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Home: Non-League Football Discussion: Restructuring Discussion:
FA's Proposed Structure of the NLS 2017/18 and 2018/19

 

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jrev61
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Nov 4, 2017, 9:46 AM

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Post #1126 of 1161 (6578 views)
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well, it's taken 45 pages but we can finally blame the French for the problems with the pyramid Crazy


And by extension the EU as well.
Nice to know where the blame lies.
Smile


windydcfc
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Nov 4, 2017, 10:22 AM

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Post #1127 of 1161 (6534 views)
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well, it's taken 45 pages but we can finally blame the French for the problems with the pyramid Crazy



Yep, the problem with the pyramid, lays fully & squarely at the feet of the cheese eating surrender monkeysWinkLaugh


windydcfc
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Nov 5, 2017, 2:37 PM

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I contacted Nick Robinson at the FA & he has confirmed that promotion from step 5. Will be the 14 champions & the 12 best runners up.


burgesshillbee
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Nov 5, 2017, 2:48 PM

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Re: [Sarumio] FA's Proposed Structure of the NLS 2017/18 and 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Yes Sidelsham have lights but not sure if they actually work. Also unsure if they have seats and if so do they have enough, not been there for some time.


Dazzla84
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Nov 8, 2017, 11:45 AM

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I contacted Nick Robinson at the FA & he has confirmed that promotion from step 5. Will be the 14 champions & the 12 best runners up.


Yep, when Nick Gray (Morpeth manager) was interviewed by BBC Newcastle after they beat Shildon he pretty much said that his focus is just on winning the league and even though he does not like the idea of promotion to the evo-stik, he's basically said that they have to accept it whether they like it or not.

If so, it might be a good idea for Morpeth and the NL runners-up to consolodate in the NPL D1 North and allow more NL clubs to come up in the next few years which would create a decent cluster of clubs in the NPL North division and hopefully drive the NPL boundary further northwards in the future. The only problem though is with the quality of the squad which is a similar situation to South Shields, its very likely they could race through that division. only difference between Shields and Morpeth is that the former already have the infrastructure in place and gates on average almost 6 times higher.

IMO there are only 3 clubs in the NL Division 1 that already have the proper infrastructure in place, those being Consett, Bishop Auckland and Shildon (the latter of those 3 are currently building their ground up to NPL grading requirements), Consett also have the added caveat of an 400+ average gate, nearly double what Morpeth currently get


(This post was edited by Dazzla84 on Nov 8, 2017, 12:00 PM)


Richard Rundle
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Nov 8, 2017, 12:16 PM

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Post #1131 of 1161 (5224 views)
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Re: [Dazzla84] FA's Proposed Structure of the NLS 2017/18 and 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

And of course Consett is twenty-odd miles further South than Morpeth.


shimtoan
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Nov 8, 2017, 3:02 PM

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Post #1132 of 1161 (5090 views)
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...If so, it might be a good idea for Morpeth and the NL runners-up to consolodate in the NPL D1 North and allow more NL clubs to come up in the next few years which would create a decent cluster of clubs in the NPL North division and hopefully drive the NPL boundary further northwards in the future...

I'll say it again, but we'll get southern drift as long as the NPL retains 2 Division 1s and the problem will only get worse when the new league (presumably Midlands) has 2 Division 1s.

There'll be 5 leagues - NL, NWC, NCE, ML, UCL - covering those 8 relegation spots, and best case scenario is 7 promotions from those 5.



Dec's gon' bring kit to ya


genesimmons
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Nov 9, 2017, 11:18 PM

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Post #1133 of 1161 (4549 views)
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In Reply To

In Reply To

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Could it be any clearer that there is a need to promote the top 10 from the NL?


No it could not be any less clear.


Let me explain it to you then.

NL clubs are reluctant to move up because individual promoted clubs would be isolated geographically in NPLN.

Were 10 clubs to be promoted then the isolation of former NL clubs is vastly reduced. They would therefore be more willing to accept promotion. Added to that, of course, such a block promotion is justifiable and desirable on ability grounds and goes a little towards a fairer geographical balance of clubs at Step 4.

Does that help?


No it doesn't. Let me explain it to you...

The Northern League clubs have been dangled carrots like this many times before and have chucked it back in the faces of the people offering it to them.

They refused to become part of the Pyramid in the 80s and become a direct feeder (alongside the current three Step 3 leagues) to the Conference when it was formed.
In 2006 they were offered 3 promotion places, but only 1 went up.
In 2008, the FA offered the NL extra places yet again, stating that 4 of the top 6 could all go up together. Only Durham City went up.
5 teams have gone up to the NPL in the last 20 years, and with all the expansions and extra promotion places this is by far the worst uptake of promotion by any Step 5 league by a country mile.
Had they promoted 1 club a year for the past 20 years, NL area clubs wouldn’t be so isolated in the NPL now.

