Non League Matters - The Continuation of Tonys english Football Site 

  Main Index MAIN
INDEX
Search Posts SEARCH
POSTS
Who's Online WHO'S
ONLINE
Log in LOG
IN

Home: All Other Football Interests: All other football:
VAR to be used for England v Germany

 



Tykeoldboy
First Team Star


Nov 8, 2017, 4:20 PM

Posts: 2281
Location:
Team(s): Doncaster Rovers, Everton, Mablethorpe

Post #1 of 17 (852 views)
Shortcut
VAR to be used for England v Germany Can't Post or Reply Privately

VAR (Video Assistant Referee) system will be used for the England v Germany friendly as part of the FAB 2 year trial. I saw the system in action last weekend during the Koln - Hoffenheim Bundesliga game when the ref awarded a penalty. The review took about a minute and proved the referee right, but it did break up the flow of the game more so than awarding and taking the penalty usually would.


007Dale
First Team Sub

Nov 9, 2017, 7:07 AM

Posts: 1048
Location:
Team(s): St Albans City, Leicester City

Post #2 of 17 (776 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Tykeoldboy] VAR to be used for England v Germany [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The amount of injury time will soon regularly top ten-minutes.


jrev61
Man City Transfer Target!

Nov 9, 2017, 2:12 PM

Posts: 7242
Location: Northampton
Team(s): None

Post #3 of 17 (712 views)
Shortcut
Re: [007Dale] VAR to be used for England v Germany [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
The amount of injury time will soon regularly top ten-minutes.


When this has been used in televised matches in Italy and Germany the referees never seem to add much for the use of VAR, even when the stoppage is quite lengthy.


scottywalds
First Team Star


Nov 10, 2017, 11:58 PM

Posts: 1912
Location: Boston
Team(s): Boston United

Post #4 of 17 (587 views)
Shortcut
Re: [007Dale] VAR to be used for England v Germany [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
The amount of injury time will soon regularly top ten-minutes.


Regularly? How many games actually require its use?


paulh66
Qatar World Cup bid member!


Nov 11, 2017, 12:09 AM

Posts: 15776
Location: Surrey
Team(s): Tranmere Rovers, South Liverpool (the South will rise again), Cammell Laird

Post #5 of 17 (583 views)
Shortcut
Re: [scottywalds] VAR to be used for England v Germany [In reply to] Can't Post or

Should it be added on anyway? Maybe a bit, I guess, but it's just like a ref consulting with his liner, none of that's added on usually.


Isaac
Man City Transfer Target!

Nov 13, 2017, 12:26 PM

Posts: 9345
Location: Kent
Team(s): ABMU

Post #6 of 17 (431 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Tykeoldboy] VAR to be used for England v Germany [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
VAR (Video Assistant Referee) system will be used for the England v Germany friendly as part of the FAB 2 year trial. I saw the system in action last weekend during the Koln - Hoffenheim Bundesliga game when the ref awarded a penalty. The review took about a minute and proved the referee right, but it did break up the flow of the game more so than awarding and taking the penalty usually would.


Sadly for the Irish it arrived 24 hours too late.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think the VAR was required at all at Wembley? That would probably be the case in most games but if there is a contentious decision they're there.


Ropemaker
Chelsea Transfer Target

Nov 13, 2017, 1:12 PM

Posts: 6068
Location: Surrey
Team(s): Hailsham Town

Post #7 of 17 (414 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Isaac] VAR to be used for England v Germany [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Sadly for the Irish it arrived 24 hours too late.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think the VAR was required at all at Wembley? That would probably be the case in most games but if there is a contentious decision they're there.

This has sort of raised one of the issues for me

VAR can review penalties. So if a penalty is incorrectly awarded the VAR can reverse the decision.

Genuine question. What if a penalty is not awarded where it should be. Can the VAR help there or, well, not? After all, play might still be going on with the ball possibly in the net at the other end by the time the VAR has decided anything.



Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get you.


dottirofhod
Man City Transfer Target!


Nov 13, 2017, 1:52 PM

Posts: 11719
Location: The North. 'Ich hassen lehmkopfs'
Team(s): Crewe Alex and obviously England.(Unlike a lot on here)

Post #8 of 17 (404 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Ropemaker] VAR to be used for England v Germany [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Sadly for the Irish it arrived 24 hours too late.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think the VAR was required at all at Wembley? That would probably be the case in most games but if there is a contentious decision they're there.

This has sort of raised one of the issues for me

VAR can review penalties. So if a penalty is incorrectly awarded the VAR can reverse the decision.

Genuine question. What if a penalty is not awarded where it should be. Can the VAR help there or, well, not? After all, play might still be going on with the ball possibly in the net at the other end by the time the VAR has decided anything.
==============================================

Yes the VAR re penalties goes both ways.
Have been Italian games where VAR has occurred , play does not go on , the referee goes to the touchline to study the VAR.
==============================================




Eng. 0- 0- 0- 0 -0- ( 0- 0) - ( I=0- N=0-S= 0 )- (IN =0 -IS=1 - NN=1- NS=0 - SC=-0-SC=0 ) - (CC= 1- 0-0 -0- 0-0- 0- 0-0-0-0- 0-0 -0) - ( 0- 0- 0 -0- 0- 0 -0- 0- 0- 0- 0- 0 -0 -0 -0 -0- 0). TBC.

