawed SFA system with it's ludicrous north-south split at the Tay, they should be doing the opposite and slotting 'senior' clubs in at appropriate levels of the junior structure.



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prorege
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Mar 22, 2018, 11:33 AM

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Re: [LLD] Bonnyrigg Rose next to go Senior ? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I agree entirely regarding the 3 regions.

If the SJFA had engaged with the process at the outset in 2012 then that's how things might have turned out.

The senior clubs and the small number of others that have engaged with the SFA pyramid should be big enough to admit they got it wrong, rip it up, and start again on the basis of 3 regions.

But we all know they wont do that.

As for the money, again I agree. The SFA subsidise the senior leagues to a much greater degree than they do the juniors but the cake will need to be sliced more thinly if more clubs are eligible.

Of course, another sensible option would be to allow Junior clubs to become licensed without demanding that they join a "Senior" league.

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