They have repeatedly isolated themselves further and further. They have continually brought this on themselves.

The Northern League’s clubs’ unwillingness to move up has also largely caused the southern drift of the NPL’s boundary. Every time the Northern League fails to promote, a team with the best PPG at Step 4 is reprieved or an extra club or clubs from Step 5 leagues with the best PPG is promoted instead, and it’s usually southern sides being reprieved or promoted, causing all the transfers from the Southern League to the NPL Div One South.

The ONLY reason the likes of Romulus, Sutton Coldfield, Peterborough Sports, Alvechurch, Bedworth, Corby and Spalding are in the NPL is because the likes of Whitley Bay, West Auckland, Dunston, Consett, Marske, Shildon and Guisborough aren’t there in their place!

The FA have tried and tried to help the Northern League clubs progress, and they’ve turned their noses up every single time. They simply do not deserve 10 promotion places in one go now. It’s nonsense and utterly ridiculous. We are past that option with the Northern League now!

Excellent post. I lived in the north east for 25 year and know the northern league well and am so annoyed with the league thinking it deserves special treatment. The north east aint that isolated. Its simply because clubs dont go up. If clubs had refused promotion year on year from other league like ncel clubs would also be isolated. Folk need a push so change is made for the better. I did not feel brave enough to move oit of my parents until it was either move away or be on the dole. That push was a change for the better for me. The fa are doing the same. Not always perfect but they've seen the rot set in up there and clubs with big high and mighty egos trying to dictate national football structures. Ncel and nwcl dont do this. If the northern league wins the legal challenge (not sure what that is yet) they should be booted out the pyramid



You wanted the best, you got the best


Ashton49Pieman
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Nov 11, 2017, 4:21 AM

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Post #1134 of 1161 (3563 views)
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Re: [genesimmons] FA's Proposed Structure of the NLS 2017/18 and 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I fully agree with the points made in this posting. although my knowledge of various ground grading requirements and area footprints are probably not as good as most on this site, I would like to express views on several points.

1. If the Northern League do not want to participate fully in The Football Pyramid and the standard is such that it monopolises the FA Vase to the detriment of the other entrants from the rest of the country, then perhaps a sensible compromise would be for continued FA affiliation but only allowed entry to the FA Cup (This may mean a few weighing of options) - But Blyth, Darlington, Spennymoor, South Shields all seem to have prospered by grasping their chances

2. The FA seem to be progressing the Pyramid well albeit slowly and in earlier days quite a few leagues had to lose some of their better clubs to make it happen.

For the record I have always favoured the 1-2-4-8-16 system and a Severn to Wash divide line with North/ Midlands above and South West /South East below. My view being that this splits the country equally for club travel purposes

I would also like to see 2 Central or Midland Leagues Div 1 East and West as the next step to establish the 1-2-4-8

3. The applicants seen for next seasons restructure appear to be be good quality and to prevent a drift South of any Midland Leagues would suggest that to get the general format in place, the FA May consider a slightly more flexible attitude to applicants from sparser areas
For instance Clubs in the Cumbria catchment eg Penrith,9transfer to NW counties Premier and Whitehaven, Cleatror Moor and Carlisle City who play in several leagues could be brought together ( give the area identity) under NW Counties Div 1 North with Lancashire clubs and a higher line for NW counties Div1 South, Similarly in the North East several good clubs seem to want progress even if the Northern League do not So if necessary a North Eastern League could be formed on Northern League area - running side by side for those who want to progress and those who dont. With a Northern Counties East still in place, this would leave more capacity for 2 Midland Divs1 West and East with Midland applicants

This would then allow for Midland Div 1 West and East to evolve with no encroachment south beyond Worcestershire, across to Lincs / East Anglia
Finally, the South West does seem better catered for these days to allow sides to progress to their level and plans for for East Anglia/ South East should benefit this region also

i just feel that if you get the correct Pyramid system in place then despite any initial problems they will even out and find their correct level over time






























slowly and a sensible system seems to materialising


(This post was edited by Ashton49Pieman on Nov 11, 2017, 8:18 AM)


trevor56
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Nov 11, 2017, 8:40 AM

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Post #1135 of 1161 (3482 views)
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Forcing teams to take promotion not a good idea. Here's a completely different idea... Scrap national premier and operate with just north and south. Filter excess teams down to create extra divisions. Nobody forced to take promotion and if you do your travelling will be reduced even at top level of nonleague which would if course be national north or south


Atavistic
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Nov 11, 2017, 9:55 AM

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Post #1136 of 1161 (3411 views)
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I disagree that it's a bad idea to force promotions at Step 5 level for two reasons: one, as recently discussed, it's essentially become necessary so as to force the Northern League to actually participate in the pyramid rather than keeping all their teams at Step 5 and monopolising the FA Vase; two, while some teams will struggle with compulsory promotion, the fact that this is the case may encourage such teams to practice financial prudence rather than spending loads of money on a squad when they know they're not really going to be able to survive if they get promoted (just think of the London Colney situation from last season: they never seemed to have any intention of promotion, yet spent loads of money on their squad to win the league regardless; if compulsory promotion at Step 5 can prevent such situations from happening, I'm all for it).