Benelux.
B. 0-0-0 - ( 0- 0 - 0 -0) - ( 0- 2 - 0 - 0)
L. 0 -0.
N. 0 -0 -0.

Iberia.
P. 0 - 1.


Sp. 1 - 1.


I have impeccable credentials.







dottirofhod
Man City Transfer Target!


Nov 13, 2017, 2:00 PM

Posts: 11719
Location: The North. 'Ich hassen lehmkopfs'
Team(s): Crewe Alex and obviously England.(Unlike a lot on here)

Post #9 of 17 (400 views)
Shortcut
Re: [dottirofhod] VAR to be used for England v Germany [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

From Wiki.


There are 4 types of calls that can be reviewed.[1]
  • Goals and whether there was a violation during the build up
  • Penalty decisions
  • Red card decisions (note that second yellow cards are not reviewable)
  • Mistaken identity in awarding a red or yellow card

The standard for overturning the referee's original decision is that there has been a "clear error", sometimes expanded to "clear and obvious error".[2]
The process begins with the video assistant referee(s) and the assistant video assistant referee (AVAR) reviewing the play in question on a bank of monitors in the video operation room (VOR) with the assistance of the replay operator (RO). This can be triggered by the referee requesting the review or by the VAR conducting a "check" to see if he or she should recommend a review to the referee. If the VAR finds nothing during the check, then communication with the referee is unnecessary, which is called a "silent check". If the VAR believes there has been a potential clear error, he or she will contact the referee with that judgment. The referee can then either (a) change the call on the advice of the VAR or (b) conduct an on-field review (OFR) by going to a designated spot on the sideline, called the referee review area (RRA), to review the video with the help of the review assistant (RA) or (c) decide that he/she is confident in the original call and not conduct an OFR. The referee is allowed to stop play to reverse a call or conduct an OFR, but is not supposed to do so when either team is engaged in good attacking possibility.
The official signal for a video review is by the referee making the outline of a rectangle with his index fingers (indicating a video screen). This precedes both any OFR as well as any change in the original call. Players who demand a video review by making the rectangle motion are to be cautioned with a yellow card. Players who enter the area where the referee conducts an OFR are also to be cautioned with a yellow card, and team officials who do so are to be dismissed.
There are guidelines the referee and the VAR should follow in conducting a video review. For example, slow motion should only be used for "point of contact" offences, such as physical offences and handballs. Regular speed should be used to determine the intensity of an offence and whether a handball was deliberate. Reviews for goals, penalty kick decisions, and red cards for denial of an obvious goal scoring opportunity cover the period back to the beginning of the "attacking possession phase" (APP), when the attacking team first gained possession of the ball or restarted play. Other reviews only cover the incident itself.
The VAR will be either a current or former referee. The VAR may be located in the stadium where the match is being played or at another location.



Eng. 0- 0- 0- 0 -0- ( 0- 0) - ( I=0- N=0-S= 0 )- (IN =0 -IS=1 - NN=1- NS=0 - SC=-0-SC=0 ) - (CC= 1- 0-0 -0- 0-0- 0- 0-0-0-0- 0-0 -0) - ( 0- 0- 0 -0- 0- 0 -0- 0- 0- 0- 0- 0 -0 -0 -0 -0- 0). TBC.

Benelux.
B. 0-0-0 - ( 0- 0 - 0 -0) - ( 0- 2 - 0 - 0)
L. 0 -0.
N. 0 -0 -0.

Iberia.
P. 0 - 1.


Sp. 1 - 1.


I have impeccable credentials.







dottirofhod
Man City Transfer Target!


Nov 13, 2017, 2:10 PM

Posts: 11719
Location: The North. 'Ich hassen lehmkopfs'
Team(s): Crewe Alex and obviously England.(Unlike a lot on here)

Post #10 of 17 (393 views)
Shortcut
Re: [dottirofhod] VAR to be used for England v Germany [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

'' The referee can then either (a) change the call on the advice of the VAR or (b) conduct an on-field review (OFR) by going to a designated spot on the sideline, called the referee review area (RRA)'',




========================================================




The VAR will be either a current or former referee. The VAR may be located in the stadium where the match is being played or at another location. ??



Eng. 0- 0- 0- 0 -0- ( 0- 0) - ( I=0- N=0-S= 0 )- (IN =0 -IS=1 - NN=1- NS=0 - SC=-0-SC=0 ) - (CC= 1- 0-0 -0- 0-0- 0- 0-0-0-0- 0-0 -0) - ( 0- 0- 0 -0- 0- 0 -0- 0- 0- 0- 0- 0 -0 -0 -0 -0- 0). TBC.

Benelux.
B. 0-0-0 - ( 0- 0 - 0 -0) - ( 0- 2 - 0 - 0)
L. 0 -0.
N. 0 -0 -0.

Iberia.
P. 0 - 1.


Sp. 1 - 1.


I have impeccable credentials.







jrev61
Man City Transfer Target!

Nov 13, 2017, 2:26 PM

Posts: 7242
Location: Northampton
Team(s): None

Post #11 of 17 (387 views)
Shortcut
Re: [dottirofhod] VAR to be used for England v Germany [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
'' The referee can then either (a) change the call on the advice of the VAR or (b) conduct an on-field review (OFR) by going to a designated spot on the sideline, called the referee review area (RRA)'',




========================================================




The VAR will be either a current or former referee. The VAR may be located in the stadium where the match is being played or at another location. ??


In the Bundesliga the VAR referee(s) are located in Cologne. I assume this is so they can't be got at by irate fans.


Ropemaker
Chelsea Transfer Target

Nov 13, 2017, 3:17 PM

Posts: 6068
Location: Surrey
Team(s): Hailsham Town

Post #12 of 17 (368 views)
Shortcut
Re: [jrev61] VAR to be used for England v Germany [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Thanks for the replies.

I'm reserving judgement on VAR until I've seen it working. However "The referee is allowed to stop play to reverse a call or conduct an OFR, but is not supposed to do so when either team is engaged in good attacking possibility" would still appear to allow the possibility of the ball ending up in the net at the other end before the ref can reverse a non-penalty award.



Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get you.


Tykeoldboy
First Team Star


Nov 13, 2017, 3:50 PM

Posts: 2281
Location:
Team(s): Doncaster Rovers, Everton, Mablethorpe

Post #13 of 17 (359 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Ropemaker] VAR to be used for England v Germany [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Using new technology is all well and good but there are 2 officials running the lines and 2 more stood next to the goal, at least in UEFA club competitions. It seems that the line & goal officials tend to go with what decisions the referee gives. How often do you see a linemen (they are called referees assistants these days) put up a flag for a throw in after the referee has already pointed to which way a throw should go?


PaulC
Man City Transfer Target!


Nov 13, 2017, 5:20 PM

Posts: 9440
Location: Ayrshire, Midlothian
Team(s): AFC Darwen, Troon, Ayr Utd, Burnley

Post #14 of 17 (336 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Tykeoldboy] VAR to be used for England v Germany [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Apart from whether or not the ball has crossed the goalline I would steer clear of VAR. Crossing or not crossing the line is a matter of fact - fouls, penalties are a matter of opinion and judgment.

In Rugby Union we increasingly see decisions based on slo-mo of infringements not visible to the naked eye at live speed. I don't see that as a good thing.

There is already provision for righting cases of mistaken identity after a match has been played - is it necessary within the game?


(This post was edited by PaulC on Nov 13, 2017, 5:22 PM)


mip
Man City Transfer Target!


Nov 13, 2017, 5:51 PM

Posts: 9204
Location: Odense
Team(s): Portsmouth, OB, Svendborg fB, Tved B

Post #15 of 17 (319 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Tykeoldboy] VAR to be used for England v Germany [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Using new technology is all well and good but there are 2 officials running the lines and 2 more stood next to the goal, at least in UEFA club competitions. It seems that the line & goal officials tend to go with what decisions the referee gives. How often do you see a linemen (they are called referees assistants these days) put up a flag for a throw in after the referee has already pointed to which way a throw should go?


In games where goal line referees are also in operation the officials will be communicating using their headsets and noone will know exactly to what extend linesmen and goal line referees influence the referee's decisions.


Isaac
Man City Transfer Target!

Nov 13, 2017, 7:27 PM

Posts: 9345
Location: Kent
Team(s): ABMU

Post #16 of 17 (286 views)
Shortcut
Re: [PaulC] VAR to be used for England v Germany [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Apart from whether or not the ball has crossed the goalline I would steer clear of VAR. Crossing or not crossing the line is a matter of fact - fouls, penalties are a matter of opinion and judgment.

In Rugby Union we increasingly see decisions based on slo-mo of infringements not visible to the naked eye at live speed. I don't see that as a good thing.

There is already provision for righting cases of mistaken identity after a match has been played - is it necessary within the game?


There is provision for rescinding red and yellow cards but that's about it, the farcical penalty in the NI v Switzerland game can't be changed after the game.


PaulC
Man City Transfer Target!


Nov 13, 2017, 11:02 PM

Posts: 9440
Location: Ayrshire, Midlothian
Team(s): AFC Darwen, Troon, Ayr Utd, Burnley

Post #17 of 17 (245 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Isaac] VAR to be used for England v Germany [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
There is provision for rescinding red and yellow cards but that's about it, the farcical penalty in the NI v Switzerland game can't be changed after the game.


Once you get into reviewing penalty claims/awards you create all sorts of problems for yourself. How many times have you listened to 'experts' disagreeing over penalty awards or denials? I would go by the referee's judgement even if they sometimes get it wrong.

 
 


The Soccerlinks Hit List

free hit counters

Search for (options) HOSTED BY SUMMIT SOCCER v.1.2.3