Of course, if teams really think it's going to be a problem, they can just write to the FA to say so before the season starts to try and exempt themselves from the process in special circumstances (I wonder if we will ever find out if anyone did so this season, though I wonder how it would affect promotions if a team finishing in the top 2 were exempted because of their circumstances).



Yaxley FC Programme Editor - Please PM me with any feedback/constructive criticism you may have about my work

2017/18 (including Pre-Season):

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kivo
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Nov 11, 2017, 11:37 AM

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Post #1137 of 1161 (3321 views)
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Re: [Atavistic] FA's Proposed Structure of the NLS 2017/18 and 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

- Promoted the Northern League three divisions
- Rename the NPL as the Midland League
- Have eight Step 5 leagues based on the regions of England (barring London)

Step 1 - Conference National
Step 2 - Conference North, Conference South
Step 3 - Northern League Premier, Midland League Premier, Southern League Premier, Isthmian League Premier
Step 4 - Northern League (x2), Midland League (x2), Southern League (x2), Isthmian League (x2)
Step 5 - North-East League Premier, North-West Counties Premier, Yorkshire and Humber League Premier, West Midlands Regional League Premier, East Midlands Counties League Premier, South Western League Premier, South-Eastern League Premier, Eastern League Premier
Step 5 - North-East League (x2), North-West Counties (x2), Yorkshire and Humber League (x2), West Midlands Regional League (x2), East Midlands Counties League (x2), South Western League (x2), South Eastern League (x2), Eastern Counties League (x2)

I think we can all agree the above is perfect with absolutely no flaws whatsoever and should be implemented as soon as possible.


(This post was edited by kivo on Nov 11, 2017, 11:38 AM)


dottirofhod
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Nov 11, 2017, 12:06 PM

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Post #1138 of 1161 (3300 views)
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Re: [kivo] FA's Proposed Structure of the NLS 2017/18 and 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

''I think we can all agree the above is perfect''.


Including the 2 Step 5's ?


Tongue



Eng. 0- 0- 0- 0 -0- ( 0- 0) - ( I=0- N=0-S= 0 )- (IN =0 -IS=1 - NN=1- NS=0 - SC=-0-SC=0 ) - (CC= 1- 0-0 -0- 0-0- 0- 0-0-0-0- 0-0 -0) - ( 0- 0- 0 -0- 0- 0 -0- 0- 0- 0- 0- 0 -0 -0 -0 -0- 0). TBC.

Benelux.
B. 0-0-0 - ( 0- 0 - 0 -0) - ( 0- 2 - 0 - 0)
L. 0 -0.
N. 0 -0 -0.

Iberia.
P. 0 - 1.


Sp. 1 - 1.


I have impeccable credentials.







doktorb berske
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Nov 11, 2017, 12:49 PM

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Post #1139 of 1161 (3261 views)
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I can't believe that this thread got so heated! It's only admin, folks!



I count as a groundhop whatever I feel appropriate.

Reserves? Yes, why not?
Friendlies? No problem.
Bracketed ticks? Come on in, I say.

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How Scandinavian of me!"


borninchesham
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Nov 11, 2017, 4:35 PM

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Re: [kivo] FA's Proposed Structure of the NLS 2017/18 and 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Or we could, of course, make the Northern League the sole step one with entry to the FA Vase!


bmavfc
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Nov 11, 2017, 8:30 PM

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Post #1141 of 1161 (3087 views)
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If the NL choose to to be part of the pyramid and Blyth Spartans were relegated to that level but wanted to remain in the system what league would they end up in ? Be a lot of traveling whichever.


Tykeoldboy
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Post #1142 of 1161 (3038 views)
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Re: [kivo] FA's Proposed Structure of the NLS 2017/18 and 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
- Promoted the Northern League three divisions
- Rename the NPL as the Midland League
- Have eight Step 5 leagues based on the regions of England (barring London)

Step 1 - Conference National
Step 2 - Conference North, Conference South
Step 3 - Northern League Premier, Midland League Premier, Southern League Premier, Isthmian League Premier
Step 4 - Northern League (x2), Midland League (x2), Southern League (x2), Isthmian League (x2)
Step 5 - North-East League Premier, North-West Counties Premier, Yorkshire and Humber League Premier, West Midlands Regional League Premier, East Midlands Counties League Premier, South Western League Premier, South-Eastern League Premier, Eastern League Premier
Step 5 - North-East League (x2), North-West Counties (x2), Yorkshire and Humber League (x2), West Midlands Regional League (x2), East Midlands Counties League (x2), South Western League (x2), South Eastern League (x2), Eastern Counties League (x2)

I think we can all agree the above is perfect with absolutely no flaws whatsoever and should be implemented as soon as possible.


That proposal is way too sensible and will never make it off the table Laugh


boivie
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Nov 12, 2017, 1:43 PM

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Post #1143 of 1161 (2731 views)
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Re: [kivo] FA's Proposed Structure of the NLS 2017/18 and 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Do all Northern League teams have the necessary ground gradings for step 3 and 4?


genesimmons
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Nov 13, 2017, 3:28 AM

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Post #1144 of 1161 (2363 views)
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Do all Northern League teams have the necessary ground gradings for step 3 and 4?

No but the ground standards are better than alot at the same level and even better than some evostick grounds. Shildon who are in the mix are getting a new stand built and the likes of West Auckland's stadium ain't too bad. Bishop Auckland and Consett have step 3 graded grounds and some in the 2nd Division have decent stadiums like tow law and northallerton



You wanted the best, you got the best


Veteran
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Nov 15, 2017, 12:34 AM

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Post #1145 of 1161 (1565 views)
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It looks like we are going to have numerous teams shunted to leagues they don't want to be in, just to satisfy some organisational difficulties in the East Midlands.

Not exactly organisational difficulties. If you look at the Step 7 applicants for promotion last year, there were a significant number of on the face of it viable, applicants mainly from the Central Midlands League. Crying out for a new Step league round here !
Just to keep to their pretty grand design the FA chose instead to have new Step 6 leagues in the North West and Essex, where it is generally accepted it was not really needed and which will doubtless be filled with reserves, pseudo reserves, artificial ground shares etc.



Stop the B teams in the League proposal.


Veteran
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Nov 15, 2017, 8:57 AM

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Post #1146 of 1161 (1435 views)
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Too late to edit the above post but to clarify - we need a new Step 6 in the East/North Midlands and would seem to have enough eligible clubs to fill it and it is only the new Essex one I regard as unnecessary.



Stop the B teams in the League proposal.


royboy
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Nov 15, 2017, 11:19 AM

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Post #1147 of 1161 (1310 views)
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In Reply To
Too late to edit the above post but to clarify - we need a new Step 6 in the East/North Midlands and would seem to have enough eligible clubs to fill it and it is only the new Essex one I regard as unnecessary.


The last thing we need, for now anyway, is another league at Step 6 since there too many at that level already.

The solution is two more Step 5 leagues, covering Central & Eastern Midlands, which would remove the Step 7 blockage and , more importantly, move the southern boundary of the northern leagues further north with the reverse effect in the south.

In time the whole question of "southerly drift" would be addressed. Teams with only a G grade could remain at Step 5 under the same terms which, until now, applied to H graded clubs at step 6.

Whether this could be done before, after or at the same time as, the extra Step 4 league is a matter of judgement but I am sure it is the intention of the FA to get to the 1-2-4-8-16 set up.

The 16 could have one or two lower divisions thereby ,in effect, merging Steps 6 & 7.


PaulC
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Nov 19, 2017, 9:57 AM

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Post #1148 of 1161 (176 views)
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In Reply To

In Reply To

The solution is two more Step 5 leagues, covering Central & Eastern Midlands, which would remove the Step 7 blockage and , more importantly, move the southern boundary of the northern leagues further north with the reverse effect in the south.


One division for the whole of the NW (Carlisle to Whitchurch). 4 for the midlands. Doesn't sound right to me.


Richard Rundle
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Nov 19, 2017, 10:27 AM

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Post #1149 of 1161 (159 views)
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One division for the whole of the NW (Carlisle to Whitchurch). 4 for the midlands. Doesn't sound right to me.


And one for the whole of the South West, from Lands End to north of the M4.


windydcfc
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Nov 19, 2017, 10:42 AM

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Post #1150 of 1161 (144 views)
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In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

The solution is two more Step 5 leagues, covering Central & Eastern Midlands, which would remove the Step 7 blockage and , more importantly, move the southern boundary of the northern leagues further north with the reverse effect in the south.


One division for the whole of the NW (Carlisle to Whitchurch). 4 for the midlands. Doesn't sound right to me.



I think there's scope for a step 5 in both the northwest Midlands & northeast Midlands. But is there the will for real changes across step 5?

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